a can of whoopass opened up in gaza - now what?

[$tinkle]

reuters reports: (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5179364)Israel Kills 16 Palestinians in Big Gaza Raid

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Israeli forces killed at least 16 Palestinians Tuesday in the heaviest raid on the Gaza Strip for years as tanks and infantry thrust into a militant stronghold despite an international outcry.

The assault on the Rafah refugee camp, by one of the largest Israeli forces in action since the start of a Palestinian uprising in 2000, drew condemnation because of threats to destroy hundreds of Palestinian homes in the occupied territory.

But the army said there were no plans for any systematic demolition during what it called an open-ended operation to stop the smuggling of weapons through tunnels from Egypt.
seems there are more than just a few israelis (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/14/1084289891075.html)who want to pull all the settlers out of gaza, especially after the bloodiest 2 week period in memory.

my understanding of Gaza goes only a little further than what is provided by the CIA factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gz.html), so how is it that the west bank & gaza were agreed upon to be the palestian areas? Also, why are there jewish settlers there? To whom was Gaza promised? is it part of the geographical area of israeal (to include the west bank)?

[N8]

Sweet... an IDF Smackdown...!

[Toshi]

how can the israeli govt do this and not expect reprisals? shooting missiles into gaza, ringing communities and bulldozing them wholesale... :dead:

The Israeli military destroyed almost 100 houses in the camp last week, leaving 1,100 people homeless, before being stopped by a temporary court injunction.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3725161.stm

does ANYONE think this is a way to a lasting peace?

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
how can the israeli govt do this and not expect reprisals? shooting missiles into gaza, ringing communities and bulldozing them wholesale... :dead:what do you suggest the IDF do? From a military perspective, it's better to fight on your terms, on their turf. Yes, i acknowledge the IDF is an overwhelming force (& remind the refugees of that constantly). If all the settlers pulled out of gaza, would that buy the peace?...and for how long?

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Toshi
how can the israeli govt do this and not expect reprisals? shooting missiles into gaza, ringing communities and bulldozing them wholesale... :dead:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3725161.stm

does ANYONE think this is a way to a lasting peace?
well, considering Arafat called for an increase in their Jihad and to step up the terrorism... :rolleyes:
http://www.truthnews.net/world/2004050091.htm

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by LordOpie
well, considering Arafat called for an increase in their Jihad and to step up the terrorism... :rolleyes:
http://www.truthnews.net/world/2004050091.htm arafat's insane.
of all the tragedy of the last 2 weeks that will no doubt serve to further enlist martyrs, i don't see why (as you suggested a month ago) the IDF hasn't bombed the piss out of ramalah & taken this uber-terrorist out. Surely no greater outrage from the arab street would come of doing this than what has happened in the last week. I look at the 3,000 houses that have been razed since this last intifada, and that approach obviously hasn't stemmed the tide of arms & explosives smuggling, nor has it caused a rising up among the refugees to cleanse from within. arafat serves no purpose but to purloin "his people".

everytime he says, "zionist", i think "boogeyman".

what a dick.

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by N8
Sweet... an IDF Smackdown...!

Yeah the IDF rocks.

I wouldn't mess with an armed force that can trace it's linage back to the "Armies of the Living God of Isreal".

[Toshi]

Originally posted by $tinkle
what do you suggest the IDF do? From a military perspective, it's better to fight on your terms, on their turf. Yes, i acknowledge the IDF is an overwhelming force (& remind the refugees of that constantly). If all the settlers pulled out of gaza, would that buy the peace?...and for how long?
i think if gaza and the west bank were ceded to the palestinians, and the general oppression (the wall) were toned down the suicide bombings would become less frequent. but i'm not a foreign policy specialist, so i don't know if there are fringe groups on either side -- actually, there almost undoubtedly are -- that wouldn't like this above scenario, thinking it's too much or not enough...

i do know that razing houses is a good way to recruit martyrs. :dead:

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Toshi
i think if gaza and the west bank were ceded to the palestinians, and the general oppression (the wall) were toned down the suicide bombings would become less frequent.
nope, they want to completely and thoroughly remove Israel from the map. They've said so many times... go googling.

I say it again... if you or anyone is upset about what's going on, you should be mad primarily at the Arab World for using the Palestinians as pawns in their game of destruction.

[Toshi]

Originally posted by LordOpie
nope, they want to completely and thoroughly remove Israel from the map. They've said so many times... go googling.

I say it again... if you or anyone is upset about what's going on, you should be mad primarily at the Arab World for using the Palestinians as pawns in their game of destruction.
maybe arafat wants that, but i don't think that's the sentiment of the palestinian people as a whole. if you want i can provide some books by moderate, educated palestinians that call for peace, not annihiliation of israel, just in case you find their existence preposterous.

