Muslims just seem to hate everyone everywhere...

[LordOpie]

Nigeria: Hundreds of Christians Die in Bloody Massacres

Many hundreds of innocent Christians have died in Kano since a Muslim protest turned into carnage in retaliation for Muslim deaths hundreds of miles away in Yelwe. Members of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) say some 600 Christians have been killed so far this week in Kano, Nigeria’s second-largest city. Andrew Ubah, the general secretary of the association in Kano, told Reuters on Thursday 13 May that he was keeping a tally based on reports from church leaders throughout the city. “Almost 600 people have been killed and 12 churches burned,” he said.

David Emmanuel, a factory worker told Reuters he saw two truckloads of corpses on Wednesday night, and he counted at least 30 bodies in the street. Elsewhere, correspondents have seen 35 mostly burned and mutilated bodies.

The official police tally of 30 that remains more or less static from Wednesday night is belied by the overflowing morgue and the constant stream of eye-witness reports from all quarters of the city. Bodies were being discovered on Thursday and because the main hospital mortuary was full were taken to undisclosed locations, according to the Red Cross. “Not all cases are reported, especially cases in which relatives have already buried their dead,” said Aminu Inua, a Red Cross official in Kano.

“Hundreds of people were killed,” said Christian leader Mark Amani. “Some corpses were burned in wells. Even little children were killed. The bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and their bodies burned,” he said.

Sources report the killing of several hundred people when defiant mobs of Muslim youths armed with clubs and machetes and cutlasses rampaged at about 1 a.m. on Thursday despite a police imposed curfew. Mobs went from house to house looking for Christian victims and in some cases trapped the occupants inside and torched the houses. Police have been issued orders to shoot armed rioters on sight. While Muslims have complained that the police have killed innocent civilians as a result, they do not mean the scores of hacked bodies that lie in the streets and in charred buildings and vehicles according to residents.

There are fears that the number of deaths may continue to grow since an order was circulated by Umar Ibrahim Kabo, the most senior Mulim cleric in Kano, for all Christians to leave the area by today, Friday 14 May. More than 30,000 residents, mostly Christians, have been driven from their homes in Kano officials said on Thursday, a figure confirmed by Archbishop Josiah Idowu-Fearon in a telephone conversation with Barnabas Fund.

Barnabas Fund wishes to announce an urgent appeal to support the survivors, those displaced from their homes and the families of Christian victims in Kano. You can make a donation to help the pastors, their families and their churches through a Barnabas Fund office or via our website donation page. Remember to specify Project 39-500.

[$tinkle]

uhhh...hate to be a bother, but i thought this forum was "political debate".

what's to debate?

[Serial Midget]

Copy McPastie strikes again... :think:

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by $tinkle
uhhh...hate to be a bother, but i thought this forum was "political debate".

what's to debate?
Originally posted by N8
Why oh why does everyone hate Bush? Darned liberals... waaaah :(

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Copy McPastie strikes again... :think:
are you asking for the link? http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001945.php

or why I pasted it? ... I'm disappointed at how a story of this magnitude gets absolutely zero coverage in US media.

[Toshi]

Originally posted by LordOpie
are you asking for the link? http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001945.php

or why I pasted it? ... I'm disappointed at how a story of this magnitude gets absolutely zero coverage in US media.
http://search.cnn.com/cnn/search?source=cnn&invocationType=search%2Fbottom&sites=cnn&query=nigeria

zero coverage, eh? :rolleyes:

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
http://search.cnn.com/cnn/search?source=cnn&invocationType=search%2Fbottom&sites=cnn&query=nigeria

zero coverage, eh? :rolleyes: ok, asymptotically approaches zero

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Originally posted by $tinkle
Originally posted by N8

dude, did you just N8 me?

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Toshi
http://search.cnn.com/cnn/search?source=cnn&invocationType=search%2Fbottom&sites=cnn&query=nigeria

zero coverage, eh? :rolleyes:
so you're more concerned with whether or not I've seen it in the media than the actual story itself?

Yeah, I trolled ya with that "zero coverage" thing.

