Ashcroft: 5000 "suspected terrorists" arrested since 9/11, 0 convicted

[Toshi]

http://www.alternet.org/rights/19948/

With the latest Detroit convictions overturned, Ashcroft has not convicted a single person of terrorism since 9/11.

...

The Detroit case was extremely weak from the outset. The government could never specify exactly what terrorist activity was allegedly being planned and never offered any evidence linking the defendants to al Qaeda. Its case consisted almost entirely of a pair of sketches and a videotape, described by an FBI agent as "casing materials" for a terrorist plot, and the testimony of a witness of highly dubious reliability seeking a generous plea deal. It now turns out that the prosecution failed to disclose to the defense evidence that other government experts did not consider the sketches and videotape to be terrorist casing materials at all and that the government's key witness had admitted to lying.

Until that reversal, the Detroit case had marked the only terrorist conviction obtained from the Justice Department's detention of more than 5,000 foreign nationals in anti-terrorism sweeps since 9/11. So Ashcroft's record is 0 for 5,000. When the attorney general was locking these men up in the immediate wake of the attacks, he held almost daily press conferences to announce how many "suspected terrorists" had been detained. No press conference has been forthcoming to announce that exactly none of them have turned out to be actual terrorists.

[jdcamb]

If you only knew how much money was/is spent on what they call "fruitless" prosecutions you would like I be sick. They know the outcome and just want to send messages and intimidate the "terrorists" out there. You should see all the money they spend watching folks on the "watchlists". Most of the folks on these "watchlist" have done nothing wrong other then donating money to a charity that the DOJ considers to support terror. Most of the folks on the watchlists are of middle eastern extraction. Many if not most of them are US citizens. Many US Muslims have families in the middle east who live in impovrished conditions and send money back home as a tradition......jdcamb

[Toshi]

If you only knew how much money was/is spent on what they call "fruitless" prosecutions you would like I be sick. They know the outcome and just want to send messages and intimidate the "terrorists" out there. You should see all the money they spend watching folks on the "watchlists". Most of the folks on these "watchlist" have done nothing wrong other then donating money to a charity that the DOJ considers to support terror. Most of the folks on the watchlists are of middle eastern extraction. Many if not most of them are US citizens. Many US Muslims have families in the middle east who live in impovrished conditions and send money back home as a tradition......jdcamb
but.. but.. aren't i unpatriotic if i don't unquestioningly support everything the government does? :confused: :oink:

[Westy]

but.. but.. aren't i unpatriotic if i don't unquestioningly support everything the government does? :confused: :oink:

If you even ask the question you must hate America.

[BurlyShirley]

If you only knew how much money was/is spent on what they call "fruitless" prosecutions you would like I be sick. They know the outcome and just want to send messages and intimidate the "terrorists" out there. You should see all the money they spend watching folks on the "watchlists". Most of the folks on these "watchlist" have done nothing wrong other then donating money to a charity that the DOJ considers to support terror. Most of the folks on the watchlists are of middle eastern extraction. Many if not most of them are US citizens. Many US Muslims have families in the middle east who live in impovrished conditions and send money back home as a tradition......jdcamb


...and some fly planes into world trade center towers.

[Toshi]

...and some fly planes into world trade center towers.
0 convictions makes one wonder if ashcroft has averted anything.

[Tenchiro]

0 convictions makes one wonder if ashcroft has averted anything.

You mean besides the civil rights of apparantly innocent people?

[jdcamb]

...and some fly planes into world trade center towers.

Last I looked none of them were US citizens. The Watchlist consists almost entirely of either naturaulized US citizens or US citizens. The Customs, the FBI, and DOHS have their own seperate watchlists. Nice try though.....jdcamb

[Westy]

Maybe they've got the right 5000, because while there have been 0 convictions there have also been 0 attacks on US soil.

.....................Tiger Repeling Rock anyone?

[BurlyShirley]

Last I looked none of them were US citizens. The Watchlist consists almost entirely of either naturaulized US citizens or US citizens. The Customs, the FBI, and DOHS have their own seperate watchlists. Nice try though.....jdcamb


So let me get this straight. Even if I accept your "most" at nothing more than a glance. Youre saying that once a person becomes a citizen we should just quit paying them any attention?

[Westy]

You mean 'repelling?'

I'm getting sick of every thread turning into an English class.

:stupid:

[Tenchiro]

Maybe they've got the right 5000, because while there have been 0 convictions there have also been 0 attacks on US soil.

There have also been 0 missions to Mars, maybe we arrested 5000 astronauts...

[Tenchiro]

Not so... lil' robots have been to Mars in the last couple years.

