Plans for North Shore Burke Park Stunts

[formerly poobah]

Hey guys, sorry i havent been posting lately, lost my password and some crazy stuff.....

Now neways what do u think should be our plans for this park...
(1) Safety Ideas
(2) Stunt regulations (i.e. height width etc.)
(3) Whos got wood?

[Sir_Crackien]

for safety ideas i think that we should put skill level signs at each stunt and a description of the stunt.

as for stunt regulations i think that the stunt should be with in a reasonable skill set. i would not setup a heigth or width regulations becuase the above safety signs would tell you if you are able to complete the stunt safely. i tihnk that there should be a max stunt height inwhink not matter what you build has to be under the set height. like set the max to 7-8 feet. but also make all of the stunt expert level of course. also we should biuld small first then biuld bigger. so we can egt the most number of people interested.

as for would most places that are biulding houses will let you take their scrap wood. trust me they will have a lot of it. it is also helpful for them because they don't have the empty their dumpster as much and that cost them less. another good thing about that would is that it is all pessure treated so it will last a long time!

this is all that i have for now i'm sure i will think up of any other thing in the future

[BigMike]

Details? What park? where? huh? :confused: I must be out of the loop.

I have some wood though, and I know how to build, so...... i'm in!

[formerly poobah]

Andre,

Yes, MORE is still interested in helping! I was waiting to hear if you had any luck contacting the park management, since you last said you were working on that. It would not do us any good to be stepping on each other, duplicating efforts at the same time.

Who have you tried to contact? If you can fill me in a little on who and where you've already tried, I'll see if I can make some progress from a different direction. Hopefully we can get some answers and figure out what the next step should be!

Nancy

[formerly poobah]

hmm thats a good idea crackien. also i think we should have what IMBA calls "low consequence high skill obstacles" that lead to the more dangerous stuff. For example low skinnies and log rides. They take technical skill but you wont get hurt to bad fallin off them. And really rooty rocky stuff before stunts.

This will help filter out people as with the lower skill riders will hopefully use disgression if they have an overly hard time on the "lead in" stuff

[Sir_Crackien]

have you contacted the county yet. the person that i know that might be accosiated with the county has been away for a while and i have not been able to contact her. if you were waiting to hear back on that before you contacted the county don't. just go ahead and contact them.

also looks like the only thing that perfromance might do is to let us post something in the store about it.

[formerly poobah]

ahh good old corporate performanece (no disrespect to u) to big for the lil guy.

bike lane says theyd help out we jsut needa ask

[formerly poobah]

i think we should begin with like a main route, and then have drop line a technical line and a high speed bsx line?

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by formerly poobah
hmm thats a good idea crackien. also i think we should have what IMBA calls "low consequence high skill obstacles" that lead to the more dangerous stuff. For example low skinnies and log rides. They take technical skill but you wont get hurt to bad fallin off them. And really rooty rocky stuff before stunts.

This will help filter out people as with the lower skill riders will hopefully use disgression if they have an overly hard time on the "lead in" stuff

That's a cool idea. :thumb:

I was going to recommend talking to the folks at The Bike Lane as they often get involved in trailbuilding stuff, but I see now you're on top of that. Good luck!

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Great Resource

Check this out... Personally I would love to see IMBA adopt something along these lines. I know they are working on it (our club has contributed quite a bit of research), but this is a very comprehensive manual.

http://www.whistlercycling.org/pdf/TrailStandardsJune2003.pdf

[formerly poobah]

dude ur my new hero

[wannabeabonedoc]

Formerly Poobah, due to distance my friends and I are a tad isolated as to help with the planning. However, we'll bring wood and labor. Just keep me updated as to how things are going and if you get a build date, we'll be there. Keep up the good work.

[Sir_Crackien]

any word from the county yet. form what i here it is best to contact the district area supervisor. fairfax is seperated into like 7 districts or so. you can find there e-mail addresses on fairfax co. website. if anyone can figure out which district southrun park is in i will contact the supervisor and ask them about the fr park. from what i hear they have a large say on what goes on in the surrounding parks.

boy does finding out this stuff take a long time!! :)

[formerly poobah]

sorry crackien

the nice lady from more said she started actually talking with the good ole fairfax landlords

if u need info fast u should prolly send emails

o i have an idea everybody send me their emails so i can get a newsletter type thing going

[formerly poobah]

furthermore what stunts would people like to see??

[Snot-Rocket]

Ha- just stumbled across this discussion- live in the local area.

As for wood, your only legal option is probably pressure treated wood- the park authority or any authority would not be privy to a temporary solution.

