oh hell, 2005 LX to get dual-control shifters

[rockracing]

why are they doing this ? I think I will def. go the sram route nest time, loving their chain and cassette at the mo.

I just like thing separate, If I bend my brake lever, get new brake levers, nice and simple.

[indieboy]

Originally posted by rockracing
why are they doing this ? I think I will def. go the sram route nest time, loving their chain and cassette at the mo.

I just like thing separate, If I bend my brake lever, get new brake levers, nice and simple.

everyone bitches about bending or breaking their brake levers. honestly how many of you actually have, i mean seriously?!?!? just don't tighten the bolt all the way down so if you DO hit anything your entire shifter will just rotate a bit.

[oldfart]

Actually, I have bent levers. Just once because I hit pretty hard. But with integrated shifters, it might be less likely to happen because they move. Rather than bend it will shift. And besides, Shimano sell brake levers alone if you do bend one.

It might not be for every one but you won't know unless you try it. I mean really try it. Once around the block won't do it. I love it. And the only shifter I haven't tried are the new SRAM triggers. I think for us with short fingers, integrated works better.

Something I find funny is how vehemently opposed some people get to anything Shimano. Its like they dislike Shimano because they are big. Now that SRAM are starting to own and buy up everything not Shimano, what are you guys gonna do? They bought Sedis, Sachs-Huret, Rock Shox and now Avid. They are almost a monopoly. We better start hating them too.

[Echo]

Originally posted by oldfart
Something I find funny is how vehemently opposed some people get to anything Shimano. Its like they dislike Shimano because they are big. Now that SRAM are starting to own and buy up everything not Shimano, what are you guys gonna do? They bought Sedis, Sachs-Huret, Rock Shox and now Avid. They are almost a monopoly. We better start hating them too.
My problem with Shimano is not just that they are "big".

The problem is that they specifically design every product to work only with their products. You want Shimano cranks, you need a Shimano bottom bracket. You want to use hydro brakes with their shifters, you gotta use their brakes. The list goes on.

Remember when they refused to license Octalink to other crankset manufacturers? That's why ISIS exists.

They are digging their own grave.

[Squeak]

Originally posted by Echo
My problem with Shimano is not just that they are "big".

The problem is that they specifically design every product to work only with their products. You want Shimano cranks, you need a Shimano bottom bracket. You want to use hydro brakes with their shifters, you gotta use their brakes. The list goes on.

Remember when they refused to license Octalink to other crankset manufacturers? That's why ISIS exists.

They are digging their own grave.

Agreed. I heard that the next generation Shimano will need bike manufactures to modify designs for the stuff to work. :eek:

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by oldfart
Something I find funny is how vehemently opposed some people get to anything Shimano. Its like they dislike Shimano because they are big. Now that SRAM are starting to own and buy up everything not Shimano, what are you guys gonna do? They bought Sedis, Sachs-Huret, Rock Shox and now Avid. They are almost a monopoly. We better start hating them too.

I like Shimano but don't care too much for the dual control shifters. I'm certainly not going to spend a bunch of money on them and use them for a while on the chance that they might grow on me in a while.

Shimano takes the force feed approach with their products.

[Skookum]

Originally posted by indieboy
everyone bitches about bending or breaking their brake levers. honestly how many of you actually have, i mean seriously?!?!?
i have, had a pair of Magura Julies and destroyed front twice and back once. Got Hayes busted the line a few times but never busted the levers. Now i'm gonna run some Deore's on my new bike, (seeking more performance thru modulation), but i'm keeping the Hayes for backup.....

i think integrated is not a great idea at all for trail riders. If i destroy a brake lever way out in the sticks, i don't wanna deal with not having gears ON TOP of losing one of my brakes......

[wooglin]

Originally posted by Skookum
i think integrated is not a great idea at all for trail riders. If i destroy a brake lever way out in the sticks, i don't wanna deal with not having gears ON TOP of losing one of my brakes...... That about sums up my thoughts as well. What's good for racers is not necessarily good for the rest of us.

