Religeous question

[eric strt6]

I've never heard a good explanation for this and its always puzzeled me. In the 10 commandments it says "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments."

my question: why is the figure of Jesus on the cross not considered a Graven Image?

[Brian HCM#1]

Good point. Any good answers?

[ummbikes]

That is a denomonational issue, some have no problem with it, where I worship we don't have any crucifix. We do have a cross, but we don't worship it.

[Zonic Man]

Because, just because, damnit.

[Damn True]

lol

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Zonic Man
Because, just because, damnit. Thats the best answer I've heard all day. It's because thats what I've been told to believe.

[mr_dove]

My church has no crosses. The cross celebrates Christs death, but christ is NOT dead. He is alive.

We believe that the ressurection of christ is more important than his crufixion (sp?). His ressurection is what makes it possible for US to be ressurected and what gives us the chance for eternal life and repentance.

[eric strt6]

hmmn still no answers to the question:confused:

[mr_dove]

Yes

[Damn True]

why is the figure of Jesus on the cross not considered a Graven Image?


It kinda is. That is why you don't see it in most Christian churches. As for why Catholic churches do display it, I don't know.

[KrusteeButt]

Hmmmm....well, born and raised (though not practicing) Roman Catholic.
I have to admit, I've never heard/read that version.
Ours was pretty much Thou shalt not make/worship false idols.
The teaching we received was that Jesus IS the Lord. In that sense, we are not worshipping a "false" idol. We are worshipping the Lord.
That's all I can make of it. It's just an assumption...no "fact" behind my theory.

[fourgivn1]

You have a point and a good one at that. Although, as others have said, my church as well has no cross on the wall. Although I wouldn't worship it even if it was on the wall. I'd pray to God and worship Him even if there was nothing around but a cheeseburger.

But I would not worship the cheeseburger. I'd eat it.

[gecko]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
You have a point and a good one at that. Although, as others have said, my church as well has no cross on the wall. Although I wouldn't worship it even if it was on the wall. I'd pray to God and worship Him even if there was nothing around but a cheeseburger.

But I would not worship the cheeseburger. I'd eat it.

What if the cheese sort of looked like Jesus? You'd have a dilemma wouldn't you? :p

[fourgivn1]

I guess I'd have to throw it on the wall and then worship it where it stuck. :p :D :rolleyes:

[Tenaciousle0]

actually a graven image refers to one of the household gods of idolators

Deut. 27:15; Ps. 97:7
"Every nation and city had its own gods...Yet every family had its separate household or tutelary god.":dancing:

Problem Solved

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by mr_dove
The cross celebrates Christs death,



We believe that the ressurection of christ is more important than his crufixion (sp?)


Not exactly, the image of Christ on the cross is not a celebration of his death, it is a reminder of the sacrifice he was willing to make on our behalf.

Everything else you said sounded perfect.

[BarbaRosa]

the difference of the cross as symbolic and as idol is the question.

you would worship an idol

a symbol is a ...... declaration of position ... ie, follower of Christ


that is my take of the question and of the reference to idols right or wrong....


The Hindu religion has many Gods/Goddess idols.... some are cool imagery and where reminders of the story behind the Gd/Gdes....

but, every one twists everything for thier own use and or based on what they were indocterinated with as a youth.

[jabberwocky]

Christ is part of the Holy trinity (the father, the son, and the holy ghost). Its kinday like nato's responce to 9/11, a prayer to one is a prayer to them all.

In fact I'm pretty sure that refering to the cross as a graven image would have had you tagged as a blasphemour and tortured by the Spanish inquisition a few hundred years ago. But now we just chuck it up to naivitee.

[-BB-]

Originally posted by eric strt6
I've never heard a good explanation for this and its always puzzeled me. In the 10 commandments it says "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments."

my question: why is the figure of Jesus on the cross not considered a Graven Image?

Why ask Why?
(drink Bud Dry)

It also says that if anyone in your lineage up to 1000 generations ago (if 1 generation = 20 years, that is 20,000 years) loved God, then he will show you mercey.

Or... even if you are the best christian, if your Parents, Grandparents, Great... and Great Great bowed down to another god, then YOU will STILL BE DAMNED.

So... Why ask Why.

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by -BB-


Why ask Why?
(drink Bud Dry)

It also says that if anyone in your lineage up to 1000 generations ago (if 1 generation = 20 years, that is 20,000 years) loved God, then he will show you mercey.

Or... even if you are the best christian, if your Parents, Grandparents, Great... and Great Great bowed down to another god, then YOU will STILL BE DAMNED.

So... Why ask Why.

