Specializeds are up

[escapeartist]

The 2005 specializeds are on the specialized site here ya go (http://www.specialized.com/SBCBikes.jsp?my=2005&JServSessionIdroot=638rpiy0nr.j27005) and they look sweet, i hope this isnt a repeat though

[kidwoo]

3300 for the demo 9 frame, 2800 for the demo 8? Yeah, good luck with that.

If anyone from specialized is reading this........ I would have liked to own another one of your bikes next season but apparently they only fit inside of hummers.

[escapeartist]

ya, the bikes look great, but i hate that they seem to be cgetting rid of middle of the price range frreride/downhill bikes, the cheapest real bike like that is the $2200 big hit, then it goes down to the bighit spec.....what happened to a the big hit comp? the freeride enduro are pretty nice but i dont think ill ever be able to afford that

[Roasted]

Well...ironhorse for me. Thats just ridiculous. I hope they never completely dump the bighit fsr lineup. If theydo I doubt I would consider a specialized again in those price ranges.

[Langer]

SX Trail is $3300. Sworks Enduro is $5500. You can buy a bike that has a motor for the same price and will have coil springs too.

[punkassean]

SX Trail is $3300...

Yes the MSRP is $3,300, but you most likely won't see these bikes for more than 90% of that even initially, which is in this case about $2,999. After a few months the prices will come down even more to maybe 80-85% of MSRP. This is nothing new it happens every year. Companies advertise inflated MSRP's so that when customers go to the local dealer and see a better price they think it's a better deal when in reality the dealer is still making a full margin.

Specialized '05 are some of the nicest bikes available as far as construction, spec and the end result (performance), I think the prices will be fair considering that.

here's a nice desktop for you non-haters...
http://trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/sxtrail.jpg
It show more detail than the speccy webpage.

[math2014]

Well the prices for SX, D8, D9 frames are just ridicullus. At least the Demo8 is for once cheaper in Europe.... 2350$ in comparison to 2800$ in the US. Yet the SX is 600$ more expensive than it used to be...

[mack]

could some on tell me what is so good about the demo nine othre than it looks cool, why is the bike so awesome, and is it more oh a free ride or DH geomotry?

[gr1]

No Sx Trail on the Uk site...???

[ssk]

Tell me the headset on the SX trail isn't as cheap as it sounds
Cr-Mo, 1 1/8” threadless, all alloy and steel construction, loose ball bearing with seals

[Lexx D]

Tell me the headset on the SX trail isn't as cheap as it sounds
Well they had to cut some stuff out to make the bike cheaper :think:

[Brian HCM#1]

3300 for the demo 9 frame, 2800 for the demo 8? Yeah, good luck with that.

If anyone from specialized is reading this........ I would have liked to own another one of your bikes next season but apparently they only fit inside of hummers.
Sorry, thats too much $ for a Specialized frame IMO.

[DVNT]

I think the prices are fair. The Demo 8 is only 3800 bucks.
I've been trying to build my SX now for a while now and it's running up to the same price! I love my SX frame but sh!t I could love on a demo8 a lot more!

What do you guys think about the P.3 in all white! :drool:
Put some white Halo's on that mug :thumb:

I agree about the new SX models. Overpriced / Under spec'd and FUGLY

[Acadian]

Sorry, thats too much $ for a Specialized frame IMO.

but it would look so nice in your future Hummer!! :rolleyes:

[Brian HCM#1]

but it would look so nice in your future Hummer!! :rolleyes:
Same with a 2005 Armageddon:rolleyes:;)

[CBJ]

3300 for the demo 9 frame, 2800 for the demo 8? Yeah, good luck with that.

If anyone from specialized is reading this........ I would have liked to own another one of your bikes next season but apparently they only fit inside of hummers.


That's good comedy :D


2200 for a IH Sunday with rear hub, Thomson seatpost and headset or 3300 for a demo 9 - some many difficult decisions for next year.

[neversummersnow]

I will say that their frame quality/construction does warrent a higher price tag than before.

Specialized is going through a change in image. Highest quality possible seems to be their new game.

Worrying about where a frame is made is SO 1990.

