Who in here voted for Bush?

[ummbikes]

Well, we need to fight about something.

I voted for him. I might even do so again.

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by ummbikes
I voted for him. I might even do so again.

So this stupid Iraq thing is all your fault?

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Well, we need to fight about something.

I voted for him. I might even do so again.

Haven't you already done enough... :monkey:

[bikeCOLORADO]

I did and will again unless someone better...or less evil comes along. I don't vote along party lines - I vote solely based on the individual candidate and how that candidate is likely to represent me...the almighty voter. :-)

[bomberz1qr20]

Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
I did and will again unless someone better...or less evil comes along. I don't vote along party lines - I vote solely based on the individual candidate and how that candidate is likely to represent me...the almighty voter. :-)

So, the best representation of you is a lying, cowardly idiot?

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Haven't you already done enough... :monkey:


Muhahaha!

I have only just begun!

I really didn't vote for Bush. I'm a Libertarian. I voted for Harry Browne.

I think Republicans are just grouchier versions of Democrats.:monkey:

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
So, the best representation of you is a lying, cowardly idiot?

This warms my heart in so many ways.

I've always been suspicious of George and his intentions / motivations. I voted for Gore but with no real conviction at all - I don't think either candidate was very appealing. We'll live through Bush and probably forget him but I hope we learned something from the Florida dealio. I still think there was some dirty cards being dealt down there. To me James Baker the 3rd is evil personified.

In voted for Perot the first time... now wouldn't that have been an amusing administration??? :D :D :D

[LordOpie]

I'll vote for Bush next time only if he starts another war soon.

Rumsfeld = awesome TV !!! :D :devil:

[Westy]

Originally posted by LordOpie
I'll vote for Bush next time only if he starts another war soon.

Rumsfeld = awesome TV !!! :D :devil:

Although I beleive you are joking I feel that a large percentage of people feel and vote this way. Not about war but they vote for whoever makes for the best TV. Sad really:mad::mad::mad:

My ideas lean a little to the right but Bush scares the hell out of me. In reality he is a dumbass extreme conservative who is smart enough to agree with some liberal ideology to create a popular image that provides him with enough power to fulfill his far right agenda.

His support for a prescription drug plan was done merely for votes. The elderly hold a large percentage of the population and vote heavily. His support of AIDS in Africa again is a way of making himself seem more moderate. Few reports expose the likelyhood that this policy will support conservative christian views on birth control rather than rational policies on the prevention of disease.

I did not vote for Bush last time, nor will I again. Last election I voted Libertarian. I would have voted for McCain if the crappy two party system had not prevented him from running in the general election. Next election I will vote third party again unless a decent Democratic candidate emerges, which is highly unlikely. :mad:

[Silver]

All Bush has shown me is that I will never ever vote for a fundamentalist Christian ever, for any position, even if it's fvcking kindergarten class president. Now, before you think I'm bashing Christians, sure, I am. I also won't vote for a fundamentalist Muslim, or a fundamentalist Jew either. I don't like it when politicians get to appeal to their imaginary friend for justification for thier actions.

I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

[Westy]

Originally posted by Silver
I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

Where are you from? Sorry if you have already posted, I'm just curious.

[Silver]

Up north. I married an American.

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Silver
Up north. I married an American.


A Canadian! You guys minus all the socialism are darn tootin' libretarians. :cool:

[Spud]

I keep whipping this dead horse. The electoral college has eliminated my ability to cast a vote that counts. Living in Idaho, I’m virtually guaranteed that the republican candidate will take the state (and the electoral vote). I only vote in the Presidential race to raise havoc i.e. Nader. Pretty immature way to cast a ballot, but I’m only pretending to have a vote anyhow.

[Spud]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Muhahaha!

I have only just begun!

I really didn't vote for Bush. I'm a Libertarian. I voted for Harry Browne.