Curiousity about other faiths [no I'm not of christian faith] and the version quoted above is from the old testament [or only testament if you are of other faiths][ or pure fiction if you are not of any Judeo Christian religion]

[-BB-]

Originally posted by eric strt6


Curiousity about other faiths [no I'm not of christian faith] and the version quoted above is from the old testament [or only testament if you are of other faiths][ or pure fiction if you are not of any Judeo Christian religion]

I wasn't being serious about that...
I was just saying that If you want, you can find a passage in the bible that can be interpreted in a way that will either prove or disprove anything you want.

[fourgivn1]

This is very true.....but at the same time, it also usually requires some 'ignorance' on the part of what other Scriptures say. A good example is the remark that -BB- said above. (I'm not saying he is ignorant, not at all. I'm just using that specific paraphrased scripture as an example.) One COULD construe that as meaning that God won't send you to Hell if you're not a Christian and refuse to hear Him when He speaks to someone. But other scriptures specifically say you can't enter the kingdom of heaven unless you are born again, and that "no one goes to the father except through me (Jesus)." God shows mercy every day by not obliterating the planet, if you want to get down to brass tacks, because every day people kill/rape/cheat/steal/lie/a buncha other bad things, and multiply them by about 6 billion....you get the picture. *L*

[splat]

Now I'm Going way back to Sunday school. My understading of the Cross was Not to pray to or show Christs Death , But Rather His Reserection and accention to Heaven. And everyone's eternaly life in Heaven ( or Hell) after death .

My older brother always used to refer to the Father , Son and Holy Spirt , as Big Daddy , Jr. and Spook! I always liked that little bit of Blasphomy.

[fourgivn1]

The way I always thought of it, was that it was sort of 'wrong' to have crosses w/Jesus on them (as quite a lot - but not ALL - Catholics do - my grandma and aunts are an example) because Jesus is not ON the cross. To me, personally, the Cross is never to be prayed to, or worshipped (but you guys know this), but to simply serve as a reminder of the sacrifice that Jesus gave for all of us - and also to remind us (in the case of the crosses w/o Jesus on them) of His resurrection.

[JesusFreak]

agreed with others that something is not biblically considered "graven image" unless next part of commandment (bowing down, worship, attributing intrinsic power or life or praise/honor)
is violated.

god commanded moses to make image of snakes lifted up on pole (like our medical symbol), wherin whoever was bitten by snake (because of their sin at the time) could look at it and live. this was a 'picture' of the sacrifice of christ for forgiveness of sin for those who would 'look' at him. problem is, the people kept this symbol and began to worship it as having intinsic power.

i don't have problem with crucifix. it's a reminder and a sign to the world. picture's worth a thousand words. it's awful hard to look at it, and consider what actually happened, and not have sober realization of the weight of that act. "if i be lifted up, i shall draw all men unto me".

would, however, advise against worshipping it. that would constitute idolatry.

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by JesusFreak
agreed with others that something is not biblically considered "graven image" unless next part of commandment (bowing down, worship, attributing intrinsic power or life or praise/honor)
is violated.

god commanded moses to make image of snakes lifted up on pole (like our medical symbol), wherin whoever was bitten by snake (because of their sin at the time) could look at it and live. this was a 'picture' of the sacrifice of christ for forgiveness of sin for those who would 'look' at him. problem is, the people kept this symbol and began to worship it as having intinsic power.

i don't have problem with crucifix. it's a reminder and a sign to the world. picture's worth a thousand words. it's awful hard to look at it, and consider what actually happened, and not have sober realization of the weight of that act. "if i be lifted up, i shall draw all men unto me".

would, however, advise against worshipping it. that would constitute idolatry.

Fair nuff thanks guys, this gives me a better insight into the reasoning and symbology

[fourgivn1]

Hooray! A religious topic with discussions that ended amicably, with little to no fighting!

Proof that the end of the world is near. :D :rolleyes:

*ROTFLOL* :rolleyes:

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by fourgivn1
Hooray! A religious topic with discussions that ended amicably, with little to no fighting!



*ROTFLOL* :rolleyes:

I can fix that if you like:devil:

[fourgivn1]

Naah....I'm trying to enjoy the split second of peace and quiet. :D

[disclosednot]

Okay here's my deal.
Its not considered a graven image to me because of the whole holy trinity thing. This means that though God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are seperate entities, they are all one supreme being. So by worshipping the cross you are really worshipping the trinity or something along those lines. Wow that even confuses me.

:confused:

[shocktower]

Originally posted by Damn True
why is the figure of Jesus on the cross not considered a Graven Image?


It kinda is. That is why you don't see it in most Christian churches. As for why Catholic churches do display it, I don't know.

I love the catholic church,not really ,put the head honcho the holy one ( the POPE ) in a Highchair ,and watch him twitch ,the catholic church is :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: ,they like young boys taking the comunion GU :eek: :eek: :eek: ,if this guy is really holy why don`t he just talk to GOD for a little help with the parkinsons ,cause he`s not holy ,and noboy has really talked to god ,and the ten commandments were deffintly written by a egomaniac man :eek: