Sugar this weekend?

[milohead]

I said it last year and I'll say it again, Sugar is the best single DH trail in the south (Windrock still rules all) so Brad must be doing something right (with help from others). Keep it up Brad!

[profro]

I hate the word "sustainable". IMBA is ruining mountain biking.

I wish people would recognize there is a difference between mountain biking and dirt road biking.

[bizutch]

Brad, I suggest the Block/Hide feature. I had to block him a while back to keep my cool. When you read this thread in that manner with all his posts hidden, it's much funnier.

I'll be the first to say I did my best when I picked out the route through the woods up top and did the new entrance to Donovans. It was all to get the trail off the slope and into the woods. Even the little turtle rock to the left which some love/hate up top was so we had to slow down rather than carve across the slope onto the rock bald.

But all the ideas we had those few weekends were cutting stuff in and never getting to finish what we started. It all got shut down by management temporarily for fear of people getting hurt.

Once I got Donovan on the horn to get him to talk to Kim, he gave her confidence it could be ridden. But we were never had time to finish it before Nationals. Heck, alot of it is still not what I had intended in mind for the top. The original Nationals course, including the original drop will continue to run as long as you guys keep "tuning up" the trail.

But I learned from that experience that even though I thought we were shut down and all our hard work wasted, it still worked out in the end. Management at Sugar is conservative and slow moving, but they STILL allow us up there. STILL! That is awesome!

Be patient guys and remember that just because a few runs were a bummer, long term you still get your turns there free of charge.

[clealan]

I hate the word "sustainable". IMBA is ruining mountain biking.

I wish people would recognize there is a difference between mountain biking and dirt road biking.

The Appalachian mountains were once as high as the Alps and Rockies, but they were not built to the proper sustainability standards so......

[Sugar_brad]

Hey guys just wanted to clear a few things up. Not trying to start another e-argument, Hunter- my invitation for you to sit down and handle your issues with me like adults is still open and always will be, I'll even buy you a beer. I also ended up with an extra Saint lockring tool that you can have if you are still needing one. I remember you were having a hard time finding one.Profro- I will do my best not to use "sustainability" but no promises.

Sugar is not an official trail, it's kept running by locals, not a "trail crew".

Incorrect-5 total on trail crew, 4 are paid.

What you are doing looks terrible; you are building to your riding level and it does not look sustainable

Incorrect,check pics here http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f66...1849/index287/ and my training wheels won't fit through the dungeon entry so no, I am not building to my "level".

your "reroute" into lizards will not last and is way to slow speed for where it i

Incorrect-plenty of speed for uphill and multiple drainage precautions.I managed to unbolt my training wheels for a test run and I think it will run just as fast as before.

Sugar is not an official trail, it's kept running by locals

Incorrect-Sugar trails are advertised in local magazines and on the website. People pay to ride and hike them and there is a designated timeline on when they are in operation. Don't really know what constitutes "official" but it seems so to me and people who pay to ride Sugar that it is. I don't think people would pay to ride/hike it otherwise.

We have put in a ton of work to keep the trail running and when we do our work we finish it up so it is safe before we leave, if we were to have to leave a section unfinished we would make it obvious to riders so that nobody would get hurt.

Yes you have put in a lot of work. However, any work done without permission or riding when the trails are closed constitutes trespassing. Management, security, and Sugar Police are cracking down on it this year so be forewarned. As far as you guys riding and not knowing trail work was being done-There is a large sign at the entrance to Sugar that says "closed for season" that you pass every time you shuttle. I just got clearance to post closed signs at the top and especially under the lift to prevent injuries.