I think Republicans are just grouchier versions of Democrats.:monkey:

I can respect that. Both mainstream parties have polled, advertised and becoming so obliged to special interest groups that there is no clearly defined party identity IMHO. They posture and give forceful sound bites, but when it all comes out in policy and legislation it is pretty much a camel labeled as a quarter horse.

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Spud
They posture and give forceful sound bites, but when it all comes out in policy and legislation it is pretty much a camel labeled as a quarter horse.

Ya it's pretty ironic when we swell up with self rightous anger at these one party governments of the world when we are basicly the same. The only difference is we are pretty fortunate to live in a mostly free society. I would love to see more noise from the Greens (who I don't agree with) and the Libratarians (who I do agree with) and heck even the Socialists (who seem to forget their economic model has never worked) just to push some Republicans back to being conservative and some Democrats back to being liberal.

Here is my sarcastic take on a meeting between a Democrat and Republican.

Dem. Well we just have to take care of our people it's our duty.

Repub. There are free market solutions to all problems.

Dem. No there isn't.

Repub. Yes three are.

News Flash. Megasuper Corp to close.

Dem and Repub. Oh no lets give them a big pile of money to stay in business!

Both parties pander to big business and maybe they are correct in doing so, maybe not.

At any rate it is a interesting form of government for sure.

Oh, I'll be getting my $800 child tax credit check in two weeks! GO Shrub!
:confused:

What to do? What to do?

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by ummbikes
What to do? What to do?

DUH! Bike parts... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
DUH! Bike parts... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Ya I feel that. One problem. We need a new matress as our $200 one we bought 8 years ago seems to be killing us slowly as we sleep. Plus my Trooper needs about $300 worth of new sensors to make it run right. So I'll be waiting a while for upgrades...:(

Maybe if I am particularly good I can get some some new cycling shoes and a bearing kit for my clipless pedal.

[Serial Midget]

Ouch! I hear all that and blame the republicans... bastards!

My truck sucked up nearly $1,000.00 this weekend, mapp sensor, coil, thottlebody air bypass sensor, belt, tune-up, right ball joint... looks like it's good to go on the shuttle though - getting the brakes serviced today. :thumb:

EDIT: Whahahahahahahah you said clipless!!! :devil:

Originally posted by ummbikes
Ya I feel that. One problem. We need a new matress as our $200 one we bought 8 years ago seems to be killing us slowly as we sleep. Plus my Trooper needs about $300 worth of new sensors to make it run right. So I'll be waiting a while for upgrades...:(

Maybe if I am particularly good I can get some some new cycling shoes and a bearing kit for my clipless pedal.

[Frenchy]

I usually vote for the lesser evil. Last time I voted for Gore, Bush was easily more evil. Next time around I think Bush has cornered the Evil thing again. Also about this tax credit crap, $400 a child barely adds up to little more than a dollar a day for your kid. The government acts like it's giving us a load of cash. I'd rather give the extra dollar a day to my kids teacher, they don't get paid enough.

[Spud]

The evil of two lessers :evil:

[ohio]

Originally posted by Frenchy
Also about this tax credit crap, $400 a child barely adds up to little more than a dollar a day for your kid. The government acts like it's giving us a load of cash. I'd rather give the extra dollar a day to my kids teacher, they don't get paid enough.

As I much as I despise Bush, I have to point out that you can STILL give your kids teacher that $400, now that it's sitting in your pocket.

The problem is you probably won't. And the parents of all the other kids CERTAINLY won't. We're not a particularly charitable or philanthropic society.

[Frenchy]

Unfortunately your right, we are not really a giving society. It's like having teachers working for Tips. As other posters have said, something else always comes up that needs your extra cash like car repairs etc... I would just rather the tax money we do pay go to a good use. To me the most patriotic thing you can do to support your country is pay your taxes to keep it running.

