I just saw the worst, most disturbing, offensive campaign ad ever

[BigMike]

So I'm walking to class, with my advisor/professor, and a big box truck drives by. It had The Kerry/Edwards campaign on it, and said somthing to the effect of "John Kerry's choices."

The ENTIRE van was covered with pictures of dead babies. On the back, it had an aborted fetus bleeding all over a quarter.

I pointed it out to my advisor, and he said, "well, who do you think paid for that? The funds had to come from somewhere."

There were other students walking by gasping and saying "Thats Horrible!"



I guess they got their point across, but in my opinion thats disgraceful. How can they do somthing like that? I've heard of mudslinging, but this was just horrible. I don't consider myself very politically active, but this is taking it over the line.

/rant

[SkaredShtles]

With all due respect, I have to say that your advisor fails in the critical thinking category............

That being said, it sounds like an extremely poor ad campaign.

-S.S.-

[BurlyShirley]

I guess they got their point across, but in my opinion thats disgraceful. How can they do somthing like that? .

/rant

I dont know how or why people kill babies, but yes, I agree with you, it is disgraceful.

[SkaredShtles]

Oh, and I forgot to add - take it over to the F&*#ING political forum!! :angry:

-S.S.-

[Westy]

I have a feeling this will end up in the poli forum. Anyway most extremist anti abortion activist have a one track mind. They care for nothing else but their own little agenda, they would support Hitler if he was against abortion.

[BurlyShirley]

I have a feeling this will end up in the poli forum. Anyway most extremist anti abortion activist have a one track mind. They care for nothing else but their own little agenda, they would support Hitler if he was against abortion.

And most white people care about things more than people, and most jews are tight with money.

Enough with the hasty generalizations, k?

[SkaredShtles]

I have a feeling this will end up in the poli forum. Anyway most extremist anti abortion activist have a one track mind. They care for nothing else but their own little agenda, they would support Hitler if he was against abortion.
And they're *very* well funded. It's a bit of a stretch to connect the ad to the Bush/Chaney camp.

Did I spell "Chaney" right? :confused: :think:

-S.S.-

[s1ngletrack]

F***ing "in your face" fanatics - like there's any justification for parading that type of BS around in public - words cannot describe how pissed I'd be if I were driving along with my 7 year old son and he saw that. It's one thing to appeal to emotion - it's another thing entirely to push your extremist BS on ANYBODY who happens to be in the vicinity - whether they are 3 or 90 years old. Sounds like a prime candidate for the ol' stripped taillight wires in the gas cap trick (ala Rob Lowe in "Bad Influence")

[Velocity Girl]

And most white people care about things more than people, and most jews are tight with money.

Enough with the hasty generalizations, k?

He did same "Most extremist anti-abortion activists..." not all the activists. The extremists of any groupd tend to take things over the top and even end up hurting their cause rather then helping it.

[BurlyShirley]

This kind of reminds me of how the world got mad when we werent seeing pictures of Iraqi casualties in the US media. Like the US was hiding something. Well, here you go guys. Why hide it? Abortion is no big deal right? Just like blowing your nose? Why's it so offensive if abortion is ok?

This should go to political debate BTW.
Also, Im not anti-abortion, i just get wierded out by the double standards people live by.

[Westy]

And most white people care about things more than people, and most jews are tight with money.

Enough with the hasty generalizations, k?

Hasty generalization? I was not trying to comment on anyone other than the dead baby van drivers, not trying to compare anyone to Hitler. But if you think I was being hasty in stereotyping the dead baby van drivers, guilty as charged.

[BurlyShirley]

Id drive a dead baby van, so long as i got to eat them after

[s1ngletrack]

This kind of reminds me of how the world got mad when we werent seeing pictures of Iraqi casualties in the US media. Like the US was hiding something. Well, here you go guys. Why hide it? Abortion is no big deal right? Just like blowing your nose? Why's it so offensive if abortion is ok?

This should go to political debate BTW.
Also, Im not anti-abortion, i just get wierded out by the double standards people live by.