Wood is accessible through Home Depot, Lowes, etc. A weenie could ask for a donation, etc? I have worked with Eagle Scouts and folks like these, etc. have donated large quantities of wood. You can also look at folks who build decks professionally and work out a way to get their scraps, etc. The bottomline is pressure treated wood.

As for stunts- if you get the option, I recommend go low risk up front...i.e. stunts no higher then 1-2 feet...simple challenging things like a see saw, wheelie drops, balance beams, etc. Draft up some designs and build up a proposal...if you get to go forward with this- the Park Authority will be more amiable to these less threatening projects and once a record of safety or low risk has been established incrementally work with teh park/land manager and add riskier stuff...this also gives folks an opportunity to train up before going big.

Anyway, my 2-cents

Snot-Rocket

[formerly poobah]

stilll waiting on ms. devore

so the usuals, skinnies teeters drops and such?

[MTB_Rob_NC]

dude ur my new hero


That manual rocks doesn't it? It is even more conservative in some places than I would have thought, but for all the right reasons.

[formerly poobah]

yeh its very comprehensive and its backed up by the uber successful whistler

[formerly poobah]

what do u guys thing super fast and smooth or rooty and rough and tech

[Sir_Crackien]

if this is a question on wha we want to ride on. then i like both but i would like to see some really smooth and flowing lines. we just dont have many around here.

[rideLIKEjehu]

what do u guys thing super fast and smooth or rooty and rough and tech

please don't take this as a flame, but the spelling and grammar in this thread make me have a really hard time taking any of this seriously. i think you'd be doing your cause a giant favor by making your requests look a bit more professional.

i know it's just an internet bb, but perception here is entirely built on these words you type.

am i just old and cranky? maybe. but somewhere in the back of my head i'm thinking, "if you can't take the time to spell simple words correctly, how is anyone going to handle the massive undertaking of creating a freeride park on Fairfax Co. land?"

i'm really trying to help, i swear :)

[downy]

There's still time to delete your post if you want to rethink what you've said.

As for types of lines .... definitely fast and flowy. Not only would it be a welcome change to what east coast riding is normally like (not that tech is bad, just different), but it would be easier to get trails approved because people can always go slow and be very safe.

[formerly poobah]

Yes, thats a good point. However if we rate trails by different skill levels I'm sure we'll be able to get a good mix of trails in there without compromising safety. For example, the little kids in terrain and skate parks for snowboarding or skatebaording dont hit the vert ramp if they know they cant do it or battleship rails etc. We will have diff runs down the hill and around the area so i think we could have one downhill course, then next to it a few really techincal northshore trails flowing with skinnis and such. If skinnies are deemed unsafe we can just keep them close to the ground so if you fall you won't get hurt. Also IMBA reccomends that we use mulch and other padding devices in "fall zones" (around ladders, exits of sharp corners, etc.). I think it will be good to have some sort of variety, but keep it simple, a downhill run, a roller coastered north shore trail net with a variety of stunts, and even some djs perhaps.

[riderx]

A hint from IMBA: Don't call them stunts, refer to them as "technical trail features". It's psychological, but from a land managers perspective terms like "stunts" conjure visions of lawsuits.

Also, make sure to get a copy of the new IMBA Trailbuilding solutions book (http://www.imba.com/resources/trail_building/trail_solutions.html). Besides being a kick ass resource, you can use this to show land managers how you plan on building things and why it's the right way to do it.

[whale]

A hint from IMBA: Don't call them stunts, refer to them as "technical trail features". It's psychological, but from a land managers perspective terms like "stunts" conjure visions of lawsuits.


besides, you can get cool "feature" signs as well ;)

http://www.anti-statik.com/whale/pictures/biking/snowshoe_5_30_04/snowshoe7.jpg

[VA2SLOride]

Just saw this thread and thought I'd chime in...I lived in Springfield for 27 years and rode the hell out of it...now that I'm in CA it's good to see people actually doing something with the place. A FR park in Buke?? Hell, I might move back. Keep up the good work.

Throw in some 6-8' drops, 4' skinnies, some tabletops and decent sized gaps.

late

[formerly poobah]

thanks

[DßR]

Ha- just stumbled across this discussion- live in the local area.

As for wood, your only legal option is probably pressure treated wood- the park authority or any authority would not be privy to a temporary solution.

Wood is accessible through Home Depot, Lowes, etc. A weenie could ask for a donation, etc? I have worked with Eagle Scouts and folks like these, etc. have donated large quantities of wood. You can also look at folks who build decks professionally and work out a way to get their scraps, etc. The bottomline is pressure treated wood.



you ever ride pressure-treated stuff when it's wet?

[drt_jumper]

Pressure treated wood is good for decks but not for riding on while wet. Regular lumbar is twice as cheap and last for years upon years. No matter what you build with it will have to be maintained.

