Public service announcement from Marzocchi USA [Archive]

Freak

03-18-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Apparently someone posted 2005 Marzocchi product pics? Well you better cut it out, cuz look at this email I got:

To whom it may concern,

You have posted unauthorized pictures of my 2005 product line._ The pictures were taken in Taiwan, at my booth last week. _I assume you realize that they are pictures of my 2005 line and I think you realize that releasing this information too early is a disservice to Marzocchi and your subscribers. _Since specifications and product lines do change disseminating incorrect information is absolutely wrong and I will pursue any and all legal procedures I can do make sure you will not perform this unprofessional act of stupidity again.

Sincerely,
Bryson Martin
VP Marzocchi USA

:rolleyes:

Ha!!! I knew there was some kind of reason I didn't like Marz and would never purchase one....What an ass!

Heh....I got a e-mail from SRAM regarding the pics of the 2005 boxxer lineup. But they were totally nice about it in the e-mail and I was happy to delete the thread for them.

But I agree, if you have it in a booth at a bikeshow.....people around the world will see it.

Lexx D

03-18-2004, 02:07 PM

All those pics did is make me want one! I don't see how this is a bad thing:confused:

Heidi

03-18-2004, 02:23 PM

How do people with such a lack of professionalism and class get in positions where they interact with the public? Was the tone and wording in that letter really necessary?

Echo

03-18-2004, 02:34 PM

Hey, maybe I can sue Mtbkngrl for posting that picture of when I was passed out drunk and she wrote all over me with a Sharpie.

Motionboy2

03-18-2004, 02:40 PM

Ya see what happens when people on ridemonkey get enthusiastic about Bikes?! You guys got RM in trouble. Better go back to posting about work and sex and cars...

That'ill teach ya! :rolleyes: :p

Ok now somebody explain to me how he would have a case, if a shot posted by a random member of the RM community showed up from an event in taiwan, when a video of Pamela and Tommy lee got out and they could not make a case to stop it from being produced!

Silver

03-18-2004, 02:51 PM

I'd imagine that Marzocchi USA would have about the same case that Ford would if they showed off a car at a tradeshow and then (gasp!) photos ended up in newspapers or on the web.

Motionboy2

03-18-2004, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Silver
I'd imagine that Marzocchi USA would have about the same case that Ford would if they showed off a car at a tradeshow and then (gasp!) photos ended up in newspapers or on the web.

You mean like these pictures?
http://autos.msn.com/as/autoshow2004/gallery.aspx?src=autoshow2004&xml=Ford-concepts

Motionboy2

03-18-2004, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
hmm and when did Ridemonkey sign a NDA with Marzo??

Oh wait you didn't?:rolleyes:

Right now they are tracking all of our IP addresses to sue us all for Libel and Slander :rolleyes:

5cents

03-18-2004, 03:01 PM

what a jacka--.

There is no legal action he can take. sure he can threaten to sue or do what ever, but in reality, he is sitting on a rotten egg. The purpose of a tradeshow, like mentioned above, is to increase "buzz" about a companies upcomming products.

Now if this was a top secret project that that marz. was involved in and someone leaked photos, that is different. Think Ford, et al, who use fake bodies on new products (like engines, etc). Because they know that photo freaks hang outside there plants and photo all cars for the industry mags, zines, websites.

I tell you what, I think Marz. can take their overpriced italian crap and shove it up their arse. Threaten all you want, but so what.

And as Heidi said, "How do people with such a lack of professionalism and class get in positions where they interact with the public?"

:angry:

tmx

03-18-2004, 03:03 PM

"...this is not an industry, it's a loose connection of dickheads and deadbeats."

"the true worth of a race must be measured by the character of its women..."

"bikes are the lonely child's toy"

Silver

03-18-2004, 03:06 PM

Keep in mind, just because one person is a dick, it doesn't mean the whole company is...

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Silver
Keep in mind, just because one person is a dick, it doesn't mean the whole company is...

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I am upset about how Bryson went about this BUT at the same time, don't assume all Marz employees are this way, Brian P has been great to us and is always willing to answer questions in a friendly manner. Unfortunately one bad apple gives the bunch a bad name... but try not to get on the whole "Marz Sucks" bandwaggon...

Ridemonkey

03-18-2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by mplutodh1
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I am upset about how Bryson went about this BUT at the same time, don't assume all Marz employees are this way, Brian P has been great to us and is always willing to answer questions in a friendly manner. Unfortunately one bad apple gives the bunch a bad name... but try not to get on the whole "Marz Sucks" bandwaggon...

I don't have a problem with the company - and obviously they make a great product. This Bryson character has been a black eye on the company for years though. Remember that letter he sent to MBA a couple years back claiming that Marzocchi "IS" freeride and that no other company can make a decent freeride fork? Anyone have that issue of MBA anymore?

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 03:15 PM

Matt D

03-18-2004, 03:58 PM

RM, did you ask him why the 888 and 66 have such high ride heights?

:p

Spunger

03-18-2004, 05:40 PM

Wow, that is the stupidest thing ever to do.

IF you have products that you show at shows, and someone posts a picture of it that they took, then that's it. It's not like Marzocchi is top secret goverment stuff. Who give's a sh*t if the photo's came up. They are up and not just ridemonkey has them, I bet now pinkbike guys, hcor guys, and mtbr have taken them as well and posted them.

Seeing new products on the fourm gets a great hype factor. People know about them before they are released. You think if they hid the 888 people would have flocked at it when it came out? NO. Marzocchi gets free advertising from people that post their prototype models on message boards. It is as easy as that. Their forks aren't free, there's no discounts, no nothing so they should be stoked to get a free endorsment for their products.

I have to 100% agree that the letter he sent was wrong. IF he was professional about it I could see the post being deleted or pics atleast gone but with an attitude like his I'd say screw it. Marzocchi forks are great forks. They better watch out or they are gonna get a bad rep.

Some monkey's on here gotta be lawyers or somethin to help RM out if he needed it. We shouldn't post pics of anything bike related if a VP of a company is gonna get pissed off.

That just sucks, I never thought one of the premire freeride/DH fork companies would take it that far.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 06:10 PM

Howdy y'al!

Wow what did I walk into???

As far as Bryson yeah he's got one (an attitude and an asshole), and he indeed designs the stuff which is why he refers to it has "his".
His lash out was more about the linked post then the the show photos that started the photo. The link photos were straight out of "our" OEM presentation book. These books are marked everywhere as Confidential...that's the problem. The show photos are cool the spec pages are not.

Just so you all know, and for those who haven't ran out and bought a FOX or Manitou, The specs on the link pages were wrong, ride hieght, features, names....they are all "not locked in" as "the specs" so when the original thread turned into the lets bash Marzocchi for there tall forks that's when it went from bad to worse.

Comments and buzz about new product is what keeps a company alive...along with sales ya know.

I agree Bryson is an asshole. But check this out (not trying to make it a good thing) Bryson singlehandedly started this MTB suspension company...15 years ago! :D

Take care everyone I apprieciate your comments.

Tom Rogers
aka Soul Rider
aka Old School:cool:

binary visions

03-18-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
What he said, and to append: Hello freedom of the press and right to free speech.:mad:

I'd actually be mildly interested to see exactly what kind of legal action he proposes to take. RM didn't "publish" the pictures, they were posted on a public message board. I'm not sure who exactly took them but they were high quality enough that I'd guess they were taken legally (vs. snapshots from a camera under your shirt or something).

You'd think someone who reaches that level in an organization would have an iota of professionalism and would realize that such an email is only inflammitory and loses business. If he really had a case or was actually prepared to take legal action, a lawyer would have sent the email.

Utter stupidity :angry:

Not saying Marz. products are bad, but.. Something like that makes me glad I've got a Sherman.

edit: Looks like there were links to confidential information, which makes my comment about pictures being taken legally - oops. I stand by the rest of my comments though.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
Now THAT explains a heck of alot more then a pissy email. The photos i think were the point of contention (at least for me, and I don't have any stake in it). I couldn't figure out how products sitting out on display at a show that was open to media, were off limits. No NDAs, no camera bans, no publication bans etc.

Posting clearly confidential paperwork is however, a major no-no. BUt going hell bent for leather against someone who didn't even know they were posted, seems like a bit much.

Maybe he should learn from your example (or let you take the lead when it comes to these matters? :p ).

good stuff.

Oh - and I met bryson exactly one time in Valencia with Boehmke and he seemed like a decent guy. Guess you can't judge a book by its cover.

I am actually joking about the asshole part. He is however very passionate about "his" company. Things like this are nothing but a huge headache none of us "insiders" need. We have better things to do.
The last thing we need is for our new spec sheets to end up on a public forum (as well as Bryson's letter). He might have been a bit harsh but "this" thread was completely BS. RM, or whoever you are (why don't you peps posts your details, are you hiding from someone?) I understand and knew you didn't post it but at the same time you are classless, a true non-professional in this little industry of MTB's. Sorry I had to say it. ExcussME!
I wouldn't be surprised if you disolved my access to your site but that would indeed prove my point.

Business is business let's leave it at that.

FYI,
I have RS, Fox and Manitous 2005 OEM book sitting right here next to my scanner. Why shouldn't I post this stuff????? I know better. I worked for Manitou (R&D) for 10 years (left 6 months ago) and I even know a lot of their 2006 line but it still does not give me the right to "share it".

Thanks again, any suggestions are greatly appricated. We do listen in between putting foot to ass!!

Freak

03-18-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
He might have been a bit harsh but "this" thread was completely BS. RM, or whoever you are (why don't you peps posts your details, are you hiding from someone?) I understand and knew you didn't post it but at the same time you are classless, a true non-professional in this little industry of MTB's. Sorry I had to say it. ExcussME!
I wouldn't be surprised if you disolved my access to your site but that would indeed prove my point.

Business is business let's leave it at that.

Ha....you're starting to sound like Byrson now.:dead:

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Freak
Ha....you're starting to sound like Byrson now.:dead:

Was this directed at you? I did excuse myself

Thanks for your concern.:rolleyes:

Freak

03-18-2004, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Was this directed at you? I did excuse myself

Thanks for your concern.:rolleyes:

When I own part of the site......then yes it's directed towards me

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 07:06 PM

how exactly did RM get involved yet again? he didnt post the stuff in question.. hes the moderator/owner of the site... and Freak is co-owner... hmmm

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:10 PM

This is kinda like complaining about a 200mm fork designed around a 3" tire being installed on a 98 DH frame. It just shouldn't be done.

My Demo 9 sure does sit nice with this nose bleeder on the frontend.

I'm gone, have fun. We will continue to make kickass product anyways. My heart and soul has been spilled...now I must drag my sorry ass home so I can be a dick to my neighbors, kids, and...where's Bryson's # I need to give hiom a pece of my mind too...what an asshole. For those who take things literally, I'm being sarcastic.

I work for Bikemag anyways. ;) :p

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by mplutodh1
how exactly did RM get involved yet again? he didnt post the stuff in question.. hes the moderator/owner of the site... and Freak is co-owner... hmmm

I believe the letter posted at the top of this page was sent to him directly, then he posted it. That's how he's into again.

Excuse me if I'm wrong.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Freak
When I own part of the site......then yes it's directed towards me

Did you start this thread....No, RM did with a personal e-mail sent directly to him. Look at it from our side for a minute. Thanks.

HippieKai

03-18-2004, 07:16 PM

well i have never talked to Bryson and can't say anything about him personally but....that e-amil is BS! He should have been more profesional than that no matter wwhat the situation.

with that said i love every Marz product i ride and think that Brian P is one of the nicest inside reps i have ever worked with!!!!

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
I believe the letter posted at the top of this page was sent to him directly, then he posted it. That's how he's into again.

Excuse me if I'm wrong.

Well if Bryson didn't want it to be seen then he should have thought about his tone. I own a business and have had copyright issues in the past, my communication is generally friendly because you don't always have the facts in front of you, why start off on a bad foot? If things get out of hand and you aren't getting anywhere, alright maybe you can be a hardass...

I dunno... whatever, not sure who you are or if you are even credible.

I will continue to support Marz because the company as a whole makes great products and everyone of the employees I have dealt with first hand has been great.

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Did you start this thread....No, RM did with a personal e-mail sent directly to him. Look at it from our side for a minute. Thanks.

Our side? can I ask who you are? since you are getting on RM to post who he really is...

Oh and as far as professional goes... hmmm take a look at this sentence alone...

"make sure you will not perform this unprofessional act of stupidity again"

Well again, RM didn't post it, he didn't even know about it. Bryson's tone was crap in that email

Freak

03-18-2004, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Did you start this thread....No, RM did with a personal e-mail sent directly to him. Look at it from our side for a minute. Thanks.

You know, if Bryson would have been a little more considerate about the situation and explained it a little more instead of "I'll take legal action" blah blah blah....I'm sure this thread would have never gotten started.

Shouldn't you go home now?

RhinofromWA

03-18-2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
The last thing we need is for our new spec sheets to end up on a public forum (as well as Bryson's letter). He might have been a bit harsh but "this" thread was completely BS. RM, or whoever you are (why don't you peps posts your details, are you hiding from someone?) I understand and knew you didn't post it but at the same time you are classless, a true non-professional in this little industry of MTB's. Sorry I had to say it. ExcussME!
I wouldn't be surprised if you disolved my access to your site but that would indeed prove my point.

Business is business let's leave it at that.

Wow I liked the tone in your first post much more than this one. :(

FYI,
I have RS, Fox and Manitous 2005 OEM book sitting right here next to my scanner. Why shouldn't I post this stuff????? I know better. I worked for Manitou (R&D) for 10 years (left 6 months ago) and I even know a lot of their 2006 line but it still does not give me the right to "share it".

Thanks again, any suggestions are greatly appricated.

Well being that you work in the industry. More specifically the suspension industry.....(*edit* nevermind you work for Marz again....I am :confused: :) ?). By all means, go right ahead and publish that info. I think you like your job enough that you will refrain. ;)

Now your beef should be with the individual linking/posting the info. Not addressing the moderators solely regarding this matter. The person posting the info is the one in trouble....or maybe I missed something? They have the private/confidential information and made it public. It just seems your attention is missdirected. Maybe you have contacted the person at fault....

As far as RM's tone in his posts, it seemed matter of fact and informational. Very reserved in regard to a letter like the one that came from Mr Martin. I say your first post in this thread was worthy of a big :thumb: This last post, well...............

