Israel bombs Gaza Strip, kills Hamas militant

[fourgivn1]

07/23/2002 - Updated 04:11 AM ET

"Israeli strike kills Hamas leader, at least 14 others

By Suhaib Salem, Reuters
Hamas leader Salah Shehadeh died after Israeli forces blew up a house on the Gaza Strip.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli air force F-16 blew up a house in the Gaza Strip early Tuesday, killing a leading Hamas militant and at least 14 other Palestinians, including several children. The missile strike came at a delicate time in Palestinian-Israeli relations with the sides trading ideas to relieve tensions in the West Bank. The attack appeared likely to derail the efforts as Hamas threatened revenge. The target of the attack, Salah Shehadeh, was the founder of the military wing of Hamas, known as Izzadine el-Qassam, the Israeli military said. He was killed along with his wife, their 14-year-old daughter, and a bodyguard, Hamas spokesman Ismail Haniyeh said.

"Hamas mourns the hero, the leader, Salah Shehadeh," Haniyeh said in a statement. "Anyone who dreams of so-called peace is mistaken. There is nothing called 'peace with Israel.'"

Shifa Hospital in Gaza City released a list of 11 others who were killed in addition to Shehadeh and his family and bodyguard. The hospital list included eight children, aged 2 months to 11 years, and three adults. More than 100 were injured, doctors said.

In its statement, the Israeli military said that Shehadeh was behind "hundreds of terror attacks in the last two years against Israeli soldiers and civilians."

Israeli foreign ministry official Gideon Meir called it a "strike against a known terrorist who is responsible for hundreds of attacks on Israeli civilians in recent years." He expressed regret for the loss of life.

Hamas threatened to strike back, vowing to "avenge the blood of the martyrs."

The Palestinian Authority accused the Israelis of trying to "sabotage the international efforts to pressure the Israeli government to withdraw troops ... and to get back to negotiations."

Jamal Halaby, a Palestinian police officer who lives nearby, said he saw the missile streaking across the sky, and then he heard a huge explosion. "I fell out of my bed and I found myself a minute later covered in dust and stones, and the sounds of my children screaming and crying."

The force of the blast reduced the building and three adjoining houses into rubble and blew out windows in buildings more than 500 yards away, scattering debris in all directions.

Firefighters searching frantically among the rubble for victims took a spotlight from a local camera crew to illuminate the area.

Outside the hospital, about 4,000 Palestinians chanted anti-Israel slogans and vowed revenge, some of them firing automatic rifles into the air.

The Hamas military wing has claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks against Israelis during nearly two years of fighting, including many suicide bomb attacks. Also, Hamas has been behind almost daily mortar attacks on Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip.

The air strike followed two Palestinian attacks last week that put an end to a monthlong respite in fatal Palestinian strikes against Israeli civilians, the longest such period since the current round of violence began in September 2000.

Nine Israelis were killed in a Palestinian ambush on a bus in the West Bank on July 16. The next day, two Palestinian suicide bombers blew themselves up in Tel Aviv, killing three bystanders.

Earlier Monday, the two sides appeared to be moving toward easing months of tensions. Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres had said that the army was prepared to withdraw from two West Bank towns, Bethlehem and Hebron, as long as they remained quiet and if the Palestinians assumed control of security.

A top member of Hamas said the group was considering stopping suicide attacks if Israel withdraws; and an Israeli official said the government was looking into resuming security cooperation with the Palestinians after it pulls out.

However, more hawkish elements of Israel's government expressed deep skepticism about the possibility of reaching any deal that would hold. They suggested that Israel would remain in the Palestinian towns for a considerable time — even until Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was no longer in power — and suffice for now with efforts to aid the population there.

Also Monday, Peres confirmed Palestinian claims of an Israeli offer to pull troops out of certain towns, as long as Palestinian security took control. He did not say when it might take place. Israel occupies seven of the eight major Palestinian towns in the West Bank.

"We really want to get out of there as soon as (Palestinian) security is deployed," Peres told Israel Radio. Asked if he was confirming reports that the army would withdraw from towns, Peres said, "Yes, there are towns that are more quiet than others; Hebron, Bethlehem and Jericho."

Palestinian officials have demanded Israel withdraw, saying they can't prevent attacks against Israelis as long as the army is in place, enforcing curfews and hunting down militants."


I'm not exactly condoning this bombing, although if it came down to brass tacks, I'd side with Israel, simply because to me they're the 'lesser of two evils.' But it cracked me up when the PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY accused ISRAEL of trying to sabotage the peace process (and also the effort to withdraw troops). I'm not saying it's right to bomb....but this goes for both sides, and if you keep getting the sh!t bombed out of your civilians it IS sort of hard to just sit there and say "Maybe eventually we'll have a TRUE peace. Israel and the Jews are the sworn enemy of the Arabs...somehow I do NOT think a true peace will ever come.

[Damn True]

Nobody is in the right here, but one thing jumps out at me.

Israel bombs terrorists. Palestine bombs kids on the way to school.

[ohio]

Originally posted by Damn True
Nobody is in the right here, but one thing jumps out at me.

Israel bombs terrorists. Palestine bombs kids on the way to school.

I would normally agree with you, but check the casualty list on this bombing. You're telling me there was no cleaner way to do it. I've never been in the military, but Israel has done plenty of assasinations... I'm sure they could have limited the casualties to, at best, Shehadeh and his bodyguard, and at worst, just him and his immediate family, if they'd had a little patience and more planning.

[Damn True]

Oh I'm sure it could have been done cleaner.

Which is why I said that nobody is in the right.