[Zark]

That's good comedy :D


2200 for a IH Sunday with rear hub, Thomson seatpost and headset or 3300 for a demo 9 - some many difficult decisions for next year.

The demo also comes with the rear hub (Ringle) and a post and a BB.

[kidwoo]

2005 Armageddon

That's like saying a 2005 ford model T.

[Acadian]

The demo also comes with the rear hub (Ringle) and a post and a BB.

I don't see mention of it on their site?

[Zark]

I don't see mention of it on their site?

It didn't mention it last year either, but they came with a Ringle hub, a Truvativ ISIS BB and post and collar.

I'm pretty sure the dealer catalog will outline all that is included with the frameset.

[math2014]

Specialized deserves to go under in profit and sales for 2005. I love my 04 SX, but those 05 prices are redicilus at least.

I know that it is my option to buy or not. I am just critisizing stuff...
I dont see any good reason to get a speccy now with these prices....
Can someone explain to me this? How much better is the demo8 to the bighit DH frame in order to justify 100% price increase?

[Zark]

Can someone explain to me this? How much better is the demo8 to the bighit DH frame in order to justify 100% price increase?

I'll take a stab at it, 24" wheels suck balls for DH(I'll don the flame suit now, the 24" wheel mafia already has a price on my head!). The new design is stiffer, more linear rate, better pedaling. These prices are tough to swallow, but quality costs, regardless of where it was made.

[zedro]

Can someone explain to me this? How much better is the demo8 to the bighit DH frame in order to justify 100% price increase?

would it make you feel better if the words "Foes" were painted on it?

[math2014]

Zark i agree that where something is made is totally insignificant.

But, Speccy can afford the quality of intense at a much lower price... however she doesnt do it for marketing reasons...and this sucks imho.

[Zark]

Speccy quality is MUCH better than Intense in every way. I have two Intense bike, and from welds, fit and finish, warranty, dealer network, the works I say that the price being higher for a Demo than, say an M3, is justified.

[Brian HCM#1]

That's like saying a 2005 ford model T.
That was kind my point.

[math2014]

Speccy quality is MUCH better than Intense in every way. I have two Intense bike, and from welds, fit and finish, warranty, dealer network, the works I say that the price being higher for a Demo than, say an M3, is justified.

I stand corrected bro, i ve only seen a couple of M1s, V10s, Blurs so i cannot comment a lot.

From a business point of view, i hate big companies that charge prices that small companies do, they can afford lower costs, it is like microsoft charging 300$ for office XP.

Anyhow, next time i ll see a Tazer FS rider i am gona flame him about my SX.

[kidwoo]

Speccy quality is MUCH better than Intense in every way. I have two Intense bike, and from welds, fit and finish, warranty, dealer network, the works I say that the price being higher for a Demo than, say an M3, is justified.

Thank you for saying what I as a non-intense owner would like to have said. With the way specialized handles its warranty issues these days, coupled with much better designs than they had 4 years ago, I hate to say it, but you're probably right. Specialized knows it too I guess.

[Zark]

I stand corrected bro, i ve only seen a couple of M1s, V10s, Blurs so i cannot comment a lot.

From a business point of view, i hate big companies that charge prices that small companies do, they can afford lower costs, it is like microsoft charging 300$ for office XP.

Anyhow, next time i ll see a Tazer FS rider i am gona flame him about my SX.

Its not like the quality is bad on an M1, but put it next to a Demo and it is night and day.

The Tazer isn't known for umm durability. And that is a bad thing considering intended use (jumps, and such)

[Zark]

Thank you for saying what I as a non-intense owner would like to have said. With the way specialized handles its warranty issues these days, coupled with much better designs than they had 4 years ago, I hate to say it, but you're probably right. Specialized knows it too I guess.

Just being honest man! They have taken an interesting direction for a big manufacturer by going up against the niche companies, but with better infrastructure and quality and warranty. If it works out or not we will see.

All I know is I want one of each! :love:

[oly]

It didn't mention it last year either, but they came with a Ringle hub, a Truvativ ISIS BB and post and collar.