It probably wasn't the best PR move.

RhinofromWA

Shmoe

03-18-2004, 07:25 PM

Marzocchi sure hires some REALLY smart guys:dead:
How great would this look:

"Marzocchi sues large MTB website for hosting prototype pictures"

Thats gonna boost up those sales:)

Im just gonna laugh....

And buy a manitou;)

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by mplutodh1
I dunno... whatever, not sure who you are or if you are even credible.

ME? I've been involved in MTB's since 1984.

I am the Technical Director for Marzocchi USA.

I work my ass off to help all you consumers! I'm one too.
:D

I deleted all the achivements (better to be a has been than a never was;) )

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
I'll vouch for Tom, he has been around the block.

Thats fine... sounds like he has (not that I needed a full speach on his acheivments but whatever)

The problem we are all having right now is the way things are being done. I never denied that the info probably shouldnt have been posted. Pics whatever they are gonna get out, you asked for it by showing them to anyone in the public. The specs yeah ok that was an F up on the posting party's part. My beef is when you and Bryson blame RM or whoever for posting this and threaten legal action. Clearly the homework wasn't done before the email was sent, which for someone in his position in such a respectable company should have been first nature.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
Hey Tom

I knwo i have absolutely no business in this but here goes...

Just as Bryson has has a large stake in his company and is quite passionate about it, so do RM and Freak here (co-owners).

I think you have to both see things from the others point of view. RM didn't post anything, didn't know about anything and got a pissy email threatening legal action? Can you at least see how that would piss someone off?

Although for this occasion I have to admit that RM maybe went a bit overboard printing the name/company asociated with the email.

As for Bryson's concern's, I can completely understand his point of view as well, as expectations will be created (and possibly broken) due to next model year's spec sheets hitting the public domain, especially when they are clearly marked as confidential.

I also think that Bryson could have made it CLEAR what photos where the problem, first time i heard about it, i understood it was the actual product photos taken at the display, which would have been bizarre, as they were on display. I think a clear professional please remove it email, would have gone alot further and eliminated much of the drama.

Ok referee mode done. Just tryin' to keep the peace.

I agree. I did just that. But he made it happen....and it left a mark.
We here at Marzocchi want nothing more than to make great product for all to enjoy. Thanks for everything.

Transcend

03-18-2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by mplutodh1
Thats fine... sounds like he has (not that I needed a full speach on his acheivments but whatever)

The problem we are all having right now is the way things are being done. I never denied that the info probably shouldnt have been posted. Pics whatever they are gonna get out, you asked for it by showing them to anyone in the public. The specs yeah ok that was an F up on the posting party's part. My beef is when you and Bryson blame RM or whoever for posting this and threaten legal action. Clearly the homework wasn't done before the email was sent, which for someone in his position in such a respectable company should have been first nature.

I won't argue that. I do want to point out that most people aren't as "internet savvy" as they could be when it comes to things like this...

What seems obvious to college students who spend their days online, isn't always as clear cut to a big wig business person who checks their coorporate email and "downloads" things from diskettes... you know? :rolleyes: :D :monkey:

RhinofromWA

03-18-2004, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
I won't argue that. I do want to point out that most people aren't as "internet savvy" as they could be when it comes to things like this...

What seems obvious to college students who spend their days online, isn't always as clear cut to a big wig business person who checks their coorporate email and "downloads" things from diskettes... you know? :rolleyes: :D :monkey:

Internet Savy?

That letter wasn't savy in any application....least most, addressed to RM. That is what the beef was about....I think.

Maybe Mr Martin needs to go to a class to work on personal (internet) skills? :) just kidding! ......well, kinda. :o:

I would be just as put off if that came to me snail mail.

No time should that have left the office...thru internet or mail.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
I won't argue that. I do want to point out that most people aren't as "internet savvy" as they could be when it comes to things like this...

What seems obvious to college students who spend their days online, isn't always as clear cut to a big wig business person who checks their coorporate email and "downloads" things from diskettes... you know? :rolleyes: :D :monkey:

Ding, Ding, Ding, Now we are getting somewhere. Bryson only operates a palm pilot and a cell phone (he can ride like a Banshee though too)

How but we all go ride our bikes and drink beer whenever we have something we want to complain about...negativity sucks. Why complain..constructive critisism is the way to go.

I'm going to go get drunk...then ride my bike!

thruster

03-18-2004, 07:47 PM

This is to Bryson Martin VP of Marzocchi USA:

YOU ARE AN IDOT for sending a threatening letter like that to Ridemonkey.

1) Neither Marzocchi nor you have any legal action that can be taken against Ridemonkey or its members for if you did your lawyer would have written the letter.
2) When you show a new product at a trade show expect photos to be taken and posted. So get use to it. If you would not like your products to be photographed then put your products in a box and only show them to people that won’t take photos.
3) In your letter it states that “I assume you realize that they are pictures of the 2005 line…” Nowhere that I can see in the photos does it say that these are the 2005 products. (I am basing this off the photos I found of the 66 fork). So yes people can assume that they are. To bad you let out that they are from the 2005 line.
4) Next time you write a letter be a professional don’t threaten someone with legal action first. I am sure if you where to ask in a polite manner those photos would have been removed right away.

The men and women at Marzocchi put out in my option the best products I have ridden. To bad your VP acts like a fool.

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
dude, next time, please read thread in advance. It wasn't the "product" photos, it was the scans/pictrues of the spec sheets that are marked confidential.

Anyways, I'm gonna go ride some rollers. You kids are on your own now, play nice.:monkey:

haha man... you need to update your avatar! wishing its xmas again!?:D

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
Team managering/being a media whore is fun

Haha I know how the team managering thing goes... my living room was jam packed with Rockgardn stuff, 11 flak jackets, tons of knee/shin, goggles, gloves, you name it the team got it, Clif Bar's for the roadies/xc guys, FSA parts gallor, Park Tools, Maxxis on its way, sportworks on its way, hayes on its way... haha you get the idea too!:) its awesome to see all the goodies but its a lot of work too!

Motionboy2

03-18-2004, 08:02 PM

You know, he must be pretty busy these days. I mean if he is going to enforce legal action against those who have 2005 marzocchi product then he has to go through all these sites

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=2005+marzocchi

that is 10+ pages of google hits. Hmmm...

Jeremy R

03-18-2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider

Why complain..constructive critisism is the way to go.

Alright, the 888 is a great fork.
How's about next year, lower it so that it comes up to Yao Ming's waist instead of up to his chin.
Is this what you meant?;)

And take away your VP's CPU and drop a Super Monster on it from 100 feet up. That way he can't fire off ridiculously silly e-mails that hurts his credibility and damages the reputation of a great fork company.

Echo

03-18-2004, 08:09 PM

I suppose when it's all said and done, Ridemonkey and Freak should be proud that their little website is worthy of such attention from a corporate VP.

I mean, a year and a half ago people were predicting that this site couldn't survive without Zonic Man, but now here it is with record membership numbers and industry VP's surfing :D

THRILLSEEKA

03-18-2004, 08:14 PM

It sounds like NONE of this was handled very well from the get-go....
Bryson is obviously not very adept at dealing with humans or how to get things done in much simpler ways, but see his point. It's not the pics or the scans that bother him...it's WRONG INFORMATION. There was already mention of ride heights, etc, which means opinions are already forming, even if only subconsciously. And they are based on nothing, so I see his concern.
RM's post on the main page of this wbsite made it SOUND like he had genuine concern. His"Knock it off..." statement sounded like an administrator putting his foot down. Good. But then it just went down hill from there....into name calling and finger pointing. If there were 20 kids and one babysitter in a paking lot throwing rocks at your bike, who are you going to jump on first? Too many kids, so go after the sitter. RM is our sitter, so he SHOULD take the heat. He should have handled it smoother, brushed it off, and then Bryson would still look like the jerk and there would be no other fingers being pointed in any other directions.
Bryson? 2 words buddy...Anger Management. I could almost SEE you throwing a tantrum on the floor in your fit of rage. No need to yell when a "please" would have gotten SOOOO much farther. The info was obviously obtained my a Marz fan, not a hater. But I'm willing to bet that may change now.
I've always believed that a product is only as good as the people behind it. LUCKILY for you, I just had a mind blowingly pleasant experience with a rep(Tracy) concerning my Super T that left me with nothing but warm fuzzy feelings!
But man, Bryson...I wouldn't even ride with you, dude. And THAT says a LOT.

Bonk

03-18-2004, 08:33 PM

If they didn't want pictures getting out, why did they allow pictures to be taken?

...food for thought.

switch

03-18-2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Echo
I suppose when it's all said and done, Ridemonkey and Freak should be proud that their little website is worthy of such attention from a corporate VP.

So true.

FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). Drop some hints on what you'll be doing that is better than the competitor (via photos, rumours, etc.), and sway the buyer from buyin from the competitor.

What you don't want is a commitment to potential buyers that you can be held accountable for. This is known as a "whooping crane".

The Taiwan show photos are typical FUD that pops up all the time in business.

mplutodh1

03-18-2004, 08:43 PM

Gang, read the posts... it wasnt so much the photos as the Confidential spec sheets that were posted.

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
It sounds like NONE of this was handled very well from the get-go....
Bryson is obviously not very adept at dealing with humans or how to get things done in much simpler ways, but see his point. It's not the pics or the scans that bother him...it's WRONG INFORMATION. There was already mention of ride heights, etc, which means opinions are already forming, even if only subconsciously. And they are based on nothing, so I see his concern.
RM's post on the main page of this wbsite made it SOUND like he had genuine concern. His"Knock it off..." statement sounded like an administrator putting his foot down. Good. But then it just went down hill from there....into name calling and finger pointing. If there were 20 kids and one babysitter in a paking lot throwing rocks at your bike, who are you going to jump on first? Too many kids, so go after the sitter. RM is our sitter, so he SHOULD take the heat. He should have handled it smoother, brushed it off, and then Bryson would still look like the jerk and there would be no other fingers being pointed in any other directions.
Bryson? 2 words buddy...Anger Management. I could almost SEE you throwing a tantrum on the floor in your fit of rage. No need to yell when a "please" would have gotten SOOOO much farther. The info was obviously obtained my a Marz fan, not a hater. But I'm willing to bet that may change now.
I've always believed that a product is only as good as the people behind it. LUCKILY for you, I just had a mind blowingly pleasant experience with a rep(Tracy) concerning my Super T that left me with nothing but warm fuzzy feelings!
But man, Bryson...I wouldn't even ride with you, dude. And THAT says a LOT.

He is a tough one to ride with. Thankfully I can hand him his ass at the drop of a hat;)

Thanks Thrillseeka, I wish I could have said it like that in the first place. It was the linked photos and not the original posted picture, he should have made it more clear.

Tracy, Ronnie, Mike, Sean, Tim, Brian, Paul and the rest of the crew are all in the trenches trying to keep everyone happy. We abide by the rules and do what we can get away with. Sorry about the headache.

Now back to our regularly scheduled opinions :D

How's the riding on the shore right now? Any???? Anybody? I'm coming up, business;)

switch

03-18-2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
How's the riding on the shore right now? Any???? Anybody? I'm coming up, business;)

It's as awesome as it's ever been. :)

Ridemonkey

03-18-2004, 09:24 PM

Hey, with this being such a critical issue that legal action was warranted, why not really drive the message home by posting the message straight from the man himself?

I expect courteous and professional communications from industry "professionals". I can post a polite email from any other professional iin the biz, so Bryson gets a special pass just cuz he's mean and nasty? Nah.....

Oh almost forgot - I can't be held liable for anything I do cuz I'm really "stupid".

Ridemonkey

03-18-2004, 09:28 PM

I'd also like to thank Sram for being so courteous in a similar situation today.

THRILLSEEKA

03-18-2004, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Hey, with this being such a critical issue that legal action was warranted, why not really drive the message home by posting the message straight from the man himself?

I expect courteous and professional communications from industry "professionals". I can post a polite email from any other professional iin the biz, so Bryson gets a special pass just cuz he's mean and nasty? Nah.....

Oh almost forgot - I can't be held liable for anything I do cuz I'm really "stupid".

I sure don't blame you for posting the letter, I just really wished you could have handled it a little cooler so you didn't come off sounding similar to Bryson, ya' know? That way, it would have been very obvious who was lacking tact...I'm sure there will be a next time, though...:(
But NEXT time, just throw your feet up, and let us kids throw the rocks...;)

civilian

03-18-2004, 10:07 PM

It's the sad truth...sh*t really does float to the top.

Ridemonkey

03-18-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
I sure don't blame you for posting the letter, I just really wished you could have handled it a little cooler so you didn't come off sounding similar to Bryson, ya' know? That way, it would have been very obvious who was lacking tact...I'm sure there will be a next time, though...:(
But NEXT time, just throw your feet up, and let us kids throw the rocks...;)

Other than using the word "ass", I was just reporting the facts. So sorry bout the ass part. The rest I stand by. Just like I didn't like R.C. "advice", I don't like Brysons abysmal attitude. Since RM doesn't have many industry affiliations, I think we'll just dish the dirt any time we feel it's appropriate.

THRILLSEEKA

03-18-2004, 10:14 PM

Hey, it's your site, say ass all you want!!!:D
I like to drag it out like: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...but then my wife pops into my head and I have dirty thoughts and....I have to go now...

Soul Rider

03-18-2004, 10:38 PM

Cat Daddy

03-19-2004, 12:02 AM

What was written:

To whom it may concern,

You have posted unauthorized pictures of my 2005 product line. The pictures were taken in Taiwan, at my booth last week. _I assume you realize that they are pictures of my 2005 line and I think you realize that releasing this information too early is a disservice to Marzocchi and your subscribers. Since specifications and product lines do change disseminating incorrect information is absolutely wrong and I will pursue any and all legal procedures I can do make sure you will not perform this unprofessional act of stupidity again.

Sincerely,
Bryson Martin
VP Marzocchi USA

What should have been written:

Dear RM Guys:

It was brought to my attention that there are postings on the Ridemonkey site of regarding our 2005 product line. The photos are obviously shot at the recent Taiwan trade show, where we exhibit our "works-in-progress" as a preview for the benefit of our OEM partners. It is some time before their formal introduction, and elements of each model are subject to change.