Well yeah, because we arrested all the astronauts.

[jdcamb]

So let me get this straight. Even if I accept your "most" at nothing more than a glance. Youre saying that once a person becomes a citizen we should just quit paying them any attention?

Yes. As citizens of the US they have these certain constitutionally protected rights. Now we may have a few bad apples amongst us. But IMO Mr. Ashcroft has gone way over board with his "watchlist" (literally hundreds of thousands of names appear on it). And in the process he has spent millions of dollars following ordinary law abidding citizens around. Seeing as 0 terrorists have actually been convicted. If he was a baseball player he would be batting 0 (Zero as in none to be clear). Either that or he is barking up the wrong tree?? Type into google Dearborn MI, Lackawana NY, or Arab American persecution and you will see what I mean....jdcamb

[$tinkle]

i wasn't aware of richard reid's conviction being overturned. Or jose padia, or those guys in buffalo, or...or...

Domestically, the Justice Department has charged 260 persons in terrorism investigations, including 140 who have pleaded guilty or been convicted.
qliq (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030911-120003-9003r.htm)

alternet....pfft!

(maybe they meant since 9/11/2004?)

[Toshi]

i wasn't aware of richard reid's conviction being overturned. Or jose padia, or those guys in buffalo, or...or...

alternet....pfft!

(maybe they meant since 9/11/2004?)
richard reid was british. ashcroft is not involved in his prosecution.

jose padilla (http://www.time.com/time/pow/article/0,8599,262269,00.html) is actually a great example of misinformation among the right wing sheep, as HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED by a jury. http://www3.warblogging.com/counts/ states

Faced with the fact that they could never secure a criminal conviction of Padilla in a fair jury trial, the Justice Department decided to classify him an "enemy combatant" and transfer him to military custody. Since his transfer to military custody Padilla has been held in solitary confinement by the US Navy without being charged with a crime or having access to his attorney. As Steven Shapiro, legal director of the ACLU pointed out, "If the government has a case against Padilla, it can and should charge him and try him, just as it is trying others who have been accused of terrorist acts."

At the time this announcement is being written the Padilla Count stands at 234. That is 234 days that Jose Padilla has been held extrajudicially by the Bush Administration.
i'm unfamiliar with who you are referring to as the "guys in buffalo" and i don't feel like doing your research so i won't comment on that.

as for the validity of your washington times link citing the "140 convictions" i present this: http://zzpat.tripod.com/cvb/dec_2003/feds_hype_terrorism_conviction_rate.html

the median sentence for those convicted of international terrorism during that time is just 14 days, while some convictions the government has labeled as related to counterterrorism resulted in a sentence of community service or drug rehabilitation, according to government data to be released by a private research group [in december 2003]

...

Federal authorities in New Jersey initially included attempts by 65 Middle Eastern men to cheat on an English-language entrance exam among their "terrorism-related" cases, briefly boosting terrorism prosecutions in that state from two to 67. The categorization was changed after it was reported in the media.

"We aren't safer when we call people who aren't terrorists 'terrorists.' We are safer when we catch more terrorists," said Timothy Edgar, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C. "What this TRAC report shows is that the huge spike in numbers does not reflect any increase in the number of terrorists we've caught."
in summary, the administration is full of it, and their collective pants are on fire (not just mr. cheney now).

[Changleen]

And US Civil liberties take another swift one 'sur les sac magique'...
:nuts:

[$tinkle]

richard reid was british. ashcroft is not involved in his prosecution.uhhhh...isn't this article about sweeping up foreign nat'ls? I guessed that's what the article implied by "Until that reversal, the Detroit case had marked the only terrorist conviction obtained from the Justice Department's detention of more than 5,000 foreign nationals in anti-terrorism sweeps since 9/11. "
jose padilla (http://www.time.com/time/pow/article/0,8599,262269,00.html) is actually a great example of misinformation among the right wing sheep, as HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED by a jury. http://www3.warblogging.com/counts/ statesapologies. I do recall hearing on NPR late last year that he was ordered released. (Happy ramadan?) but, just so i understand: if a detainee is denied bail or not charged, it's "justice denied", but if they're released, it's "justice served"?i'm unfamiliar with who you are referring to as the "guys in buffalo" and i don't feel like doing your research so i won't comment on that.the lackawanna 5 were charged (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/18/attack/main522468.shtml) with providing support or resources to foreign terrorists 2 years ago.as for the validity of your washington times link citing the "140 convictions" i present this: http://zzpat.tripod.com/cvb/dec_2003/feds_hype_terrorism_conviction_rate.html
someone should also present you with a calendar - this is from december 2003. Would you have me to believe nothing has been done since then? Oh, the "impeach bush" banner ad just screams how "balanced" this site is.in summary, the administration is full of it, and their collective pants are on fire (not just mr. cheney now).i will agree that there needs to be a more speedy & fair process which results in convictions.

