I'm about as pro-gun as anyone I know, but this has got to be the stupidest example of "lawmaking" I've ever seen. Also, considering the times and current economic situation, this is a tremendous waste of time.
The Rundown: Basically the republicans won a ton of state seats in the last election, they've decided to wield their new-found power in some odd ways. The biggest examples are in passing legislation to allow guns in state parks, and now a law which will allow guns in bars. Yes, that's right, they are fighting to allow guns into drinking establishments. It passed through the legislature with flying colors, but our Governor (a democrat) finally displayed some common sense and vetoed the thing.
Today's news is that the Republicans are now planning a veto override. :rolleyes:
What in the ****ing fvck?
How important is this? We've got half the state's auto manufacturing plants closed or slowing production. The state is running broke and they're cutting state jobs like nobody's business, because of course the repubs wouldn't dare raise taxes significantly. Education and Healthcare here are among the worst in the US. And this is what the republicans are worried about. :crazy:
Here's a link:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/28/bredesen-veto-guns-bars-bill/
Advertisement
Westy
06-03-2009, 05:24 AM
If people can carry guns into bars they might buy more guns therefore helping the economy of Connecticut, Brazil and local funeral homes.
Oh and freedom is the biggest tent.
BurlyShirley
06-03-2009, 05:29 AM
Im pretty sure guns-in-bars wasn't even legal in Tombstone or Dodge City. I mean how stupid are these people?
http://kmoddesigns.com/store/images/Distinction%20Shot%20Glass.jpg
Guns and alcohol Shirl, they go together like sweaty balls and a hot day.
Westy
06-03-2009, 05:59 AM
More importantly, can I now get a beer at the shoot'n range?
4xBoy
06-03-2009, 06:00 AM
How better to encourage prohibition.
BurlyShirley
06-03-2009, 06:27 AM
From the NRA Website:
Never use alcohol or over-the-counter, prescription or other drugs before or while shooting.
Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp
Of course, the NRA is also strongly pushing for this legislation to pass:
It is critical that you contact your Representative and Senator immediately and ask that they vote to override the Governor’s veto of HB 962.
I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.
What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?
I Are Baboon
06-03-2009, 11:10 AM
You're probably hanging out in the wrong bars if you need to bring your gun with you.
kidwoo
06-03-2009, 11:12 AM
I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.
What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?
If that's the analogy that pops into your head then I guess I could see why you wouldn't see a problem.
Nevermind how completely misguided that analogy happens to be.
ohio
06-03-2009, 11:21 AM
I don't see a problem, really. If the state certifies people to carry I'd rather the weapons be on the owners hip versus in the glove box of their car.
What next, banning cars from the parking lots of places that serve alcohol?
Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?
1) Consumption of alcohol increases veracity of emotional response and decreases rational decision making capability. Additionally, for many people it causes an increase in aggression.
2) Having a firearm immediately available increases the probability that it will be used impulsively (that is, without logical consideration of consequences).
3) We carry or own guns because we need to be able to protect ourselves from other people that carry or own guns, and at this stage there's no way to prevent almost any criminal from obtaining a gun. However, at an individual establishment, it is quite easy to enforce a no-guns policy. There is no need for a gun in a bar if no one else has a gun in a bar.
4) Therefore.... ???
Not to mention that if two dip****s want to shoot each other in the parking lot, that's a whole lot less dangerous than two dip****s shooting each other in a crowded bar.
X3pilot
06-03-2009, 11:27 AM
You're probably hanging out in the wrong bars if you need to bring your gun with you.
Exactly! All the bars I go to have a complimentary loaner gun program so you don't have to bring yours in.
X3pilot
06-03-2009, 11:29 AM
Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?
1) Consumption of alcohol increases veracity of emotional response and decreases rational decision making capability. Additionally, for many people it causes an increase in aggression.
2) Having a firearm immediately available increases the probability that it will be used impulsively (that is, without logical consideration of consequences).