I'm pretty sure the dealer catalog will outline all that is included with the frameset.

It did actually say the hub was included on their website last year. Go look, they have the 2004 links up. I also called a friend who works at a dealer and he said the new catalog didnt have any mention of the hub either. Another difference is you get a 4way swinger now rather than the 6way of last year. So 600 more for less??? If the demo8 came out first, and then the bigger badder D9 was next then there wouldnt be alot of issue to me other than its still too much $$, but offering less for more $$ dumb.

About the actual cost....how much does a worker at the TW factory make copared to US builder? I know location doesnt matter, but the reason they make bike over there is to save $$, and the biggest savings is usually in the difference in wages?? (correct me if im wrong). That usually makes its way down to the end consumer, but it seems in their case they arent passing on any savings.

Personally myself i wont pay that price...even if the Dumbo is the best bike in the world...... I think they are being greedy.

[Roasted]

Haha...the dumbo...haha...

[punkassean]

I stand corrected bro, i ve only seen a couple of M1s, V10s, Blurs so i cannot comment a lot.

From a business point of view, i hate big companies that charge prices that small companies do, they can afford lower costs, it is like microsoft charging 300$ for office XP.

Anyhow, next time i ll see a Tazer FS rider i am gona flame him about my SX.

IMO your model of SX is very much like a Tazer but w/ less hype and more substance. In the case of companies like Spec. mass producing often means better quality than boutique.

I really think people should wait and see what the bikes are really selling for before freaking out and shunning the big S...

[Kornphlake]

I really think people should wait and see what the bikes are really selling for before freaking out and shunning the big S...

I've always thought specialized bikes delivered less bang for the buck than other companies. Look at the bottom of the line rock hopper compared to a giant iguana or whatever the comparable bike is, on the giant you'll find an upgraded rear derailur, better fork and and a more expensive wheelset for $20 less than the specialized. I can see that their high end bikes may have quality built in but don't try and convince me that their budget models have better quality than any other budget bike from any other company.

Now before I get flamed, I didn't actually look up the specs on the two bikes I mentioned, I may be off and I don't really care. I do know that of the last 3 bikes I bought I compared specialized to other brands at a similar price point and found specialized to be less of a value in the end.

[binary visions]

About the actual cost....how much does a worker at the TW factory make copared to US builder? I know location doesnt matter, but the reason they make bike over there is to save $$, and the biggest savings is usually in the difference in wages?? (correct me if im wrong). That usually makes its way down to the end consumer, but it seems in their case they arent passing on any savings.

Well, when we're talking about paying a highly skilled CNC machinist vs. some guy with 20 hours of training and a welding torch, there's going to be a big difference in wages. Taiwan workers are getting paid more and more as the years go by, and we're not talking about a doller a day anymore.

It could very well be that Specialized is having their high end bikes made in Taiwan simply because everything else they're making is being built over there. Frankly, there are a lot of very nice factories over there that they may have access to instead of finding a place to build 'em in the US.

As Sean said, we should wait and see what the bikes actually sell for before damning the big "S".

[punkassean]

...Another difference is you get a 4way swinger now rather than the 6way of last year. So 600 more for less??? If the demo8 came out first, and then the bigger badder D9 was next then there wouldnt be alot of issue to me other than its still too much $$, but offering less for more $$ dumb.

About the actual cost....how much does a worker at the TW factory make copared to US builder? I know location doesnt matter, but the reason they make bike over there is to save $$, and the biggest savings is usually in the difference in wages?? (correct me if im wrong). That usually makes its way down to the end consumer, but it seems in their case they arent passing on any savings.

1st. Spec went with a Swinger 4-way this year because they have proven more reliable (than 6-way) and many people seem to think they feel better. They also spec a Ti spring which adds a few $$$. I agree though that it is hard to justify a "substantial" price increase from last year for basically the same thing (no more/no less).

2nd. There is a lot more to the big picture than just base level employee wages. A percentage of $ saved by moving production overseas gets absorbed in shipping back to the states etc. Still, I would wager that most of the money is spent on R&D. Engineers don't make $1hr.! Specialized put a ton of thought and research into making one of (if not) the most advanced DH bike available to the public. Of course it cost's a bit more than some other bikes...