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by $tinkle
dude, did you just N8 me?
well, you said there was nothing to debate... that's like dinner bells for N8 to come running and post something partisan. So I beat him to it :p

[Toshi]

Originally posted by LordOpie
so you're more concerned with whether or not I've seen it in the media than the actual story itself?

Yeah, I trolled ya with that "zero coverage" thing.
the link and text you posted are propaganda. "innocent christians" :rolleyes: . the truth is that both sides have been slaughtering each other for a really stupid reason, religion, for quite some time now.

:rolleyes: / :devil:

[N8]

This is all Bush's fault. I want to know what did he know and when did he know it.

Also, John Ashcroft should resign!



HILLARY/BILL in 04!
:thumb:

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
the link and text you posted are propaganda. "innocent christians" :rolleyes: . the truth is that both sides have been slaughtering each other for a really stupid reason, religion, for quite some time now.

:rolleyes: / :devil: so, if it's on CNN, it's not propoganda, but if the same story appears on jihadwatch it is propoganda.

did i get that right?

i got 769 hits on google news (http://news.google.com/news?q=%22Christians%22+nigeria&num=30&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn)

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
"innocent christians" :rolleyes: and these b|tches were just asking for it, right?The bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and their bodies burned

[Slugman]

Originally posted by $tinkle
so, if it's on CNN, it's not propoganda, but if the same story appears on jihadwatch it is propoganda.

did i get that right?

i got 769 hits on google news (http://news.google.com/news?q=%22Christians%22+nigeria&num=30&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn)

If anyone else other than N8 post it, it's commie pinko liberal crybaby propaganda...

If N8 post it... it's a fact.

[N8]

Originally posted by $tinkle
and these b|tches were just asking for it, right?


:dead: .... sounds like something the Crusaders did in the the dark ages...

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by N8
:dead: .... sounds like something the Crusaders did in the the dark ages...
so you're saying that we as a species have made zero progress since then? :(

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by LordOpie
so you're saying that we as a species have made zero progress since then? :(

We have guns now. Now you can kill infidels much more efficiently.

[valve bouncer]

Well Opie, this persecution has been going on for years and it hasn't always been the Christians as victims. Goggle Biafra, pretty nasty there mate, the Muslims seemed to come off second best in that little skirmish.

[Toshi]

Originally posted by $tinkle
so, if it's on CNN, it's not propoganda, but if the same story appears on jihadwatch it is propoganda.

did i get that right?

i got 769 hits on google news (http://news.google.com/news?q=%22Christians%22+nigeria&num=30&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn)
would cnn have an article making a point of the INNOCENT christians? no. case closed. such hyperbole is why i called it propaganda.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Toshi
would cnn have an article making a point of the INNOCENT christians? no. case closed. such hyperbole is why i called it propaganda. wow.
i must've missed the hyperbole. What parts were exaggerated? Was it:
- "The bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and their bodies burned", because actually they were cut, & then simmered?
- Or "Almost 600 people have been killed", because the number was actually 593?
- Or, "he counted at least 30 bodies in the street", because the number was in fact exactly 30?

where have i been led by the nosering to blindly swallow the "propaganda"?

let's just cut to the chase: you don't like to hear stories of the christian plight, or of those of the nation of israel, or any enemy of Islam? Isn't this really closer to the truth?

[llkoolkeg]

How sickening that one human could kill another in the name of our creator, so matter how you define "him".

How about we pass legislation to make killing in the name of our creator a hate crime? Maybe we could bring this up at the next convening of the UN Security Council? :rolleyes:

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by $tinkle
let's just cut to the chase: you don't like to hear stories of the christian plight, or of those of the nation of israel, or any enemy of Islam? Isn't this really closer to the truth?
:eek:

[sshappy]

This thread is utter trash.

The violence in Nigeria is between ethnic groups who happen to have different religions, it is not religion based. This was also not an isolated incident:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armed members of the predominantly Christian Tarok ethnic group on May 2 attacked the town of Yelwa, in the southern part of Plateau State, apparently in reprisal for earlier attacks against Taroks by members of the predominantly Muslim Fulani ethnic group. Local sources described the attack on Yelwa, where the majority of the population is Fulani, as devastating.

