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  1. #46
    Business is good, thanks for asking AngryMetalsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post
    I honestly don't understand why X-ians are so insecure in their beliefs that they're demanding that they be reinforced by government actions? If X-anity is so powerful that it can survive having it's believers eaten by lions, surely it can survive NOT being taught in public schools, or NOT having religious articles decorating government buildings?

    Do X-ians really feel that their religion is so weak that children might stray if they only get 16 hours of indoctrination per day instead of the full 24?
    Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people. But we all know how this worked out.

    Back in (Catholic prep) High School a priest held up a bible in religion class and proclaimed,"this nothing more than a collection of stories, written by man, intended as a guide for living". These universal truths are present in every major religion, even ones pre-dating Christianity. And that's all they are, a suggested way of getting along with your fellow man.

    Most followers of these principles, wether they are Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, etc. simply don't beat their chest about their religion while regurgitating dogma. They just simply are your neighbor, friend, relative.

  2. #47
    The voice of reason binary visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    in home ec, was there not instruction on various ways for food preparation?
    in civics, are not different cultures revealed?
    in health class, are not different methods for birth control taught, including abstinence?

    separate, but not equal
    This is a completely false analogy.

    There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

    Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.
    You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

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  3. #48
    Expert on blowing $tinkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryMetalsmith View Post
    Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people.
    this simply isn't true
    jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

    --not--

    'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'

    the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.

    would anyone here care to tolerate child molesters, or worse yet, those who put forth a thinly-veiled creationist agenda in public schools?
    our fears establish the limits of our life - erwin mcmanus

  4. #49
    Expert on blowing $tinkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binary visions View Post
    This is a completely false analogy.
    is not!
    Quote Originally Posted by binary visions View Post
    There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

    Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.
    creationism teaches 'God created', not 'God created the stove-piped system of double helixes exclusive to all others'

    while it may not bring comfort to the faithful that we all dropped from trees, that's hardly a reason to prevent teaching what is plainly observable in the micro, and then use that to make a strong case for the macro. the other side of that drachma, is of course, the species problem.

    it's all rather fascinating, but for me, not an article of faith
    our fears establish the limits of our life - erwin mcmanus

  5. #50
    bicycle in airplane hangar Pesqueeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binary visions View Post
    This is a completely false analogy.

    There is a difference between being taught two methods to the same end (e.g. preparing food differently, or choosing abstinence as a form of birth control), and being taught two conflicting ideas which directly undermine each other, only one is studied and presented with objective evidence, while the other is simply a story to be accepted on faith.

    Nobody teaches students that there are dragons in the core of the earth breathing fire that results in volcanic eruptions, because it completely undermines the scientific teachings about earth science. You cannot present them side-by-side in a science class, because one is science and one is not.
    Commie.
    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    Pesqueeb is a hippie trapped in jesus-land.
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  6. #51
    Business is good, thanks for asking AngryMetalsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    this simply isn't true
    jesus said, 'you are forgiven; go, & sin no more'

    --not--
    "Sin no more" also meant "Love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would have done unto you".

    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    'live a lifestyle however you wish, and please pay no attention to the teachings of My Father when they are inconvenient to your whims'
    Standard fundamentalist practice without any real knowledge of the "teachings".

    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    the 'tolerant' message is incorrectly packaged as "do not judge, lest ye be judged -- full stop", and is a silly message on its face, irrespective of religious identity.
    Is it ? Or is it so simple that it's beyond your grasp ?

    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    would anyone here care to tolerate child molesters, or worse yet, those who put forth a thinly-veiled creationist agenda in public schools?
    That's a crap analogy and you know it.

  7. #52
    Press Button, Receive Stupid jonKranked's Avatar
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    set your sarcasm meter to Level 4:butt hurt

  8. #53
    Unabomber dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryMetalsmith View Post
    Unfortunately the majority of them do not practice what they were taught or even read their book. Basically, if Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, they would be some seriously tolerant people. But we all know how this worked out.
    Lol, if I ever ran into a right-winger who *actually* followed the teachings of Christ, I think I'd have a heart attack. What was that Jesus said about taxes again? What was that parable about talents, and to whom much is given, much is expected? Or "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Or about taking the log out of your own eye before attempting to remove the spec from your neighbor's eye? Or the "what you have done for the least of these, you've done for me"?

    I've yet to see a single Republican politician justify cutting welfare/food stamps/health care/housing/and so on based on Matthew 25:40...

    If God does exist, there are going to be a lot of really, really, really surprised "Christians" who's names aren't in the book...
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  9. #54
    The voice of reason binary visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by $tinkle View Post
    creationism teaches 'God created', not 'God created the stove-piped system of double helixes exclusive to all others'
    I'm not sure I follow your point. It doesn't matter specifically what it teaches.

    Creationism is a purely faith-based description of something that is not possible to be objectively studied, measured or observed. Thus, it should not be taught in science class where the whole point is to learn that which has been studied, measured and observed.

    while it may not bring comfort to the faithful that we all dropped from trees, that's hardly a reason to prevent teaching what is plainly observable in the micro, and then use that to make a strong case for the macro.
    So... yes? I agree? I think?
    You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

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  10. #55
    bicycle in airplane hangar Pesqueeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonKranked View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stoney View Post
    Pesqueeb is a hippie trapped in jesus-land.
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  11. #56
    Turbo Monkey Beef Supreme's Avatar
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    She doesn't say much, she just pours my drinks. She doesn't care what the good lord thinks.

  12. #57
    filthy rascist JohnE's Avatar
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    600+ mentions of helping the poor in the Bible. 1 regarding homosexuality, which dint even come from Jesus. Yet the right, which claims to be the Godly side of the political spectrum, focuses on teh ghey, and not helping the poor...judge not, right?
    Someday, I hope to be the person my dogs think I am.

  13. #58
    Unabomber dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    600+ mentions of helping the poor in the Bible. 1 regarding homosexuality, which dint even come from Jesus. Yet the right, which claims to be the Godly side of the political spectrum, focuses on teh ghey, and not helping the poor...judge not, right?
    Also don't forget that the *only* specific reference against homosexuality only pertains to men, *not* lesbians...
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  14. #59
    Press Button, Receive Stupid jonKranked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post
    Also don't forget that the *only* specific reference against homosexuality only pertains to men, *not* lesbians...
    that's because women are property DUH
    set your sarcasm meter to Level 4:butt hurt

  15. #60
    The voice of reason binary visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonKranked View Post
    that's because women are property DUH
    Does this mean I can stack chairs on top of each other, too?

    I've always avoided that, for fear it was an abomination.
    You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

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