[Heidi]

Originally posted by indieboy
everyone bitches about bending or breaking their brake levers. honestly how many of you actually have, i mean seriously?!?!?

*raising hand*

[Silver]

That would mean 2005 LX is Rapid Rise (or Low Normal, or whatever they call it now) too, right?

[ghostrider]

I've had extremely good luck with Shimano stuff in the past, and I don't dislike them, but the latest product offerings seem to be trying to answer the questions that nobody asked.

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Heidi
*raising hand*

you don't ride hard enough to bend anything sucka :devil: :devil: :devil: :D

the lever wouldn't have bent if you hadn't cranked down on the bolt foolio!

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by indieboy


Just wait until Independent Fabrication makes there shifters and brake levers. They are the best.

[Devoracer77]

Originally posted by Echo
My problem with Shimano is not just that they are "big".

The problem is that they specifically design every product to work only with their products. You want Shimano cranks, you need a Shimano bottom bracket. You want to use hydro brakes with their shifters, you gotta use their brakes. The list goes on.

Remember when they refused to license Octalink to other crankset manufacturers? That's why ISIS exists.

They are digging their own grave.

Guess what! They don't design their products to be exclusive to each other, their chains work just peachy with an FSA crank set for example, but obviously XTR cranks are designed to be used with XTR chains, derraliures ect.. It makes sense that way. They test them together. They use similer metals and manufacturing processes that allow everything to work smoothly. And with brakes, what disk brake company had calipers compatible with other companies? Shimano's disk brakes don't work with other brands because they use mineral oil, and if you have ever bled any other disk brake that doesn't use mineral oil, and you spill some of the stuff, it is no good. Sram's X.O. stuff is at a level of perfecting for shifting in the rear, but until they have a full X.O. gruppo, it won't perform on par overal with XTR. Sram also makes a Shimano compatible shifter, but you don't see much R&D going in to high end development of that technology, because it is only logical for them to try to attract buyers to their other products available.

Now that they have purchased Avid, Shimano and Sram have now created an ogliopoly. The only difference is Sram is selling brakes under one name, and componets under another. So essientially, they are creating products, much like Shimano does, to work the best with other Sram/Avid products.

[DßR]

Originally posted by Devoracer77
Guess what! They don't design their products to be exclusive to each other, their chains work just peachy with an FSA crank set for example, but obviously XTR cranks are designed to be used with XTR chains, derraliures ect.. It makes sense that way. They test them together. They use similer metals and manufacturing processes that allow everything to work smoothly. And with brakes, what disk brake company had calipers compatible with other companies? Shimano's disk brakes don't work with other brands because they use mineral oil, and if you have ever bled any other disk brake that doesn't use mineral oil, and you spill some of the stuff, it is no good. Sram's X.O. stuff is at a level of perfecting for shifting in the rear, but until they have a full X.O. gruppo, it won't perform on par overal with XTR. Sram also makes a Shimano compatible shifter, but you don't see much R&D going in to high end development of that technology, because it is only logical for them to try to attract buyers to their other products available.

Now that they have purchased Avid, Shimano and Sram have now created an ogliopoly. The only difference is Sram is selling brakes under one name, and componets under another. So essientially, they are creating products, much like Shimano does, to work the best with other Sram/Avid products.

Dude, you have totally missed the point. When SRAM discontinues the best method of shifting available on the market (hint: i'm referring to high-normal Rapidfire) and replaces it with a system that 90% of the market doesn't like, and ONLY packages it with non-separable brake levers that ONLY work with Avid brakes, then we'll be bitching just as much.

For now, SRAM makes trigger shifters (which we like), packages them separately from the brake levers (which we like) and doesn't force low-normal derailleurs down our throats (which we like). And they even still support 8sp stuff to a degree (which we like). See much of a pattern there?

It all has to do with offering the consumer what the consumer WANTS.




edit - oh ya, the mineral oil spilling argument is bullcrap and everybody knows it. I've spilled DOT a hundred times while bleeding brakes and never peeled a single flake of paint. You clean it up with alcohol, same as with mineral oil.

[Silver]

You know, this has got me wondering if SRAM has the means to make an offer for FSA.