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
I did and will again unless someone better...or less evil comes along. I don't vote along party lines - I vote solely based on the individual candidate and how that candidate is likely to represent me...the almighty voter. :-)

They're all puppets of the Illuminati anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

:rolleyes:

[valve bouncer]

I didn't vote for him, don't blame me....anyway it doesn't matter who you vote for the government always gets in:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)
Actually here in Japan, I'm pretty p*ssed off, I mean I pay all these taxes just like all the other Japanese but I don't get a say in how they are administered. I mean it really sucks and I wanna do something about it so I've come up with a slogan "no taxation without representation" ........???????..... So whaddya all think....is it a goer??????? Will it get people out in the streets?

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
I mean it really sucks and I wanna do something about it so I've come up with a slogan "no taxation without representation"


I think you should sue the Continental Congress for plagerism, too. ;)

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by llkoolkeg
I think you should sue the Continental Congress for plagerism, too. ;)
What???? You mean it's been done before? Who, when, what, why and where. How did it turn out in the end? Details please....

[MikeD]

Originally posted by ohio
As I much as I despise Bush, I have to point out that you can STILL give your kids teacher that $400, now that it's sitting in your pocket.



Actually, they're probably under the same or similar rules to federal employees that prohibit them from accepting gifts of that sort, to prevent graft and corruption and all that.

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
What???? You mean it's been done before? Who, when, what, why and where. How did it turn out in the end? Details please....

The new Washington, DC license plates have "Taxation Without Representation" on them.

http://dmv.washingtondc.gov/serv/plates/tax.shtm

[partsbara]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
What???? You mean it's been done before? Who, when, what, why and where. How did it turn out in the end? Details please....



SUE them crent.. they stole ya shiat...

voting is overrated

parts

[golgiaparatus]

LOL!!!

Great thread....must....bump :D

[BlackhillsBob]

I bet all you Bush haters that live in California voted for a great guy like Gray Davis right.........HA, is arse is gone!

[Sideways]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
So this stupid Iraq thing is all your fault?

This stupid Iraq thing is everyones fault!
As long as you rely on petroleum derivatives, you continue support the war.

[Sideways]

Originally posted by BikeGeek
The new Washington, DC license plates have "Taxation Without Representation" on them.

http://dmv.washingtondc.gov/serv/plates/tax.shtm


WOW! :cool:

[johnbryanpeters]

I voted without enthusiasm for Gore, watched in horror as the Republicans stole the election, and with disgust as people wasted third-party votes on candidates who did not stand a chance. I decided that, with all that, the system actually worked - we do not currently suffer juntas.

Third parties could win eventually if they first got a solid enough base in the legislature, but until that happens, third party presidential votes are simply destructive.

For the upcoming exercise, having lived here during Dean's administration, he's my current favorite. He's a real person and does not pander excessively to the press or special interests. Kerry's little Vietnam "accident" does not fill me with enthusiasm, and Lieberman, well, no way.

J

[SuzyCreamcheese]

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
For the upcoming exercise, having lived here during Dean's administration, he's my current favorite. He's a real person and does not pander excessively to the press or special interests. Kerry's little Vietnam "accident" does not fill me with enthusiasm, and Lieberman, well, no way.

J

Of the crop of Democrats, Dean is probably the best and could possibly get my vote. Kerry lost me when he voted to give the war powers to Bush and also voted for the "Patriot" Act, then turned around and started crying about the way the Bush Regime was using them. Kucinich voted against both of those pieces of legislation. Lieberman? Nope can't get excited about him.

Wouldn't it be a kick if all of a sudden another Republican announced? I mean after last week's embarrassingly poor excuse of a press conference, couldn't they find someone who had a clue about what is going on?

The Cheese

[llkoolkeg]

...but given the option of bush or a late-night spin on my XC bike, I voted for bush. :D

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
This stupid Iraq thing is everyones fault!
As long as you rely on petroleum derivatives, you continue support the war.
Do you really believe the war was about oil for the USA?

If so, go check past threads here to educate yourself.