Several hundred people were killed according to credible accounts based on the testimonies of local residents, although an accurate death toll is not yet available. The perpetrators used fire arms and machetes, and the victims were buried in several mass graves. There was also widespread destruction in the town. Thousands of inhabitants of Yelwa have been displaced, and the area has become extremely polarized.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Source Human Rights Watch)

This violence has been occuring for quite a while now, with interethnic genocide prevalent in both directions, but it's par for the course that the first time it gets noticed in the West is when there is violence against Christians by Muslims, regardless of historical perspective or genuine motivation.

It is very disturbing that it should be posted here under such a provocative title. However it may have been reported at CNN it has quickly degenerated into propaganda here.


I wonder how many people here have more than a passing acquaintance with any Muslims on a personal level. I would suggest that those who don't should make some effort to gain some perspective by meeting ordinary Muslims, they really aren't that different from anyone else...

[Toshi]

Originally posted by $tinkle
wow.
i must've missed the hyperbole. What parts were exaggerated? Was it:
- "The bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and their bodies burned", because actually they were cut, & then simmered?
- Or "Almost 600 people have been killed", because the number was actually 593?
- Or, "he counted at least 30 bodies in the street", because the number was in fact exactly 30?

where have i been led by the nosering to blindly swallow the "propaganda"?

let's just cut to the chase: you don't like to hear stories of the christian plight, or of those of the nation of israel, or any enemy of Islam? Isn't this really closer to the truth?
hyperbole: INNOCENT CHRISTIANS. need i repeat this phrase? why it is hyperbole: as noted in the post above mine and hinted at in my link to cnn's coverage of this ongoing, two-sided issue, both sides slaughter each other with regularity.

turning an article about a particular instance of this conflict into the ridiculous assertion that "muslims just seem to hate everyone everywhere" is positively ridiculous.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by sshappy
This thread is utter trash.now, it certainly is.

by your reasoning al-qaeda is comprised of predominantly middle-eastern folks who just happen to be muslim, who are violently anti-western, which happens to be christian.

i think i get it now - thanks, jeeves!Originally posted by sshappy
This violence has been occuring for quite a while now, with interethnic genocide prevalent in both directions, but it's par for the course that the first time it gets noticed in the West is when there is violence against Christians by Muslims, regardless of historical perspective or genuine motivation.so, i'm a bad person if i pay less attention to the 9 yr old girl being sexually exploited in thailand than the western backpacker who gets tortured to death for "being a spy of the CIA"? I can better related to the latter. I believe this is what best explains the "bias"Originally posted by sshappy
It is very disturbing that it should be posted here under such a provocative title. However it may have been reported at CNN it has quickly degenerated into propaganda here.yes, because certainly the same would never happen under the watchful eye of al-jazeera & the vast majority of the middle east
Originally posted by sshappy
I wonder how many people here have more than a passing acquaintance with any Muslims on a personal level. I would suggest that those who don't should make some effort to gain some perspective by meeting ordinary Muslims, they really aren't that different from anyone else... while that may be true, i'm certainly not discounted just because i may not have a personal story like yours:     "one time, at terrorist camp..."

[valve bouncer]

Stinkle it's one thing to miss the point because, a-la N8 you just don't have it goin' on upstairs, it's quite another for an erstwhile semi-coherent poster to deliberately and provactively miss the point. Try harder, decent points have been made. Non-sequitirs about Al-jezeera and 9 year old Thai kids is pretty weak.

[sshappy]

Originally posted by $tinkle
now, it certainly is.

by your reasoning al-qaeda is comprised of predominantly middle-eastern folks who just happen to be muslim, who are violently anti-western, which happens to be christian.

i think i get it now - thanks, jeeves!so, i'm a bad person if i pay less attention to the 9 yr old girl being sexually exploited in thailand than the western backpacker who gets tortured to death for "being a spy of the CIA"? I can better related to the latter. I believe this is what best explains the "bias"yes, because certainly the same would never happen under the watchful eye of al-jazeera & the vast majority of the middle east
while that may be true, i'm certainly not discounted just because i may not have a personal story like yours:     "one time, at terrorist camp..."