If you want a Big Hit, buy the complete bike for $2,200, that's a killer price!If you want a Demo9 buy the complete bike for $4,400. That's only $1,100 more than just the frame and you get an 8" 888, 8" Hayes hydro's, Holzfeller's, Blackspire Dewlie, Mavic/Stout sealed bearing wheels and the rest of a worthy DH build. If the frame prices sound a little inflated, remember they probably don't want to sell you a frame when they could sell you a whole bike.

Bottom line, Spec. '05 is a bad ass line and like other's have said, that comes with a price!

Don't buy it if you don't want to, simple as that :nopity:

[Damn True]

Sorry, thats too much $ for a Specialized frame IMO.

Better to pay that kind of money to a strong stable company, with great customer service, reliable delivery, and killer heat treating.........like Karpiel?

[math2014]

All the above points are well put, especially Oly's point.

However, i know the real FINAL euro prices... and you wont be able to get a single euro chopped off these prices... unlike US msrp.

Demo8 is 2360$
SX is 2000$

Frame only i am talking about.

For this money you can get frames with swinger 6way, 5th elys or RC propedal.

And to put it through a different perpective.

Toyota for example makes awesome commercial cars. Suppose they make a supercar like the Enzo or Modena, and they price it up just like a Ferrari... then i would definately choose a Ferrari vs the Toyota.

[punkassean]

I am a Toyota guy till the day I die because they make the best all-around vehicles on the market. If Toyota were to make a commercial supercar it would undoubtedly be better (more reliable, better mannered) than a Ferrari. Who has more engineers and $ to do research? I think your example is a good one but I think it proves my point better than yours.

Specialized is like Burton for snowboards, they make the goods and some people just can't bring themselves to own a name brand product. I am not a fan of boutique anything, you pay more for less and typically deal with more warranty issues and worse CS etc, be it Intense, Karpiel, Ellsworth or Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus it's typically the same.

Don't you want quality products from a reputable company???

[Dogboy]

1st. Spec went with a Swinger 4-way this year because they have proven more reliable (than 6-way) and many people seem to think they feel better. They also spec a Ti spring which adds a few $$$. I agree though that it is hard to justify a "substantial" price increase from last year for basically the same thing (no more/no less).
Regarding the 4-way vs. 6-way. Our contact at Manitou recently mentioned the 6-way would probably go away in the near future. Probably like Sean said due to reliability issues. It's still in the 2005 catalog, but may just be carry over inventory.

[gastro]

I agree with Sean. I broke my seven year old Specialized MAX frame a couple weeks ago. They are sending me an SX frame (probably an 04) as a replacement, no questions asked. That's the sort of service that earns repeat customers, and I doubt many of the boutique brands would respond in that fashion.

When I found out, I was so ecstatic, I ordered an SX Trail. :)

[zedro]

That's the sort of service that earns repeat customers, and I doubt many of the boutique brands would respond in that fashion.



and thats the sort of thing that drives up prices. Think of it as a type of insurance policy.

[kidwoo]

I agree with Sean. I broke my seven year old Specialized MAX frame a couple weeks ago.


Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it? Seriously, I've only heard of this happening once. Mainframe, not swingarm parts....I'd pretty much come to accept the fact that those things were indestructable within the realm of sane riding. I still peruse classifieds looking for one of those in a medium to use as a jump bike.

[kidwoo]

and thats the sort of thing that drives up prices. Think of it as a type of insurance policy.

That's kind of how I view both specialized and turner. I've broken their stuff before but had replacements from both companies within 4 days. But still.......I like specialized bikes a lot but I never thought I'd see the day when their frames cost more than a foes or an intense. Now it's actually cheaper for me to buy whatever turner makes for xc bikes. Strange turn of events for sure.

How much do your frames cost? :D

[zedro]

How much do your frames cost? :D

hmm, the price fluctuates, but i accept money, beer, or hugs.