Double standard? I'm quite fond of nailing the GF's behind - and sex is a fact of life, right? So it only makes sense that I should be allowed to do so in public - right? Regardless of whether you are walking along on the sidewalk with your grandmother, kids, etc... do you follow?

[s1ngletrack]

Id drive a dead baby van, so long as i got to eat them after

There's a picture of this on Rotten.com - not that I'd uh, visit such a disgusting site mind you... :eek:

[Hawkeye]

I HIGHLY doubt the Bush camp paid for that add. Abortion activasts tend to be a little extreme in their campaigns and anyone running from office would be running from these tactics.

These people are driving around downtown Chicago all the time.

[valve bouncer]

Id drive a dead baby van, so long as i got to eat them after
See, now, you're trying too hard Shirley. Gotta ease back into it, the wit will flow eventually. ;)

[Silver]

Actually, from the abortion protesters I've met, most of them would vote for Hitler in a heartbeat. He was solid pretty solid on three of their big issues: Gays, Patriotism, and Jews.

[BurlyShirley]

Double standard? I'm quite fond of nailing the GF's behind - and sex is a fact of life, right? So it only makes sense that I should be allowed to do so in public - right? Regardless of whether you are walking along on the sidewalk with your grandmother, kids, etc... do you follow?


BigMike wasnt offended cause old ladies were out there seeing this van, he was offended because he got a view of something attrocious that our society allows. If you want it legal, to kill babies, than dont complain when you see some dead ones now and then. Dont call it offensive, call it education, so now and then you get a real idea what you're doing, and not just hearing about it or reading about it, but seeing it. Its a real thing.
I for one, am against it being paraded around on a van, yes,because of kids and that stuff, but the message makes sense to me.

[I Are Baboon]

Cool, seeing extreme activists in action like that only makes me want to vote for the candidate they are trying to bash.

[s1ngletrack]

BigMike wasnt offended cause old ladies were out there seeing this van, he was offended because he got a view of something attrocious that our society allows. If you want it legal, to kill babies, than dont complain when you see some dead ones now and then. Dont call it offensive, call it education, so now and then you get a real idea what you're doing, and not just hearing about it or reading about it, but seeing it. Its a real thing.
I for one, am against it being paraded around on a van, yes,because of kids and that stuff, but the message makes sense to me.

Agreed.

[Silver]

BigMike wasnt offended cause old ladies were out there seeing this van, he was offended because he got a view of something attrocious that our society allows. If you want it legal, to kill babies, than dont complain when you see some dead ones now and then. Dont call it offensive, call it education, so now and then you get a real idea what you're doing, and not just hearing about it or reading about it, but seeing it. Its a real thing.
I for one, am against it being paraded around on a van, yes,because of kids and that stuff, but the message makes sense to me.

I'm going to see if I can some some videos of a guy in prison on marijuana charges getting gang raped with the guards laughing in the background and start showing that outside elementary schools.

After all, something atrocious that society allows...

[binary visions]

BigMike wasnt offended cause old ladies were out there seeing this van, he was offended because he got a view of something attrocious that our society allows. If you want it legal, to kill babies, than dont complain when you see some dead ones now and then. Dont call it offensive, call it education, so now and then you get a real idea what you're doing, and not just hearing about it or reading about it, but seeing it. Its a real thing.
I for one, am against it being paraded around on a van, yes,because of kids and that stuff, but the message makes sense to me.

That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

The death penalty is legal but it doesn't mean we should have pictures of dead criminals posted on billboards.

Just because a certain act is legal doesn't mean we should see its byproduct shown to the world. There are plenty of legal activities whose result is horrific and disturbing and should not be paraded around. :rolleyes:

[BurlyShirley]

I'm going to see if I can some some videos of a guy in prison on marijuana charges getting gang raped with the guards laughing in the background and start showing that outside elementary schools.

After all, something atrocious that society allows...


Prison rape and neglect by prison guards are not legal as far as I remember.

EDIT: And besides silver, youre the one whose against censorship in any form.

[BurlyShirley]

That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

The death penalty is legal but it doesn't mean we should have pictures of dead criminals posted on billboards.