[I Are Baboon]

I voted for Bush. Not sure who I will vote for in 2004 though. :monkey:

[brenth]

Well, I live in florida, and I was in L.A. that day, And I totally forgot to get a absentee ballot. :D

[ghostrider]

I've figured out the problem. The country is split about 50-50 between liberals and conservatives (see the last election). Democracy doesn't work so well when the country is divided like this - you end up with 49% of the population that doesn't support the president. Luckily, I have a solution:

Split the country in two: 'US East' and 'US West'. Put the dems in the west and the conservatives in the east. Everybody would be happy. Only problem is, I give it less than two years before the US East starts bombing our asses here in CA.

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by Silver
All Bush has shown me is that I will never ever vote for a fundamentalist Christian ever, for any position, even if it's fvcking kindergarten class president. Now, before you think I'm bashing Christians, sure, I am. I also won't vote for a fundamentalist Muslim, or a fundamentalist Jew either. I don't like it when politicians get to appeal to their imaginary friend for justification for thier actions.

I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

You said it dude. If you run in 2004, you gots my vote.

[Sideways]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Do you really believe the war was about oil for the USA?

If so, go check past threads here to educate yourself.

How about you do some research?

Project for the New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm)
Check out he names at the bottom, research their background and tell me what you find.

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
How about you do some research?

Project for the New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm)
Check out he names at the bottom, research their economic background and tell me what you find.
yeah, i read that... like a year ago. And if you had checked any of the threads here, you'd have seen I kept asking people to visit that site.

So many of them have economic ties, big deal. But you're focusing on one tiny piece of the big picture. That site stresses expanding the American Empire and positioning ourselves throughout the world for our expansion and protection of our way of life.

I'm surprised you glossed over all that and went for the tiny emotional piece being oil :rolleyes:

Also, lesser known and far more terrifying is the idea that they're furthering their religious agenda. From what I understand of thier religous beliefs, the state of Israel must occupy Jerusalem for Jesus to return. Since Iraq consistently had no problems dropping SCUDs on Israel whenever there was a conflict and since the USA had a "reason" to invade Iraq, that was a no-brainer for this Administration... eliminate one threat to Israel while expanding the Empire.

[Sideways]

Yeah, its not just oil...its religion and defense spending as well...
For those who don't care to research on their own:

Elliott Abrams, a former Reagan-era Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs. During the Iran/Contra scandal, Abrams pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of lying to Congress but was later pardoned by the first Bush administration. He subsequently became president of the Ethics in Public Policy Center. He is currently a member of Bush's National Security Council.

Gary Bauer, a Republican presidential candidate in 2000, who currently is president of an organization named American Values.

William J. Bennett, who served during the Reagan and first Bush administrations as U.S. Secretary of Education and Drug Czar. Upon leaving government office, Bennett became a "distinguished fellow" at the conservative Heritage Foundation, co-founded Empower America, and established himself as a self-proclaimed expert on morality with his authorship of The Book of Virtues.

Jeb Bush, the son of former President George Herbert Walker Bush and brother of current President George W. Bush. At the time of PNAC's founding, Jeb Bush was a candidate for the Florida governor's seat, a position which he currently holds.

Dick Cheney, the former White House Chief of Staff to Gerald R. Ford, six-term Congressman, and Secretary of Defense to the first President Bush, was serving as president of the oil-services giant Halliburton Company at the time of PNAC's founding. He subsequently became U.S. vice president under George W. Bush.

Eliot A. Cohen, a professor of strategic studies at John Hopkins University

Paula Dobriansky, vice president and director of the Washington office of the Council on Foreign Relations. Currently Dobriansky serves in the Bush administration as Undersecretary of State for Global Affairs.

Steve Forbes, publisher, billionaire, and Republican presidential candidate in 1996 and 2000. Forbes has also campaigned actively on behalf of the "flat tax," which would reduce the federal tax burden for wealthy individuals like himself.

Aaron Friedberg, professor of politics and international affairs; Director, Center of International Studies; Director, Research Program in International Security, Woodrow Wilson School, Princeton University.