[Zark]

Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it? Seriously, I've only heard of this happening once. Mainframe, not swingarm parts....I'd pretty much come to accept the fact that those things were indestructable within the realm of sane riding. I still peruse classifieds looking for one of those in a medium to use as a jump bike.

I have seen one failure at the BB on those. It seemed like most held up really well.
I loved the MAX frame, I had a '98 that I never should have sold. I look around for those too! :D

[math2014]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

[gastro]

Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it?

Sorry, no pics...the seat tube broke at the top weld to the "mast" and peeled off at the back bottom of the post (about an inch below the minimum insertion hole).

My buddy has a cherry 98 Large with a lot fewer miles...I'm first on the list if he ever decides to get rid of it. Geometry is very similar to the SX.

[kidwoo]

I have seen one failure at the BB on those. It seemed like most held up really well.
I loved the MAX frame, I had a '98 that I never should have sold. I look around for those too! :D

The one I heard about was just an ovalized head tube that happened in what sounded like a pretty spectacular crash. But seriously, what was the last year those frames were made? 99? So now I know of three.......... I know they were expensive to extrude but I can't believe no one has copied those frames or that specialized quit making them.

I've got a BETD chainstay and a Risse seatstay on a 2000 enduro. If those were on one of the max backbone frames, I'd think that would be burlier than the sx bikes they're making now.

I just went to go grab some lunch and saw a guy riding one through town on one off the old black ones with the double crown manitou forks from 98.

[Zark]

I just went to go grab some lunch and saw a guy riding one through town on one off the old black ones with the double crown manitou forks from 98.

Bwahaha, thats the one I used to have! The '98 FSR pro. The last of the MAX frames was in 2000. The FSR DH (not SWorks) 6" had big USA flag stickers on it.

Didn't Marin use the same D-shaped extrusions on their bike for a while?

[dante]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

uh, I call bs. got any proof?

[math2014]

uh, I call bs. got any proof?

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

[zedro]

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

so? Toyota runs their own 'stock' car race series, Honda made a robot that can walk up stairs.....anecdotal evidence isnt evidence at all....

[Damn True]

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

Ferrari has an R&D group charged with developing what, like 3 models tops? Cars that are hand built at a rate of......well paint drys faster.

Toyota has something like 30 models worldwide (conservative) that have to be designed for mass production (much more difficult).
There are probably more engineers in Toyotas truck division than Ferrari has TOTAL employees.

[math2014]

Werent we talking about top end automotive technology? applied to races? if not then i am wrong

[punkassean]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

No way!

Toyota has sheer volume, waaaaay bigger co.

[math2014]

Ok lets get it straight, are we talking about the supercar departments or the company as a whole? coz if we are talking about the company as a whole then it is a different conversation, since we wont be talking about Ferrari anymore.

And thats not the point.

The point is that the new SX is overpriced! hence these constitutes Ferrari a better company....savvy?

[gastro]

The FSR DH (not SWorks) 6" had big USA flag stickers on it.


I saw someone riding one of those at Snowshoe this year. The '98 DH was black like the pro, but with an orange flame job (Palmer...*spits*) and an orange box section rear triangle that afforded the tire clearance that all Enduro owners until now have lusted for.

Toyotas are nice, but I bet their best effort wouldn't sound nearly as good as a Ferrari. Regardless, I'd get the McLaren F1 - ///M power.http://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/rock.gif

[math2014]

mclaren f1 rocks. I saw it several years ago up close and personal...in mclarens dealer in London... now that was a car to remember.

[ohio]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

hahahahahahaahahaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

if Toyota wanted to, they could quite easily devote an equal amount of cash and engineers to any segment ferrari competed in. not that that would matter. ferrari isn't handicapped by a lack of sound engineering (as you said, look at f1, all engineering)... they're handicapped by production and distribution abilities. Which is why toyota would be able to produce a car of far better quality for the money, or of equal quality for less money. In fact, having spent a bit of time in an f355 side-by-side with an NSX, I'd say the ferrari's quality was downright shoddy for about twice the money (at the time). Now the ferrari was faster, but if we're talking about QUALITY rather than pure performance, ferrari doesn't even come close. I would put it around the same level as my subaru forrester, and well below what I would expect from toyota and honda even at the camry/accord level.