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Toshi
maybe arafat wants that, but i don't think that's the sentiment of the palestinian people as a whole. if you want i can provide some books by moderate, educated palestinians that call for peace, not annihiliation of israel, just in case you find their existence preposterous.
I'm guessing you didn't read the second paragraph of my post?

"People are people so why should it be that you and I should get along so awfully."

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
if you want i can provide some books by moderate, educated palestinians that call for peace, not annihiliation of israelsure would be nice if they were in the hands of the PA & philosophies therein applied.

but, back to my original query, does anyone here think the settlers should unilaterally & unconditionally pull out of gaza? If so, how can they [israelis] then protect themselves from martyrs & other freaks who want to erradicate the jewish nation, and who are undoubtedly supplied via tunnels from egypt?

[sshappy]

Originally posted by LordOpie
well, considering Arafat called for an increase in their Jihad and to step up the terrorism... :rolleyes:
http://www.truthnews.net/world/2004050091.htm

Nice link... don't forget that the literal translation of Jihad is 'struggle' rather than the oft-used 'Holy War'.

There is of course also such things as this:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

And this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0837351.html

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arafat was elected president of the Palestinian-controlled territory in 1996. In the same year the PLO formally revoked all clauses in its founding charter that called for the dissolution of Israel, and Arafat pledged to fight terrorism.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also bear in mind that Hamas and Hezbollah (amongst many) are not part of or respectful of the PLO or the PA. Arafat has arrested members of these organisations.

NB: I am not an apologist for terrorist actions and I condemn them unconditionally. From any source.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by sshappy
Nice link... don't forget that the literal translation of Jihad is 'struggle' rather than the oft-used 'Holy War'.and 'mein kampf' means 'my struggle', a book used to make the aryan race pure at the cost of millions of jews. Excellent parallel even i didn't realize til now. Brilliantly played.Originally posted by sshappy
There is of course also such things as this:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

And this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0837351.html
ok, that's a little more perspective - much appreciated. Answering Islam has a long-winded discertation on jihad (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Bailey/jihad.html) - this'll take up the rest of my week easily. secularislam.org (http://www.secularislam.org/jihad/exegesis.htm) was not as favorable in describing jihad.

[fluff]

Originally posted by $tinkle
and 'mein kampf' means 'my struggle'

I don't know if you're aware of this but in English, Struggle means struggle, War means war, and Genocide means genocide.

Odd how foreign words mean something terrible in English, but English words don't anymore.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by fluff
I don't know if you're aware of this but in English, Struggle means struggle, War means war, and Genocide means genocide.

Odd how foreign words mean something terrible in English, but English words don't anymore. what's the proper caption for this cute little photo (in arabic, please, so nothing gets lost in translation)

http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/images/childsuicidebomber1.jpg

perhaps she should turn her hand around for your benefit.

[fluff]

Do you understand your sig?

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by fluff
Do you understand your sig?
elaborate... cuz I don't understand how strapping explosives to kids correlates to anything.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by fluff
Do you understand your sig? arafat's a terrorist?

so don't negotiate.
erradicate.

lather.
rinse.
repeat.

[Westy]

Originally posted by $tinkle
http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/images/childsuicidebomber1.jpg

perhaps she should turn her hand around for your benefit.

I can't read Arabic but from what the little girl is wearing around her waist Arafat is endorsing some brand of industrial sized tampons.

[Toshi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3728681.stm

Reuters news agency quoted the UN special human rights envoy in the Palestinian territories, John Dugard, as saying that the strikes were "war crimes" and amounted to collective punishment violating humanitarian and international human rights law.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3729511.stm

[$tinkle]

it's truly getting bizzare:Ostrich Roams Besieged Gaza Camp from Broken Zoo

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Palestinian boys chased a limping ostrich through a Gaza refugee camp Thursday after an Israeli raid spelled disaster for a zoo that was a rare amusement spot for local children.

Residents said it had been a tiny, spartan affair hosting two ostriches, an array of colorful parrots and other exotic birds, some snakes, one monkey -- and a pony painted with black stripes to make it look like a zebra.

"The demolished houses made me angry when I heard about it on the news, but the zoo was the only place where I could go with my friends to play and watch these strange animals," said Mohammed, a 12-year-old running after the ostrich.

reuters (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5207738)

[Transcend]

now being a proud owner of a political science degree with a specilization in international politics, i feel i can now comment on this properly.


THEY ARE ALL NUTS! :p

Ok seriously tho, no matter who does what for peace, the fighting will nto stop. Their is a deep seated hatred there that no talks/negotiations or anything else will be able to break through in our generation.

Sad but true i believe. :(