Just because a certain act is legal doesn't mean we should see its byproduct shown to the world. There are plenty of legal activities whose result is horrific and disturbing and should not be paraded around. :rolleyes:

So then, you werent one of the ones who thought the Iraqi civilian casualties should be shown on the news? Also, I just said that I was against the babies on the van so Id also be against dead criminals on billboards, but a reminder that we actually do KILL people wouldnt be bad IMO. Get us thinking about what we ACTUALLY do.

[Silver]

Prison rape and neglect by prison guards are not legal as far as I remember.

EDIT: And besides silver, youre the one whose against censorship in any form.

Legal or not, it's the status quo, right?

Actually, I don't have a problem with the truck. I think it's in bad taste, (which is also why I have more sense then to actually show a prison rape video to school kids) but I certainly don't think it should be illegal...

[BurlyShirley]

Legal or not, it's the status quo, right?
Actually, I don't have a problem with the truck. I think it's in bad taste, (which is also why I have more sense then to actually show a prison rape video to school kids) but I certainly don't think it should be illegal...

The OBVIOUS difference here is that society made a conscious decision to allow abortion. Prison rape, while awful in the very worst sense of the word, is probably a better crime deterrant than the threat of prison itself though. Just a thought.

[binary visions]

So then, you werent one of the ones who thought the Iraqi civilian casualties should be shown on the news? Also, I just said that I was against the babies on the van so Id also be against dead criminals on billboards, but a reminder that we actually do KILL people wouldnt be bad IMO. Get us thinking about what we ACTUALLY do.

Watching a news broadcast on Iraqi casualties is a choice.

Having a van drive past with dead babies painted on it is not a choice, and it is forced upon those who do not wish to be exposed to it.

You're not in the right place if you want a reminder that we kill people. That means you just want people to think about the consequences of their actions. The point here is that a very offensive and disturbing ad campaign was carried on in a public setting. What about parents that lost their children due to stillbirths, or illness? Don't you think that might be extremely upsetting to them, to see pictures like that?

The drivers of the van, and the people who put on that campaign, are fvcking idiots who cannot see past themselves and their narrow-minded approach to issues they disagree with. Perhaps they will someday experience the pain of losing a child and might then realize the consequences of their little display.

[BurlyShirley]

Watching a news broadcast on Iraqi casualties is a choice.

Having a van drive past with dead babies painted on it is not a choice, and it is forced upon those who do not wish to be exposed to it.

You're not in the right place if you want a reminder that we kill people. That means you just want people to think about the consequences of their actions. The point here is that a very offensive and disturbing ad campaign was carried on in a public setting. What about parents that lost their children due to stillbirths, or illness? Don't you think that might be extremely upsetting to them, to see pictures like that?

The drivers of the van, and the people who put on that campaign, are fvcking idiots who cannot see past themselves and their narrow-minded approach to issues they disagree with. Perhaps they will someday experience the pain of losing a child and might then realize the consequences of their little display.


You got some comprehension issues today, i see.

But...are you saying you're against this freedom of expression?
Also, you say the van drivers are idiots and all that, but do you say the same of anti-war protestors who hold up signs of dis-membered Iraqi children in front of the white house?
And yes, a picture of a dead baby probably is upsetting to people who have dead babies just like action movies are upsetting to people who lost loved ones in gunfights, which is why Im for censorship on some level...thats why I said I was against the van in the first place, but you obviously skipped over that.

[Silver]

The OBVIOUS difference here is that society made a conscious decision to allow abortion. Prison rape, while awful in the very worst sense of the word, is probably a better crime deterrant than the threat of prison itself though. Just a thought.

Ok, let's go to the Iraqi casualties then.

I've seen some pretty horrific pictures of kids with legs blown off (remember, if it's an egg and a sperm cell in an American uterus, it's sacred and a human life, if it's an Iraqi child, it's merely collateral damage...) but I still wouldn't put that up on a van with a sign that said "Bush's choices."

[Skookum]

Dead puppies aren't much fun

My puppy died
Late last fall
he's still rotting
in the hall

Dead puppies aren't much fun..... :(

[BurlyShirley]

Ok, let's go to the Iraqi casualties then.