Yeah, as VB says, try posting something of relevance.

As terrorists/al qaeda/thai girls/backpackers/CIA/al jazeera/the entire middle east/your personal value system (etc.) were not mentioned in my post maybe you are getting a little confused.

Of course all Muslims are evil and all Christians are good. Better?

[N8]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
a-la N8


Its ALWAYS about me ain't it..?

You are obsessed.


*cough*
*cough*
*gay*
*cough*
*cough*


:monkey:

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by sshappy
Yeah, as VB says, try posting something of relevance. :yawn:
that's it? okey dokey then.Originally posted by sshappy
As terrorists/al qaeda/thai girls/backpackers/CIA/al jazeera/the entire middle east/your personal value system (etc.) were not mentioned in my post maybe you are getting a little confused.the spirit of this thread is that muslims seem to hate everyone, everywhere. To wit, you may be bristling at this notion, but the arab street certainly is not motivated to dispute the elephant in the room.

there was a peace protest scheduled last week, sponsored by a muslim group, in the hopes of denouncing muslim extremism. But, guess what actually happened? It turned into a bash bush fest.

check it (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0515muslim15.html) (sponsored by none other than CAIR - feh!)

[sshappy]

Originally posted by $tinkle
:the spirit of this thread is that muslims seem to hate everyone, everywhere.
check it (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0515muslim15.html) (sponsored by none other than CAIR - feh!)

For every link you post I could post an alternative view so there is little point in that. I'm sure you can find them yourself should you ever desire to see both sides of the question, or even attempt to find a realistic approximation of the truth.

If the spirit of this thread is as you suggest then that says just as much about those perceiving as those being perceived.

If I were to say that all US citizens seem to hate muslims everywhere it would be an equally stupid, ill-informed and inaccurate statement, even if it appeared to be true to you.

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by N8
Its ALWAYS about me ain't it..?

You are obsessed.


*cough*
*cough*
*gay*
*cough*
*cough*


:monkey:
I dunno what it is, but when I think stupid, whammo, N8 just pops into my head. Weird, isn't it.:rolleyes:

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by sshappy
For every link you post I could post an alternative view so there is little point in that. I'm sure you can find them yourself should you ever desire to see both sides of the question, or even attempt to find a realistic approximation of the truth.

If the spirit of this thread is as you suggest then that says just as much about those perceiving as those being perceived.

If I were to say that all US citizens seem to hate muslims everywhere it would be an equally stupid, ill-informed and inaccurate statement, even if it appeared to be true to you.

Well said :D

[LordOpie]

http://63.105.21.22/fark/mosque.jpg

[valve bouncer]

That's pretty offensive Lord Opie.:(

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by sshappy
For every link you post I could post an alternative view so there is little point in that. I'm sure you can find them yourself should you ever desire to see both sides of the question, or even attempt to find a realistic approximation of the truth.

If the spirit of this thread is as you suggest then that says just as much about those perceiving as those being perceived.

If I were to say that all US citizens seem to hate muslims everywhere it would be an equally stupid, ill-informed and inaccurate statement, even if it appeared to be true to you. so what you're saying is, you're all out of ammo? If you truly believe you can find a significant number protesting against muslim extremism - whether it's in the arab street or domestically - then man-up & do it.

i desire to see the truth. So i look to see if side A is equally represented by side B. it ain't. and i've posted my defense. and i'll continue.

here's my perception: save for oklahoma city, all major terrorist attacks of the past decade in the West have been carried out by immigrants. A closer look finds that these were not just any immigrants but invariably from a specific background: of the 212 suspected and convicted terrorist perpetrators during 1993-2003, 86 percent were Muslim immigrants and the remainder mainly converts to Islam. This is a growing problem in europe, cuz most of them relegate muslims to 2nd class status (or worse), which leads to radicalism. Check out france's festering problem WRT how they "handle" muslims.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
That's pretty offensive Lord Opie.:( i know, but i'm sure the missing snipers in the minarets was an innocent oversight.

