View Full Version : Where's the bad economy?
Where's the bad economy?
N8 OpEd | 17 Sep | N8
If there's one thing that is the first to die in bad economic times its the construction industry.
Kerry and the rest of his liberal supporters keep harping on the economy being in the tank, but frankly I just don't see it and I highly doubt anyone else does either.
Everywhere around me is construction. Restaurants, coffee shops, mega-marts, office buildings, medical plazas and (my business) new homes are bursting out of once vacant fields and empty lots.
Think the economy sucks? Try to schedule a plumber or an electrician or a roofing crew sometime. These guys are balls-to-the-wall seven days a week. "Yeah, we might be able to get to you in a couple weeks," is what a general contractor hears more often than not these days.
It was just a few short years ago when I had several phone calls a week from journeymen looking for jobs to work on. But that was when Clinton was in office and interest rates were 9%.
Naw, I'm not buying "Its the economy stupid" Kerry line and I don't think 99% of the materialistic suburban metro's or Nascar country-livin' argro's do either.
Toshi
09-17-2004, 07:31 PM
sweet jeebus. did you just post your own ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE about construction and somehow expect it to convince us in the face of job loss/gain statistics?
Where'd you get the econ degree?
Depending on the sector, construction is booming because of the combination of reeeeealllly low interest rates and suddenly vacated commercial space (hmmm... I wonder why it was vacated?).
LordOpie
09-17-2004, 07:33 PM
Please explain why we should waste our time talking to you about the subject. Have you actually taken some time and tried to educate yourself or are you just paraphrasing or pasting someone else's words?
No, I didn't bother reading it cuz I'm guessing your post ain't your words or it's just some stupid anecdotal commentary that applies only in N8land.
Where'd you get the econ degree?
Depending on the sector, construction is booming because of the combination of reeeeealllly low interest rates and suddenly vacated commercial space (hmmm... I wonder why it was vacated?).
All the commercial space is being used and new space is being built as fast as possible.
sweet jeebus. did you just post your own ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE about construction and somehow expect it to convince us in the face of job loss/gain statistics?
Well, most business and people don't invest money in new facilities unless they see a return on investment.
Roughly 24 percent of all voters think the economy is the top issue. Too bad more than 3 voters in four have other concerns.
Please explain why we should waste our time talking to you about the subject. Have you actually taken some time and tried to educate yourself or are you just paraphrasing or pasting someone else's words?
No, I didn't bother reading it cuz I'm guessing your post ain't your words or it's just some stupid anecdotal commentary that applies only in N8land.
How many companies have you owned again?
:confused:
LordOpie
09-17-2004, 07:38 PM
How many companies have you owned again?
:confused:
You learned the art of confusion and misdirection well young one. Darth Bush would be proud.
You learned the art of confusion and misdirection well young one. Darth Bush would be proud.
You have actually generated wealth for yourself and been responsible for the life-style of those who work for you... right?
*cough*... :crickets:
Yeeeeah... that's what I though.
:p
Silver
09-17-2004, 07:55 PM
Yeeeeah... that's what I though.
:p
Quit fvcking doing that.
Quit fvcking doing that.
I ain't.
How many companies have you owned again?
:confused:
only one.
but now I work advising executives of multi-$B companies. I, and they, can tell you that there's a lot going on, and the economy is rebounding... with a caveat: consumers are now spending beyond their means and leveraging debt in ways that have never been done before (i.e. to support lifestyle, rather than basic needs). Businesses are doing their best to capture that IMMEDIATELY before their competitor does, because there's going to be a huge backlash as creditors come knocking.
What we SHOULD have seen, and may have if jobs had been protected, interest rates hadn't dropped out from under banks, and consumer responsibility been acknowledged, was lower unemployment in '03 but slower growth coming into '04 with lower consumer debt
Hmmmmm.... continually spending money we don't have to prop up an image of prosperance... kind of reminds of something... what is it? I just can't think of it... hmmm... it's like the same thing only much much bigger.... on the tip of my tongue... ahh **** it.
Toshi
09-17-2004, 08:12 PM
heh. some light reading about consumer debt: http://credit.about.com/cs/economics101/a/031203.htm
The personal credit card debt carried by the average American is $8,562 [ed: source not cited] and the total interest paid in 2001 was $50 billion.... an average of $1000 in interest per consumer. The average consumer caries 8 cards and 20% of cards are maxed out.
heh. some light reading about consumer debt: http://credit.about.com/cs/economics101/a/031203.htm
Too bad, how sad.
I pay my credit card off every month. I have a good income and I live within my means. I only buy consumer goods that I can pay cash for.
Yeah, I've sacrificed... I lived without cable tv 39 years but now I gots me some!
