Legal Prostitution???? [Archive]

RideMonkey

07-01-2002, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by BMXman
I was having a disscussion with a fellow employee and this topic came up...she thinks that if it were legal it would surely tear at the moral fabric of the US...but I think we could better serve the public by using law enforcement resources for more serious crimes..ie.. murder, rape, molestation.....I think as long as there is a supply there will be a demand...the prostitutes would not be out there if no one solicited them.....what say you.....D

Yup cops have better things to do. I have never understood how the government could justify regulating sex - which is one of the most basic human functions.

mrbigisbudgood

07-01-2002, 12:10 PM

Prostitutes have a freakin UNION in Amsterdam.........

BMXman

07-01-2002, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by mrbigisbudgood
Prostitutes have a freakin UNION in Amsterdam.........

see that's what I mean if they're still going to do it then we should at least regulate it like Nevada does.....D

I Are Baboon

07-01-2002, 12:20 PM

Sure, make it legal! Think of all the additional tax revenues the government could bring in!

:dancing:

-BB-

07-01-2002, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by BMXman
I was having a disscussion with a fellow employee and this topic came up...she thinks that if it were legal it would surely tear at the moral fabric of the US...but I think we could better serve the public by using law enforcement resources for more serious crimes..ie.. murder, rape, molestation.....I think as long as there is a supply there will be a demand...the prostitutes would not be out there if no one solicited them.....what say you.....D

I was walking down Mission St. over the weekend and this woman came up to Denise(my fiance) and said, "My husband really wants to suck on your Boobies!!"
LOL... should I be pissed :angry: or take it s a compliment?:D

Heidi

07-01-2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by -BB-

I was walking down Mission St. over the weekend and this woman came up to Denise(my fiance) and said, "My husband really wants to suck on your Boobies!!"
LOL... should I be pissed :angry: or take it s a compliment?:D

WTF? That's ridiculous!

-BB-

07-01-2002, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Heidi

WTF? That's ridiculous!

I KNOW!!!

And I was walking right next to her.
What did she think? That I was her PIMP?

Damn True

07-01-2002, 12:59 PM

Maybe she thought that you put the GRRRRR in SWINGRRRRRR!

Yeah baby, yeah!

Heidi

07-01-2002, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by -BB-

I KNOW!!!

And I was walking right next to her.
What did she think? That I was her PIMP?

She was probably on drugs. How weird though!

-BB-

07-01-2002, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Damn True
Maybe she thought that you put the GRRRRR in SWINGRRRRRR!

Yeah baby, yeah!

LOL!!!

How was the Party Pimp :monkey: ?

Damn True

07-01-2002, 01:44 PM

toooooooooo good.
post and pics soon

-BB-

07-01-2002, 01:48 PM

LOL...

Hey True...
You should have been at my place on Saturday.
Every year the "Dike-March" goes past my APt.
BOOBIES GALORE!!!
At least a few hundred pairs.
Too bad they are not on "our" team. ;)

Toshi

07-01-2002, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by -BB-
Hey True...
You should have been at my place on Saturday.
Every year the "Dike-March" goes past my APt.
BOOBIES GALORE!!!
At least a few hundred pairs.
Too bad they are not on "our" team. ;)
I thought the deal was that they are on "our team" :eek: :D

Tenaciousle0

07-01-2002, 02:23 PM

Prostitution should be legal. Why is it illegal to sell something that you normally give away?:dancing:

Toshi

07-01-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Tenaciousle0
Prostitution should be legal. Why is it illegal to sell something that you normally give away?:dancing:
The problem with this argument is that it clearly doesn't work for somethings, like our organs (which many people donate, once braindead or if they're not vital). Selling organs is almost universally revolting, no? While I happen to agree that prostitution should be legalized, I don't think you can justify it using your argument.

-BB-

07-01-2002, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Toshi

I thought the deal was that they are on "our team" :eek: :D

NA... they want nothing to do w/ "US" ;)

Damn True

07-01-2002, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by -BB-

NA... they want nothing to do w/ "US" ;)

But we share a commonality. We both like girls.