[formerly poobah]

just waiting on ms devore she says she has talke to the trail coordinater

[formerly poobah]

bump... :nopity:

[vwmtnbiker]

not to bring this one back from the dead but does anyone know what happened with this project? i'd LOVE to see some N.S. type stuff around here, we really need it bad god knows im gettin tired of drivin an hour + to the 'shed to hit some ladders.

[Greyhound]

Here's a few ideas from my personal riding spot. I've got a lot more, but I'll have to upload them at a later date as I don't have access to my camera at this moment. Most of my "features" are low-height, high-skill deals that are fun for me to go out and goof around on when I get home from work. There's lots of jumps and gaps, but the features are the most fun to ride. All of them are built out of cedar, and are burly and strong. When I first started building stuff several years ago, I built it out of 2x4's and such. They would last about two seasons before needing maintainence like new treads or supports that were rotting at the ground contact points. Then, I got smart, and started using cedar for everything. I have features out here built out of cedar that's been going strong for several seasons without any hint of needed maintainence. Where do I get all of the materials? Well....I can sure as hell tell you that I ain't paying for any of it. I go out and scan the neighborhoods for folks that have cut down cedar trees or hit up the housing developments that are being clear-cut that have cedar in them. Most contractors don't mind if you do that as long as you talk to them first. I found a lot of my cedar when the lot was being cleared for the new Wal-Mart here in town. I had to put in some sweat equity to get it cut up and hauled out, but it was worth it. Also, let your neighbors and folks in your town know that you'll cut up any cedar trees they have, and you'd be surprised how much will turn up. Just get out and drive around.....you'll find it.


The first two pics are pretty self-explanatory. The second is of one of my favorites---ya gotta hop up, ride down, and then pivot or hop over to the adjacent one, then pedal kick off. The last one is one that I call "Impossible" because it's so skinny, has multiple levels, and took about a million tries before I cleaned it.

[KPicha]

Those look like fun! I could never do that third one but the last one at least "looks" doable! :thumb:

[foxfreerider11]

not to bring this one back from the dead but does anyone know what happened with this project? i'd LOVE to see some N.S. type stuff around here, we really need it bad god knows im gettin tired of drivin an hour + to the 'shed to hit some ladders.


yeah what ever happened to this idea andre..like the county never contacted you or something.....well I'm glad to see its up and running again, we need some flowy ladders and jumps in this area. If this plan is gonna work everyone needs to stay in touch with MORE and the county, and this thread will need lots of bumps.

Good luck ill help this summer if the plan is carried through

[alterego]

not to bring this one back from the dead but does anyone know what happened with this project? i'd LOVE to see some N.S. type stuff around here, we really need it bad god knows im gettin tired of drivin an hour + to the 'shed to hit some ladders.

I've never seen you in the shed thread. When do you head up there? How about NS stuff. Can you show me?

[vwmtnbiker]

hey...yeah im relatively new to the 'monkey', i havent been to the shed in probably a month or so....i go when i can talk a couple of my buds in to goin so we can shuttle (my vw doesnt like the potholes)...honestly the thing to do is just go with a friend and start lookin, thats how i found the stunts that we usually hit...or try to hook up with a local and see if they'll show you around...i've run into a few people up there and theyre usually pretty cool about lettin a noob tag along

but still!!! when are we gonna get some NS stuff in the NOVA?!?!

anyone? anyone?

[alterego]

hey...yeah im relatively new to the 'monkey', i havent been to the shed in probably a month or so....i go when i can talk a couple of my buds in to goin so we can shuttle (my vw doesnt like the potholes)...honestly the thing to do is just go with a friend and start lookin, thats how i found the stunts that we usually hit...or try to hook up with a local and see if they'll show you around...i've run into a few people up there and theyre usually pretty cool about lettin a noob tag along

but still!!! when are we gonna get some NS stuff in the NOVA?!?!

anyone? anyone?

I'm new to Va. Trying to find places / people to ride wit'. The shed looks like the place to go. What about good bike shops near Centerville?

[Stiff]

I'm new to Va. Trying to find places / people to ride wit'. The shed looks like the place to go. What about good bike shops near Centerville?

Also check out GW forest's Elizabeth Furnace at Front Royal (interstate 66, exit 6) - good natural trailbike descents, about 1400' vert per trail. No true DH or NS stuff though but very fun nonetheless.

[bballboy388]

where r u guys trying to build stuff cause i can come and help if u need any and i would love to try some north shore stuff

[alterego]

where r u guys trying to build stuff cause i can come and help if u need any and i would love to try some north shore stuff
We need to hear from our threads leading expert on NS, vwmtnbkr, this guy can bomb and he knows stuff. I was trying to get him to take me to the shed where he shreds.