Toshi
09-17-2004, 08:23 PM
Too bad, how sad.
I pay my credit card off every month. I have a good income and I live within my means. I only buy consumer goods that I can pay cash for.
Yeah, I've sacrificed... I lived without cable tv 39 years but now I gots me some!
hint 2: it's not sound reasoning to generalize from anecdotes. my own finances are in order too and i wasn't unemployed recently, but that doesn't mean that unemployment and financial disarray aren't significant problems in the u.s. today.
hint 2: it's not sound reasoning to generalize from anecdotes. my own finances are in order too and i wasn't unemployed recently, but that doesn't mean that unemployment and financial disarray aren't significant problems in the u.s. today.
Unemployent is something like 5% right? I suppose the other 95% of folks are doing something.
Personal financial disarray is something that no matter how you try, can't really be pinned on Pres. Bush now can it? Nope... that can be blamed on personal responsibility or lack there of.
Toshi
09-17-2004, 08:43 PM
Unemployent is something like 5% right? I suppose the other 95% of folks are doing something.
Personal financial disarray is something that no matter how you try, can't really be pinned on Pres. Bush now can it? Nope... that can be blamed on personal responsibility or lack there of.
notice how ohio was attempting (too subtly i guess :rolleyes: ) to draw a parallel between consumer irresponsibility and gwb's own fiscal irresponsibility. see: iraq war, tax cuts not accompanied by spending cuts.
as for unemployment: http://www.southend.wayne.edu/modules/news/article.php?storyid=178
The survey also showed that the total employment of persons in the Labor Force rose by 629,000 to 139.7 million in July. And the employment-population ratio, “the proportion of the population age 16 and over with jobs,” increased to 62.5 percent.
There were 1.6 million people who were not in the labor force in July, the same number as the previous year. These people wanted to work and were available. They were not counted as unemployed in the survey, however, because they did not actively search for work within the four weeks preceding the survey.
There were 504,000 of the 1.6 million who were discouraged workers. The survey said these people believed that no jobs were available for them and was the reason why they did not look for work.
so the true number is more like 5.something% + these above 1.6 million. and before you pull the gop talking points about job creation statistics out of (literally perhaps?) your anus :monkey: keep in mind (source here (http://www.rapidimmigration.com/usa/1_eng_immigration_facts.html)/here (http://www.cis.org/topics/currentnumbers.html)) that the u.s. has an influx of approximately 1.3-1.5 million immigrants each year, so the economy would have to produce ~1 million new jobs/yr just to keep pace with that.
Hard to believe the economy is in the tank when college aged scrubs are hangin' out at Starbucks downing $4.00 cups of joe and wearing $150 tenny-runners.
narlus
09-17-2004, 09:02 PM
someone hit him w/ lisa's rock. preferably in the face.
LordOpie
09-17-2004, 09:35 PM
Hard to believe the economy is in the tank when college aged scrubs are hangin' out at Starbucks downing $4.00 cups of joe and wearing $150 tenny-runners.
In recent news, IQ level designating retarded drops from 70 to N8.
In recent news, IQ level designating retarded drops from 70 to N8.
Remember kids, you must be present to win!
fluff
09-18-2004, 07:16 AM
Remember kids, you must be present to win!
Or more likely... lose.
I've owned two companies and you're still an idiot.
Skookum
09-18-2004, 11:21 AM
You've just lost ALL credibility with me on this one N8. Construction is usually around 2 years behind the economic trend because finance for new construction gets hammered out. The go ahead gets done and the plans get drawn up, contracters bid on jobs within the project, scheduling and problems arise.
Again your limited vision fails to see how things "really are". It's not like guys in hard hats just show up and magically put a building up.
But i forgot retardicans like you think that Americans are fat and lazy and just crying about getting less and less pay, less and less work, crappier work conditions, new laws from bushy eliminating overtime pay. Just get more illegal's in here because everybody know they don't work better, but they are good and cheap. Because that's what i see everyday, and i'm in the trenches, you are just talkin out the side of your neck....
Skookum
09-18-2004, 11:32 AM
Unemployent is something like 5% right? I suppose the other 95% of folks are doing something.
Unemployment is not a good indicator of what's going on in the "real world" N8. it doesn't show how the college grad has to settle for a job at Taco Bell, or a job he knows is only temporary because he's busy training his replacement from India who's going to take his job over there as soon as it's over.
Personal financial disarray is something that no matter how you try, can't really be pinned on Pres. Bush now can it? Nope... that can be blamed on personal responsibility or lack there of.
Completely wrong, i'd agree 95% with your line of thinking during Clintons admin because the economy was strong. Now things are fubar'd i used to like looking down on the bums but now that opportunities are dried up i actually have to have empathy for them.