oh, i should also add to the final list:
sami al baradai (FL state professor aiding hamas)
john walker lindh ("taliban john")
i'm sure there are other less sensational individuals, but i don't have subpoena power to get all the names.
And US Civil liberties take another swift one 'sur les sac magique'...i'm not sure what "on the magic bag" means in french parlance, but i trust there's a tongue firmly implanted in your cheek.

[Toshi]

uhhhh...isn't this article about sweeping up foreign nat'ls? I guessed that's what the article implied by "Until that reversal, the Detroit case had marked the only terrorist conviction obtained from the Justice Department's detention of more than 5,000 foreign nationals in anti-terrorism sweeps since 9/11. "
the article is about citizens and foreign nationals who are prosecuted in the united states. to the best of my knowledge the ashcroft-led u.s. DoJ had nothing to do with richard reid's prosecution, thus it is outside the scope.
the lackawanna 5 were charged (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/18/attack/main522468.shtml) with providing support or resources to foreign terrorists 2 years ago.
that link actually calls them the lackawanna 6... it looks like they pled guilty after plea bargaining: http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/12/buffalo.terror.cell/ . so the govt has not been entirely ineffective, great.
someone should also present you with a calendar - this is from december 2003. Would you have me to believe nothing has been done since then? Oh, the "impeach bush" banner ad just screams how "balanced" this site is.
i didn't claim that the site was balanced. the date is also irrelevant since it is after the justice department started bandying about its claim of 140 terror-related convictions, with the point being tha the convictions were nearly universally related to terror tangentially if at all.
oh, i should also add to the final list:
sami al baradai (FL state professor aiding hamas)
john walker lindh ("taliban john")
i'm sure there are other less sensational individuals, but i don't have subpoena power to get all the names.
it's actually sami al-arian. http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2004/0812/dailyUpdate.html?s=ent2 implies that the trial is ongoing. it mentions that the prosecution suffered a setback as the judge stated that simply showing that al-arian sent money to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad was not sufficient to prove that he supported terrorism.

john walker lindh is a unique case, and he indeed was sentenced to 20 years after pleading guilty "to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal information charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting against the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance." http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/shows/walker/profile.html

so yes, there have been a few convictions and plea bargains. that website claiming 0 convictions was incorrect, even at the time. also evident is that there has not been any widespread pattern of convictions. finally, assuming that the government simply hasn't publicized their successes is ridiculous. if anything the evidence is that the government is simply interning hundreds at guantanemo WITHOUT charging them, and that is an unacceptable breach of due process.

[Silver]

Hey, Tommy Chong is in jail, and Cat Stevens is back in Britain. That's good enough for me...

[Changleen]

i'm not sure what "on the magic bag(s)" means in french parlance, but i trust there's a tongue firmly implanted in your cheek.

On the happy sacks. The family Jewels. The plums. The nads. the kanackas. The love apples. You know. Les sac magique! :eek:

[Hawkeye]

When these plane flying terrorists come here they started recruiting asscociates in San Diego. They got 10-12 sympatizers to their cause there. How many do you think they could have got in Chicago, New York, LA, or the muslim heavy Detroit? Terrorists walk among us just waiting for the time to strike, or perhaps the trigger to strike.


That being said I have 3 Muslim neighbors, all keep very wierd hours and are always looking at everyone else ont he block with menacing stares, should I call the FBI?

[Toshi]

When these plane flying terrorists come here they started recruiting asscociates in San Diego. They got 10-12 sympatizers to their cause there. How many do you think they could have got in Chicago, New York, LA, or the muslim heavy Detroit? Terrorists walk among us just waiting for the time to strike, or perhaps the trigger to strike.

That being said I have 3 Muslim neighbors, all keep very wierd hours and are always looking at everyone else ont he block with menacing stares, should I call the FBI?
i would wager that the distrust shared by you and your muslim neighbors is because you don't know squat about each other. why don't you get to know them before possibly accusing them of being terrorists? :stupid:

[Hawkeye]

I was being a little sarcastic, however in my attempts to be nice to them I always wave when I drive by and I let their "untrained" children play in the street in front f my car waiting for them to clear, and I also allow their kids to litter my yard with their toys. I am by far a better neighbor to them than they are to me.