[vwmtnbiker]

We need to hear from our threads leading expert on NS, vwmtnbkr, this guy can bomb and he knows stuff. I was trying to get him to take me to the shed where he shreds.

and you would be?

[Sir_Crackien]

THIS tread is dead let i die in peace!! this thread brings back bad memories for many people (me included in that)

[Paris]

Could Sir Crackien and alterego be the same dude?

[DßR]

THIS tread is dead let i die in peace!! this thread brings back bad memories for many people (me included in that)

what bad memories? Did you guys get dissed bad on that idea? Nobody ever posted anything about what was happening on this "project".

[Sir_Crackien]

we got dissed in a very bad way. poobah and i put about 4 solid and hard week into the progect and talked to all the right people. ever to MORE and that is were is all went wrong. them said that they would talk to the proper people and appaerntly they never did. that wrote letters to use saying that they were getting some were and then the letters just stop appering! nothing saying that the idea fell though or anything. they just stop trying it they ever really tried in the first place!

we really put alot of work into the thing for a negetive result. that would be that they now look for these trail in the porposed areas. so there is NO possiblity to ever just biuld them anyway. don't ever try because poobahs' and my names are all over that kinda stuff

[mtbmore]

I am the outgoing President of MORE and have been involved with the discussion with you all at South Run. Nancy Devore the MORE Advocacy Director gave you guys some specific names of people to contact and what needed to be done. MORE, in case you did not know it is an all volunteer organization made up of all kinds of MTB'ers XC DH FR etc. We have information but not always the people or the time to do it for you. If you want to pursue Freeride in Fairfax County contact me Scott Scudamore mtbmore <at> comcast <dot> net. I will give you the names again of the people you need to contact and who in MORE might be able to help you (if they have time and cycles). The bottom line is if you want something to happen you will have to do it yourself. We have legitimacy in Fairfax County, liability insurance and non-profit status. We can give all that to you but most of the effort has to come from you or the people that want to make South Run a reality.

:)

[NoCoastFreeride]

We've built a ton of stunts out this way (in Colorado). But my advice is to but up a no trespassing sign just to cover your bases insurance wise. I don't know how that would fly if you were to get sued, though. I'm sure DBR could throw together a waiver for ya :)

Heres a link to some pics. I think the plans are still down on paper, so if you need help i could get my buddy to scan them for ya... http://www.pounderracing.com/gallery/stunts

good luck.

-Eric

[riderx]

MORE, in case you did not know it is an all volunteer organization made up of all kinds of MTB'ers XC DH FR etc. We have information but not always the people or the time to do it for you.

The bottom line is if you want something to happen you will have to do it yourself. We have legitimacy in Fairfax County, liability insurance and non-profit status. We can give all that to you but most of the effort has to come from you or the people that want to make South Run a reality.
Worth repeating.

[Sir Happypants]

i started this thread a while back adn this is how the story goes....

we (crackien especially and others included) had the idea and the gumption to start building north shore stunt parks in the area. we did all the right steps contacted IMBA who told us to contact more. we even got in personal contact with a certain ms nancy devore. alot of people were supportive and it seems there were many other plans already in place to put freeriding in this area legally. however someone somewhere dropped the ball, it seems right at the height of the planning situation (there was even a council meeting on the introduction of freeride parks into the area with IMBA and MORE) i went to Utah. When i returned i never ehard a thing about the aprks again, ms devore wouldnt answer any emails and the dream was dead.... its dead now the people who began this idea have already given up long ago. there is no more orginizational effort behind this idea... sorry

[Sir Happypants]

and i never got any specific names.... and if i didnt get them nobody did

[bballboy388]

you guys blow just giving up like that

[Sir Happypants]

yo man no offense you cant say that when you know what youre talkign about but we legitamately ran into "this will not happen" from the county and since its on county land what they say goes. and neways you dont know how hard crackien and i tried so don't act like we didn't put up our end.

[Sir Happypants]

this shouldn't even be argued anymore, if anyone wants to try again by all means do, and ill be one of the first people to back you up but as for this specific attempt its over... but hey no one ever wins ont he first try...

[foxfreerider11]

you guys blow just giving up like that


yeah you really have no idea what you are talking about...........

[Sir Happypants]

bird man burrrrr

[bighitrider788]

yo...lets ride at my place some time...i'll have as many as yall as want to come...we got some stuff here but i need a good build day at my place. pm me if you want to come out here. oh yeah i live in powhatan va...its about an hour and a half from culpepper...and brian...best of luck at the burke farm as well.