That would give them stems, bars, cranks, rings, bottom brackets, wheels, everything but a front mech.

I'd imagine that would help out in the OEM market too, one stop shopping for every component, right down to the fork.

[rockracing]

sram used to make a front derailleur, a mate of mine who just happens to have the sram agency in Sourth Africa, has a sram front der. (I think, hmmm)

why did they stop making them ??

[rockracing]

well, on the bright side LX is getting the hollowtech 2 cranks/bb which is a quite nice setup at hopefully a good price.

[-dustin]

good price for the 2-piece set-up? doubtful.

wasn't there a thread or post here saying something about SRAM releasing a FD in '05?

[Echo]

Originally posted by Devoracer77
Guess what! They don't design their products to be exclusive to each other, their chains work just peachy with an FSA crank set for example, but obviously XTR cranks are designed to be used with XTR chains, derraliures ect.. It makes sense that way. They test them together. They use similer metals and manufacturing processes that allow everything to work smoothly. And with brakes, what disk brake company had calipers compatible with other companies? Shimano's disk brakes don't work with other brands because they use mineral oil, and if you have ever bled any other disk brake that doesn't use mineral oil, and you spill some of the stuff, it is no good. Sram's X.O. stuff is at a level of perfecting for shifting in the rear, but until they have a full X.O. gruppo, it won't perform on par overal with XTR. Sram also makes a Shimano compatible shifter, but you don't see much R&D going in to high end development of that technology, because it is only logical for them to try to attract buyers to their other products available.

Now that they have purchased Avid, Shimano and Sram have now created an ogliopoly. The only difference is Sram is selling brakes under one name, and componets under another. So essientially, they are creating products, much like Shimano does, to work the best with other Sram/Avid products.
Like dude above said, you missed the point entirely.

I'll tell ya what, go put some XTR disc brakes on King hubs, and let me know how it works out for ya. Oh and let me know how many shifter options you have with that setup too.

[rockracing]

Originally posted by the Inbred
good price for the 2-piece set-up? doubtful.

wasn't there a thread or post here saying something about SRAM releasing a FD in '05?
not too sure what year this is....sram 7.0 fd.
http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/derailleurfrt/images/sram_7.0_frt_der.jpg

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Echo
Like dude above said, you missed the point entirely.

I'll tell ya what, go put some XTR disc brakes on King hubs, and let me know how it works out for ya. Oh and let me know how many shifter options you have with that setup too.

he wasn't that far off actually based off of what you stated in your earlier post. i'll go out on a limb though and agree w/ devo b/c think about it for a second. if you were an engineer for a company of any size, you're going to want your product to work as best as you can possibly get it to work correct? how else are you going to do that, by complying to someone elses "standards" that are supposedly great, yeah right. you're going to make your own shiet to work w/ your own shiet and get it dialed. sram's tried to do it, you don't remember the cranks that they tried to make years ago. with the purchase of sram i can actually see them intergrating brake levers w/ either their gripshifters or the thumbshifters. it's only a matter of time like it or not.......

i'm not to sure why every smashes stuff from shimano, the stuff isn't THAT bad. i'm still on sram stuff, i love srams stuff, but i wouldn't hesistate to ride the new xtr or the dual control stuf for XC racing. i wouldn't use it on a freeride bike, but that's another can of worms. the stuff isn't that bad you guys, i'd be willing to bet that half the ppl who are slamming the stuff haven't spent a damn second on it to even give it a try........

[Squeak]

Originally posted by indieboy
he wasn't that far off actually based off of what you stated in your earlier post. i'll go out on a limb though and agree w/ devo b/c think about it for a second. if you were an engineer for a company of any size, you're going to want your product to work as best as you can possibly get it to work correct? how else are you going to do that, by complying to someone elses "standards" that are supposedly great, yeah right. you're going to make your own shiet to work w/ your own shiet and get it dialed. sram's tried to do it, you don't remember the cranks that they tried to make years ago. with the purchase of sram i can actually see them intergrating brake levers w/ either their gripshifters or the thumbshifters. it's only a matter of time like it or not.......

i'm not to sure why every smashes stuff from shimano, the stuff isn't THAT bad. i'm still on sram stuff, i love srams stuff, but i wouldn't hesistate to ride the new xtr or the dual control stuf for XC racing. i wouldn't use it on a freeride bike, but that's another can of worms. the stuff isn't that bad you guys, i'd be willing to bet that half the ppl who are slamming the stuff haven't spent a damn second on it to even give it a try........