I view them as the competition though.:D

ohio

07-01-2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Toshi

The problem with this argument is that it clearly doesn't work for somethings, like our organs (which many people donate, once braindead or if they're not vital). Selling organs is almost universally revolting, no?

I don't know... I wouldn't mind seeing Enron execs selling off their extra kidneys and maybe a retina or two to pay back all the money they effectively stole from their employees.

As for prostitution, having it illegal is (like I mentioned in another thread on a different subject) treating the symptom instead of the cause. Having it illegal doesn't make it any less prevalent, and legalizing it would help prevent disease, violence against women, sub-human living conditions and wages, drug-addiction, human slavery...

I don't think the government has the right to regulate what we choose to do with or put into our own bodies. Whether its tatoos, or alcohol, or parts of a complete stranger, if we are not harming each other then it's none of their business.

Damn True

07-01-2002, 03:17 PM

Which begs the question: Is the act of buying or selling flesh harmful? Physically? Psychologically? Sociologically?

Brian HCM#1

07-01-2002, 03:17 PM

It should be legal, it would cut down on crime big time.

ohio

07-01-2002, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Damn True
Which begs the question: Is the act of buying or selling flesh harmful? Physically? Psychologically? Sociologically?

I agree, and I figured that question would be asked...

My thoughts are that prostitution CAN be harmful in all three ways that you mention, but that legalization will reduce #1 and #2 significantly. Sociologically, it could at best cause no shift, and at worst (from what I believe to be a "Christian" point of view) encourage women to make the move to prostitution as a legitimate career choice, along the lines of exotic dancing, etc.

However, since I don't believe strongly in the existence of moral absolutes, I'm inclined to say that which isn't harmful physically and psychologically, SHOULDN'T be sociologically harmful. That is I'm not concerned about the society's morals as a whole, because I believe that they can evolve... obviously that belief does not adhere well to most religious philosophies.

Damn True

07-01-2002, 04:06 PM

So you don't think there is a psychological negative to trading that which is supposed to be shared between two people (ideally married people) who love each other for cash? To reducing a womans body to to a saleable comodity?

Wow, do you have a daughter? Would you see prostitution as a "legitimate career choice, along the lines of exotic dancing, etc." for her? What if your wife was interested in a "carrer change"?

ohio

07-01-2002, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Damn True
So you don't think there is a psychological negative to trading that which is supposed to be shared between two people (ideally married people) who love each other for cash? To reducing a womans body to to a saleable comodity?

Wow, do you have a daughter? Would you see prostitution as a "legitimate career choice, along the lines of exotic dancing, etc." for her? What if your wife was interested in a "carrer change"?

I think there's only a psychological negative because society tells women that they are worthless and disgusting if they sleep with lots of men. The women that believe that and go into prostitution have deeper problems. Women that view sex as recreational fun don't suffer the same psychological torture from having sex. Not much different than what you see on college campuses. Girls throwing themselves at guys because they attach their own self-worth to having a man, only to fall into depression after every "encounter" because society tells them that what they did was dirty and wrong. In the meantime, women who are confident and comfortable with their own bodies, can have casual sex and not feel like killing themselves in the morning.

And no, I don't have daughters (that I know of :eek: ;) ), and admittedly if I did I would not want them going into prostitution. However there are a lot of professions I wouldn't want them going into.

So I guess the question I put back to you, is how do you view a man who sells himself for money. I think we agree that it's still pretty unsavory, but you probably don't feel as if the clients are taking advantage of him the same way male clients are "taking advantage" of a female prostitute. That's a double standard in our social mores, and THAT is the root of casual sex being psychologically detrimental to women.

Toshi

07-01-2002, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Damn True
So you don't think there is a psychological negative to trading that which is supposed to be shared between two people (ideally married people) who love each other for cash? To reducing a womans body to to a saleable comodity?
Maybe there is, but the point is that it should be up to the person to choose their calling.
Originally posted by Damn True
Wow, do you have a daughter? Would you see prostitution as a "legitimate career choice, along the lines of exotic dancing, etc." for her? What if your wife was interested in a "carrer change"?
Trying to talk your daughter out of being a prostitute is very different than being an adult and making a fully conscious decision to be a prostitute. Besides, didn't Deuce Bigolo: Male Gigolo teach you all that prostitution is heart-warming? :eek: ;)

Orvan

07-01-2002, 04:47 PM

uhmmm..where is this place at? how much?

ohio

07-01-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Toshi

Maybe there is, but the point is that it should be up to the person to choose their calling.

