Spy Photos of Kona full suspension single speed"AMMO"

[punkassean]

I have heard rumors over the past month or so of a single speed full suspension bike from Kona for 2003. Recently one of my friends found some pics on the web. It is supposed to have 3.5" rear travel and is basically like their existing XC frames but with the pivot around the bottom bracket allowing it to get away without using a chain tensioiner. Here's the puddin'...

[punkassean]

here's the close up of the "Cove" style main pivot.

Sean

[Instigator]

Interesting, but everytime I try and ride a single speed I end up breaking a chain:(

Maybe it is because of all the torque it takes to move my fat arse up hill:rolleyes:

[monkeywrench]

The best of both worlds: full suspension and singlespeeds. Unfortunately, I think your'e going to lose to much power to the suspension bob while climbing the really steep stuff. I'll still buy one though! :love: :thumb:

[punkassean]

It only has 3.5" travel so bob probably won't be too bad. But I have heard that pivots like the Ammo have (around the BB) tend to bob a bit more than other similar designs. I don't know how true that is because I have never heard anything bad about the Cove G-Spot and it uses the same design. Plus being a 4 bar link design the bob should be minimized at least that's what I would think.

Sean

[PGKelly]

lockout

p.s. that looks more like a semi-pivotless design rather than a genuine four bar, i don't see a pivot anywhere around the dropout.

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by punkassean
Plus being a 4 bar link design the bob should be minimized at least that's what I would think.

Sean


Your'e right about the four bar linkage. I had an Ellsworth Truth before my SS and the pedal bob was minimal. I really miss that bike, but it hung in my garage for six months, so I sold it. :(

[gravity]

Originally posted by punkassean
It only has 3.5" travel so bob probably won't be too bad. But I have heard that pivots like the Ammo have (around the BB) tend to bob a bit more than other similar designs. I don't know how true that is because I have never heard anything bad about the Cove G-Spot and it uses the same design. Plus being a 4 bar link design the bob should be minimized at least that's what I would think.

Sean

it's actually a linkage-activated singlepivot.... the linkage that works the shock doesn't affect the axle path. so it will still bob, like all Konas.

[MtnBikerChk]

I think I need a singlespeed (no derailleur hanger to bend - done it twice in 4 weeks now ) :)

[shootr]

gravity is correct, that is NOT a 4 link. it is a single pivot, with the pivot centered around the BB...
the reason for the location of the pivot around the BB, is that it is the simplest way to creat the singlespeed,
IF the pivot were relocated, the distance between the crank and rear axle centerlines would change, (either diminish or increase), resulting in the necessity of a derailluer hanger, to control the chain slack.

[Will_Jekyll]

Isn't FS going against everything a single speed is supposed to be. It was my understanding that single speeds meant more than just having one gear, they are supposed to be simple and elegant free of all of today's gadgetry. There are single speeders out there that refuse to even run front suspension.

One more thing with this design is the rider sprung or unsprung when standing? It was hard to see in the image if the bb was part of the swing arm.

[shootr]

no with this the rider is fully sprung.
The BB is part of the front triangle and the rear "triangle" is pivoted around the BB.

[PGKelly]

how about going the extra mile and making it a fixed gear, and doing away with the rear brake :D

[bomberz1qr20]

Originally posted by Instigator
Interesting, but everytime I try and ride a single speed I end up breaking a chain:(

Maybe it is because of all the torque it takes to move my fat arse up hill:rolleyes:

Ride one with a dedicated 3/32" cahin for single speeds, or a 1/8" BMX chain. I weigh over 200 so I have a KMC 410 street chain, no worries here!

[punkassean]

Originally posted by shootr
gravity is correct, that is NOT a 4 link. it is a single pivot, with the pivot centered around the BB...
the reason for the location of the pivot around the BB, is that it is the simplest way to creat the singlespeed,
IF the pivot were relocated, the distance between the crank and rear axle centerlines would change, (either diminish or increase), resulting in the necessity of a derailluer hanger, to control the chain slack.