Also noted, much to our dismay, was the posting of documents marked "Confidential". These documents refer to specific technical specifications, again works-in-progress, of our '05 lineup. As you can imagine, the breach in our own internal security that lead to these documents being leaked has caused us great concern, as we neither want the public misled as to final specifications, nor do we want our competitors a glimpse of our technology and strategy. Rest assured we’re looking for the source of this leak.

Because of this, we’re asking you to remove this information from Ridemonkey as soon as possible, and not force Marzocchi to pursue more formal methods, as that doesn’t do anybody in the industry any good. I’m sure you understand.

Thanks for your cooperation!

Sincerely,
Bryson Martin
VP Marzocchi USA

Took all of 5 minutes to write...

switch

03-19-2004, 12:08 AM

Marzocchi, hire this man for your PR department now!

Fulton

03-19-2004, 05:44 AM

too much drama for me...............

I'm buying a dorado and headin to mtbr:eek: :thumb:

;) :D

Matt D

03-19-2004, 05:53 AM

How did the spec sheets get posted in the first place? Wouldn't they have to be from an "inside" guy?

Westy

03-19-2004, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Matt D
How did the spec sheets get posted in the first place? Wouldn't they have to be from an "inside" guy?

No publicity is bad publicity right. Genius I say.

I Are Baboon

03-19-2004, 06:41 AM

I don't know, I'm not one to tell anyone how to run their business. But if it was ME, I would have asked nicely for RM to remove the thread. It's amazing how far BEING NICE can get you in this world. Nobody likes an asshole, and if someone barked at me like that, you can bet your ass they would not get much of a response out of me.

llkoolkeg

03-19-2004, 06:46 AM

And the moral of this story?

Many techies lack the tact and language skills necessary to represent their companies in a dignified manner in public forums. Stick to what you do best- designing and producing the plushest and most reliable FR/DH suspension products on the market. Leave the PR to PR professionals. Really...would you allow an Ad Exec to do your R&D?

That being said, I will continue to purchase Marzocchi forks exclusively so long as they remain, in my estimation, superior to their competition. No sense cutting off my nose to spite my face simply because a couple of their people stumbled out of their areas of expertise.

RhinofromWA

03-19-2004, 09:11 AM

I am still confused how this is RM's problem other than him removing said material...if he wanted to out of the goodness of his heart.

The offender was the poster of the information and he should be handled accordingly.....lose his confidential info status or more.

This was a f'd up letter (never should have been sent out) sent to the wrong person. IMO.

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Howdy y'al!

Wow what did I walk into???

As far as Bryson yeah he's got one (an attitude and an asshole), and he indeed designs the stuff which is why he refers to it has "his".
His lash out was more about the linked post then the the show photos that started the photo. The link photos were straight out of "our" OEM presentation book. These books are marked everywhere as Confidential...that's the problem. The show photos are cool the spec pages are not.

Just so you all know, and for those who haven't ran out and bought a FOX or Manitou, The specs on the link pages were wrong, ride hieght, features, names....they are all "not locked in" as "the specs" so when the original thread turned into the lets bash Marzocchi for there tall forks that's when it went from bad to worse.

Comments and buzz about new product is what keeps a company alive...along with sales ya know.

I agree Bryson is an asshole. But check this out (not trying to make it a good thing) Bryson singlehandedly started this MTB suspension company...15 years ago! :D

Take care everyone I apprieciate your comments.

Tom Rogers
aka Soul Rider
aka Old School:cool:

Tom,
I wish I felt as secure in my job here as you do....:D

We have certain rules, procedures, and such with our company in regards to talking about yet to be released products. The information that was scanned came from someone in Poland who is either
a) An OEM customer
or
b) Works with our distributor in Poland.

I have his e-mail address from the pics before Acadian pulled them for me. I can bet besides the nice email Tom already sent him, Byson will be sending him one, and somebody in Italy will know the address.

Hell, I barely get to see the info that was posted by this particular person because people here think I would be the one to do something like that. But as for the pics of the forks themselves, those will always turn up, and I will continue to piss people off by not talking about them until I am cleared to do so by Bryson.

Damn... It's only 8:45am... Can I go ride now??

Brian

JRB

03-19-2004, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by mplutodh1
Our side? can I ask who you are? since you are getting on RM to post who he really is...

He is Tom Rogers from Bikemag.

He already posted it.

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by llkoolkeg
And the moral of this story?

Many techies lack the tact and language skills necessary to represent their companies in a dignified manner in public forums. Stick to what you do best- designing and producing the plushest and most reliable FR/DH suspension products on the market. Leave the PR to PR professionals. Really...would you allow an Ad Exec to do your R&D?
It's true dork's never had good people skills

HGR Frucci

03-19-2004, 10:10 AM

The guy obviously has an issue, when he calls everything "my, my, my"...

- Well, "my" opinion is - keep a better lid on your stuff if you don't want everybody to know what you've got or what you're doing.

- Find out who leaked the stuff that shouldn't have been leaked and fire them - unless it was "supposed" to be leaked in the first place.

This a weak thread. This guy has single handedly kept me off Marzocchi products for future seasons.

Wumpus

03-19-2004, 10:39 AM

http://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/needpics.gif

:D :D :D

Just Lookin'...

03-19-2004, 10:53 AM

Not buying a product that can be demonstrated to perform as expected [or better] because of the actions of a single individual who works for is a personal choice that makes very little sense to me.

One caveat: if the actions were versus myself or a friend, i would have justifiable personal issues.

However, said issues would be with the individual, not the product.

Now, if the product performed below expectations, then it's pretty straightforward.

Steve Jobs is an ass. Bill Gates is an ass. Ken Thompson is an ass.

Damn. Now i can't use any computers anymore because i'm making an emotional response [see [i]illogical] to a perceived social injustice.

My position:

1) Bryson should not have sent any email at all. Obviously, he is too emotionally involved and reacts with a knee-jerk [emphasis on the jerk]. What he should have done is get someone in the company who's job actually encompasses PR work to write the necessary notification. That's what you have a sales and marketing department for in the first place.

To wit: Brian P. Duh.

2) Tom, you too. Feel free to express your opinions. Remember that they reflect on you and your job. Technical Director doesn't need to involve himself in this sort of thing. Quite frankly, it's unprofessional and a waste of your time.

3) Aaron [RM]: admittedly, it was a punkass letter that you received. I don't think posting it was, however, a good idea. While to the majority of us 'users' you come off just peachy, the position of posting your private emails would make me [i]extremely hesitant to exchange any such communication with you.

There is precedent for this on many other sites [somethingawful.com for instance] and i'm not citing you for it. It's actually entertaining, in the same way a road accident is.

But, because i play devil's advocate: You had a chance to take the higher road here and you didn't.

In the long run, engineers should have restricted access to the public, and public access mavens such as you and Freak should ignore most of the spittle that comes from the wrong mouthpieces.

I remember how turdesque stratos became when the 'owner-engineer' downsized his marketing department to zero.

now, that was a road accident i just couldn't drag my eyes away from.

Ridemonkey

03-19-2004, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...
3) Aaron [RM]: admittedly, it was a punkass letter that you received. I don't think posting it was, however, a good idea. While to the majority of us 'users' you come off just peachy, the position of posting your private emails would make me [i]extremely hesitant to exchange any such communication with you.

That is exactly the response I was hoping for. I don't want any more emails from Marzocchi - so hopefully mission accomplished.

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 11:14 AM

Let me see if I get this straight.... RM prides himself on having industry insiders and such reading his site, but wants no communication from them?

Yes, the email was wrong and IMO misdirected, but much like people who feel Bryson has an attitude the universe revolves around him, I have seen a similar attitude from web site owners.

Two wrongs don't make a right.....

Brian

brysonm

03-19-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Lexx D
Makes me not want to buy another marz. Don't threaten legal action over a couple of photos. It's bullshyt to act this way when it was your company that put the product out there. It doesn't matter what country it was in.
Like I said, it makes me want to buy my next fork from a different company:(

You can buy a fork from a different company, but I'm sure I am speaking for all my competitors as well as everyone in this industry. The Taiwan Bike Show is an industry show, not a public one. There are strict rules about taking photos of products that will or will not be released in the future. Futhermore, there was a posting of my 2005 OEM book as well as Rock Shox's, both of which contain confidential information. Do you feel that is OK? Is it correct that someone thought it was cute to take the time to scan the books and post them? I'm not bent about the photo as much as the books from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi. I am also not pleased with the fact that Web Sites who are part of the Moutain Bike Industry have no issue with this. I'm sure you would feel the same as I do if you spend all year working on a complete line of kick ass products and someone takes a confidential 30 page book containing specs, drawings, technology, etc and posts it online.

Think about it.

Freak

03-19-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by brysonm
I'm not bent about the photo as much as the books from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi.I am also not pleased with the fact that Web Sites who are part of the Moutain Bike Industry have no issue with this.

Hey Bryson,

We totally see your side about posting the confidential stuff, and of course it should not have been posted. But please see ours also. We can not monitor every single post on this forum, much less know if something is confidential or not if we can't see that it says it's confidential.

The Sram/Rockshox post got deleted without any problems after a nice e-mail was received by myself and the circumstances were explained in a nice manner.

Your e-mail however was pretty harsh, and threatening. Should we all work together on issues like this instead of threatening lawsuit e-mails?

brysonm

03-19-2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
It sounds like NONE of this was handled very well from the get-go....
Bryson is obviously not very adept at dealing with humans or how to get things done in much simpler ways, but see his point. It's not the pics or the scans that bother him...it's WRONG INFORMATION. There was already mention of ride heights, etc, which means opinions are already forming, even if only subconsciously. And they are based on nothing, so I see his concern.
RM's post on the main page of this wbsite made it SOUND like he had genuine concern. His"Knock it off..." statement sounded like an administrator putting his foot down. Good. But then it just went down hill from there....into name calling and finger pointing. If there were 20 kids and one babysitter in a paking lot throwing rocks at your bike, who are you going to jump on first? Too many kids, so go after the sitter. RM is our sitter, so he SHOULD take the heat. He should have handled it smoother, brushed it off, and then Bryson would still look like the jerk and there would be no other fingers being pointed in any other directions.
Bryson? 2 words buddy...Anger Management. I could almost SEE you throwing a tantrum on the floor in your fit of rage. No need to yell when a "please" would have gotten SOOOO much farther. The info was obviously obtained my a Marz fan, not a hater. But I'm willing to bet that may change now.
I've always believed that a product is only as good as the people behind it. LUCKILY for you, I just had a mind blowingly pleasant experience with a rep(Tracy) concerning my Super T that left me with nothing but warm fuzzy feelings!
But man, Bryson...I wouldn't even ride with you, dude. And THAT says a LOT.

It's not about anger, it's about industry wide common sense. This web site is supposed to be part of the industry and with that comes some responsibility. Do you think posting an entire 2005 OEM book from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi is an act of industry common sense? Am I wrong to be pissed-off about companies not acting in a professional manner? I am not just speaking for myself or Marzocchi, I'm sure I have the voice for the entire industry when it comes to confidential information being posted on a web sites. Web sites such as Ride Monkey are great and with that greatness comes a sense of responsibility for this incredible industry. You obviously love mountian bikes, but so do I, I have done nothing for the last 25 years but focus 100% on riding, designing, promoting, and occasionally working in the world of bicycles and I'm sure if you really understood what I am saying, you would feel the same and you would ride with me.

Bryson

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 11:38 AM

well since bomber dropped the swiss cheese arch it was obvious to me their stuff was becoming overhyped and they were turning into a money greedy bizness.

Oh well maybe Manitou or RS has comething cool to offer now...

Christian :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by brysonm
It's not about anger, it's about industry wide common sense. This web site is supposed to be part of the industry and with that comes some responsibility. Do you think posting an entire 2005 OEM book from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi is an act of industry common sense? Am I wrong to be pissed-off about companies not acting in a professional manner? I am not just speaking for myself or Marzocchi, I'm sure I have the voice for the entire industry when it comes to confidential information being posted on a web sites. Web sites such as Ride Monkey are great and with that greatness comes a sense of responsibility for this incredible industry. You obviously love mountian bikes, but so do I, I have done nothing for the last 25 years but focus 100% on riding, designing, promoting, and occasionally working in the world of bicycles and I'm sure if you really understood what I am saying, you would feel the same and you would ride with me.

Bryson

It's hylarious how you're convinced that RM actually OWES you something!!!!!!!!!

Squeak

03-19-2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Shortbus
It's hylarious how you're convinced that RM actually OWES you something!!!!!!!!!

Maybe if they bought ad space...:monkey:

brysonm

03-19-2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
That is exactly the response I was hoping for. I don't want any more emails from Marzocchi - so hopefully mission accomplished.

It goes to show you the unprofessionalism I was so pissed about. I knew he would post my e-mail, this type of retaliation its just what an insecure person would do in hopes that it would make me feel like I did something wrong. Ride Monkey should have a sense of responsibility for posting confidential information, I am sure the hard working folks at Ride Monkey would be fine with someone getting a copy of thier business plan, or personal e-mails, or customer lists, or how much money they are making from advertisers and posting it online. Do you think a Ride Monkey executive would take it in stride or maybe they would find it unprofessional and fire off an e-mail about it.

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 11:48 AM

then why did you SEND him that email????

Looks like you're having issues taking responsabilities for things YOU do.

"SEE!!! MY EMAIL IS MAKING CUSTOMERS MAD!!! LET'S SUE RIDEMONKEY!"

what the hell ever dude!!!

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 11:49 AM

this is making me REAL mad cause i love marzocchi forks!!!!!:mad: :mad:

Riff Raff

03-19-2004, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Shortbus
this is making me REAL mad cause i love marzocchi forks!!!!!:mad: :mad:

Me Too.:(

brysonm

03-19-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Freak
Hey Bryson,

We totally see your side about posting the confidential stuff, and of course it should not have been posted. But please see ours also. We can not monitor every single post on this forum, much less know if something is confidential or not if we can't see that it says it's confidential.

The Sram/Rockshox post got deleted without any problems after a nice e-mail was received by myself and the circumstances were explained in a nice manner.

Your e-mail however was pretty harsh, and threatening. Should we all work together on issues like this instead of threatening lawsuit e-mails?

The reason I fired-off a Bomber e-mail was that I was told by some of my Europen staff that they contacted the site and they were told none of the photos or information will be removed. This of course fired me up and I threatened legal action if you planned on not removing our confidential information. So I can at least say I'm sorry if my information was wrong and my first e-mail to you was harsh. But you can't hide from issue that you can't monitor the information that is displayed on this site. Ride Monkey is read by everyone around the world, when my info was posted I received e-mails from persons around the globe concerned about it.