Trying to talk your daughter out of being a prostitute is very different than being an adult and making a fully conscious decision to be a prostitute. Besides, didn't Deuce Bigolo: Male Gigolo teach you all that prostitution is heart-warming? :eek: ;)

Great points, Toshi. I definitely skipped over those, and rambled meaninglessly. You nailed it in about 3 sentences.

Note to self: don't argue with harvard kids...

Babar

07-01-2002, 05:50 PM

But didn't i hear stuff on news that harvard was really easy and everyone was getting an A :)

Toshi

07-01-2002, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Babar
But didn't i hear stuff on news that harvard was really easy and everyone was getting an A :)
oh no, you just didn't! :eek: The grades started being deflated last year -- many courses dropped down a full grade on average. Also, even while grade inflation was rampant, it was only rampant in certain departments. For example, in CS all the courses seem to be (and did so prior to last year) curved around a B-, while in Af-Am Studies you were doing poorly if you weren't pulling in an A-. :rolleyes: Certain other departments, such as Math, will kick you around all semester, then give you an A-. Don't ask.

Damn True

07-01-2002, 06:03 PM

I think there's only a psychological negative because society tells women that they are worthless and disgusting if they sleep with lots of men. The women that believe that and go into prostitution have deeper problems. Women that view sex as recreational fun don't suffer the same psychological torture from having sex. Not much different than what you see on college campuses. Girls throwing themselves at guys because they attach their own self-worth to having a man, only to fall into depression after every "encounter" because society tells them that what they did was dirty and wrong. In the meantime, women who are confident and comfortable with their own bodies, can have casual sex and not feel like killing themselves in the morning.

That depends on how you view promiscuity. I don't think somone who has a past that is less than virtuous is necessarily "worthless and disgusting". An active (hopefully safe) sex life or promiscuity is one thing. Selling your body is altogether different.

And no, I don't have daughters (that I know of ), and admittedly if I did I would not want them going into prostitution. However there are a lot of professions I wouldn't want them going into.

I hear ya. I wouldn't want my daugher to be a lawyer either.

So I guess the question I put back to you, is how do you view a man who sells himself for money. I think we agree that it's still pretty unsavory, but you probably don't feel as if the clients are taking advantage of him the same way male clients are "taking advantage" of a female prostitute. That's a double standard in our social mores, and THAT is the root of casual sex being psychologically detrimental to women.

It's absolutely the same thing. Though I agree that most people would view it as having less of a "victim" role in terms of the male prostitute vs. the female prostitute. Not sure why. Perhaps because the think a man should be more able to prevent himself from having to resort to such things. I'd venture to guess though that the life histories (physical, psychological, drug, alcohol abuse) are largely shared regardless of the sex of the prostitute in question. In fact, I'd bet that if your took the names off of individual case histories you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between males and females.

Damn True

07-01-2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Toshi

oh no, you just didn't! :eek: The grade started being deflated last year -- many courses dropped down a full grade on average. Also, even while grade inflation was rampant, it was only rampant in certain departments. For example, in CS all the courses seem to be (and did so before) around a B-, while in Af-Am Studies you were doing poorly if you weren't pulling in an A-. :rolleyes: Certain other departments, such as Math, will kick you around all semester, then give you an A-. Don't ask.

Hmmm.
So once you are in, you are "IN"?

kidding.

BMXman

07-01-2002, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Damn True
Which begs the question: Is the act of buying or selling flesh harmful? Physically? Psychologically? Sociologically?

I think a woman has to be mentally strong to be a prostitute..if she is then she can discipline herself to just take the sex as a physical function for money and not let it get to her emotional side....does that make any sense??