Francis Fukuyama, author of The End of History and the Last Man; Dean of the Faculty and Bernard L. Schwartz Professor of International Political Economy at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University.

Frank Gaffney - conservative columnist; founder and president of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C. Web-site: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/

Fred C. Ikle, "distinguished scholar" at the Center for Strategic and International Studies

Donald Kagan, professor of history and classics at Yale University and the author of books including While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today; A Twilight Struggle: American Power and Nicaragua, 1977-1990"; and The Origins of War and the Preservation of Peace.'' Kagan is also a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a contributing editor at the Weekly Standard and a Washington Post columnist, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Alexander Hamilton fellow in American diplomatic history at American University. Past experience includes: Deputy for Policy in the State Department's Bureau of Inter-American Affairs (1985-1988); State Department's Policy Planning Staff member (1984-1985); speechwriter to Secretary of State George P. Shultz (1984-1985); foreign policy advisor to Congressman Jack Kemp (1983); Special Assistant to the Deputy Director of the United States Information Agency (1983); Assistant Editor at the Public Interest (1981).

Zalmay Khalilzad, an Afghan-American who was the only Muslim among the group's original signatories and the only signatory who was not a native-born U.S. citizen. Khalilzad has became the Bush administration's special envoy to Afganistan after the fall of the Taliban as well as is special envoy to the Iraqi opposition to Saddam Hussein. Khalilzad has written about information warfare, and in 1996 (in pre-Taliban days), he served as a consultant to the oil company Unocal Corporation (UNOCAL) regarding a "risk analysis" for its proposed pipeline project through Afghanistan and Pakistan.

William Kristol, PNAC's chairman, is also editor of the Weekly Standard, a Washington-based political magazine. His past involvements have included: lead of the Project for the Republican Future, chief of staff to Vice President J. Danforth
Quayle, chief of staff to Secretary of Education William J. Bennett under the Reagan administration, taught politics at the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
I. Lewis Libby, who later became chief of staff for Vice President
Dick Cheney.

Norman Podhoretz, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and author of works such as Patriotism and its Enemies.

J. Danforth Quayle, former vice president under President George Herbert Walker Bush and a presidential candidate himself in 1996.

Peter W. Rodman, who served in the State Department and the National Security Council under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush, became the current Bush administration's Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security affairs in 2001.

Stephen P. Rosen, Beton Michael Kaneb Professor of National Security and Military Affairs at Harvard University.

Henry S. Rowen was president of the RAND Corporation from 1967-1972. He served under former presidents Reagan and Bush as chairman of the National Intelligence Council (1981-83) and Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs (1989-91). He currently holds the title of "senior fellow" at the Hoover Institute

Donald H. Rumsfeld served former President Gerald R. Ford as chief of transition after Richard M. Nixon's resignation, later becoming Ford's chief of staff and secretary of defense from 1973-75. He subsequently served from 1990-93 as CEO of General Instrument Corporation and later as Chairman of the Board of Gilead Sciences, a pharmaceutical company. In 1998 he served as chairman of the bi-partisan US Ballistic Missile Threat Commission. Under President George W. Bush, he once again assumed the post of Secretary of Defense.

Vin Weber, a former Republican congressman from Minnesota, is now a well-connected lobbyist who has represented such firms as AT&T, Lockheed Martin and Microsoft. Veber is also vice chairman of Empower America and a former fellow of the Progress and Freedom Foundation.

George Weigel, a Roman Catholic religious and political commentator, is a "senior fellow" at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

Paul Dean Wolfowitz, formerly Dean and Professor of International Relations at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, became Undersecretary of Defense for President George W. Bush in 2001.

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
Yeah, its not just oil...its religion and defense spending as well...
ah, so you agree with me that oil is way down the agenda for most of these people. Cool.

[partsbara]

opie and sideways, your both wrong

the war was about the liberation of iraq

I R A Q I F R E E D O M

:rolleyes:

'not about oil', try telling that to the remainded of the world... it s as obvious as the nose on ya face...

sideways - 1
lord opie - 0

partsbara (the official scorekeeper and freedom toast eater)

[Sideways]

WhatHuh?