It's not really a question of how it works. It works well, I use 02 XTR myself.

The point is, they are making stuff that is only compatible with their own stuff. In the future, you may need to buy a "Shimano Compatable" frame.

I don't think it is good for the buisness. Hopefully they will get bit on the ass from this.

[arcteryx33]

Its seems to me you can purchase XT disc brake levers seperately and use them on any of shimano's calipers, which also can come with 6 bolt IS rotors. No shifters or dual control levers.

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Squeak
It's not really a question of how it works. It works well, I use 02 XTR myself.

The point is, they are making stuff that is only compatible with their own stuff. In the future, you may need to buy a "Shimano Compatable" frame.

I don't think it is good for the buisness. Hopefully they will get bit on the ass from this.

well the same could be said about srams component line up if you think about it. the ESP shifters (xo, x7/x9, 9.0sl, 9.0, etc) ONLY work w/ the sram esp rear der.. now yes i do know sram makes a shifter that is compitable w/ a shimano rear der.. they did that b/c at the time sram was a small company and not many ppl honestly liked the feel of their rear d's but liked the feel of the shifter......

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by indieboy
well the same could be said about srams component line up if you think about it. the ESP shifters (xo, x7/x9, 9.0sl, 9.0, etc) ONLY work w/ the sram esp rear der.. now yes i do know sram makes a shifter that is compitable w/ a shimano rear der.. they did that b/c at the time sram was a small company and not many ppl honestly liked the feel of their rear d's but liked the feel of the shifter......

You'll change your tune when Shimanos stuff doesn't work with IF frames :D

[DßR]

Originally posted by arcteryx33
Its seems to me you can purchase XT disc brake levers seperately and use them on any of shimano's calipers, which also can come with 6 bolt IS rotors. No shifters or dual control levers.

Could. Could purchase XT disc levers separately, as in used to be able to. Since XT went dual-control for 2004, there's no way to get the shifter apart from the brakes. Obviously there's still old stock lying around right now, but that won't last forever.

You still currently have the option of buying Deore disc levers and combining them with SRAM triggers if you want trigger shifters and Shimano brakes (XT/XTR). But I don't imagine that'll be around much longer....




Folks, what it all boils down to is this. WE LIKED RAPIDFIRE. It sucks that Shimano has killed Rapidfire. And it sucks more that if you want Shimano shifters, you have to use their brakes. Thankfully SRAM understands that we like our stuff separate.

[Echo]

Originally posted by indieboy
he wasn't that far off actually based off of what you stated in your earlier post. i'll go out on a limb though and agree w/ devo b/c think about it for a second. if you were an engineer for a company of any size, you're going to want your product to work as best as you can possibly get it to work correct? how else are you going to do that, by complying to someone elses "standards" that are supposedly great, yeah right. you're going to make your own shiet to work w/ your own shiet and get it dialed. sram's tried to do it, you don't remember the cranks that they tried to make years ago. with the purchase of sram i can actually see them intergrating brake levers w/ either their gripshifters or the thumbshifters. it's only a matter of time like it or not.......

i'm not to sure why every smashes stuff from shimano, the stuff isn't THAT bad. i'm still on sram stuff, i love srams stuff, but i wouldn't hesistate to ride the new xtr or the dual control stuf for XC racing. i wouldn't use it on a freeride bike, but that's another can of worms. the stuff isn't that bad you guys, i'd be willing to bet that half the ppl who are slamming the stuff haven't spent a damn second on it to even give it a try........
Once again. I never said their stuff doesn't work. And if they come up with a better way to do stuff, cool. Let the industry conform to their new "standard". That's what Hayes did.