3) We carry or own guns because we need to be able to protect ourselves from other people that carry or own guns, and at this stage there's no way to prevent almost any criminal from obtaining a gun. However, at an individual establishment, it is quite easy to enforce a no-guns policy. There is no need for a gun in a bar if no one else has a gun in a bar.
4) Therefore.... ???
Not to mention that if two dip****s want to shoot each other in the parking lot, that's a whole lot less dangerous than two dip****s shooting each other in a crowded bar.
You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?
Really? You're having a hard time understanding this?
No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.
Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.
vtjim
06-03-2009, 12:05 PM
No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.
Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.
So by your argument there should be laws because people are going to be stupid anyway.
This law is not to prevent people from being stupid, it's to protect those of us who are not stupid from those who are stupid. It will not prevent that 100%, but it would go a long way.
stevew
06-03-2009, 12:13 PM
You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?
jesus restocking heaven with christian soldiers....
AngryMetalsmith
06-03-2009, 12:45 PM
No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.
Do you read what you post ?
:think:
MMike
06-03-2009, 12:58 PM
No, I understand it perfectly.
I grew up around guns. I grew up around drunks. We all survived because we aren't ****ing idiots.
Personally, I wouldn't support this measure but you can't legislate risk out of society. People do stupid **** (throw babies out of cars, hold children hostage in the basement, shoot up their classroom/office/church, become white guys with dreads) because they are ****ed in the head, not due to the lack of a law banning it.
holy crap....
moff_quigley
06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
holy crap....
Well you really shouldn't trust a white guy with dreads.
JohnE
06-03-2009, 01:09 PM
...or a bald barber. Or a dentist with bad teeth. Or skinny cooks.
ohio
06-03-2009, 01:17 PM
You're right, but how can it be explained about the rash of church shootings in the last few years?
Jesus increases veracity of emotional response, decreases rational decision making capability, and causes an increase in aggression.
sanjuro
06-03-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm against guns inside bars.
Screws up my usual MO of waiting in the parking lot to backshoot the guy who spilled drinks on me.
ebarker9
06-03-2009, 01:44 PM
To quote the Daily Show: "Alcohol causes problems, guns resolve problems..."
BurlyShirley
06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Welp, the veto-override just passed.
Im bringin' my gun to the bar I guess. Might as well have a fightin' chance when the sh*t goes down.
jimmydean
06-03-2009, 03:06 PM
Strippers with guns would be hawt.
X3pilot
06-04-2009, 06:02 AM
As you wish...
http://www.gunsgirlsetc.com/ggepostersmpl70LG.jpg
drkenan
06-04-2009, 07:01 AM
You guys are gonna kill each other faster than the Chinese and their new Hummers. :rofl:
DaveW
06-04-2009, 04:17 PM
You guys are gonna kill each other faster than the Chinese and their new Hummers. :rofl:
Well their Texans so it's not entirely a bad thing is it?:cheers:
Secret Squirrel
06-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Well their Texans so it's not entirely a bad thing is it?:cheers:
Uh....TN means Tennessee...but no...it's not entirely a bad thing.
DaveW
06-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Whoops my bad. :(
drkenan
06-04-2009, 04:41 PM
Whoops my bad. :(
Ha ha - Tennessee has a saving grace or 2 I guess. But that's still fvcking retarded. If I lived in TN I'd be having a lot more nights in.
AngryMetalsmith
06-04-2009, 05:46 PM
TN, taking giant leaps backwards.
Just unfvcking believable.
MikeD
06-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Part of the issue is that establishments (restaurants) which serve alcohol or contain a bar are considered "bars" under some state laws. A legal CCW carrier should be able to take his family to a restaurant (or eat there alone...just saying...) without needing to disarm himself.
I think the point would be better made not by banning guns from certain places by law (although private establishments can limit carry of their own will and accord) but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.
kingbee
06-12-2009, 01:26 PM
but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.
