Going Tubeless - Questions

**djjohnr** · 12-17-2012, 07:18 AM

I'm finally going to give tubeless a try over the next few months for three reasons - 1) I want to try some enduro races next season, so I think I should get used to dealing with the system I'll have to race with 2) I'd like to see if I could loose a little rotating weight 3) check out the traction increase I keep hearing about (somewhat dubious of this - I'm able to get away with fairly low pressures already using 190 gram tubes). The things that have kept me back in the past have been the PITA of dealing with sealant as I like to change my tires often (I swap between four sets of tires pretty regularly, but I'm going to try and get it down to two), and the fear of blowing a front tire off in a hard corner/off a drop.

So, I have a set of Flows and I plan on running tubeless ready/UST tires to prevent corners from removing my tire for me. But I still have a couple of questions:

- Is burping 100% avoidable with proper setup? Riding style on this bike includes drops up to head high and small jumps. I'm pretty smooth in the rough, but I have a track record of overshooting jumps sometimes (although jumping isn' my thing, so it won't be hitting anything that big normally, maybe 8 foot gaps at most unless I'm on my DH bike).

- Running UST/tubeless tires on Stans: rim strip or just tape? Some searches have shown tape alone is what a lot of guys run, but I can't tell if they're riding XC or enduro/FR. Same question with dual ply tires as well (although I'd like to try the UST/tubeless variety first for weight reasons). To start with I'm planning on using some Conti Baron UST 2.3s.

**kidwoo** · 12-17-2012, 09:35 AM

I haven't burped a tire on my trail bike in eons. Just don't listen to the people that tell you run less pressure with tubeless. That's honestly where most of the burping comes from. Get a good tire/rim interface and run some pressure. You get more deformation without a tube for bonus structural support so you can still get better traction even with higher pressures.

I've been using maxxis EXO or dh casing tires tubeless on my trail bike. The dh goes on the rear only because I kept popping holes in the EXOs on the back......burping wasn't a problem though. Just plan accordingly with terrain. Most people have no problems with the EXO-ish 800g tire range from the various companies.

I gave up on trying to run tubeless on my dh bike years ago. I just couldn't keep the tires in one piece.

But I'd be surprised if you don't feel the reduced rolling resistance with tubeless. You really do notice it.

**djjohnr** · 12-17-2012, 10:08 AM

Thanks woo. What are you running for rims (I remember you being a mavic guy)? Are you using rim strips for the EXOs?

**kidwoo** · 12-17-2012, 10:17 AM

I've got some crossmax SX wheels.........so technically a rim that mavic does not make

Was running some 819s before that. But yeah......pretty religious about mavic's UST rims. No tape or strips needed with those.

**louevilcyclist** · 12-17-2012, 12:19 PM

I have a set of Stans Flow EX rims with UST Minions that are on my DH bike and I just run the yellow tape and some stans sealant with no problems. I agree with Kidwoo, those that say go tubeless and then run a crazy low tire pressure is generally the ones that are burping or rolling a tire off the rim. I run 28-30 in mine with no issues and weigh 190lb w/ gear. Ive been running similar setups on my trail bikes for years w/ stans rim and UST tire and no issues. I'll never go back.

**ScarredOne** · 12-17-2012, 09:21 PM

First off, I have yet to see any fast riders ever run their tires in the lower 20psi range. I have run 30psi front/35 rear on my dh bike everywhere from Bootleg Cyn to Big Bear to B.C. with no problems. Stans ZTR Flow (Non-EX) front wheel with stock yellow tape and Minion Exo. On the rear I'm on a Mavic 819 with Minion DHF 2.5 2 ply. Every tire I've ever beaded up on an 819 has seated effortlessly and I have yet to blow a tire off in any corner. Sometimes I get a little weepage at the bead or a couple small burps, but not enough to matter.

I've never used a UST tire tubeless, conventional Maxxis works just fine. I do prefer 2 ply tires (even if its a 2 ply 2.35 Minion) on the rear of my bikes though, I've only been able to run a 2.5 Minion Exo on rocky trails (as a rear tire) a couple times without tearing a hole in the carcass.

I probably would not be riding bikes today if it wasn't for tubeless, ghetto or UST. Do it and don't look back.

**djjohnr** · 12-18-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ScarredOne

First off, I have yet to see any fast riders ever run their tires in the lower 20psi range. I have run 30psi front/35 rear on my dh bike everywhere from Bootleg Cyn to Big Bear to B.C. with no problems.

Yeah, my idea of "fairly low pressure" is between 28/30 and 33/35 (f/r) for 2.5 DHF EXOs depending on terrain. 3lbs less (25/27 - 30/32) on dual ply 2.5 DHFs. If anything I'd think I'd need to up the min pressure a little to prevent sidewall tears.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

**atrokz** · 12-18-2012, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by ScarredOne

I probably would not be riding bikes today if it wasn't for tubeless, ghetto or UST. Do it and don't look back.

And why's that?

**Pslide** · 12-18-2012, 10:08 AM

I wasn't very happy running tubeless on the front wheel of my trail bike. I felt I was running more pressure than I normally would be with a tube in order to avoid strange tire deformation in off cambers and corners. I also feel that running tubeless makes your tires feel a little more "pingy" or under-damped.

So I decided to run a lightweight tube up front so I can run the pressure I like and I get the tire behaviour I like. I rarely pinch on the front (not too rocky and fast here), so it works for me. And I run tubeless on the back where I like to run higher pressures anyway for extra support, faster rolling, etc.

Just an idea.

**atrokz** · 12-18-2012, 10:28 AM

^ opposite of how some Pros are running tubeless on their DH bikes. Burping still seems to be a major problem with the rear.

That said, we're not pro, but I have managed to rip maxxis tires off 729's before, so it's not impossible. I run tubeless on my cyclocross bike, and will on my trail bike, but never on my DH bike untill they sort out burping better than it is now.

**kazlx** · 12-18-2012, 10:49 AM

God I hate tubes. I still need to convert my DH bike to tubeless. It still has a tube setup from when I bought it. I am ~220lbs and have never had a problem riding non-ust minions on mavic wheels.

**Pslide** · 12-18-2012, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by atrokz

^ opposite of how some Pros are running tubeless on their DH bikes.

Yeah, I achieve no where near the cornering forces on my little trail bike that a pro does on their DH bike. They absolutely torture their rear tires.

**atrokz** · 12-18-2012, 11:57 AM

Nico loves his tubeless setup too!

And yea, they do torture their tyres. But, having said that since I like lower pressures and have ripped off a tire before, I'll keep running tubes untill we're at car/moto levels of reliability for these systems.