But instead, here's Shimano's MO:

1. Design something. Cool, that's what they are supposed to do.

2. Patent it. Duh. That's what they have to do.

3. Try to get it spec'd on as many bikes as possible. Of course. Market share. Economics 101.

4. Refuse to license the technology to certain other manufacturers, so you HAVE to use their stuff. Only allow select competitors to license, so they decide who they compete against.

If King wants to make a hub that works with Shimano's stuff, why shouldn't they be allowed to? I'll tell you why, because Shimano knows King will do it better. If Hope wants their brakes to mount up to Shimano hubs, why shouldn't they be allowed to? Because Shimano knows Hope makes better brakes.

Shimano's afraid of competition, and they design and market their products not to be better, but to prevent competition.

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Echo
Once again. I never said their stuff doesn't work. And if they come up with a better way to do stuff, cool. Let the industry conform to their new "standard". That's what Hayes did.

But instead, here's Shimano's MO:

1. Design something. Cool, that's what they are supposed to do.

2. Patent it. Duh. That's what they have to do.

3. Try to get it spec'd on as many bikes as possible. Of course. Market share. Economics 101.

4. Refuse to license the technology to certain other manufacturers, so you HAVE to use their stuff. Only allow select competitors to license, so they decide who they compete against.

If King wants to make a hub that works with Shimano's stuff, why shouldn't they be allowed to? I'll tell you why, because Shimano knows King will do it better. If Hope wants their brakes to mount up to Shimano hubs, why shouldn't they be allowed to? Because Shimano knows Hope makes better brakes.

Shimano's afraid of competition, and they design and market their products not to be better, but to prevent competition.

there were quite a number of pro xc riders last year on full xtr setups w/ other wheelsets than shimano xtr hubs or xtr full wheelset ups. there were numerous riders on crossmax's and bonti wheels. that leads me to believe on thing, that they offer different bolt patterns for their rotors....

[wooglin]

Originally posted by DßR
Folks, what it all boils down to is this. WE LIKED RAPIDFIRE. It sucks that Shimano has killed Rapidfire. And it sucks more that if you want Shimano shifters, you have to use their brakes. Thankfully SRAM understands that we like our stuff separate. Who remembers thumbies?

[Echo]

Originally posted by indieboy
there were quite a number of pro xc riders last year on full xtr setups w/ other wheelsets than shimano xtr hubs or xtr full wheelset ups. there were numerous riders on crossmax's and bonti wheels. that leads me to believe on thing, that they offer different bolt patterns for their rotors....
Or maybe pros have access to more stuff than the rest of us...

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Echo
Or maybe pros have access to more stuff than the rest of us...

not all of them, trust me....

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by Echo
Or maybe pros have access to more stuff than the rest of us...

I would think you could run any rotor (of the same thickness/diameter) with the XTR disc brake setup, but then you'd have to buy an extra set of rotors, which sucks, which is what I think you are trying to say.

[arcteryx33]

Actully they are still making the XT levers just for that purpose. You can buy them as a set from places like jenson etc. I just saw an ad for em. That is their soloution to having levers without shifters.

[rockracing]

Originally posted by ghostrider
I would think you could run any rotor (of the same thickness/diameter) with the XTR disc brake setup, but then you'd have to buy an extra set of rotors, which sucks, which is what I think you are trying to say.

yup, a mate of mine has just swopped his magura marta's for new XTR disc brakes and has kept his crossmax wheels and magura wavy rotors. works fine, both 160mm diam.

[towelie]

Does anybody else remember the early/mid 90's when rapidfire came out? For a few years, you could only get rapid fire shifters integrated into Shimano brake levers. While this meant you couldn't pick seperate angles for your shifters and brakes, it wasn't too big a deal since the levers would work with any canti's, which was pretty much all anybody used at the time.

Well, now they've COMPLETELY integrated the shifter with the brake lever so they can never be seperated, AND you can only use those brake levers with their calipers, which are packaged with their rotors, which are only compatible with their hubs. If somebody likes Shimano shifters, you have to get Shimano everything.