Sociologically though I think it would be tough...because there are too many people out there who try and push their own values and morals on to others and they are quick to judge. I use to date a dancer and when people found out what kind of dancing she did (exotic) they would always say "Damn! I'm sorry"...I use to think what the hell does that mean why are you sorry for me?? It's a perfectly legal living.....D

ibismojo

07-02-2002, 12:16 AM

what about the fashion industry? they buy flesh all the time. you don't see a fat ass posing for Guess or Versaci. it's all skinny ass chicks or some buff dude who looks just like the other buff dude but black who's sitting next to the pale skinny girl trying to look like the other skinny white girl strung up on meth cause the water and water diet wasn't cutting it. (this is in reference to damn true's quote, "Which begs the question: Is the act of buying or selling flesh harmful? Physically? Psychologically? Sociologically?")

how about those one night stands? or where the guy thinks it's a one night stand only for the chick to realize she was used. why not cut the BS and just go for the sex? if you want someone to screw, why bother going through the whole, "hi, you're hot, lemme buy you a drink, drunk yet, come over to my place, have another drink, drunk yet, now you look totally hot, but that's because i'm drunk as well...........several beers, and hours later......thanks babe, don't call me."

legalize prostitution...and let the ladies see what kind of dudes they were dating.

Mr. ShockWave

07-02-2002, 07:23 AM

Let me point out the dutch side ;)

The legalizing of prostitutes did not have the effect they wanted, most important point is that it did not help the girls/women in any way, they are not better off with legalizing, instead the pimps are better off with it, and there is still a large part off illegal womanbusiness, in fact it is still the largely part of the prostitutionbusiness as a whole.

They still lure girls/women from eastern europe (Poland, Russia, and all those places) for work in the Netherlands as an maid or something like that, but when they arrive they are forced into prostitution, and as they had to give they pasport to those people, they have no rights anymore, and they can do with the girls/women as they please, like sex without a condom, and various sorts of sex or SM, if they like it or not. and it's big business.

For the legalisation of it everyone should benefit from it, especially the girls/women, but it does not.

It is for them in the Netherlands as living in hell

legalised.....

Damn True

07-02-2002, 09:21 AM

Wow, I think a lot of you might have a romanticised view of prostitution. Take a second and ask if it is based on the, admittedly attractive, concept of a socially acceptible means of getting easy, anonymous, no-strings sex?

Prostitution bears zero resemblance to the "Pretty Woman" that we see. These women don't choose it because they dig sex with guys who can't get what they need somewhere legitimate. They don't choose a life that frequently involves being beaten, robbed, and left for dead.

These women aren't strong. They got where they are because of weakness. In that moment of weakness someone chose to exploit rather than help them. They are runaways, victims of sexual and physical abuse, frequently drug addicted. They have been victimized by people who are supposed to love them, by people who in weakness they trusted, and by those who patronize them. They turn to prostitution because they are made to think that their only worth is between their legs.

It really saddens me.

Babar

07-02-2002, 11:11 AM

Hey Toshi is it true that you get kicked out from Harvard if you get anything lower than GPA 2.0 or C ? or close range ?

My friends and i were talking about that and one of em said that they kick ya out if you don't do so good...

ohio

07-02-2002, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Damn True
Wow, I think a lot of you might have a romanticised view of prostitution. Take a second and ask if it is based on the, admittedly attractive, concept of a socially acceptible means of getting easy, anonymous, no-strings sex?

Prostitution bears zero resemblance to the "Pretty Woman" that we see. These women don't choose it because they dig sex with guys who can't get what they need somewhere legitimate. They don't choose a life that frequently involves being beaten, robbed, and left for dead.

These women aren't strong. They got where they are because of weakness. In that moment of weakness someone chose to exploit rather than help them. They are runaways, victims of sexual and physical abuse, frequently drug addicted. They have been victimized by people who are supposed to love them, by people who in weakness they trusted, and by those who patronize them. They turn to prostitution because they are made to think that their only worth is between their legs.

It really saddens me.

I agree with this almost entirely... almost because I don't believe that the above is universal; rather it applies to the (likely overwhleming) majority.