Not quite getting what was just said in the previous two posts...sorry if the rolly eyes didn't communicate....

My take on it:
Afganistan was entirely about oil.
Iraq is half oil, half religion. They've got oil and are within striking range of Isreal.
The Bush administration has its intrests in oil, religion, and war....lotsa big money in war...check where daddy's got major economic holdings!

I'm not sure what was said above.
LordOpie: no, oil is a big concern...its the basic economic funding for everything else on their agenda.
Parts: I really didn't catch that....I sincerly hope you don't beleive the conservative right actually gives a hoot about downtrodden, disenfranchised, underprivledged individuals!
Freedom = glitering generality.

[partsbara]

Originally posted by Sideways
WhatHuh?

Not quite getting what was just said in the previous two posts...sorry if the rolly eyes didn't communicate....

My take on it:
Afganistan was entirely about oil.
Iraq is half oil, half religion. They've got oil and are within striking range of Isreal.
The Bush administration has its intrests in oil, religion, and war....lotsa big money in war...check where daddy's got major economic holdings!

I'm not sure what was said above.
LordOpie: no, oil is a big concern...its the basic economic funding for everything else on their agenda.
Parts: I really didn't catch that....I sincerly hope you don't beleive the conservative right actually gives a hoot about downtrodden, disenfranchised, underprivledged individuals!
Freedom = glitering generality.

understood mate... large portion sarcasm

parts

[TCoop924]

I'm with you Sideways. Even with all the dispute about what the war was "really" about, it seems painfully obvious that Iraqi "freedom" was not a top priority. Hell, I'm not even sure it ever was a concern really. Probably just some White House Aide telling Bush that the American people probably wouldn't go along w/ a war if it was for oil and religion...."Uh, ok...yeah, let's free the Iraqi's. That's what the war will be about...oh yeah...and terrorism.":D Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, but W. pisses me off.

[partsbara]

Originally posted by TCoop924
I'm with you Sideways. Even with all the dispute about what the war was "really" about, it seems painfully obvious that Iraqi "freedom" was not a top priority. Hell, I'm not even sure it ever was a concern really. Probably just some White House Aide telling Bush that the American people probably wouldn't go along w/ a war if it was for oil and religion...."Uh, ok...yeah, let's free the Iraqi's. That's what the war will be about...oh yeah...and terrorism.":D Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, but W. pisses me off.

exactly

it really isn t that hard to see is it ?... 'iraqi freedom' what a joke - biggest PR stunt ever

parts

[RockTumbler]

moi

[shocktower]

Originally posted by Silver
All Bush has shown me is that I will never ever vote for a fundamentalist Christian ever, for any position, even if it's fvcking kindergarten class president. Now, before you think I'm bashing Christians, sure, I am. I also won't vote for a fundamentalist Muslim, or a fundamentalist Jew either. I don't like it when politicians get to appeal to their imaginary friend for justification for thier actions.

I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

In a MTB bro way ,I just can`t believe in any thing thats not hear and now or ever ;) ;) ;) ;) ,btw ,if I win the lotto today ,I will open my own church of fornication :D :D :D ,and that`s all we`ll do ,and of course help sick kid`s ;) ;)

[Certified Drunk]

How did this turn from; who did you vote for to war for oil? that another debate all toghter!

NOT GET YOUR DEBATES MIXED UP! :D this should have been a poll!
Who want's some Bush?
Gore?
Tree hugger?
Liberal?
Who eles was on the ballet? SORRY, I forgot

Dont blame Bush for the way things are today, Clinton started the down turn. Sh1t started to go down in early 1999 as Monica was going down on Bill.

enough said!

[shocktower]

If georgie has his way there will be no more fricking trees to hug :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ,welcome to the real world ;) ;) ;)

[shocktower]

If georgie has his way there will be no more fricking trees to hug :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ,welcome to the real world ;) ;) ;)