I've seen some pretty horrific pictures of kids with legs blown off (remember, if it's an egg and a sperm cell in an American uterus, it's sacred and a human life, if it's an Iraqi child, it's merely collateral damage...) but I still wouldn't put that up on a van with a sign that said "Bush's choices."

Show them then. And see if you can quote me saying that Iraqi lives are worth less than American ones. Its a shame anytime anyone is killed and we, as society, should be mindful of what we do. Though, not in front of kids IMO.

[binary visions]

You got some comprehension issues today, i see.

But...are you saying you're against this freedom of expression?
Also, you say the van drivers are idiots and all that, but do you say the same of anti-war protestors who hold up signs of dis-membered Iraqi children in front of the white house?
And yes, a picture of a dead baby probably is upsetting to people who have dead babies just like action movies are upsetting to people who lost loved ones in gunfights, which is why Im for censorship on some level...thats why I said I was against the van in the first place, but you obviously skipped over that.

I read your comment about being against the van, so then why are you still here? And what was the comment:
If you want it legal, to kill babies, than dont complain when you see some dead ones now and then. Dont call it offensive, call it education, so now and then you get a real idea what you're doing, and not just hearing about it or reading about it, but seeing it.

...all about? Just bravado?

I reacted to your comment that apparently BigMike shouldn't have been offended or complained about this. If you're against the van, then his reaction was not out of line, and your arguments here are moot.

If you'd like to start a thread about people recognizing the consequences of their actions, fine, but your comments are being made in the context of BigMike's disgust with this van and the tactics used. I am taking them and arguing with them accordingly.

You're still not seeing the difference between paying $8 and going to see a movie where people get shot, and having a van being driven around in public, in broad daylight. There is a choice here that was taken away from the people who were forced to see the van.

Snide comments about having comprehension issues are the arguments of weak people who have no good case for their view. You've got better arguments than that, let's leave the insults out of it, okay?

[Silver]

And see if you can quote me saying that Iraqi lives are worth less than American ones.

Not you, specifically. Our entire culture is geared around the fact that our lives are worth more than Iraqi lives, or Nicaraguan lives, or Haitian lives, etc.

[BurlyShirley]

You're STILL missing it Binary.

BigMike wasnt offended by the van's location, he was offended by pictures of dead babies, which, as I said, we should all see from time to time, just like Iraqi casualties. So I ask you, are you for the censorship of such a thing? And how do you compare that to anti-war protestors with pictures of Iraqi Casualties? You against that? Im still here to actually get a coherent argument out of you i guess.

[binary visions]

You're STILL missing it Binary.

BigMike wasnt offended by the van's location, he was offended by pictures of dead babies, which, as I said, we should all see from time to time, just like Iraqi casualties. So I ask you, are you for the censorship of such a thing? And how do you compare that to anti-war protestors with pictures of Iraqi Casualties? You against that? Im still here to actually get a coherent argument out of you i guess.

Seeing as there was exactly one post by BigMike in this thread, and I've read it several times, I fail to see how you have exactly what he was offended by all figured out.

It seems to me that he was offended by the whole situation - the pictures, that they were on the van, that it was a political agenda... What you may be arguing against is one thing, but I stated above exactly what I was arguing against and it has nothing to do with censorship. It has to do with stupid people.

The fact is, I appreciate our right to free speech in this country and the issue of censorship is too vague to drive a stake into the ground and state that something is acceptable, while something else isn't. I didn't state that it should be illegal. I said that it was disgraceful, and that such an action reflects on both the intelligence and the character of the people involved.

[BurlyShirley]

.

The fact is, I appreciate our right to free speech in this country and the issue of censorship is too vague to drive a stake into the ground and state that something is acceptable, while something else isn't. I didn't state that it should be illegal. I said that it was disgraceful, and that such an action reflects on both the intelligence and the character of the people involved.


I did ask a few SPECIFIC questions you know. Answers would be cool.

[BurlyShirley]

It was a van created by the Kerry campaign to look like it was something a fringe right-wing group might come up with in order to 'trick' the weak-minded into voting for Kerry.