Maybe they've improved in the past couple of years...

[rpet]

What happened to the "SX Enduro"?
I thought that NSMB mentioned one... A SX-type frame with a slightly lighter, all-mountain-type build?

Or are the Pro/Expert/Trail "enduro" frames the same?

-r

[punkassean]

What happened to the "SX Enduro"?
I thought that NSMB mentioned one... A SX-type frame with a slightly lighter, all-mountain-type build?

Or are the Pro/Expert/Trail "enduro" frames the same?

-r

Dude, are feeling alright?

How could you have missed the pic I posted on pg.1 of this thread???

The bike is called the "SX Trail"

[rpet]

No - I meant that all-mountain type Enduro, not the "Trail" one that is basically light-FR.

I re-read the NSMB article. I think it implies that the Enduro Pro/Enduro Expert/Enduro SX Trail share the same frame, with the SX Trail being the toughest build and the Pro/Expert being lighter but less rugged.

The plain "SX" is the MTX bike - with different frame geometry.

Anyway - all these bikes look nice, but expensive. I don't think I'd ever spend that much money on a complete-built bike. I'd want to choose my own parts for that kind of money.

http://www.nsmb.com/gear/sxtrail_09_04.php
quote from that article:
"So to get this straight, the Enduro will be an all-mountain bike - but one that is meant to be ridden hard - harder than the old Enduro. The SX trail, with the same travel as the Enduro, will be adorned with componentry ready for freeride nastiness - a Whistler Bike Park worthy bicycle. The SX will be designed to be raced on the toughest 4X and dual courses on the orb. This of course makes it ripe for dirt jumping and street applications as well. While the Enduro and SX trail share the same geometry and frame, the SX has shorter chainstays, a lower centre of gravity and BB and only 4.2" of rear travel (designed to accept a four or five inch fork)."



Dude, are feeling alright?

How could you have missed the pic I posted on pg.1 of this thread???

The bike is called the "SX Trail"

[Damn True]

First of all you are quoting an internet website as gospel with is really really funny.

Here's the dealio....
There is the standard Enduro FSR (last years chassis)
There are the new Enduro's 6" f/r fox/5th
There is an Enduro SX 4.5" travel 4x bike
There is an Enduro SX trail the one pictured on page one of this thread.

Choose your weapon.

[rpet]

Thanks - actually I wasn't taking anything for gospel - just trying to get a little clarification.
I'm sorry that I found the nomenclature for these new bikes a little confusing.
:drool: I count 3, maybe 4 different frames that are called "Enduro" something.

TGIF - everyone get some good dirt time this weekend! Montara en la manana.

-r

First of all you are quoting an internet website as gospel with is really really funny.

Here's the dealio....
There is the standard Enduro FSR (last years chassis)
There are the new Enduro's 6" f/r fox/5th
There is an Enduro SX 4.5" travel 4x bike
There is an Enduro SX trail the one pictured on page one of this thread.

Choose your weapon.

[Damn True]

Northstar en la manana

[math2014]

hahahahahahaahahaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

if Toyota wanted to, they could quite easily devote an equal amount of cash and engineers to any segment ferrari competed in. not that that would matter. ferrari isn't handicapped by a lack of sound engineering (as you said, look at f1, all engineering)... they're handicapped by production and distribution abilities. Which is why toyota would be able to produce a car of far better quality for the money, or of equal quality for less money. In fact, having spent a bit of time in an f355 side-by-side with an NSX, I'd say the ferrari's quality was downright shoddy for about twice the money (at the time). Now the ferrari was faster, but if we're talking about QUALITY rather than pure performance, ferrari doesn't even come close. I would put it around the same level as my subaru forrester, and well below what I would expect from toyota and honda even at the camry/accord level.

Maybe they've improved in the past couple of years...

On the F1 side, Toyota is on the F1 championship, getting flak from Ferrari as any other team, so i do not see how they can do something against scuderia. With respect to commercial cars i agree...it is david vs Goliath.

I hope in the near future that your F1 point prooves to be true in order to see some true F1 competition.