same rider on a difrent bike? faster?

[saruti]

don’t you wonder sometime, if the same rider on another bike would be faster ?
I look at Sam hill here, with a bike that probably pedals better and have a rearward axle path,

http://dirt.mpora.com/news/the-lost-...world-cup.html

and today, on a different bike... he just can’t make it to the top of the podium.
when it’s a matter of half a second between first and second place, wouldn’t the bike matter?

what do you think?

[Mo(n)arch]

In Sam's case it has maybe more to do with 2 years of injuries.
First year on the Demo was his second overall title, do you remember?

And to come back and pull of fifth in the overall standings isn't that shady, right?

Otherwise I definitely think that some frames are better for certain riders than others. Combined with an ideal setup for the bike (suspension, brakes, tires etc.) times would definitely change.

[Udi]

Honestly, I think everyone else just got better at riding, along with Sam having a few setbacks. I've wondered the same thing as you though, and would love to see how he performed on a different bike.

You should ask tabletop84 though, he's an expert on this topic.

[Mo(n)arch]

You should ask tabletop84 though, he's an expert on this topic

Lol.
Sam should ride a YT tues.

[tabletop84]

If DW would work his magic Sam would smoke Gwin for sure.

[rav400]

I understand training and team budget/resources probably had a lot to do with it, but what about when Aaron Gwin went from Yeti to Trek? His last year on Yeti, I think he made the podium once and his first year on Trek he was pretty dominate. And I'm not exactly a Trek fan.

[sethimus]

another thread on this topic?

[Capricorn]

maybe's not the frame: more than likely a combo of how fast his mind allows him to go after taking some pretty darn big stacks in the past 2 years. Coming back to 5th overall is nothing to sneeze at. Just has to find his mojo in his head.

and then there's the question of: does the frame around his neck actually make him slower? Remember how Gwin fumbled that question when asked why he stopped riding with it?

and seems Gee's given up on riding with the neck frame too..

ahem.. just tossing 2c into the tinfoil hat..

[Straya]

another thread on this topic?

Another vortex opens

[General Lee]

I understand training and team budget/resources probably had a lot to do with it, but what about when Aaron Gwin went from Yeti to Trek? His last year on Yeti, I think he made the podium once and his first year on Trek he was pretty dominate. And I'm not exactly a Trek fan.

Call me crazy, but he just got a bit better at racing as he had seemed to do every year previous. All this talk about bikes making a difference, yet look at the guys consistently on top for the past several years. They've switched bikes, designs, tires, and suspension time and again and the results have stayed predictably the same.

It's be one thing to be on a sh*t bike with sh*t components, but those are really really hard to find in 2012. Most box-stock bikes from the top manufacturers could be ridden to the top of the podium after a quick trip through the suspension department. I think some of you like to split hairs for the sake of it.

[Mo(n)arch]

I understand training and team budget/resources probably had a lot to do with it, but what about when Aaron Gwin went from Yeti to Trek? His last year on Yeti, I think he made the podium once and his first year on Trek he was pretty dominate. And I'm not exactly a Trek fan.

ABP dude, because it's stolen from teh DW eagle.

[kickstand]

I think some of you like to split hairs for the sake of it.

Isn't that what a discussion forum is for? Split hairs, aren't those the split second differences that each rider is winning and or placing higher than the next guy by?

I think we all know certain frames just feel better under us, and make us feel faster/slower. I am CERTAIN that comes into play for the pros, compared to us they are just flat out fast, but compared to each other any advantage they can get helps.

Do I think that frame design changes who wins the world cup? No, do I think it changes the way some of the guys place from track to track? possibly.

[norbar]

In Sam's case it has maybe more to do with 2 years of injuries.
First year on the Demo was his second overall title, do you remember?

And to come back and pull of fifth in the overall standings isn't that shady, right?

Otherwise I definitely think that some frames are better for certain riders than others. Combined with an ideal setup for the bike (suspension, brakes, tires etc.) times would definitely change.

I remember Matti complaining about the Evil and saying he is happy to be back on the m9. Though I'm not sure if getting bucked really slows you down

As for Gwin - TWR offers him a much higher lever of support not to mention I thought it was well known that he had killer off season training before he started getting results.

[ManChild]

I think changing bikes doesn't really help a rider but then you look at Gwin and it has a minimal affect on him.
I do think that changing bike has a greater effect at the top end for flat pedal riders. From a psychological point of view, "feel" of the bike is way more important when riding with flats. With clips the bike is just strapped to you so I don't feel its as important once it works really well. We are talking crazy world cup speeds here where riders feet are actually bouncing off the pedals.

I also think the physical side has changed.More riders are actually training with weights and tuning their anerobic power. This is true especially in Gwins case. In the off season he works pretty hard. I think some other riders maybe take it a bit easier and gain a little weight.
I think this season Hill has got his injuries behind him and he can work on his fitness in the offseason.

Hill is known for not doing a lot of practice runs. eg sometimes just a few. It saves his body from fatigue, but its a disadvantage as he cannot fully know the track as well as the guy who put 9 runs in if he only did 3 himself. Physical conditioning here would help Hill be stronger and get in more practice rather than holding back.
I said it here before but it would be interesting to see the guy in clips and more strength power in his upper torso. I dont think he will ever try clips but I think upper body strength would really help him this those few etra seconds.
I guess now for riders to ride at their full potential small little changes make a big difference.
I think with a guy like Sam, who has in my opinion the most natural fast riding style he just has to get a few things right and he will be on the top steps again.

[atrokz]

I highly doubt clips vs flats comes into play with regards to the subtle nuances a pro prefers. All these guys are fighting for tenths, and from what I’ve learned most if not all are sticklers when it comes to bike set up. Just because a bike is ‘strapped’ on (which it is not) doesn’t mean every little detail isn’t as important. As someone who isn’t pro but switches from flats to clips, I’ll tell you set up is every bit as important to an ‘expert’ level racer, so you better believe it matters to a pro.

You are definately right with regards to training. I've always believed DH racing has similarites to fighting with regards to the training required to do well. Both are short durrations (4-5 minutes non stop, a few times over), require total body cordination and strength. I think the pros get this, and when you see the way they are starting to train it validates this belief. These guys are becoming elite level athletes.