BikeGeek

03-19-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by brysonm
It goes to show you the unprofessionalism I was so pissed about.

Didn't you start all this with your email referring to his "unprofessional act of stupidity?"

Ride Monkey should have a sense of responsibility for posting confidential information

The pictures were removed, what more do you want?

Do you think a Ride Monkey executive would take it in stride or maybe they would find it unprofessional and fire off an e-mail about it.

You're missing the point. The problem wasn't that you sent an email, it's that you sent an email attacking him.

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 11:59 AM

DUDE!!!! you WROTE THE FORKING EMAIL!!!!

holy jesus this is making me all fired up

YOU WROTE THAT EMAIL

it's not Ridemonkey's fault your email was nasty and sucks a$$

Don't write nasty emails and you won't get nasty emails back

JESUS

why don't you sue walmart while you're at it.,

butthead

03-19-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
This was a f'd up letter (never should have been sent out) sent to the wrong person. IMO.

I don't think it was sent to the wrong person. RM is the owner of the site and bringing the unauthorized information to his attention is exactly what Bryson should have done.

You're right that the letter never should have left his computer. A vice president of anything from a large company like Marzocchi should be capable of being professional and courteous. The "to whom it may concern" heading suggests that this letter was probably sent to several message board administrators and not solely to RM. I can understand his anger, but to lash out and threaten people rather than handling the situation tactfully just seems foolish to me.

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by brysonm
You can buy a fork from a different company, but I'm sure I am speaking for all my competitors as well as everyone in this industry. The Taiwan Bike Show is an industry show, not a public one. There are strict rules about taking photos of products that will or will not be released in the future. Futhermore, there was a posting of my 2005 OEM book as well as Rock Shox's, both of which contain confidential information. Do you feel that is OK? Is it correct that someone thought it was cute to take the time to scan the books and post them? I'm not bent about the photo as much as the books from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi. I am also not pleased with the fact that Web Sites who are part of the Moutain Bike Industry have no issue with this. I'm sure you would feel the same as I do if you spend all year working on a complete line of kick ass products and someone takes a confidential 30 page book containing specs, drawings, technology, etc and posts it online.

Think about it.
I ride A shiver DC now. I love it. I will probably buy another if i ever kill this one.....my point is for you to lash out and threaten with legal action is crazy. I saw the picture and instantly wanted one. Even if it's not until 2008, that is where my problem is. This posting was advertising and sold me along with numerous other monkey's. I understand you were mad but again to threaten legal action toward the people who spend money on your produst is just.....:nono:

tmx

03-19-2004, 12:01 PM

shorbus, i love your dancing banana poop

Freak

03-19-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by brysonm
The reason I fired-off a Bomber e-mail was that I was told by some of my Europen staff that they contacted the site and they were told none of the photos or information will be removed. This of course fired me up and I threatened legal action if you planned on not removing our confidential information. So I can at least say I'm sorry if my information was wrong and my first e-mail to you was harsh. But you can't hide from issue that you can't monitor the information that is displayed on this site. Ride Monkey is read by everyone around the world, when my info was posted I received e-mails from persons around the globe concerned about it.

I can't say that I know anything about the 1st e-mail from the European staff. I know I didn't receive anything, of course it could have just been sent to a different e-mail account.

As far as us being able or not able to monitor the site completely, well, we both have other full time jobs outside of the industry so we can't monitor everything that goes on. Now if we had a lot more paying advertisers (trust me, there aren't very many) then maybe we could quit our day job and monitor all of the posts.

But anyway, in the future if something that's confidential gets posted, just fire off a POLITE e-mail and it will get removed.

Shortbus

03-19-2004, 12:03 PM

Chrome, do something!!!!!! I'm ready to take my super T apart with a blow torch and punch it down my garbage disposal!!!!

:p :p

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 12:14 PM

I hear white Bros are pretty nice these days

tmx

03-19-2004, 12:15 PM

sorry darling dancing banana poop, the magic pixie dust doesn't seem to be functioning at the moment. they'll work it all out.

keep that fork out of the garbage disposal for now.

Ridemonkey

03-19-2004, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
Let me see if I get this straight.... RM prides himself on having industry insiders and such reading his site, but wants no communication from them?

Yes, the email was wrong and IMO misdirected, but much like people who feel Bryson has an attitude the universe revolves around him, I have seen a similar attitude from web site owners.

Two wrongs don't make a right.....

Brian

Is that what what I pride myself on? News to me. There's lots of companies I'm happy to have correspondence with. Marzocchi is not one of them - unless the Marz crew learns some tact.

llkoolkeg

03-19-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
That is exactly the response I was hoping for. I don't want any more emails from Marzocchi - so hopefully mission accomplished.
Oh ferchrissakes...I don't agree with this position either.

Can't everyone just pack up their bruised egos, go home for nappytime and come out to play later as if nothing happened? That worked well enough when we were children. Why does it grow more difficult to bury grudges as we grow in age and(supposedly) wisdom? :confused:

Ridemonkey

03-19-2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by llkoolkeg
Oh ferchrissakes...I don't agree with this position either.

Can't everyone just pack up their bruised egos, go home for nappytime and come out to play later as if nothing happened? That worked well enough when we were children. Why does it grow more difficult to bury grudges as we grow in age and(supposedly) wisdom? :confused:

I don't get it. Marzocchi has benefited from hundreds of threads on this site - and the only thing I have ever gotten from them in return is an email threatening legal action? I simply have no interest in the company. What's the big deal?

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 12:24 PM

I think we would all feel better if he gave the monkeys new forks....Let the voting begin:thumb: :sneaky:

Freak

03-19-2004, 12:25 PM

Everybody have fun!!! I'm going to help teach riding techniques to some Jr High students!!!

L8r!

freak@ridemonkey.com

ssaddict

03-19-2004, 12:39 PM

HippieKai

03-19-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Freak
Everybody have fun!!! I'm going to help teach riding techniques to some Jr High students!!!

L8r!

freak@ridemonkey.com

going to go hang out with a more mature crowed than this i see:D

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by ssaddict
They will probably benifit from these pictures in question, the only real damage (before this mess) was a bunch of 16yr olds will be e-mailing Marz. for the next couple months asking if their DJ is tall enough for a 3" tire.
It's True. (nerd voice)"I want one but I heard it will be too tall for my bike"

JRB

03-19-2004, 12:41 PM

llkoolkeg

03-19-2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
I don't get it. Marzocchi has benefited from hundreds of threads on this site - and the only thing I have ever gotten from them in return is an email threatening legal action? I simply have no interest in the company. What's the big deal?

I made my position known on the emails(not that anyone should really care what it is). It made the sender and his VP appear foolish. If Marzocchi benefits from threads, though, it's because they make a great product that people like and talk up. I know that I've said both good and bad things about their stuff based upon my assessment of their respective product merits. What exactly are you expecting from them? An apology? Not likely. Ad revenues? If they don't advertise here, that's certainly within their rights. Lots of companies have benefitted from threads on websites they don't advertise on just as lots have been hurt by them. I know that I am having a hell of a time practically giving away a very nice frame made by a company that has suffered mightily from negative online publicity(shameless, shameless, plug, plug, plug:D) I was basically just saying that it is never a bad thing to maintain good or at least open relations with major players in your industry. Even though you personally may have no interest in them, lots of people on RM like Zokes products and benefit from a cordial relationship with their insiders, most notably, Brian P. I know that I would personally miss Brian sharing the knowledge if he went away because he felt unwelcome here. I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business...just offering the courteous and friendly advice people have come to expect from me. ;)

Zark

03-19-2004, 01:12 PM

Goddamn guys. This whole thing upsets me. Nice people are getting REALLY bent out of shape over what amounts to bad communication and tact. Mellow the f**k out!:D

I love Ridemonkey, I love Marzocchi, I don't want to choose a favorite.
Everyone: Go ride your bikes and pretend this didn't happen, we'll all be better off.

"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight:( "

Westy

03-19-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Zark
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight:( "
http://www.whatsbetter.com/static/images/790.gif

llkoolkeg

03-19-2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Zark
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight:( "

Is your name Luca? Do you live on the second floor? ;)

Zark

03-19-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by llkoolkeg
Is your name Luca? Do you live on the second floor? ;)

LMAO:D Classic!

See? Don't we all feel better now?:D

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 01:25 PM

i still want my free fork.....but will it be too tall for my bike:D

Ridemonkey

03-19-2004, 01:31 PM

These are my last comments on this thread:

1. Ever since Bryson sent that absurd email to MBA a while back - I've wondered what the heck is up with this guy. When I get a similarly absurd email, I decide that he needs to learn that if he treats everyone around him with contempt - that eventually its going to catch up with him.

2. There are 10 good companies for every one that acts like Marz. I'll deal with that other 10.

3. I don't want an apology. I don't want anything from them. But I definately DO NOT want any more emails from Bryson. Hopefully this thread took care of that problem.

4. I'm not telling anyone to not buy Marzocchi products - that would be absurd.

Bryson likes to swagger around like he's king turd of this industry - and I've made it clear that he can swagger elsewhere.

End of story.

Repack

03-19-2004, 02:11 PM

Wow! That has to be one the worst composed emails I have ever read! Bryson's language could have been just as effective without using words like "stupid". I can understand if he didn't want pictures put on the net, but what do you expect when you shoe something off? If the email was about the 66 pictures, the person who took them obviously was standing out in the open and framing them up. Its not like they look like they were taken with a camera phone or something.

Valid Marzocchi point, piss-poor delivery

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 02:14 PM

Nothing left to say but......I think my next frame is going to have a 1.5...too bad they don't make a fork to fit it.:D

Transcend

03-19-2004, 02:16 PM

This thread makes my brain hurt.

Cliff notes for those just checking in.

1- marzo see confidential info on rm
2- they send nasty email to remove
3- rm posts email and gets angry (he lives in oregon, Id be pissed too if i lived in oregon)
4- Marzo people logon to do some damage control
5- drama and debate ensure
6 - ...no profit.

Repack

03-19-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
.......His lash out was more about the linked post then the the show photos that started the photo. The link photos were straight out of "our" OEM presentation book. These books are marked everywhere as Confidential...that's the problem. The show photos are cool the spec pages are not..........
Now that I can def understand. I wonder if there were any rules at the show. Like if everyone in attendance had to sign an "I won't take/disseminate pictures" agreement. I don't know if the laws have changed, but in the US the last I heard it is legal to take a picture from anywhere where it is legal to stand. Meaning if you trespass and take pictures, those pictures are illegal, but if you are standing on a public street, or inside a building that you were invited into, it is legal to take pictures, provided the host has not stated that no picures taking is a condition of admitance.

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 02:27 PM

Seeing your product pics on RM=free
Writing an angry email=free
Trying to smooth things over=free

Possibly losing customers for life= priceless:)

I'm sorry i had to do it:devil:

Silver

03-19-2004, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Lexx D
Seeing your product pics on RM=free
Writing an angry email=free
Trying to smooth things over=free

Possibly losing customers for life= priceless:)

I'm sorry i had to do it:devil:

You do realize that you are infringing on MasterCard's creative property there...thanks a ton. Now Ridemonkey is going to get a bitchy time of the month letter from a Mastercard VP calling him stupid and we can do this all over again. :D

JRB

03-19-2004, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Repack
Now that I can def understand. I wonder if there were any rules at the show. Like if everyone in attendance had to sign an "I won't take/disseminate pictures" agreement. I don't know if the laws have changed, but in the US the last I heard it is legal to take a picture from anywhere where it is legal to stand. Meaning if you trespass and take pictures, those pictures are illegal, but if you are standing on a public street, or inside a building that you were invited into, it is legal to take pictures, provided the host has not stated that no picures taking is a condition of admitance.

read the thread - they had the specs up

I think they could care less about the pics. They put specs and incorrect information up. Cut em some slack. They are trying to protect their business.

Lexx D

03-19-2004, 02:36 PM

hahahaha:)

Oh i'm sorry....i will take the brunt of the legal costs:eek:

No i won't, I'm Rick James Bitch.....cold blooded.

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 02:37 PM

OK...OK... Once again.... It wasn't the pictures of the forks that brought this about.... It was the person (Not RM) who posted 3 pages of our OEM book. That book is confidental and is meant for OEM custumers and international distributors ONLY. Much like I understand Rock Shox isn't very happy that a couple pages of their OEM book was posted for competitors such as myself to see.

Resume ranting and raving....

Brian

Silver

03-19-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by loco-gringo
read the thread - they had the specs up

I think they could care less about the pics. They put specs and incorrect information up. Cut em some slack. They are trying to protect their business.

A nice courteous email, with perhaps the caveat that those were preliminary OEM specs would have probably made it up on the front page, and the VP of the company wouldn't have come across as an ass. Stuff like this is the reason that press releases get written. That way you don't fly off the handle and get egg all over your face later.

Notice the email that Ridemonkey implied he got from SRAM isn't up on the front page? Why would that be?

JRB

03-19-2004, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Silver
A nice courteous email, with perhaps the caveat that those were preliminary OEM specs would have probably made it up on the front page, and the VP of the company wouldn't have come across as an ass. Stuff like this is the reason that press releases get written. That way you don't fly off the handle and get egg all over your face later.

Notice the email that Ridemonkey implied he got from SRAM isn't up on the front page? Why would that be?

Agreed but my point is that marz didn't have the only breech in professionalism.

Repack

03-19-2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by loco-gringo
read the thread - they had the specs up

I think they could care less about the pics. They put specs and incorrect information up. Cut em some slack. They are trying to protect their business.
I was quoting a part of a post that mentioned the specs and was agreeing that Marzocchi has a right to be pissed. Then I went off speculating about picture laws. I agree that Marzocchi had every right to do what they did and I agree woth them. I do not agree with the methods.

switch

03-19-2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Bryson likes to swagger around like he's king turd of this industry - and I've made it clear that he can swagger elsewhere.

That's been apparent from his e-mail to you, and his postings.

The other Marzocchi rep who was posting has been both pleasant and tactful.

It's unfortunate that Mr. Bryson represents himself, and more so Marzocchi, so poorly. Having someone who behaves that way working at an organization reduces my respect for that organization.