Inside it are Bush's forged Tx Air Nat'l Guard papers, comrade Lenin’s brain and the remains of aliens from the Roswell incident.


I thought the weak minded already were voting for kerry :eek: :D

[binary visions]

I did ask a few SPECIFIC questions you know. Answers would be cool.
:rolleyes:

I'm not answering your questions because that isn't the argument I got involved with, nor is it an argument I wish to get involved with. I'm at work and have too much to do to devote myself to arguing with you all day, much as I like to argue (I avoid the political forum usually just for that reason).

I made my other comments with a specific argument in mind... expanding it into a general censorship discussion will eat up the rest of my day :D

[BurlyShirley]

:rolleyes:

I'm not answering your questions because that isn't the argument I got involved with, nor is it an argument I wish to get involved with. I'm at work and have too much to do to devote myself to arguing with you all day, much as I like to argue (I avoid the political forum usually just for that reason).

I made my other comments with a specific argument in mind... expanding it into a general censorship discussion will eat up the rest of my day :D


I'll just notch that in the "W" column then. Thanks.

[BigMike]

OK, First, sorry for not putting this in the Political forum first. But, like everyone that makes that mistake, it ended up here anyway :)

Second, I'm so glad that so many people can read my mind :rolleyes:

I WAS offended by the van for many reasons. One of the FIRST things that popped into my head was "What about all the little kids in day care, and the children that live in the city around this school?"

I totally disagree with the "if its legal we should see it" angle. I do not think that Iraqi prisoners should be shown on TV. Like was said, the death penalty is legal, but do we see video of people in the chair getting electricuted, choking on their own tounge and throwing up in the middle of Reading Rainbow or Barney? No. Should we? No.

I don't know who funded the van, but I think that they should be taken out and beaten. Not because it offended me personally, but because of the children, because of the old people, because it is only shock appeal to try and scare people into voting for Bush.

If any of you know me personally, you know how hard I am to offend. I tell probably the most offensive jokes that most of my friends have ever heard. Who do I tell these jokes to? MY FRIENDS. People that choose to be around me, and choose to participate in the conversation. If someone doesnt like it, I'll stop, or they can leave. I dont paste the jokes on the side of my car so just anyone can go around and read them. That is what is called maturity, and respect for others.

what about the people I know that have been raped and had abortions because they were way to young and immature to have the baby. They feel bad about it every day, but know that it was the best choice because a 15 YEAR OLD is not mentally or physically ready to have a child. How do you think that makes them feel seeing this van, and somthing they did exploited.
Before I get the "well, they did it, they should be able to live with it" response, isn't there anything you've ever done that you wouldn't want plastered on the side of a van? Do you want me to take pictures of you in your most vulnerable moments and paste it on the side of a building for everyone to see and be horrified at?

I kind of went off on a tangent there, but the point is this:
I am all in favour of freedom of speech. I know going into a movie its going to be controversial. I know when I buy am Eminem CD it is going to be controversial. For those actions, I have a CHOICE in the matter, and I am prepared for it. When I am walking from class with a professor in the middle of the day on a college campus, I did not make the choice to see this, nor was I prepared.

[Changleen]

Not you, specifically. Our entire culture is geared around the fact that our lives are worth more than Iraqi lives, or Nicaraguan lives, or Haitian lives, etc.

'Most true and unrecognised by the general US populus' post of the day award! :thumb:

[BurlyShirley]

OK, First, sorry for not putting this in the Political forum first. But, like everyone that makes that mistake, it ended up here anyway :)

Second, I'm so glad that so many people can read my mind :rolleyes:

I WAS offended by the van for many reasons. One of the FIRST things that popped into my head was "What about all the little kids in day care, and the children that live in the city around this school?"



So, out of sight, out of mind is a good policy for you. Gotcha.

[BigMike]

So, out of sight, out of mind is a good policy for you. Gotcha.


Please eloborate :confused:

Do you think its good to expose kids to this kind of thing?

[jaydee]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats paid for it to make the Republicans look even worse than they already do.