[BurlyShirley]

oh man...

[Just Lookin'...]

just out of curiosity, what other groups have subscribed to terrorism and what are the similarities between the groups?

such as the myriad and diverse groups in the African continent? The Catholics vs. the Protestants in Europe? [not just Eire, btw. - remember the Huguenots?]

my opinion, which could be wrong, is that it's not the Muslim faith that hates the Christian West, its the Have-nots vs. the Have-too-much's.

Yes, there are parts of Islam that lend themselves to violence. Oh boy, there are just such things in Christendom, too. Did not the Crusades teach us that? And what about the Nazi's? Sadly, for the whole world, they were Christians. Add to that the horrendous treatment of the natives of North and South America because for centuries the official mouthpiece of the largest majority of Christians described these indigenous people as 'bereft of souls' and therefore killable-without-sin.

in short, it's not the religion, folks. it's the society. an as long as some people think it's okay to kill people - any people - to make a 'point' - we've got to watch our backs. but maybe, just maybe, reducing world poverty with say, education and industry, might make life for some of these enemies too valuable to just 'throw away' in a suicide bombing or similar destructive behavior.

like i said earlier, it's just an opinion.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...
.
.
.
.
like i said earlier, it's just an opinion. and seems well thought out to me.

but, that's just my opinion of your opinion.

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...

but maybe, just maybe, reducing world poverty with say, education and industry, might make life for some of these enemies too valuable to just 'throw away' in a suicide bombing or similar destructive behavior.

like i said earlier, it's just an opinion.

I think that the religion is so strong in that culture that you're always going to have some kind of fanaticism. I mean, all religions do, but arent you bound by islam to detest all non muslims? I can think of numerous threads on RM (which is all Im going off of here) where that seemed to be the case. Industry might help the little guy, but isnt it the wealthy ones that are the head terrorists right now, anyway? Your opinion seems well intentioned, but it doesnt fix the crux of the problem.

...and really, if i HONESTLY BELIEVED that I'd get 72 virgins for blowing myself up...I might do it too.

[Jeremy R]

Yep, its not religion, politics, etc... fault.
The fault lies in the fact that we human beings.
And human beings kill other human beings.
They always have and they always will.
Rich, poor, black, white, smart, dumb, they all kill one another.
All from different religious, ethnic, and political backgrounds.
You can blame this and that all day long.
But violence is something that the whole human race has hardwired into them.
Sometimes it can be avoided or made less severe by things like education and lowering poverty levels etc....
But it will NEVER be eliminated.
And now technology has made it us way better at it.
Typing this is depressing.:(
I am going for a ride.

[sshappy]

Originally posted by $tinkle
so what you're saying is, you're all out of ammo?

Is this just a propaganda battle to you? You say you desire to see the truth but all your posts are one-sided and often inflammatory.

Whether you can provide more propaganda to support your views than someone else can to support the counterpoint does not prove that you are right. Given that the information age and culture is overwhelmingly dominated by the western world and predominantly the US you will find more pro-western anti-muslim propaganda to support the 'Islam is evil' position. Beyond demonstrating the power of propaganda it proves nothing.

Of course, if you're trolling then the truth becomes secondary.

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by sshappy
Whether you can provide more propaganda to support your views than someone else can to support the counterpoint does not prove that you are right. Given that the information age and culture is overwhelmingly dominated by the western world and predominantly the US you will find more pro-western anti-muslim propaganda i believe you're blurring the lines between fact & propaganda. The number of arizona protesters, the number convicted of terrorism, france having a rough time in handling their growing muslim population who demand fair representation & basic human rights, and the silent arab street are absolutely verifiable. How unfortunate you dismiss that which is unpleasant as propaganda.Originally posted by sshappy
...to support the 'Islam is evil' position.this is simply reductio ad absurdum - it's the terrorists who are evil, for 2 primary reasons: they kill non-combatants & they have hijacked islam (pun very much intended)