RM 29er forum Long Term Review: Carver Bikes Bumblebee

**MMcG** · 01-31-2008, 08:45 AM

As I mentioned before, we hope to feature a bunch of 29er and big wheeled bikes/frames/wheels/tires for testing and review for fellow Big Wheeled Monkeys.

Our first will be a review of Carver Bikes www.carverbikes.com new Bumblebee hardtail. The Bumblebee is a titanium framed hardtail featuring the new 650b wheel/and Pacenti Neomoto tire in back, paired up to a 29er in front. It makes for a much more balanced mix-wheeled hardtail set up than a 69er in my opinion and it makes for a very nice XC/trail bike hardtail package depending on how you configure the set up.

Davis Carver sent a Bumblebee Prototype down to CT from his home base in Maine earlier this winter and a couple of us down here in the Nutmeg State have had a few chances to get out and ride it. I've been able to ride it a couple of times here in CT, and QuoFan took it on a little road trip to Otis on Cape Cod for some good trail miles. So far initial impressions are positive for this Titanium Prototype. I'll be adding to this thread over time as we get more miles on the prototype frame. My goal is to get multiple input from a group of riders and then to review and examine them and then turn those comments into a final overall review of the bikes/frames/wheels/tires that we feature here on the Monkey.

In the meantime enjoy some photos. First couple courtesy of yours truly, the others courtesy of QuoFan, complete with Otis/Cape Cod post-ride sand.

We'll keep this stickied for a bit while we undergo longer term riding and testing of the bike.

Stay tuned for more details on the frame construction/geometry/tubing etc. etc. in the near future.

Cheers,

Mark

Spero · 01-31-2008, 09:30 AM

How are those Panaracers? I'm still trying to decide on what to stick on my Soul and I've always been a fan.

**MMcG** · 01-31-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spero

How are those Panaracers? I'm still trying to decide on what to stick on my Soul and I've always been a fan.

I really really like the Rampage as a front tire. It is a little slow rolling as a rear in my opinion. It has a nice profile - great knobs, and it grips super well.

Actually this combo of the Pacenti NeoMoto and the Rampage is a very good combo - they complement each other quite well in my opinion. Perhaps because they are both produced by Panaracer.

Spero · 01-31-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMcG

I really really like the Rampage as a front tire. It is a little slow rolling as a rear in my opinion. It has a nice profile - great knobs, and it grips super well.

Actually this combo of the Pacenti NeoMoto and the Rampage is a very good combo - they complement each other quite well in my opinion. Perhaps because they are both produced by Panaracer.

Good to hear. I'll have to try them out. That's a pretty slick little bike, btw. I like the idea of a 700/650.

Guitar Ted · 01-31-2008, 05:09 PM

Nice to see this happening here on the Monkey. I rode the full on 650B Carver at Interbike which also had the Ti frame. I liked it. Nice riding and handling bike.

The 650B rear/29"er front, whatever the performance, is waaaay better looking than the 69er concepts I've seen. Much more pleasing to the eye.

I'll be checking in to see what ya'all think of this concept.

**MMcG** · 02-01-2008, 07:20 AM

First ride impressions for me: First note - the stem was flipped to give a bit of negative rise on this ride. The bike accelerated very quickly, frame felt stiff at the bb, but had a nice springy titanium feel that you often hear about from Ti riders, the front end stayed super planted on climbs, but it was a little difficult to "loft" the front end in this set up. My thoughts post ride - this bike is fun, handles great and would make a mean cross country racing machine that would climb like no get out with a racer with the right set of legs.

Second ride: Flipped the stem over to give it a little rise. The bike transformed to more of a fast, well handling, hardtail trail bike. The front end was much easier to loft yet it still climbed just fine. It tracked through rough choppy stuff very well and both the Rampage and NeoMoto did a fine job of hooking up in less than stellar conditions (some snow on the trails etc.). Flipping the stem had a big impact on how the bike handled. I prefer it set up in this manner for my type of riding (ie non-racing).

More to follow as we get more time on it.

ferday · 02-01-2008, 08:01 AM

thanks for the mini-review!

i am watching this space with interest, i think this setup holds way more potential than 29/26. plus ti is cool, and carver makes nice bikes....

**MMcG** · 02-01-2008, 08:08 AM

Here's a summation from Quo Fan's first ride on the Bumblebee:

Highs

The bike peddled well, and held the corners tightly. The steering was a little slow because of the larger front wheel. At higher speeds, the bike settled into a rhythm that was predictable and comfortable.

The frame was vertically compliant, and laterally stiff. Just what you’d expect from a titanium frame. The geometry fit me well, and I felt well balanced whether climbing a technical slope, or bombing down swooping singletrack.

In technical areas, the larger front wheel aided in flowing over rocks, while the larger rear wheel aided in translating pedal strokes into easy forward movement.

Lows

Really the only thing I didn’t like was that I kept hitting my pedals on rocks. I hit my pedals more times than I have ever before. My impression is that if the bottom bracket was a little higher, I won’t hit the pedals as much.