So...will they offer stand alone rapid fire shifters for awhile longer, or are they going to totally leave their old customers high and dry the minute a shifter breaks or wears out? If everything is going dual control and rapid-rise, as soon as you break a rear derailer or shifter, you are totally screwed and will need a pretty much brand new drivetrain if you intend to stay with Shimano.

They've just gone too far this time.

[Devoracer77]

Originally posted by Echo
Or maybe pros have access to more stuff than the rest of us...

XT rotors are compatiable with any disk hubs. They are also compatiable with new XTR and XT brakes. Shimano is not making their 'old' stuff obsolete either. Not yet at least.

[SkaredShtles]

Originally posted by wooglin
Who remembers thumbies?

:stupid:

I :heart: thumbies.........

-S.S.-

[rockracing]

I have a brand new set of Shimano Deore Thumbshifters, think they're 7 speed, those thing work so well, and when the gear go out of whack you can just put it on friction mode and get the perfect setting, will def. use them one day on an old skool rigid hardtail or something.

[oldfart]

Originally posted by Echo
Like dude above said, you missed the point entirely.

I'll tell ya what, go put some XTR disc brakes on King hubs, and let me know how it works out for ya. Oh and let me know how many shifter options you have with that setup too.

Easy, use last years XT rotor or an aftermarket one or one with the same dimensions. Use any Shimano hydraulic lever. Use the XT lever only and use any damn shifter you want.

Last time I was in a shop, I did not see any Shimano employee with a large stick forcing me to buy their stuff. Sure they try and get manufacturers to buy their entire parts groups. So. The thing is, the manufacturers like buying complete groups as the chances of something incompatible or suffering a performance problem is much less likely. When they start mixing and matching, it has to be done carefully or there can be issues. Their stuff works extremely well. So does Avid and SRAM stuff. Buy what you want. Get what you like best.

[oldfart]

Originally posted by towelie
Does anybody else remember the early/mid 90's when rapidfire came out? For a few years, you could only get rapid fire shifters integrated into Shimano brake levers. While this meant you couldn't pick seperate angles for your shifters and brakes, it wasn't too big a deal since the levers would work with any canti's, which was pretty much all anybody used at the time.

Well, now they've COMPLETELY integrated the shifter with the brake lever so they can never be seperated, AND you can only use those brake levers with their calipers, which are packaged with their rotors, which are only compatible with their hubs. If somebody likes Shimano shifters, you have to get Shimano everything.

So...will they offer stand alone rapid fire shifters for awhile longer, or are they going to totally leave their old customers high and dry the minute a shifter breaks or wears out? If everything is going dual control and rapid-rise, as soon as you break a rear derailer or shifter, you are totally screwed and will need a pretty much brand new drivetrain if you intend to stay with Shimano.

They've just gone too far this time.

Wrong. Wrong wrong. DT Swiss make centerlock hubs. There will be others too. Shimano still make the XT hydraulic lever alone. 02 XTR is still available. Many 6 bolt rotors to choose from.

Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.

Why would you be tottaly screwed if you broke a derailleur or Shifter? Go buy another one.

Guess what you can't get top end 7 speed stuff anymore. So. If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily. That's like a Mercedes owner complaining about gas prices.

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by oldfart
If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily.

Now that what I would call "wrong wrong wrong." Which orifice did you pull that one out of?

I think it is interesting to note that Shimano is now offering XTR disc brakes with 6-bolt rotors. The market will ultimately determine which products endure, and if I were a betting man, I'd put my dough on SRAM right now.

[Echo]

Originally posted by oldfart
Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.
So maybe Shimano learned a lesson from their Octalink/ISIS bungle.

Anyway, like you said, I'm gonna buy what I like. And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

[Westy]

Originally posted by Echo
Anyway, like you said, I'm gonna buy what I like. And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by Echo
And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

Go check again - this is not a discussion forum, this is a "Tell it like it is, everybody else is a stupid whiner" soapbox.

[Squeak]

Originally posted by Westy
You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.

:D :monkey:

[Skookum]

Originally posted by Westy
You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.
Thanx alot i'm afraid to answer the phone now.:( :monkey:

[PaulE]

Originally posted by oldfart

Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.