I just read through 3 pages to make sure I wasn't the first one to post this. I see no problem with allowing guns into bars or "establishments that serve alcohol". I do believe that it is illegal to carry a weapon and consume alcohol. I think everyone is assuming that if you go into a bar you are going to drink. This law is for those that don't intend to drink.
I cant carry into the local Applebees when I go to dinner with my wife because they serve alcohol. Doesn't seem right to me.
ohio
06-12-2009, 02:21 PM
This law is for those that don't intend to drink.
emphasis added.
ever had a night when you didn't intend to drink? 12 hours later you wake up with your face pressed into the cigarette burns of a stained shag carpet, underneath a 300lbs tranny and a thin layer of your own vomit? Well just be glad no one died.
edit: I see you frequent an Applebee's in Ohio. I take back what I said. You should be able to carry a gun, but only if you shoot everyone there.
MikeD
06-12-2009, 03:11 PM
emphasis added.
ever had a night when you didn't intend to drink? 12 hours later you wake up with your face pressed into the cigarette burns of a stained shag carpet, underneath a 300lbs tranny and a thin layer of your own vomit? Well just be glad no one died.
edit: I see you frequent an Applebee's in Ohio. I take back what I said. You should be able to carry a gun, but only if you shoot everyone there.
Although I agree with the edit, by your logic, no one should be able to drive to, from, or within 12 hours of entering any establishment which happens to serve alcohol, because only God knows when they'll start a spontaneous bender and then hop in the car.
1453
06-14-2009, 09:16 PM
I think the point would be better made not by banning guns from certain places by law (although private establishments can limit carry of their own will and accord) but by making the consumption of alcohol while armed illegal.
that's not entirely unreasonable.
In my recollection most states' permits(more than 40 states issue to all that qualify btw) have a lot of restrictions on what a permit holder can do while armed. A guy can go to prison if he has permit but allows his guns to be visible somehow, for example, that would be brandishing.
I'm not against people carrying legally in a business that serves alcohol, provided that he doesn't drink. Make sure that there are penalties for carrying under the influence and from the low arrest rate of CCW holders everywhere, that group of people are the least of my worries. From what I heard the violent crime arrest rate of CCW permit holders is close to that of police officers, and much much lower than the general public as a whole.
Sure it's easy to say that shoot-outs will happen and wild west will return, but those are the same straw-man arguement that people made against CCW permits in general. After two decades of CCW reform that didn't happen.
kidwoo
06-14-2009, 10:09 PM
Although I agree with the edit, by your logic, no one should be able to drive to, from, or within 12 hours of entering any establishment which happens to serve alcohol, because only God knows when they'll start a spontaneous bender and then hop in the car.
Must have been in a fraternity.
kingbee
06-15-2009, 07:50 AM
This is straight from my Ohio CCW Law book.
Forbidden Carry Zones:
-Licensed D-Liquor Permit premises in which any person is consuming liquor.
"Concealed firearms are banned in premises for which a D permit has been issued or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued. There are some exceptions to this prohibition. The prohibition does not apply to principal holder of a D permit as long as principal holder is not consuming liquor. The prohibition does not apply to an agent or employee of the principal holder who is also a peace officer who is also off duty. Possession of a concealed firearm is allowed in a retail store with a D-6 or D-8 permit as long as the concealed carry license holder is not consuming liquor. Class D permits are generally issued to an Establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises. In any event, be certain of the type of permit and whether liquor is being consumed before you enter with a concealed handgun."
So, its illegal to carry a gun into some place that is serving open alcohol. I can carry into Giant Eagle and get groceries, even buy beer. But if they are serving samples of wine (and they do rarely), I'm then illegally carrying my gun.
I cant legally carry in the Pizza Hut or Chipotle by me because they serve beer to consume. I'm not drinking, why shouldn't I be able to carry?