Note - the bottom bracket has been raised in the new production frame design - and a customer could even order a custom bb height as well to suit their desires.

ByStickel · 02-03-2008, 04:52 PM

Mark,

What'd those chainstays measure out to?

**MMcG** · 02-03-2008, 05:01 PM

I think the prototypes are 17.5" or so - but I know that the production models feature shorter stays.

**MMcG** · 02-13-2008, 10:42 AM

I recently asked Davis about the changes made to the production Bumblebee frames (remember the one we have here at Ridemonkey is an early prototype frame) and here is what Davis had to say:

Hi Mark,

Yes, we're shortening the chainstays a little, and going with a 299 mm. BB height.

There is no charge for any custom modifications. It just takes a little longer, that's all.

Here's a list of all of the options...

Any combination of 24", 26" 650B, or 29" wheels
Custom top tube and seat tube length
Custom head tube length
Bottom Bracket height
Bent or straight top tube
4 tubing wall thicknesses available
Choice of cable routing
Fork length and offset
Head and Seat tube angles
Vertical, track, horizontal/disc or sliding titanium dropouts
68 mm threaded or Eccentric BB
Bottle, fender and rack mounts
Brushed or bead blasted finish
Disc mounts, V brake mounts, or both
BB30 bottom bracket now available

Some options are extra, like finishes and different dropouts, etc. but any dimensional changes are ther same price.

So in a nutshell - if you are willing to wait a little while - you can fully customize your Carver Ti frame to your liking with little or no change in price. Pretty cool.

Guitar Ted · 02-13-2008, 06:12 PM

That's outstanding, really. I don't know of any other titanium bike manufacturers doing this for as little as the Carver is.

Four tubing wall thicknesses, huh?

I don't know, if I had to have a titanium bike for offroad, this would be hard to pass up. I really thought the one I briefly rode was pretty dang nice.

Thanks for that info, Mark.

**MMcG** · 02-14-2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

That's outstanding, really. I don't know of any other titanium bike manufacturers doing this for as little as the Carver is.

Four tubing wall thicknesses, huh?

I don't know, if I had to have a titanium bike for offroad, this would be hard to pass up. I really thought the one I briefly rode was pretty dang nice.

Thanks for that info, Mark.

You are welcome - the thanks goes to Davis really - I just asked the questions and he provided the answers and information.

Cheers,

Mark

**MMcG** · 03-24-2008, 11:17 AM

This Saturday I was able to put the Carver Bumblebee through some pretty serious paces on a 4 plus hour ride at Case Mountain in Manchester, CT. Case has a little bit of everything and is a highly popular spot here in Central CT. I took the Carver out and here are my post ride impressions:

The bike handled the rocky and technical terrain at Case like a champ! Steering was nice and precise, the titanium frame was stiff where it needed to be, but provided a nice "soft" ride for a hardtail over the roots and rocks that make up the majority of Case Mountain Terrain. I had only a few minor pedal strikes so that wasn't a big issue for me at all (and the production frame features a slightly higher bb height anyway).

The combination of a 650b in back and a 29er in front was nice. I prefer this combo to a 69er combo as it seems to more closely balance out the front and rear end of the bike. Accelleration was very good with the 650b in back. I was riding with the Pacenti Neomoto in back and a Rampage in front - an excellent combination. The Pacenty handled our rough terrain in style and the Rampage provided great traction and cushion in front.

The bike also felt great in the little bit of air that I got yesterday. It felt very well mannered and exceptionally balanced all day long out on the trails.

This prototype has fairly long chainstays compared to the production version - so I can only assum a production bumblebee would handle the tight twisty stuff that much better and also allow the rider to really rock the short steep uphill trail sections that we have here in Central CT/New England.

We rode for a little over 4 hours and the bike was ready for more - the rider however, was totally spent!

Here are a few pics of the Bumblebee in action courtesy of I Are Baboon. Thanks Babs!

JRA:

Nice fun roller here:

A little air here:

The bike handled the little drop just fine, the rider however steered her right into a rock on his first attpempt! doh!

The Do-over was much smoother and completely successful:

The Bumblebee handled technical "cross-stuntry" stuff extremely well, here's a little up and off a big rock mid-ride - fun!

The Bumblebee navigating the McKill Zone - a spot I biffed on big time a few years ago on a 5" trail bike and aptly named for said digger:

I have to say, I'm impressed with the ride quality of this bike. A very solid value for a titanium hardtail frame in my opinion. I hope to get a few more test pilots out on it now that we have seen that trails are in very good shape for this time of year here in CT.

Cheers,

Mark

S. cerevisiae · 03-24-2008, 06:34 PM

So let me get this straight...you folks can really tell a difference in acceleration between a true 29er and some small rear wheeled hybrid? 'Cause I gotta tell ya I don't see a difference between my Monocog 9er and a small wheel SS. Mebbe it's different with gearies?

Just stand and mash harder, maggot.