Westy
09-18-2004, 12:06 PM
"Economic growth is on track, but rising budget deficits could increase interest rates and squeeze out private investment. This could lead to high inflation and low growth-Stagflation"-Alan Greenspan
The unemployement rade decreased in August by .1%, mainly because the labour force was reduced by 150,000. Where did these 150,000 people go? Some died or retired, most just gave up looking for jobs.
LordOpie
09-18-2004, 12:37 PM
You've just lost ALL credibility with me on this one N8.
He still had some?
I know I pick on N8 a lot and I know I'm mean, but I'm serious... how can anyone here respect the guy -- even the smallest amount -- for the constant barage of idiocy?
I guess I'm just as bad as him... cuz he's financially secure, he thinks everyone should be. Cuz I'm an idiot, but I try to learn from my stupidity, I think everyone should.
Back to the abuse... N8, for the love of humanity, don't reproduce.
ALEXIS_DH
09-18-2004, 01:25 PM
Too bad, how sad.
I pay my credit card off every month. I have a good income and I live within my means. I only buy consumer goods that I can pay cash for.
Yeah, I've sacrificed... I lived without cable tv 39 years but now I gots me some!
OH!!!! obvious!!!!
the explains your 2% wannabism, and fundamentalist republicanism.
you are nouveau-riche.
Skookum
09-18-2004, 01:32 PM
The unemployement rade decreased in August by .1%, mainly because the labour force was reduced by 150,000. Where did these 150,000 people go? Some died or retired, most just gave up looking for jobs.
Hmmm because after flipping burgers at Wendy's got them humiliation, and still way in the hole in debt. Not because they couldn't afford cable, but because they couldn't afford thier apt./food/car payment/insurance/child care.... So they got smart and started selling drugs instead.....
i still don't get how retardicans are supposed to be "realists" to me they're way more out of touch of than the dumbocrats.
valve bouncer
09-18-2004, 09:46 PM
He still had some?
I know I pick on N8 a lot and I know I'm mean, but I'm serious... how can anyone here respect the guy -- even the smallest amount -- for the constant barage of idiocy?
I guess I'm just as bad as him... cuz he's financially secure, he thinks everyone should be. Cuz I'm an idiot, but I try to learn from my stupidity, I think everyone should.
Back to the abuse... N8, for the love of humanity, don't reproduce.
Don't worry Loopie, abuse of N8 here is not only encouraged it's the duty of every PD Forum participant.
Here's my contribution-an oldie but a goodie
Is this you N8?
$tinkle
09-20-2004, 12:05 AM
let's see if i understand those who disagree w/ N8 (heretofore called "everyone"):
you offer your opinion, a link or two (which may or may not be relevant), another opinion, a few misspelled words, all on one of your many computers (presumably paid for), w/ access via your ISP - also paid for - using electricity (paid for). Unless, of course, you're talkin' all this smack FROM WORK!!!! In which case, kindly go piss up a rope (as able to do so).
All the while NOT looking for work, NOT doing self-improvement.
This is just one big circle-jerk w/ N8 as the convenient monkey-in-the-middle wearing the stained dress.
...and another thing: why is anecdotal evidence handily dismissed even if that is exactly what eye-witness testimony is classified as in - say - a murder trial? traffic court? whenever you get busted coming out of the leathershop on Broadway (opie!).
he he... candy from a baby...
Unless, of course, you're talkin' all this smack FROM WORK!!!! In which case, kindly go piss up a rope (as able to do so).
All the while NOT looking for work, NOT doing self-improvement.
You are aware that you are also posting messages online, right? Just checking.
That being said, I think most everyone that posts here has work or school. Additionally, I consider political debate a form of self-improvement.
Maybe you'd be a little more open of you did too. I realize there's some mild-hypocrisy in that statement, in that I'm closed like the DMV after 5pm when it comes to N8s threads... but that's because they're asinine. Other conservatives on the board have certainly made me think, and many (Burly, LL) have changed my stance on a few things.
...and another thing: why is anecdotal evidence handily dismissed even if that is exactly what eye-witness testimony is classified as in - say - a murder trial? traffic court? whenever you get busted coming out of the leathershop on Broadway (opie!).
I feel like I explain this once every six months.Anecdotal evidence is the use of singular events to draw conclusions about a greater trend. Like using a single datum point to draw a line.
In the case of a murder trial, you're not trying to draw a conclusion anything greater than a single perpetrator at a single moment in time. Using one (or more... if there's several witnesses) datum point, to describe ONE datum point. See the difference?
Inclag
10-06-2008, 10:58 AM
bump!
i did get a call from my banker telling me that they have money to lend..
:)
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