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Damn True
Oh I'm sure it could have been done cleaner.

Which is why I said that nobody is in the right.

Ditto. That is why I said if it came down to brass tacks I'd go with Israel because they are the 'lesser evil.' But I think what DT meant was that Israel didn't go in with the intention of bombing innocent civilians and children. Yes, I'm sure they realize it is possible, and even likely, that innocents will be hurt/killed, but they were interested in getting the senior Hamas guy, not kids.

[Sideways]

Originally posted by Damn True
Nobody is in the right here, but one thing jumps out at me.

Israel bombs terrorists. Palestine bombs kids on the way to school.

Bull@!@


You must have no true idea of the two sides ACTUAL casualty lists!

The news doesn't quite cover what is actually going on.
Do some research.

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Sideways
Bull@!@


You must have no true idea of the two sides ACTUAL casualty lists!

The news doesn't quite cover what is actually going on.
Do some research.

DT isn't ignorant, he just discounts the deaths of Palestinians. After all, terrorists are "animals," entirely different from Israeli soldiers and fighter pilots as in the above incident.

[Damn True]

Originally posted by Sideways


Bull@!@


You must have no true idea of the two sides ACTUAL casualty lists!

The news doesn't quite cover what is actually going on.
Do some research.

Oh and I suppose YOU know what is actually going on.
Get real Marshall. Propaganda flows both ways.

Yes, I do discount the death of people who will strap a bomb to the bottom of a school bus or worse yet, their own kid.

[Toshi]

World reactions to the original topic of this thread:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2146604.stm

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Sideways


You must have no true idea of the two sides ACTUAL casualty lists!

Then enlighten us.

Originally posted by Sideways
The news doesn't quite cover what is actually going on.
Do some research.

You're right. The news does not quite cover what is actually going on. This applies to the Palestinians as WELL as the Israelis. Propaganda flows both ways, as DT said, and truth applies to both sides as well. I'm guessing the number of attacks upon Israel by the Palestinians, and the resulting deaths, will be a TAD higher than the number of attacks upon the Palestinians by Israel, and THOSE resulting deaths.

[Toshi]

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/artic...?articleid=439

Key figure:



Who kills more civilians now? The "terrorists"?

[Damn True]

Oh well I'm sorry. The Palestinians are clearly innocent in all of this.

Three points.

a) What should Israel do in response to people coming onto soverign land and blowing stuff up?

b) While death is death, Palestine by commiting their acts of terror have brought this to some degree on themselves.

c) At least Israel is coming in with a uniformed military rather than skulking about in the shadows and intentionally hitting civilian targets.

I don't know what the solution to all of this is. But I do know that terrorism is not the answer. Warfare, if it must be entered into is supposed to take place between militaries. Blowing up school busses is not warfare. I support the right of any government to retaliate when it's soverign land and people are senselessly attacked.

[Sideways]

The solution is obvious.
Most Israeli's agree.
Return the settlers to the correct side of the 1965 boarders.
Give them proper housing and retribution for their suffering.

It's a shame how the occupants have been suckered into moving onto hostile ground.

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Toshi
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/artic...?articleid=439

Who kills more civilians now? The "terrorists"?

You've just given me 2 years of data. They've been bombing for longer than that. Even so (and even if, overall, Palestinian deaths are higher), read on.

I grant you that I should have researched that first before making a statement, because I know if I were retaliating, I'd probably try to give it back, and then some. I ALSO said "I'm guessing......" Before you start rolling your eyes, read the rest of the report.

The same report points out some interesting things. One, the vast majority of Israeli deaths were non-combatants, while the same can definitely not be said of the Palestinian deaths. Two, the report states that the Israeli casualties have been, by and large, random, while the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have been concentrated to teenaged boys and young men.

The same report also states this:

"Population segments like women or older people are not military targets; thus their higher prevalence among Israeli fatalities is an indication of the degree to which Palestinian terrorists have killed Israelis simply for the “crime” of being Israeli.

In contrast, Palestinian noncombatant fatalities have been overwhelmingly young (but over the age of 11) and male. This pattern of Palestinian deaths completely contradicts accusations that Israel has “indiscriminately targeted women and children.” It is clear that the vast majority of the Palestinians killed did not die as the result of random Israeli attacks on inhabited areas, or on mixed-sex crowds at roadblocks and the like. There appears to be only one reasonable explanation of this pattern: that Palestinian men and boys engaged in behavior that brought them into conflict with Israeli armed forces. Certainly, at least after the first few days of the conflict, these Palestinian men and boys (or, in the case of the younger ones, their parents and teachers) have to have been aware that they were placing themselves in harm’s way.

In fact, the highly specific pattern of Palestinian noncombatant fatalities suggests that many of these deaths have resulted from an active Palestinian indoctrination campaign glorifying “martyrdom” – effectively encouraging boys and young men to confront Israeli forces and risk death even when there was no real likelihood of causing material harm to Israelis. "

Which is pretty much what I have been saying all along. Well, I'm not sure if I actually SAID it *L* but it should have been understood - that the vast majority of Palestinian deaths have occurred because they chose to attack Israel first, and put themselves in a position to be attacked. Again, I'm not saying Israel is right. BOTH OF THEM are wrong for bombing. But I'm saying the Palestinians are more in the wrong.

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by Damn True

I don't know what the solution to all of this is. But I do know that terrorism is not the answer. Warfare, if it must be entered into is supposed to take place between militaries. Blowing up school busses is not warfare. I support the right of any government to retaliate when it's soverign land and people are senselessly attacked.

Ditto. :o: