Saint 820 brakes inconsistent bite point - any fixes or solutions yet?

[rscecil007]

I know this is somewhat of a known issue (unfortunately found out after I bought my two sets).

Done plenty of reading and researching on this, but nothing definite as far as a cause or fix. Anyone heard anything?

[Freeridin']

Not a fix but can be warrantied...not sure if the replacements are any different.

[Sandwich]

Make sure you have a good bleed. My 810s were inconsistent until I had a really good bleed on them using CHF 7.1. Then they were reliable for a year after. Just make sure to tap tap aroo the lever to get any hidden bubbles out.

[kickstand]

Ask Aaron Gwin's mechanic.

[kidwoo]

Udi had a pretty good explanation here that made sense to me. It has more to do with the quad piston caliper than anything else. Makes sense because every pair of saint 4 pots I've had do that. Not a single pair of shimano 2 pots have ever done that to me.

[rscecil007]

Yeah, def have a good bleed on them with all the tricks, tapping the line, push fluid up from caliper, gravity bleed it, pump fluid down from the lever, rotate lever 30 degrees up, 30 degrees down, etc.

Kidwoo, interesting all your 4 pots have done this. I've heard there are no issues with the XTR trail brakes which have the same lever, but just 2 pistons. So that would backup what you and Udi are saying. But do you or Udi know what specifically it is about the 4 pots that make them have this inconsistent bite point?

Kinda unnerving thinking you are going to lightly feather your brakes and instead you lock them up, or worst case vice versa.

Would the XTR trails work on a full blown DH bike, with 203 rotors? Obviously I think they'd be fine with 180 rotors on my trail bike.

[boylagz]

^ I have 785 XT trail brakes and they are powerful. Ive used Avids before from Juicy 7 to Codes, and these are the best brakes Ive used so far. Ive never felt underpowered, and they modulate nice. Im loving the shorter levers vs. the Avid blades.

Get em xtr's.

Add: Brakes mounted to a V10c.

[0110-M-P]

Even the very old shimano 4-pot XT's had this problem (and were an absolute PITA to bleed completely). You couldn't pay me enough money to buy another set of shimano 4-pot brakes again.

[Carraig042]

I too had similar issues with my Shimano 810's. I sold them and got Hope brakes and never looked back. Maybe you could get them warrantied and then sell the set they send you for something else?

-Brett

[kidwoo]

Kidwoo, interesting all your 4 pots have done this. I've heard there are no issues with the XTR trail brakes which have the same lever, but just 2 pistons. So that would backup what you and Udi are saying. But do you or Udi know what specifically it is about the 4 pots that make them have this inconsistent bite point?

Kinda unnerving thinking you are going to lightly feather your brakes and instead you lock them up, or worst case vice versa.

Would the XTR trails work on a full blown DH bike, with 203 rotors? Obviously I think they'd be fine with 180 rotors on my trail bike.

If I remember correctly Udi was saying something along the lines of the pistons not being able to uniformly contract between all 4 of them. I think it's just that it's a lot easier to either get air trapped in the big caliper, or in a case where you have one piston that moves a lot more freely than even one other one, that loose one is going to move a bunch in reference to the others. I know the first gen of 4 pot saints I had took forever to settle out and start working consistently. Bleeding over and over wouldn't do it but one day, they just started working consistently. Broken in?

All I know is that where I live and with what I weigh, I don't need big fatass calipers to disperse heat. Until shimano gets that worked out, I'll be happily buying 2 pots for all my bikes. I do have that same pair of broken in calipers on my dh bike right now with some zee levers. They work great. But it took almost a full season two years ago to get them to that point.

[daisycutter]

My Saint 810s have ben great since 2010. I have bled them once a year. I was tempted to upgrade but will now keep what i have. Thanks for putting the word out.

[Freeridin']

The inconsistencies on the 820s do not compare to the 810s or current xt/xtr. At random, the lever will turn to a hair pin trigger, one or two pulls later it returns to normal. I've never experienced anything similar with my 810s (3 sets) or my current xts.

[SylentK]

This is interesting on the bleeding technique. Isn't shimano's method to use the funel and do gravity style? Is using Avid's syringes and technique the way to go?

[rscecil007]

This is interesting on the bleeding technique. Isn't shimano's method to use the funel and do gravity style? Is using Avid's syringes and technique the way to go?

Well Shimano's method per their tec doc website is to:
-push fluid up slowly from the caliper with the syringe, and push the fluid into the funnel screwed into the lever
-gravity bleed it
-tap the caliper/line gently with a screwdriver
-pull the lever slightly and open the bleed nipple and close it very quickly a few times
-set the lever down 30 degrees and squeeze the lever a few times
-lastly repeat with the lever up 30 degrees

I believe that is all their steps, but might be slightly out of order. I always liked the Hope method though of pushing fluid down from the master cylinder, this is stupidly easy with the Shimano funnel.

[rscecil007]

Kidwoo and others, thanks for the replies. Sucky to hear, but glad I'm not the only one that's experienced this. Too bad I paid a ton for two sets of brakes, but luckily Shimano is really good to deal with, so maybe I can get some XTR's Trails out of it or something. But I do worry about being 215 or so ready to ride on XTR's...

And Kidwoo what you said also makes perfect sense why the newer set of XT's (785's or whatever) on my hardtail don't exhibit this behavior...