Unfortunately, prostitution's status as legal or illegal has little or no effect on the above. Prostitution in the form described above will continue to exist either way as a symptom of an unhealthy society, and in regards to curing that, I have no idea where to begin. My feelings about the subject is that if it were better regulated and better informed, the women that turn to prostitution might be more likely to recieve the help (psychological and medical, in addition to monetary) they need... I see it as a similar problem to illegal immigrants being smuggled into the country to work as slave/indentured labor in sweatshops. The status of the practice as illegal does little to help the workers caught in that situation... a better immigration policy and education system might.

This is the point where I run out of knowledge and expereince to draw from and begin talking entirely out of my patootie...

As for the reference to exotic dancing, I see the two as very different. (Hopefully I'm not contradicting myself too badly here, but...) Unless the dancer is working "overtime" in the VIP room, she is a performer not much different than any other dancer or musician. I would have no problem dating a dancer, while I would have problem dating an active prostitute.

Mr. ShockWave

07-02-2002, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by ohio

My feelings about the subject is that if it were better regulated and better informed, the women that turn to prostitution might be more likely to recieve the help (psychological and medical, in addition to monetary) they need... I see it as a similar problem to illegal immigrants being smuggled into the country to work as slave/indentured labor in sweatshops. The status of the practice as illegal does little to help the workers caught in that situation... a better immigration policy and education system might.

From the Netherlands experience, that does not work at all.

And something to add, in the Netherlands some part of prostitution is still illegal, the only part that is legalised are the prostitutes in brothels and behind "the red glass", prostitutes that are going after their costumers at the street, that is still illegal, but either way you see forced prostitution in every sector, so also in brothels and behind "the red glass".

And taxing those girls will make them pay more, and earn less money for their 1. drug addiction and 2. food to live.
mostly forced addiction to drugs, and if not they will run in it themselfs because they can't handle the pressure, and taxing will pressurise them more, and more pressure will mean more need to drugs...

ohio

07-02-2002, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Mr. ShockWave

From the Netherlands experience, that does not work at all.

Fair enough. Nothing speaks louder than real world experience. Chalk up a big thanks to the Netherlands for testing that one out for us...

I guess my point is that there is more we can do than just arresting hookers, and the problem doesn't begin with the women that turn to prostitution but with the folks that prey on them...

Mr. ShockWave

07-02-2002, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by ohio

Fair enough. Nothing speaks louder than real world experience. Chalk up a big thanks to the Netherlands for testing that one out for us...
:help:

I guess my point is that there is more we can do than just arresting hookers, and the problem doesn't begin with the women that turn to prostitution but with the folks that prey on them...
don't forget those bastards that exploit the girls :angry:

LeatherFace

07-02-2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Damn True

But we share a commonality. We both like girls.

I view them as the competition though.:D

As you should :devil:

gravity

07-04-2002, 06:44 AM

prostitutes are unfortunately, usually trapped in prostitution by one means or another. call me a coward, but it's a world i wish to have nothing to do with. i wish i could help, but the politics and danger inherent in that sleazy sort of stuff is beyond my grasp or comprehension.

gecko

07-04-2002, 07:37 AM

Ewww I can't imagine being desperate enough to ever sleep with a prostitute. I wonder if the demand for prostitution has changed over the years.

May as well legalize it, it's not like criminalizing it stops it, and I can see some positive attributes to it being legal.

gravity

07-05-2002, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by gecko
Ewww I can't imagine being desperate enough to ever sleep with a prostitute. I wonder if the demand for prostitution has changed over the years.

May as well legalize it, it's not like criminalizing it stops it, and I can see some positive attributes to it being legal.

i think Shockwave pointed out more negatives to legalising it..... i feel sorry for the people trapped in prostitution, and if it's "legal" and you can't help em get out, well then you've only made it worse.

Toshi

07-05-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Babar
Hey Toshi is it true that you get kicked out from Harvard if you get anything lower than GPA 2.0 or C ? or close range ?

My friends and i were talking about that and one of em said that they kick ya out if you don't do so good...
It's true. Get a D and you're put on probation by the ad board (adminstrative board) and if you don't shape up, then you are forced to take time off. I think it was something like 12 months away from Boston, with you working for 6 months.