Transcend

03-19-2004, 02:57 PM

This thread is a train wreck. Kill it with fire.

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 03:00 PM

Frasier,
I have the gasoline to throw on that fire....

BuddhaRoadkill

03-19-2004, 03:06 PM

... I've got a match.

One request:

Please keep industry bickering private.
I'll leave it at that as I'm fairly pissed off about the misleading title of this thread.

Echo

03-19-2004, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by BuddhaRoadkill
... I've got a match.

One request:

Please keep industry bickering private.
I'll leave it at that as I'm fairly pissed off about the misleading title of this thread.
Pissed? About what? If an industry VP sends a f*cking email to an industry website, he better be f*cking ready for it to be treated as industry news.

How about if Bryson's email had said "These confidential images that were posted contained preliminary information which is not accurate. When the specs for the 2005 line are ready for public consumption, we will make them public. If the Ridemonkey admins would be so kind as to delete these images as quickly as possible, we would greatly appreciate it.".

Voila. Now veryone knows that the images should not have been posted, contained confidential information, contained incorrect information, and 50 bucks says they would have been deleted quickly and politely.

And if RM posted that email on the news page, it would have been fine and dandy for everyone, because it would have been informative, to the point, and wouldn't have made Bryson look like an asshat.

JRB

03-19-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Echo
Pissed? About what? If an industry VP sends a f*cking email to an industry website, he better be f*cking ready for it to be treated as industry news.

How about if Bryson's email had said "These confidential images that were posted contained preliminary information which is not accurate. When the specs for the 2005 line are ready for public consumption, we will make them public. If the Ridemonkey admins would be so kind as to delete these images as quickly as possible, we would greatly appreciate it.".

Voila. Now veryone knows that the images should not have been posted, contained confidential information, contained incorrect information, and 50 bucks says they would have been deleted quickly and politely.

And if RM posted that email on the news page, it would have been fine and dandy for everyone, because it would have been informative, to the point, and wouldn't have made Bryson look like an asshat.

I've had it up to here with your logic mister.;)

Echo

03-19-2004, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by loco-gringo
I've had it up to here with your logic mister.;)
Yeah me too :D

partsbara

03-19-2004, 03:51 PM

jeeezzz... you people ALL need to take a really long holiday in australia

Transcend

03-19-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by partsbara
jeeezzz... you people ALL need to take a really long holiday in australia

can I crash on your couch and watch the toilet swirl the wrong way?

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by partsbara
jeeezzz... you people ALL need to take a really long holiday in australia

Where do I sign up???

Echo

03-19-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by partsbara
jeeezzz... you people ALL need to take a really long holiday in australia
Hell yeah. I hear the downhillers over there are almost as good as in the states.

:devil:

Silver

03-19-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Transcend
can I crash on your couch and watch the toilet swirl the wrong way?

He's got a couch in the bathroom? :confused:

Zark

03-19-2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Silver
He's got a couch in the bathroom? :confused:

Nope, a toilet next to the couch. Aussies aren't shy about going in public;)

Transcend

03-19-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Zark
Nope, a toilet next to the couch. Aussies aren't shy about going in public;)

that and they drink all that pi$$ beer. Need to barf somewhere.

SSFRerAny?s

03-19-2004, 05:37 PM

Bummer that Marzhocchi's top dog had to send in a response like that. Makes me sad I bought one. He should learn not to bite the hand that feeds him. Common sense, or any sense for that matter, would tell him that if you don't want pictures taken of your products don't put them out in the public eye. Welcome to the global world D*p Sh*t!!!

Lastly, it also explains why they have to spend so much $$$ on their advertisements, i.e. models and etc, because they have to overcome a-holes like this schmuck.

Happy Trails Marzocchi B*tch.

SSFRerAny?s

03-19-2004, 05:49 PM

Bryson,

You had better hope that no one posts your picture up here, for if they do, you had better watch your back. Afterall you will have a bunch crazy monkeys and a SSFRer lookin' to put their Marzhocchi stanchions in your backside. It doesn't take much for the tables to turn, where you will soon find yourself losing those customers that decided to be just as loyal as Marzhocchi's VP, hence they took their loyalty eslewhere.

If we don't meet, watch your sales numbers, you'll hear from us,
SSFRer

Brian Peterson

03-19-2004, 05:58 PM

SSFRerAny?s

03-19-2004, 06:04 PM

Yes, I must admit after I wrote this, I began laughing at and to myself also. However, I think if you're pissed about it, don't buy their products. Sooner or later it will get them thinking.

DH Diva

03-19-2004, 06:50 PM

"2. There are 10 good companies for every one that acts like Marz. I'll deal with that other 10."

Okay, I need some help here. Is there REALLY ten better fork companies out there? I don't know if I can even think of ten fork companies!

P.S. Sorry for the digression, but I thought it was funny! :D

Soul Rider

03-19-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by SSFRerAny?s
Bummer that Marzhocchi's top dog had to send in a response like that. Makes me sad I bought one. He should learn not to bite the hand that feeds him. Common sense, or any sense for that matter, would tell him that if you don't want pictures taken of your products don't put them out in the public eye. Welcome to the global world D*p Sh*t!!!

Lastly, it also explains why they have to spend so much $$$ on their advertisements, i.e. models and etc, because they have to overcome a-holes like this schmuck.

Happy Trails Marzocchi B*tch.

Spoken like a true teenager. We need to wash your mouth out with soap kiddo. Read the entire thread. You've missed the entire disscusion and where all the mistakes were made.
The show was not public...and the link photos were scanned and posted even though they said confidential and had a NDA attached to it. (Insert clouds parting and angles singing here)

Buy what you want. Next year we might only sell 999,999 forks. If you coud see through this bunk post you might be the lucky guy that has the alarm go off annoucing you as the 1,000,000 owner of a Marzocchi suspension system. You could have had the fruit cake!
Cheers and more beers...I'm not looking for trouble. Just amazed on how long and drawn out ths discussion has become.

Now back to it gizmos!!!

THRILLSEEKA

03-19-2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by SSFRerAny?s
Bryson,

You had better hope that no one posts your picture up here, for if they do, you had better watch your back. Afterall you will have a bunch crazy monkeys and a SSFRer lookin' to put their Marzhocchi stanchions in your backside. It doesn't take much for the tables to turn, where you will soon find yourself losing those customers that decided to be just as loyal as Marzhocchi's VP, hence they took their loyalty eslewhere.

If we don't meet, watch your sales numbers, you'll hear from us,
SSFRer

Wow, nuthin like showin up to the big street fight 2 hours late holding a stick.:rolleyes:

OK, you're definately not helping and you sound like a dork. Bryson, you are no longer the asshat. I vote we start a thread smacking this guy around....but not after 10:00pm, as has to be in bed.

I still love Marzocchi products, but the general hype surrounding the company is getting WAY out of hand. EVERYONE knows who you are. Stop all the crap, and unnecessary advertising and use the money to continue producing superb product. Let the word of mouth do it for you. If you truly have faith in your products, then have the faith in the consumers to to take notice and share with others. I bought my Super T purely through word-of-mouth as i don't even believe advertising hype anyway. It's all about the users, not the pornstars holding a mountain bike fork(as if pornstars are going to chill with muddy, sweaty, fully grown adults on bicycles anyway...).
I think most people would rather buy from a company that only places focus on quality, rather than the quantity of buyers for their product. And, if you try to step back and actually look at some of these companies as a whole, you can see that it has become MORE about the quantity of buyers than about the quality of the product being sold. Still a first class product, still exceptional service, but too much hype...even if it is easy on the eyes...:D

Tully

03-19-2004, 10:10 PM

I'm not surprised he said something so unprofessional. A while back, after Manitou introduced their Sherman line, he wrote to Mountain Bike Action. He basically said that Marzocchi is the only real freeride company who knows what they're doing, and Manitou doesn't know crap about freeriding, and they ought to stick to what they do, and stay out of a market that Marzocchi already owns (that's what I remember, so my apologies if I misparaphrased something). Now that is crappy PR, plus it's as unprofessional as it gets. Not only does it portray Bryson Martin as a jackass, it portrays is company as afraid of competition.

switch

03-19-2004, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Tully I'm not surprised he said something so unprofessional. A while back, after Manitou introduced their Sherman line, he wrote to Mountain Bike Action.

Is this the same person that essentially said a 6" SC fork wasn't a good idea?

Tully

03-19-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by switch
Is this the same person that essentially said a 6" SC fork wasn't a good idea?

I think so.

partsbara

03-20-2004, 03:13 AM

ok you bastids :)... no wonder aussies are the best dh'ers in the WORLD... they ride rather than just b1tching on internet forums :devil:

damn, what happened to me ???#$%!

johnbryanpeters

03-20-2004, 05:21 AM

To the voices from Marzocchi:

I bought a Z1 because of comments posted on Ridemonkey.

I agree that it's unfortunate that your preliminary specifications were posted on the forum. It is also unfortunate that you chose to communicate that fact in an uncivil fashion.

Mr. Bryson:

I think Soul Rider mentioned that you don't use PCs, only a Palm Pilot. If that is a fact, I suggest that you learn to use a PC and spend a lot of time on the various mountain bike forums. That's where your market is getting its facts and forming its opinions.

Both the Marzocchi and RockShox/SRAM (since their name has come up) web sites are abyssimal horror shows for the purpose of finding actual information, as is your printed "information" available to me if I wander into a bike shop looking for a fork. Determining the difference between your offerings when I want to make a selection is maddening.

Instead of beating up on my sources of information, why don't you focus on getting some of your real released information out there where we can find it? You can start by firing the company that sold you your web site.

Regards,

John Bryan Peters

Shortbus

03-20-2004, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
Reason # 152,756,654,369 not to take the Internet too seriously... :rolleyes:

Have a good weekend....

OH but wait, you're the ones who are sending ass-y emails about this whole deal to begin with. Practise what u preach bro.

SPUTNECK

03-20-2004, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

Now your beef should be with the individual linking/posting the info. Not addressing the moderators solely regarding this matter. The person posting the info is the one in trouble....or maybe I missed something? They have the private/confidential information and made it public. It just seems your attention is missdirected. Maybe you have contacted the person at fault....

RhinofromWA [/B]

Hey Rhino, while I really don't want to get in the middle of opposing attitudes, I might be able to offer yet again, another perspective. I work in the Media (TV) and allot of times we get what is called "embargo'd info". That is we can't air it until it is officially released to the public by the originating source. At trade industry shows, it is common professional courtesy to repect this and seek advice from the source on a "publish date". Also on RM responsibility, actually they do have a responsibility as a "information distributer and facilitator" to moderate and guard against this happening. In other words, I have a responsibility in the media to be accurate, fair, and not infringe on confidential "revenue related" info....(in our case) if it news worthy from a public safety stance or investigative in nature, the gloves are off. All this may seem a bit diluted, but there are hundreds of rules in "freedom of the press" that most people, including myself sometimes don't understand.( like I can use a logo for ATT in a news story, but not in promo that promotes the story). Because of the difference between promotion and news. I think the original email to RM could have been more understanding and professional, I also understand that you cannot make exceptions for RM and have a different reaction toward Transcend Mag. So you have to choose to be equally an ass or nice. Whoever posted the confidential info was not acting responsibly, and RM unintentionally helped them to futher their lack of responsibility....If my employer did the same thing as RM....we could be sued by the company,and in a civil trial, we would probably loose.....its a crazy, mind blowing system.

Hope this helps...if not....oh well...you win some, you lose most.
Bill.

narlus

03-20-2004, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Echo
Pissed? About what? If an industry VP sends a f*cking email to an industry website, he better be f*cking ready for it to be treated as industry news.

even if it's a private email, and not a press release? how is that industry news? how would this be different to this scenario:

if for some reason, say, weagle had a legit issue w/ something on the site related to evil or e13, fired off a nastygram/PM (which we all know wouldn't happen, as dave's not like that, but bear w/ me) to RM, and then RM posts that PM and starts a thread about it?

someone else mentioned the opportunity for the higher road to be taken. nail, meet hammer.

Echo

03-20-2004, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by narlus
even if it's a private email, and not a press release? how is that industry news? how would this be different to this scenario:

if for some reason, say, weagle had a legit issue w/ something on the site related to evil or e13, fired off a nastygram/PM (which we all know wouldn't happen, as dave's not like that, but bear w/ me) to RM, and then RM posts that PM and starts a thread about it?

someone else mentioned the opportunity for the higher road to be taken. nail, meet hammer.
While I do see your point, I think you kind of made my point for me too :p

If the CEO of Sun Microsystems sent a poorly worded email to David Letterman threatening legal action for something silly (which would obviously never happen because Sun Microsystems' CEO has enough of a brain not to do something so stupid), what do you think Letterman would do with it?

narlus

03-20-2004, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Echo
what do you think Letterman would do with it?

well, for one, he wouldn't treat it as "industry news", and two, letterman is in the wiseass business. analogy near miss. :)

btw, the wording of this thread is not exactly in good judgement either, is it?

i am not absolving mr martin of the tone of his cease-and-desist email (but according to him, he did think one request went unheeded, so if that is true, it makes it easier to swallow); i think we've all seen ways on how the wording could have improved greatly. but did it need to blow up into a 5 page rant?

"I guess we were all guilty, in a way. We all shot him, we all skinned him, and we all got a complimentary bumper sticker that said, "I helped skin Bob."

:)

Arutha

03-20-2004, 09:19 PM

Damn it. I just had a good 3 paragraphs written and the electricity went out. So I will just paraphrase.

RM was wrong to post the email from a professional point of view, but RM really isn't a company now is it? Hell 14 year olds can create a message board. (Not a rip on RM at all. I love this place)

Marzhocci never should have sent an email like that. Get some professionalism, you I expect to have it. You ARE a world wide company.... If you don't have anyone with tact then you should hire someone who does. You make great forks, and customer service so far has been great, but I have to admit silly outbursts like that will make me pause when picking forks. Granted a few thousand dollars loss isn't a big deal to you but when this type of stuff gets out you never know the true effects. Hell, the owners of RM might get a purchasing job for Specialized or some other large company, then you might just lose a very large deal.

I have to admit on a personal level I am kinda glad RM posted the email. I like to know the type of people who are responsible for things I might buy.

Instigator

03-20-2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Echo
Hey, maybe I can sue Mtbkngrl for posting that picture of when I was passed out drunk and she wrote all over me with a Sharpie.

No you can't! You should send an email to RM telling them your going to file legal action for posting them :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I have really wanted an 888, but I guess I will be buying another Boxxer.

THRILLSEEKA

03-20-2004, 10:36 PM

I think Bryson's next move should be simple. A very simple, and basic, PUBLIC apology. It has become very well known that Bryson has made some pretty lame comments and if he really cares about the company as much as he professes, then he should have NO hestitaion in saving its face, should he?

I would have to say that any time even one potential customer is swayed in the opposite direction by a company's OWN employee(let alone a VP!), that employee has failed in every sense of the word. I mean, it is not even about the product! When someone within a company can represent it so badly, there is no room for that person to have any future at all there, if that company would like to have a future for itself.
So, Bryson, you claim devotion to your beloved Marzocchi, yet you alone will bury it. Sometimes, to prove your love, you must set it free....

Trond

03-21-2004, 05:24 AM

Sometimes a good ol'fashioned telephone call would make the difference ;)

This is out of hand. And because no one has spoken to each other outside the virtual community, misunderstandings have abruptet to new heights.

CouchingTiger

03-22-2004, 07:53 AM

I don't buy that a message like that came from a VP level person. No way, a high-school aged kid maybe, but a VP? If so, I question the leadership level of Marzocchi.

If you don't stop posting my pix I'll have my dad beat up your dad ;)

-Couch

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Shortbus
OH but wait, you're the ones who are sending ass-y emails about this whole deal to begin with. Practise what u preach bro.

Hey Shortbus,
Where did I send the "ass-y" email? Is "ass-y" even a word? If you read past my comment, the guy decided that physical violence on the internet was cool or something like that also realized that his original comment was pretty dumb and admitted to it. I practice what I preach, bro.

Brian

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by CouchingTiger
If you don't stop posting my pix I'll have my dad beat up your dad ;)

I knew it would be a matter of time before this found it's way here... :D

Brian

kingLatency

03-22-2004, 09:31 AM

He probably meant a cease and desist order, not a lawsuit.

RhinofromWA

03-22-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by SPUTNECK
Hey Rhino, while I really don't want to get in the middle of opposing attitudes, I might be able to offer yet again, another perspective. I work in the Media (TV) and allot of times we get what is called "embargo'd info". That is we can't air it until it is officially released to the public by the originating source. At trade industry shows, it is common professional courtesy to repect this and seek advice from the source on a "publish date". Also on RM responsibility, actually they do have a responsibility as a "information distributer and facilitator" to moderate and guard against this happening. In other words, I have a responsibility in the media to be accurate, fair, and not infringe on confidential "revenue related" info....(in our case) if it news worthy from a public safety stance or investigative in nature, the gloves are off. All this may seem a bit diluted, but there are hundreds of rules in "freedom of the press" that most people, including myself sometimes don't understand.( like I can use a logo for ATT in a news story, but not in promo that promotes the story). Because of the difference between promotion and news. I think the original email to RM could have been more understanding and professional, I also understand that you cannot make exceptions for RM and have a different reaction toward Transcend Mag. So you have to choose to be equally an ass or nice. Whoever posted the confidential info was not acting responsibly, and RM unintentionally helped them to futher their lack of responsibility....If my employer did the same thing as RM....we could be sued by the company,and in a civil trial, we would probably loose.....its a crazy, mind blowing system.

Hope this helps...if not....oh well...you win some, you lose most.
Bill.

Hey Sputneck,

The email sent (not the attempts to explain and patch things up) was the issue here. The wording to RM about information that he may have no practical knowledge of was WAY OUT OF LINE. No company anywhere should send a letter like that out. I suggest Bryson subject all transpondence thru a BS editor before releasing it. :D Really, handing it to a coworker who isn't afraid of Bryson (as he sounds like he has a temper) would be in Marz best interest.

If he was asking RM to remove info that is one thing. Bryson went way over the line threatening RM. It is unfortunate that Bryson sent the email out....but the response shouldn't be a surprise. In fact I say the response was warranted. Bryson, while maybe not in real life, in that email was a 100% Prime Grade A D-I-C-K. (maybe like I am being now;) who am I kidding he was waaaaay worse)

RM can moderate....and he should. But the poster of Conf. Info is the one at fault. He is the one breaking the professional courtesy....for releasing the faulty info. RM is a messege board. He wasn't the one sworn to secrecy or to be held to any agreement. RM doesn't read everything I post. I don't work for him. If he finds or is made privy of something that should be removed he does.....

I am not quite sure of what Transend Mag has to do with any of this. I don't know that side of the story. Transend being a actual informational media, while RM is a messege board where everyone contributes are different beasts entirely.

Brysons email should never have happened.....please forawrd atleast this sentence to Bryson (whom I have never met, but can't say I could care to) Brian P is a stand up guy. Maybe Bryson should have Brian read his outgoing mail before sending it. :D Sorry Brian P not trying to give you more work but if this Bryson stays around then it probably would be job security. ;)

The title to this thread though maybe seen as inappropriate to the Marz camp.....reminds posters know how much a no-no it is to post that info. In fact RM has done you a service and disservice at the same time. He helped you get the word out about confidential matters being released and made the VP look like a grade school bully.

I would be fired if I sent something like that out as a company related letter. No way would that sort of letter fly out in the real world....as this only reflects poorly at the company. All I see here are excuses for letter a VP should never have sent. There is no excuse for that email....and no way to explain or add info to make it sound better.

I submitt to Marz again, that all Bryson letters, via snail mail or otherwise, be reviewed by someone with a clue.

Incubus

03-22-2004, 09:47 AM

I think we're overlooking an obvious question here: Are Marzocchi upset at the dissemination of those pics because the fork be different from what was depicted in the 'double-secret' OEM pages? :D

I sure hope so, because the pics depicted it to be too tall for my ride :devil: , but it sure looked HOT! :eek:

I'd love to replace my Manitou Breakout with a Marzocchi product despite Bryson's emotional e-mail to RM and Brian P. calling me an idiot or something in another thread for an absurdly tongue-in-cheek comment (that eerily had to do with a 6" version of the 888)

S.G.D

03-22-2004, 09:52 AM

i cant believe i read this whole thread, im not usually one to follow soap operas.

this is all i have to say:

"think before you shoot"

this goes for both parties.

~SGD

tmx

03-22-2004, 09:53 AM

brian this is shortbus, shortbus this is brian. both good peeps.

let us not fall prey to a mob mentality.

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by S.G.D
i cant believe i read this whole thread, im not usually one to follow soap operas.

this is all i have to say:

"think before you shoot"

this goes for both parties.

~SGD

I was thinking more along the lines of the "Don't shoot the messenger...."

Brian

S.G.D

03-22-2004, 09:59 AM

that could be true aswell, since you got shot up quite a bit but i would have to stick to my previous statement.

RM with his retaliation and Mr Martin with his poorly worded email both pulled the trigger without giving it much thought.

this could have been avoided.

~SGD

-BB-

03-22-2004, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
I am actually joking about the asshole part. He is however very passionate about "his" company. Things like this are nothing but a huge headache none of us "insiders" need. We have better things to do.
The last thing we need is for our new spec sheets to end up on a public forum (as well as Bryson's letter). He might have been a bit harsh but "this" thread was completely BS. RM, or whoever you are (why don't you peps posts your details, are you hiding from someone?) I understand and knew you didn't post it but at the same time you are classless, a true non-professional in this little industry of MTB's. Sorry I had to say it. ExcussME!
I wouldn't be surprised if you disolved my access to your site but that would indeed prove my point.

Business is business let's leave it at that.

FYI,
I have RS, Fox and Manitous 2005 OEM book sitting right here next to my scanner. Why shouldn't I post this stuff????? I know better. I worked for Manitou (R&D) for 10 years (left 6 months ago) and I even know a lot of their 2006 line but it still does not give me the right to "share it".

Thanks again, any suggestions are greatly appricated. We do listen in between putting foot to ass!!

Whoa there... where the heck is this coming from. After your first post on this subject, I was gaining some respect back for Marzocchi. After THIS post, you are back in the hole. I WAS going to go out and get the new Z150, but now I think I'll have to stick w/ fox.:( What the he11 has RM done to you? Where do you get off saying all that. If you guys are all pissed, go after the person that leaked your "confidential" materials. Not the site that they used to post them.:rolleyes:
Geez... is everyone at Zokes a COCK?
(Oh wait... I mean everyone EXCEPT Brian P. Brian is the man:thumb: )

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by S.G.D
that could be true aswell, since you got shot up quite a bit but i would have to stick to my previous statement.

RM with his retaliation and Mr Martin with his poorly worded email both pulled the trigger without giving it much thought.

this could have been avoided.

~SGD

Both pulled the triggers.... But there was a first shot at the messenger.... Which should have been at the person who scanned the pages from the OEM book....

BB, I am not the man.... I just do a job here...

Brian

S.G.D

03-22-2004, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
Both pulled the triggers.... But there was a first shot at the messenger.... Which should have been at the person who scanned the pages from the OEM book....

Brian

touché

you are exactly right.

that being a product of my theory :cool: :eek:

~SGD

Soul Rider

03-22-2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by -BB-
Whoa there... where the heck is this coming from. After your first post on this subject, I was gaining some respect back for Marzocchi. After THIS post, you are back in the hole. I WAS going to go out and get the new Z150, but now I think I'll have to stick w/ fox.:( What the he11 has RM done to you? Where do you get off saying all that. If you guys are all pissed, go after the person that leaked your "confidential" materials. Not the site that they used to post them.:rolleyes:
Geez... is everyone at Zokes a COCK?
(Oh wait... I mean everyone EXCEPT Brian P. Brian is the man:thumb: )

The reason I said this was due to the fact that I did not know RM or anyone else here at this site. It is his site though (now that I know). I had only read the "private e-mail" that my boss posted here(posting private e-mails and titling it like everyone really needs this info). Then all the attacks which should have never even happened in the first place. What's sickens me now is how drawn out this has become.

Should we have to sit here with are noses in it and not try to get peps to see both sides of the story? Read Bryson's other posts. This is his position.

I posted on my own time (for the company). ...now I'm being called a COCK????? I'll do just what I've done since the 4th grade, walk away.
Have a nice day. I'm still not looking for trouble.

This is my last post on Riding with monkeys.

dream4est

03-22-2004, 11:11 AM

wow. if you listen real closely to this thread you can hear the bike industry imploding:cool:
just kidding. hey since the cats out of the bag would anyone like to tell me some more about that new fork (66) that has everyone pissed. its not like military secrets are being revealed here.

Shortbus

03-22-2004, 11:33 AM

Brian, by "you" i meant Marzocchi the company. I don't mean to point fingers at people. ass-y is definitely not a real word. But again i don't live in that "real" world... :p

Chrome thanks...
I apologize for coming across as an ass myself. I just got upset cause i really do like marzocchi forks. I think i'm gonna stop caring about this fight now. My superT performed very well last week end on our brand new skinny ride and mini drop. I'm glad i didn't dispoal-grind it. :D

Shortbus

03-22-2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by CouchingTiger

If you don't stop posting my pix I'll have my dad beat up your dad

-Couch

My dad is a body builder. he can kick a$$

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 11:39 AM

Shortbus...
If you buy products based on the attitudes of the higher ups, you may have to change your buying habits completely... Most people don't get to the top by being nice people.... Sad but true... Especially in a biz like ours... A lot of people fighting for the big piece of a small pie....

Brian

Shortbus

03-22-2004, 11:42 AM

In my opinion, a company's attitude determines its product.
But that's just me. I could be obliviously wrong who knows....

Christian -

EDIT: i'm achully glad you mentioned that marzocchi or its high-ups (i don't need the distinction in my mind) is after the big piece of the small pie. Good goal guys. I'll keep your motives and attitude towards customers in mind when i look for a new fork :angry: :mad:

Hey Chrome, at least i tried :dead:

tmx

03-22-2004, 01:12 PM

that's all any good e-friend can ask of dancing banana poop. you tried. he tried too. your fork worked great (having been spared the garbage disposal alterations) and you had fun riding this w/e. hopefully bp had a good ride this w/e too.

j-bone

03-22-2004, 01:20 PM

WTF! Thats the dumbest thing... who cares if you see pics, because you can just tell that every year marzocchi will be getting crappier and crappier....
That guy is an ASS:mad:

Shortbus

03-22-2004, 01:20 PM

we're e-homey Gs

tmx

03-22-2004, 01:58 PM

fo sho, in the e-hizzy YO! puttin' some e-titude stank in check.

dhjill

03-22-2004, 05:07 PM

Bryson's an ass. I interviewed with Marzocchi several years ago and decided there's no way in hell I would work for such a conceited individual. He is doing his job, but the delivery of the message is uncalled for. Plus, if his damn forks were so top secret, then don't show them at a trade show.

No offense to Brian P....:D

Bryson should have hired Soul Rider to give a simple explanation of why he was opposed to these photos instead of putting someone down in the process.

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 05:16 PM

Jill..... Jill.....

You know I love you girl, but did you read the part where both Tom and myself pointed out that it was the pages from OEM book that were scanned and posted on online (once again, not by RM) that really started this whole fire storm?

Off topic, did I hear something about you hurting yourself lately?

Brian

Inclag

03-22-2004, 05:50 PM

Holy Sh!t!!!!

I don't know how long this thread has been going for, but I just finished up about 8 hours of doing work on LabVIEW, and just waisted about thirty minutes reading this thread.

So I would like to give my asshole professor and those that are being rediculous whining childs in this thread a big shout-out. Some of you need to grow up and act like adults.

Anyway, I need a beer. Mmmmmmmmmmm Sierra Nevada :drool:

dhjill

03-22-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
Jill..... Jill.....

You know I love you girl, but did you read the part where both Tom and myself pointed out that it was the pages from OEM book that were scanned and posted on online (once again, not by RM) that really started this whole fire storm?

Off topic, did I hear something about you hurting yourself lately?

Brian

Hey Brian,

Love you too, man!:D Yeah, I did read this and that's why I said Bryson should have hired Tom to explain the situation. I don't disagree that a company needs to protect it's intellectual property...I just disagree with Bryson's delivery, that's all. I think it was very inappropriate. If he would have asked nicely, none of this would have come about, I'm sure.

I know we wouldn't be so hip if the same thing happened to us...but I can say for sure that our prez/CEO wouldn't have belittled RM administrators in the process. Kudos to you and Tom...Marzocchi makes a killer product and they are fortunate to have good people like you guys...Bryson just needs some help in the tact and respect department. Just my opinion.

Man this is a silly industry sometimes!!!:D

And yes, I did break my ankle riding MX at Elsinore a few weeks ago. Totally sucks not being able to ride...plus I won't be able to run from Bryson when he hunts me down...he he he:D .

Peace out...see you at the Ontario Natl's?

Brian Peterson

03-22-2004, 06:05 PM

Jill,
Sorry to hear about the ankle..... Just coming out of a cast myself, I know where you are coming from.... I hope it heals up quickly!!

I'll be in Ontario for sure.... Been riding my ass off for this one... And after a 4 month break, there is still some ass left to ride off!!

Hop on over to my tent and say hi!!!

Brian

crash13

03-22-2004, 06:41 PM

WOW!
i can't believe how upset everyone got over an email that wasn't even directed at them. you all need to step away from the your computer and go ride your bike. i own a couple of zokes and i love em. i recently bought a 888 and i love it, and so does everyone who follows me down a hill and gets to see how well the fork works. it is one of the most tunable forks out there. as long as marzocchi keeps making a good product i'll keep buying there product. keep up the good work.

nicklin

03-22-2004, 10:13 PM

Contrary to some people's opinion, Marzocchi has been getting better and better all the time. A company needs a level of privacy to make sure their products are ready for sale on the consumer market. True, Bryson's email was a little direct, to say the least, but as north america Marzocchi guy he can't just sit there and let people leak out new info like it is nothing. If you think this industry is sily, check the auto industry.

For a company that sticks to what it knows, rather than jumping on a different bangwagon every year and then claiming to be revolutionary like some company does, marzocchi gave me the solid products that I came to depend on. Their efforts, despite being a little secretive, still are worth the wait. Heck, how long did the Red Pill last? That little time of wait is the least we can do when we are promised somehting great.

Bryson, keep up the good work.

Clark Kent

03-22-2004, 10:21 PM

no soul folks...:rolleyes:

and that aint a reply to the post b4 me... :monkey:

nicklin

03-23-2004, 11:52 PM

yeah, a Beretta is just soooo mediocore, right? And we should totally ride a Honda CBR instead of a Ducati 996 Monster right? Just because it's all hype?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shortbus

03-24-2004, 05:37 AM

I was honestly TORN in my descision between a new 360 modena and the new thunderbird. I resisted the hype and went with the thunderbird.

:monkey:

Will a 3.0 tire fit my thunderbird if I have red brake calipers and my soft top is black?

:p

Arutha

03-24-2004, 11:04 AM

Hmm. There any British fork companies? I really like Aston Martins. :D

llkoolkeg

03-24-2004, 11:24 AM

Please allow me to repost my earlier summation-

And the moral of this story?

Many techies lack the tact and language skills necessary to represent their companies in a dignified manner in public forums. Stick to what you do best- designing and producing the plushest and most reliable FR/DH suspension products on the market. Leave the PR to PR professionals. Really...would you allow an Ad Exec to do your R&D?

It's even more evident now than when I first posted it. :rolleyes:

VPSDhiller

03-24-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
I'd be happy to delete photos he deemed a problem. The problem with Bryson is that he goes out of his way to be a total ass. He'd be amazed at how far being courteous and professional would get him.

Who is lacking in professionalism? I'd say it's you airing your inside issue with Bryson.

I don't think he would have sent you that message in anticipation of you starting a big soap-opera over it.

Keep your business to yourself. If you were courteous and professional, you'd know a hell of a lot better than to do what you have already done here.

From the outside looking in, its as though you are looking for "moral support" from your faithful internet bulletin board friends to give you an e-hug for something you could have dealt with discretely and professionally on your own.

Give your head a shake pal....If they are only pictures why on earth did you bother with all this?

switch

03-24-2004, 03:43 PM

You may be right. I'd have replied with a "go **** youself" response to this Bryson character, who obviously needs a lesson in tact.

VPSDhiller

03-24-2004, 03:47 PM

Alright, I just sifted through all of the posts.

WOW. A WHOLE lot of energy in this thread!

Was it really worth it? In my opinion, no.

Maybe Bryson could have worded himself beter. Maybe RM could have not displayed their internal emails to all the board users (and you know what the intent was behind that).

Ultimately, we are talking about some leaked specs. It happens and we all live to see another day.

Ride bikes. Have fun. :cool:

tmx

03-24-2004, 04:24 PM

VPSDhiller

03-24-2004, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by chromegoddess
edited my rant because i see you've gone and read the thread.

btw, welcome to ridemonkey. good people run this joint.

Thanks, glad to be here. I don't doubt the integrity of the people who put such an indepth site together.

;)

Everyone makes mistakes, and in this case (as I boldly stated) my opinion is that both parties could have been more professional.

Thats it for me though, I prefer to talk bikes, not argue.

Cheers!!
Corey:)

tmx

03-24-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by VPSDhiller
...(and you know what the intent was behind that). ...

that's cool you read it all and have a little different view of it now. but i'm not sure you can safely say you know what the intent was for RM's decision to post that letter. mostly i feel he did it as a simple notice to anyone who might consider posting confidential information in the future and what he might have to deal with if they did it. but i also think he knows that many of us care about who it is we are handing our hard earned money to.

VPSDhiller

03-24-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by chromegoddess
that's cool you read it all and have a little different view of it now. but i'm not sure you can safely say you know what the intent was for RM's decision to post that letter. mostly i feel he did it as a simple notice to anyone who might consider posting confidential information in the future and what he might have to deal with if they did it. but i also think he knows that many of us care about who it is we are handing our hard earned money to.

I don't know...when you title it "Public Service Announcement" when everyone knows it was intended to be an internal email, you can't help but speculate what RM's intent was...and to then take it to the forum only strengthens that speculation (for me anyway, and I am sure there are others that would agree).

Just like Bryson is taking some heat, RM probably should too.

The situation could have been extinguished in the two scenarios:
1) the initial email was worded differently or...
2) RM played a more mature role, recognized it for what it was worth, and kept their business to themselves.

If RM made a regular habit of sharing their "inbox" on both the front page and the forum, then my point of view would be useless. But clearly they don't, and made a calculated decision to air this issue which could have been kept quiet.

Either way, there are FAR more important issues in the MTB world to be concerned with than the PR God's battle....Like trail access and races!

Echo

03-25-2004, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by VPSDhiller
I don't know...when you title it "Public Service Announcement" when everyone knows it was intended to be an internal email, you can't help but speculate what RM's intent was...and to then take it to the forum only strengthens that speculation (for me anyway, and I am sure there are others that would agree).
I thought this was extremely funny! I can't help but speculate that RM was sharing this email with us so we could enjoy humor value. :)

punkassean

03-26-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
This is kinda like complaining about a 200mm fork designed around a 3" tire being installed on a 98 DH frame. It just shouldn't be done.

My Demo 9 sure does sit nice with this nose bleeder on the frontend.

I'm gone, have fun. We will continue to make kickass product anyways. My heart and soul has been spilled...now I must drag my sorry ass home so I can be a dick to my neighbors, kids, and...where's Bryson's # I need to give hiom a pece of my mind too...what an asshole. For those who take things literally, I'm being sarcastic.

I work for Bikemag anyways. ;) :p

now that we know you work for bike mag, then you can't be Zap or RC, so how many dickhead editors/former editors does that leave? anybody got ideas?

punkassean

03-26-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by VPSDhiller
Who is lacking in professionalism? I'd say it's you airing your inside issue with Bryson.

I don't think he would have sent you that message in anticipation of you starting a big soap-opera over it.

Keep your business to yourself. If you were courteous and professional, you'd know a hell of a lot better than to do what you have already done here.

From the outside looking in, its as though you are looking for "moral support" from your faithful internet bulletin board friends to give you an e-hug for something you could have dealt with discretely and professionally on your own.

Give your head a shake pal....If they are only pictures why on earth did you bother with all this?

don't do things behind closed doors that you wouldn't do in the open. if the email didn't specify it was confidential then RM had a right to post it, plus Bryson did overreact, nothing personal just the truth. This whole thing would dissappear if Bryson came on and admitted he was too harsh. I truly understand his POV but there are more professional ways to handle these things. threatening legal action, c'mon. He needs to find the leak in "his" company and seal it. there nuff said, no slamming no choosing sides, just the truth. all those pics did anyway was make people stoked and start saving money, I am sure at least a few people will now reconsider investing financially in a company that behaves as such. I personally will buy whatever product is the best value/performance at that time. I ride Fox and Manitou now but I have owned Marz before and probably will again.

Brian Peterson

03-26-2004, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by punkassean
now that we know you work for bike mag, then you can't be Zap or RC, so how many dickhead editors/former editors does that leave? anybody got ideas?

Perhaps you missed this...

Tom Rogers
aka Soul Rider
aka Old School

He has a pretty extensive background as a racer and R&D guy... And has taught me a lot in the short time he has been here...

Brian

punkassean

03-26-2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
Perhaps you missed this...

Tom Rogers
aka Soul Rider
aka Old School

He has a pretty extensive background as a racer and R&D guy... And has taught me a lot in the short time he has been here...

Brian

I had initially scanned through some of the posts and got the general impression that soul rider was being an elitist, but I had mixed up VPSDhiller and soul rider, your post prompted me to re-read more thoroughly all of the posts and I don't really detect nearly as much hostility as I thought I did. Plus I missed him posting his name and I kinda got the feeling he was pretending to work for Marz and then admitting he worked for BIKE. It seemed like he was "hiding" behind the anonymity of the internet, like we are all used to people doing. but obviously that's not the case. my bad truly.

Brian Peterson

03-26-2004, 05:45 PM

Tom is the Soul Rider in the Ask Soul Rider forum at bikemag.com site.

I think a lot of people would see some of the comments in a different light now that some time has pass.... If they could stay awake long enought to reread all of this.....

Brian

switch

03-26-2004, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by punkassean
...all those pics did anyway was make people stoked and start saving money...

Coincidence?

Shortbus

03-27-2004, 04:09 AM

I think not

tlthehun

03-30-2004, 01:28 AM

Ooohh, poor Bryson [guy, right?]. The BMW for graduating from UCLA didn't prepare you for this?

"Hi, Earth, my name is Bryson. I enjoy riding a stationary bicycle without a seat while listening to The Village People, my favorite scent is bleach and I'm hoping to buy a New Beetle convertible for the summer. I know that you don't know me and if you did, you probably wouldn't like me but will you please do me a favor and stop posting pictures that were taken in public to be viewed by the public or else?"

You or somebody F'ed up, deal with it.

Something like 65% of all the lawsuits on Earth are in the USA, 90% by people who aren't willing to take responsibilty for their own mistakes.

Just imagine if everybody who's ever lost the front end on their Marzocchi equipped bike because it didn't pick up a bump as well is conceivably possible, sued your donkey ass for the range of injuries incurred?

If they were my pictures, I'd redouble my efforts to get them all over the planet as my tribute to your presumptuous and whiny persona.

soulfly

03-30-2004, 06:44 AM

go to google.com
type in marzocchi 2005
and see a wonder. ;)

I Are Baboon

03-31-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by soulfly
go to google.com
type in marzocchi 2005
and see a wonder. ;)

This thread comes up, about 10 links down. :p

JRB

03-31-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by soulfly
go to google.com
type in marzocchi 2005
and see a wonder. ;)

Since one site still has the tech drawings, I would say Bryson didn't get the memo out to all countries. :rolleyes:

switch

03-31-2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by loco-gringo
Since one site still has the tech drawings, I would say Bryson didn't get the memo out to all countries. :rolleyes:

Probably because he can't sue them.

Shortbus

04-01-2004, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by switch
Probably because he can't sue them.

Give the guy a break, he HAS to get to the TOP somehow!

:cool:

dv8cam

04-06-2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Motionboy2
You know, he must be pretty busy these days. I mean if he is going to enforce legal action against those who have 2005 marzocchi product then he has to go through all these sites

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=2005+marzocchi

that is 10+ pages of google hits. Hmmm...

Hahahaha!

chunky

04-18-2004, 07:57 AM

Dude this is alienating a lot of customers who would buy marzocchi products like your stupid trucker hat, or shorts or those other things at the front of the bike. I was going to buy a new Monster T or Triple 8... but I think that I'll go with the Boxxers... If marzocchi is going to treat customers like this, then how is there customer service going to be? I will take this as an example of how they treat people who spend their hard earned money on expensive bike parts. Rock Shock, Fox, Manitou, have my votes now. I would rather ride a Suntour or an RST than a Marzocchi... You lost a good customer buddy...

Just Lookin'...

04-18-2004, 10:38 AM

I was going to buy a new Monster T or Triple 8... but I think that I'll go with the Boxxers...

that statement is so out to lunch i must assume you're kidding.

hmm.

monster t or boxxer. oh, what to do? what to do? they're so - uh - similar.

but at least, god be praised, rockshox has never done anything negative to their customers so i can blindly buy their products with the moral imperative that i'm supporting the 'good guys'.

oh, never mind the extreme waste of resources that cost investors around 130million.

after all, raping a publicly traded corporation to pad pockets and hire friends is a victimless crime, right?

Shortbus

04-19-2004, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...

after all, raping a publicly traded corporation to pad pockets and hire friends is a victimless crime, right?

NO, I think that's more along the lines of "getting to the top" or "getting a piece of the pie".

huckleberry

04-24-2004, 09:19 AM

oh please. he can't take legal action. those pics aren't his. they belong to who ever took them and they can do what they want with them.

Just Lookin'...

04-24-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by huckleberry
oh please. he can't take legal action. those pics aren't his. they belong to who ever took them and they can do what they want with them.

if you'd actually read this thread, instead of skimming it, you'd know that it's not about the photos of the forks, it's the scans of the confidential oem specifications book that was NOT freely accessible.

last i'd heard, scans or photo-scans of confidential, private information is not 'intellectual property' of the scanner/photographer.

huckleberry

04-25-2004, 08:56 AM

oh my B

RhinofromWA

04-26-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...
if you'd actually read this thread, instead of skimming it, you'd know that it's not about the photos of the forks, it's the scans of the confidential oem specifications book that was NOT freely accessible.

last i'd heard, scans or photo-scans of confidential, private information is not 'intellectual property' of the scanner/photographer.