Why would you be tottaly screwed if you broke a derailleur or Shifter? Go buy another one.

Guess what you can't get top end 7 speed stuff anymore. So. If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily. That's like a Mercedes owner complaining about gas prices.

Aren't the raceface BBs ISIS, rather than shimano splined? The only similar thing is the outboard bearings..... which Bullseye did years ago, so did Shimano copy them?

You'd be screwed if you broke a rapidfire shifter because to replace it, you'll need to get the new combined shifter/lever, and then need a new brake calliper to go with that (assumin you're in the majority and running brakes other than shimano)... and if you're unlucky, then you'll need a new hub or rotor to match.

[oldfart]

The newest Race Face cranks, Diabolus, Deus and Atlas are not ISIS. They use a very similar system to Shimano's latest. The bearings sit outside the bb shell and a very large spindle is permanently attached to the non drive crank and is clamped or screwed to the drive side. I haven't seeen any in real life yet though.

I wouldn't say you would be screwed if you had to buy a new combo shifter and brake lever. It would cost more but you wouldn't be screwed. Screwed to me means you can't get a new shifter at all so you have to change a bunch of stuff.

[Cash-Money]

looking in the new bti catalouge...

XT brakes with 8inch rotors available with just levers

XTR brakes available with splined or IS 6 bolt rotors

XT and Deore levers available seperatly

[rockracing]

Originally posted by Sven tha Viking
looking in the new bti catalouge...

XT brakes with 8inch rotors available with just levers

XTR brakes available with splined or IS 6 bolt rotors

XT and Deore levers available seperatly

yeah I saw a 2004 scott bike at the lbs that had xt calipers and separate levers which are exactly the same as last years xt levers, but not black with silver lever, think it had a black lever and the XT "beige" color for the rest.

[PaulE]

Originally posted by oldfart
The newest Race Face cranks, Diabolus, Deus and Atlas are not ISIS. They use a very similar system to Shimano's latest. The bearings sit outside the bb shell and a very large spindle is permanently attached to the non drive crank and is clamped or screwed to the drive side. I haven't seeen any in real life yet though.

I wouldn't say you would be screwed if you had to buy a new combo shifter and brake lever. It would cost more but you wouldn't be screwed. Screwed to me means you can't get a new shifter at all so you have to change a bunch of stuff.

Fair enough about the race face cranks. didn't realise they were going 2 piece too. Strange how these ideas come and go though - I'm sure that tomac used to race on a similar system, called the tioga revolver (or something like that). Always seemed a good idea too, nice to see it re-appearing.

The costing a lot more is what would make me screwed, and I think that having to change brakes as well is changing a bunch of stuff..... 6 bolt rotors being available does make it a bit less severe though.

[Drevil]

Originally posted by SkaredShtles
:stupid:

I :heart: thumbies.........

-S.S.-

Thumbies not :dead: yet:
http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbie.inside.jpg

[blue]

those look like downtubes off a roadie...

:P

[splat]

they are a converted set of Bar ends

[fonseca]

Originally posted by PaulE
Fair enough about the race face cranks. didn't realise they were going 2 piece too. Strange how these ideas come and go though - I'm sure that tomac used to race on a similar system, called the tioga revolver (or something like that).

Bullseye used a larger spindle than the Tioga Revolver, and the clamping surface was different. There were half a dozen other brands with their own versions. Shimano certainly didn't come up with this design, they merely waited for patents to expire before improving decades old technology. Outboard bearings and hollow crankarms are nothing new either. So who is copying who?

What I dislike about Shimano, aside from certain microsoftesque tactics when it comes to competition, is how they intentionally alter their products to make them incompatible with less expensive replacement parts.

[Yanick]

Originally posted by indieboy
everyone bitches about bending or breaking their brake levers. honestly how many of you actually have, i mean seriously?!?!? just don't tighten the bolt all the way down so if you DO hit anything your entire shifter will just rotate a bit.

ME !! broke the entire casing, not the lever. BAD BAD