You should try consulting the huge resource of skilled trail builders

A little about my background first:I worked at Grandfather Mountain as a Ranger for 5 years before it was sold to the state. My primary responsibility was trail maintenance and safety. We worked with State Rangers from Elk Knob, South mountain State Park, as well as Rangers from the parkway and federal agencies. We also did a lot of cooperative work with Outward Bound. I have a federal chainsaw permit as well. I also have 11 years experience as a landscaper for Brock and Sons Landscaping and Mcmanus Farms Inc. I have limited machine operation experience and that is where Erich, Andrew and the rest of the crew excel. Sorry for so many words but Sugar's integrity as a great place to ride is very important to me. I have worked there since I was 17 years old. I'm 29 now and plan to work there for many years to come. Hope to see everyone out there or on the trails somewhere.-Brad

[Mulestar]

I hate the word "sustainable". IMBA is ruining mountain biking.

I wish people would recognize there is a difference between mountain biking and dirt road biking.

Agree with you to a point but FYI the section of sugar under the lift was pretty much garbage (a ditch that was not fun to ride) after just a few years. It was totally unsustainable and would be handlebar deep after a few more years of high country downpours. That is not practical for the landowner OR the riders that enjoy the trail. Fixing stuff like that is not ruining mountain biking. Everyone likes to sh1t a brick when someone fixes a trail but go see how much trails like Yancey's Ridge or even upper Black Mountain and Avery Creek have degraded in just the past few years to realize why sustainability concerns are important. A good builder can make drainage work and still keep the trail technical. Rant over.

Other than that, I'm staying far, far away from this discussion.

[DHracer1067]

Not that I frequent sugar frequently, but last year i spent a weekend riding the lift at sugar and was surprised how eroded it was compared to when it was first prepared fir the nationals like 2-3 years before. most everything seemeed to be allright but the section under the lift was sooo eroded compared to the last time i was there. any work on that part can do nothing but fix what was going on before. I think work was needed and anyone bitching about it is just looking for something to bitch about.. not that anyone of you complainers paid the people working on the trails.

[profro]

A good builder can make drainage work and still keep the trail technical.

Exactly. I've seen your work and you and a few others are the exception. The IMBA trails I have seen, my local area included, are just glorified dirt paths. Last year when I rode Black Mtn. for the first time I nearly had premature ejaculation when I saw how rough and gnarly it was. Hell, there were roots 6" out of the ground. To me, thats mountain biking. When I saw the pictures of the new entrance to Lizard's Lane, I didn't get the same reaction. I guess its the state of mtn biking. Everyone seems to love smooth, bermed trails (i.e. "flow" trails). BTW I need to go ride Black Mtn. again.

[bizutch]

Exactly. I've seen your work and you and a few others are the exception. The IMBA trails I have seen, my local area included, are just glorified dirt paths. Last year when I rode Black Mtn. for the first time I nearly had premature ejaculation when I saw how rough and gnarly it was. Hell, there were roots 6" out of the ground. To me, thats mountain biking. When I saw the pictures of the new entrance to Lizard's Lane, I didn't get the same reaction. I guess its the state of mtn biking. Everyone seems to love smooth, bermed trails (i.e. "flow" trails). BTW I need to go ride Black Mtn. again.

Please tell me you finished that leg with a climb up to and down the long loop of Sycamore Cove. It's the icing on the Black Mountain cake. And did you did you do Daniel Ridge?

[profro]

No I was on a short time allowance and I only got the last bit of Black Mtn. I have ridden Daniel's Ridge from several angles. Farlow to Daniels is on my short list.

[Sugar_brad]

Hey Profro I will post pics up when I get a section or two armored up. It looks "naked" right now, the rock work should make it look and feel less like a bmx track.

[motobutane]

Exactly. I've seen your work and you and a few others are the exception. The IMBA trails I have seen, my local area included, are just glorified dirt paths. Last year when I rode Black Mtn. for the first time I nearly had premature ejaculation when I saw how rough and gnarly it was. Hell, there were roots 6" out of the ground. To me, thats mountain biking. When I saw the pictures of the new entrance to Lizard's Lane, I didn't get the same reaction. I guess its the state of mtn biking. Everyone seems to love smooth, bermed trails (i.e. "flow" trails). BTW I need to go ride Black Mtn. again.

Black mountain was one of the "Shovel ready" trails and got reworked.