Well to quote the first post of the thread: :rolleyes:
You have posted unauthorized pictures of my 2005 product line._ The pictures were taken in Taiwan, at my booth last week. _I assume you realize that they are pictures of my 2005 line and I think you realize that releasing this information too early is a disservice to Marzocchi and your subscribers. _Since specifications and product lines do change disseminating incorrect information is absolutely wrong and I will pursue any and all legal procedures I can do make sure you will not perform this unprofessional act of stupidity again.

All that confidential material information was not mentioned in the letter. Indeed the writer (who will remain nameless :rolleyes: ) pointed out it was the pics of the forks and info available in the pictures taken at the show. People responded to the letter because it should have never gone out in the form it did.

You are right posting confidential info is a no-no. It is also the reposibility of the person posting it to ultimately answer for it. RM can take the info down but he did not post the material in question. Once made aware he should have been asked to remove it, not threatened with "any and all legal proceedures" I say take away whomever posted the informations access to more info they can not be trusted. As far as threatening RM (site and admin) it was over the top and should have expected this response.

Just Lookin'...

04-26-2004, 06:59 PM

earlier i had mentioned that the email from whatshisname was stupidly done, and i think we all stick by that judgment.

but the gist of the thread was not actually (ironically) about the photos that jabber-mouth so foolishly spewed on about, but rather the OEM book.

so, you have the initial email as 'Part 1' and the subsequent clarification by others as 'Part 2'.

all of which is a big, happy bicycle industry circle-jerk.

so, yeah. let's just let this one die a natural death.

but i still posit that anyone making a decision to buy or not buy anything based on the foolishness of the 'unofficial mouthpiece' of a company as equally nit-witted.

that's like not buying a car because the company who built it has headquarters outside the USA or a bicycle frame because the company gets it welded overseas.

and it think we beat that topic to death about a dozen times.

RhinofromWA

04-26-2004, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Just Lookin'...
but the gist of the thread was not actually (ironically) about the photos that jabber-mouth so foolishly spewed on about, but rather the OEM book.

so, you have the initial email as 'Part 1' and the subsequent clarification by others as 'Part 2'.

all of which is a big, happy bicycle industry circle-jerk.
Well the thread was about the letter. All information that came afterwards are attemps to clarify an obviously offensive letter sent by the VP (I am assuming of the US division)

so, yeah. let's just let this one die a natural death. Yeah I agree. ;)

but i still posit that anyone making a decision to buy or not buy anything based on the foolishness of the 'unofficial mouthpiece' of a company as equally nit-witted.

that's like not buying a car because the company who built it has headquarters outside the USA or a bicycle frame because the company gets it welded overseas.

and it think we beat that topic to death about a dozen times.

"Unofficial mouthpeice" let me point out this isn't some guy at the shipping docks. It is a VP. That removes any "unofficial" grace one might give whatishisname.

I think any company threatening myself or a group (like RM) liek that would/should be part of the consideration. It shouldn't be ignored. Now withthat said....I have not one bad thing to say about Brian P at Marz....heck I think a VP spot should be opening up.....(no not really) But Brian would get my vote (if I could cast one)

At least you can agree that the letter sent would make one less likely to buy a product of thiers. Not make it more desirable. It certainly didn't make me want to go out and spend money right away to keep him fed.

The original letter called out RM directly that was clear....I would have VP's whatishisname by the balls if I was Pres and got word of this.

Rhino

VTinCT

05-09-2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Spoken like a true teenager. We need to wash your mouth out with soap kiddo. Read the entire thread. You've missed the entire disscusion and where all the mistakes were made.
The show was not public...and the link photos were scanned and posted even though they said confidential and had a NDA attached to it. (Insert clouds parting and angles singing here)

Buy what you want. Next year we might only sell 999,999 forks. If you coud see through this bunk post you might be the lucky guy that has the alarm go off annoucing you as the 1,000,000 owner of a Marzocchi suspension system. You could have had the fruit cake!
Cheers and more beers...I'm not looking for trouble. Just amazed on how long and drawn out ths discussion has become.

Now back to it gizmos!!!

I guess, let me start by saying I am not teenager. But after reading some 14 pages of this thread I need to say something. I do ride a Zoke, we also have a Manitou and RS between my bikes and my wife's. As a consumer, its hard to read a post like this, not to mention the many from Bryson, and not feel like I would rather my money go someplace else.

It was posted earlier in the thread (I'm not searching the whole thing again for it:rolleyes: ) that its stupid not to buy a product just because one person (in this case a VP) comes off like an a$$. Well, I would say, not so. Respsect is big with me, as I'm sure it is with many out there....you and Bryson have gone to great lengths to really put this consumer off. Why would I want to put my $$ into your business? Why would I want to contribute to your salary or bonuses?

Whats more, your apparent disdain for my money, or opinion, as a consumer is even more upsetting. Have you ever taken Business 101?:confused: I appreciate that my not buying a Marz product will not end your company, but to cavalierly write me off is just bad business. I did have my eye on a Z1 SL for my AC....but yes, this thread, with the comments of Bryson and yourself, has gone a long way in influencing me away from your product.

I know you don't care. I just wanted to let you know.

:monkey:

ZAW

05-27-2004, 11:25 PM

Alright, i AM a teenager, a freshman in highschool. I would just like to say that I, again a freshman in highschool, was schocked at the tone of the letter sent to RM. I was shocked that this letter came from the VP of a company i know well (have a dj1) and respect (and now respect quite abit less). That is all.

Soul Rider

05-29-2004, 01:22 AM

Forgive my spelling but here goes. I am a rider just like you folks. I know Bryson. He wants nothing more than to get everyone stoked by riding thier bikes.
I work my ass off for Marzoochi customers. I try to be fair but hate to be taken advantange of, even if it's something stupid...and yes, casing a jump is stupid. That's not riding, it's trying to ride.
Honesty flys with us. It puts a smile on our faces.
So anyways, Bryson writes a letter about a legally marked confidential spec. book that should be moderated. None the less, these books are, more often than not, made before even a single piece has been fabricated. Nothing, natta. We don't want it out and appearently he was upset about it too.
Speaking for a few others at Marzoochi, we are 8 hard working technicians in the warranty tech departmant trying to service all of North America, we are less than 20 total. Out of those 8, 7 of us ride. We are the ones that fix it and ship it. It's not Bryson. We don't work with him, just for him. We work for him because we like bikes...oh, and Bomber girls
Bryson is a rider just like you folks. Showing the spec. was like showing the present early, it sucked. We present later hence creating a bit of drama to the mix of product specing. It also lets us ride a bit more while keeping the model years on the right years.
I still am having trouble understanding why companies are presenting product a full year in advance. Call it what you will. Poof it's an 06, 07...I hate to say it but it's going to become a color option within a few years(If this world lasts that long) If anybody just wanted to be able to ride his bike (other than me of course) it's Bryson. He doesn't mean to harm, but he sure can be stuburn sometimes.
From a worker at the company I can understand how he might have come across. He's agro, what can I say. I can't speek for him. But I know what he likes and doesn't like. If it's about bikes, he's in it for the right reasons.
I know that he would like nothing more than to be able to reword that letter....
Forgive me for being rash, or for even bringing it up, I am just a rider like you guys. I want my stuff to work without having to fix it too. I want to be able to climb effortlessly and descend without a care but I am just a hard working American trying to do what I love. It sure is complicated isn't it?

We are only trying to make forks that live behind thier name. :D :D

What's a guy supposed to do?:(

nicklin

05-29-2004, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
I don't have a problem with the company - and obviously they make a great product. This Bryson character has been a black eye on the company for years though. Remember that letter he sent to MBA a couple years back claiming that Marzocchi "IS" freeride and that no other company can make a decent freeride fork? Anyone have that issue of MBA anymore?

well, no, but if i remember correctly, back in 2000-2001 ish, give me one company that made a reliable, strong, plush freeride fork with good damping that is not required to have an expert mechanic with time to burn. the 1st generation psylo with short bushings, seal problems and horrible damping? the x-verts that had to be maintained every 3 weeks? the boxxer that costed 1200 bucks and still had blown seals? took other companies at least 4 years to catch up.

then look at the z1's and z3's, not to mention the monster t and super-t's pf the day. they DID define freeride. I really get ticked off when people start to deny the supramacy that marzocchi had, and still has, on what true forks are supposed to be. Everyone (or a lot of people) wanted marzocchi just to look hardcore.

and today, the very same companies who said a good, strong, ridable 4 inch single crown fork was not possible are copying marzocchi's approach and try to be the king in the scramble to be the next big thing, and we see manitou making 5, 6, now 7 inch forks just to be ahead of the 'curve'. and marzocchi gave me exactly what i needed, a 4 inch shiver sc, bucking the trend of the "long-travel' bandwagon.

no need to jump on the "let's dig up dirt on Bryson' wagon. he just had pride in the company, would he would done that if he didn't love what he did?

cut the man some slack.

switch

05-29-2004, 02:52 AM

Is Mr. Bryson he the same guy that stated in a bike mag that there was no need for a 6" SC fork?

nicklin

05-29-2004, 02:59 AM

that's up to personal opinion, and it makes sense to me too that a 6-inch sc fork is excessive show of vanity. however this topic has been extensively discussed here on ridemonkey and we shouldn't beat the dead horse anymore

crash13

05-29-2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Soul Rider
Forgive my spelling but here goes. I am a rider just like you folks. I know Bryson. He wants nothing more than to get everyone stoked by riding thier bikes.
I work my ass off for Marzoochi customers. I try to be fair but hate to be taken advantange of, even if it's something stupid...and yes, casing a jump is stupid. That's not riding, it's trying to ride.
Honesty flys with us. It puts a smile on our faces.
So anyways, Bryson writes a letter about a legally marked confidential spec. book that should be moderated. None the less, these books are, more often than not, made before even a single piece has been fabricated. Nothing, natta. We don't want it out and appearently he was upset about it too.
Speaking for a few others at Marzoochi, we are 8 hard working technicians in the warranty tech departmant trying to service all of North America, we are less than 20 total. Out of those 8, 7 of us ride. We are the ones that fix it and ship it. It's not Bryson. We don't work with him, just for him. We work for him because we like bikes...oh, and Bomber girls
Bryson is a rider just like you folks. Showing the spec. was like showing the present early, it sucked. We present later hence creating a bit of drama to the mix of product specing. It also lets us ride a bit more while keeping the model years on the right years.
I still am having trouble understanding why companies are presenting product a full year in advance. Call it what you will. Poof it's an 06, 07...I hate to say it but it's going to become a color option within a few years(If this world lasts that long) If anybody just wanted to be able to ride his bike (other than me of course) it's Bryson. He doesn't mean to harm, but he sure can be stuburn sometimes.
From a worker at the company I can understand how he might have come across. He's agro, what can I say. I can't speek for him. But I know what he likes and doesn't like. If it's about bikes, he's in it for the right reasons.
I know that he would like nothing more than to be able to reword that letter....
Forgive me for being rash, or for even bringing it up, I am just a rider like you guys. I want my stuff to work without having to fix it too. I want to be able to climb effortlessly and descend without a care but I am just a hard working American trying to do what I love. It sure is complicated isn't it?

We are only trying to make forks that live behind thier name. :D :D

What's a guy supposed to do?:(

well as long as marzocchi keeps making a good fork i'll keep buying buying them. so far i haven't found a fork that works as well and is as reliable as marzocchi. so keep up the good work guys. and as for bryson, i'm not going to make a judgement about someone over some comment made on the internet.

Lexx D

05-29-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by crash13
well as long as marzocchi keeps making a good fork i'll keep buying buying them. so far i haven't found a fork that works as well and is as reliable as marzocchi. so keep up the good work guys. and as for bryson, i'm not going to make a judgement about someone over some comment made on the internet.
I was a bit angered by the letter. But my shiver kicks ass:D , No i mean it kicks serious ass. It's not light:eek: , or the siffest fork. but it has survived things that would have broken a boxxer or (insert fork here). Bryson was heated, RM got heated:angry: . It's done, no law suit nobody got hurt(in reality it makes me want a 66 more). Oh well if they keep making the product i'll probably keep spending that $$$:D

nicklin

05-30-2004, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Shortbus
I was honestly TORN in my descision between a new 360 modena and the new thunderbird. I resisted the hype and went with the thunderbird.

:monkey:

Will a 3.0 tire fit my thunderbird if I have red brake calipers and my soft top is black?

:p

wow missed this gem of intelectual spasm for ...two months now

you are the reason why i hate the internet. making sense don;t always hurt, and you need to g oto bed before mommy comes for a bed check.

you couldn't picked a worse example, BTW, if you knew anything about cars.

i love my shiver

nicklin

05-30-2004, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by ZAW
Alright, i AM a teenager, a freshman in highschool. I would just like to say that I, again a freshman in highschool, was schocked at the tone of the letter sent to RM. I was shocked that this letter came from the VP of a company i know well (have a dj1) and respect (and now respect quite abit less). That is all.

once again junior, or shall i say freshmeat....i mean freshman, read the WHOLE thread before you speak

Rip

05-30-2004, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by ZAW
Alright, i AM a teenager, a freshman in highschool. I would just like to say that I, again a freshman in highschool, was schocked at the tone of the letter sent to RM. I was shocked that this letter came from the VP of a company i know well (have a dj1) and respect (and now respect quite abit less). That is all.

Is there something wrong with protecting a product that is not quite ready yet for production?

I hope there isn't, it sucks that it had to go this far, but who ever had the idea of putting a prototype fork that is not ready to be revealed on display was not too bright.

me89

05-30-2004, 10:54 PM

It's not fair to take Bryson to task for this, he's doing his job, what he gets paid to do. It's also ok and understandable for him to be pissed off about it, for the very reason he listed.
He's allowed to be pissed at RM, because RM is a commercial site.
It has paid ads, and therefore the content needs to be monitored professionally. I wouldn't want the job of checking every photo or thread, but fundamentally if it's on the site, it's the administation's responsability.

yes but there are two sides to every coin. if he was at a public booth with people walking around you could assume that someone would have a camera taking pics b/c of the sure excitment of the new products. i know that there are some bugs to work out and that the products arent perfect but you should think that someone is going to take pics of them if there in a public place. IF I READ THE E-MAIL WRONG AND THEY WERENT IN A PUBLIC AREA THEN I TAKE BACK THAT WHOLE SPEAL.