Gravity is correct, you however are almost right. It is both a 4 bar link and sort of a single pivot. The best 4-bar linkage (Horst link) it is not, but since it uses four bars, it is technically a 4-bar linkage. Since it doesn't use just one pivot, it is not a true single pivot. however it will behave somewhat like a single pivot due to the fact that the distance relationship between the main pivot and the axle is fixed, forcing the axle to move in the same fashion as a single pivot. So to sum it up, it is a 4-bar, albeit not the best 4 bar but at least you don't pay extra for the patents from Specialized. I have ridden lot's of Konas and I own a Specialized I don't feel a big difference between them as far as bob is concerned. Regular Konas don't use the pivot around the BB so I assumed that by saying it was like a regular Kona but with the pivot around the BB people would figure out that was to accomodate the SS drivetrain. for the guy who didn't see, there is a tiny pivot above the rear dropout, it uses a small bushing because it only moves a few degrees and a bearing in that location would wear out quick. I wish I had better pics, but I don't

Sean

[Damn True]

Originally posted by punkassean


Gravity is correct, you however are almost right. It is both a 4 bar link and sort of a single pivot. The best 4-bar linkage (Horst link) it is not, but since it uses four bars, it is technically a 4-bar linkage. Since it doesn't use just one pivot, it is not a true single pivot. however it will behave somewhat like a single pivot due to the fact that the distance relationship between the main pivot and the axle is fixed, forcing the axle to move in the same fashion as a single pivot. So to sum it up, it is a 4-bar, albeit not the best 4 bar but at least you don't pay extra for the patents from Specialized. I have ridden lot's of Konas and I own a Specialized I don't feel a big difference between them as far as bob is concerned. Regular Konas don't use the pivot around the BB so I assumed that by saying it was like a regular Kona but with the pivot around the BB people would figure out that was to accomodate the SS drivetrain. for the guy who didn't see, there is a tiny pivot above the rear dropout, it uses a small bushing because it only moves a few degrees and a bearing in that location would wear out quick. I wish I had better pics, but I don't

Sean

Problem: If you have a pivot at the dropout then you have an axlepath that causes the distace between the front and rear chainrings to change. Wouldn't you need a bit of extra chain and a "singleator" type device to maintain proper tension against the slack?
I would think that w/o such a thing there would be variable tension on the chain depending on where the axle was in its travel.

[evant]

Anyone have any cost estimates????

I would definatly have to make the pilgramage to SSWC if I got one:devil: :devil: :devil: :monkey: :monkey:

[Wade]

Great idea and OK look but I'm sorry single-speeds BLOW:devil:

[VTinCT]

Ummm, I have to be that guy...if you want a single speed, DONT SHIFT!!! Jeesh!:rolleyes:

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by Wade
Great idea and OK look but I'm sorry single-speeds BLOW:devil:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but what are you basing the "blowing" aspect on? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[monkeywrench]

Originally posted by VTinCT
Ummm, I have to be that guy...if you want a single speed, DONT SHIFT!!! Jeesh!:rolleyes:

Just not shifting isn't the same as having a dedicated singlespeed. If you haven't ridden one for an extended period of time, then you just won't get it and I won't even try to explain it. Singlespeeding definitely isn't for everyone.

[the BIG cheese]

the "rainbow warrior"

yuchy color but i like the bike

[gravity]

Originally posted by Damn True


Problem: If you have a pivot at the dropout then you have an axlepath that causes the distace between the front and rear chainrings to change. Wouldn't you need a bit of extra chain and a "singleator" type device to maintain proper tension against the slack?
I would think that w/o such a thing there would be variable tension on the chain depending on where the axle was in its travel.

problem: you misread what Punkassean wrote :). he said the pivot was ABOVE the dropout, therefore it does not interfere with the axle path. ie the axle is on the chainstays, not the seatstays.

the idea of this is quite good, and should work well. considering that the distance between the axle and BB is constant, the chain will stay at a constant length.
it will bob, but then Horsts do, singlepivots do, and nearly all the other designs do too.

i think it's just a gimmicky thing myself.

[ohio]

Originally posted by punkassean


Gravity is correct, you however are almost right. It is both a 4 bar link and sort of a single pivot. The best 4-bar linkage (Horst link) it is not, but since it uses four bars, it is technically a 4-bar linkage.

Sean

Actually, shootr was correct. It is not a 4-bar in any way but appearance. A 4-bar must have the rear axle connected to the member that is NOT directly connected to the main "triangle" other wise, as shootr said, it is simply a linkage actuated single pivot. It is in the same category as an RM7, Foes Fly, Turner DHR and Ventanas... The thrust link just happens to be further back and longer than on the RM and the Foes.

If you want examples of non-FSR 4-bars, look at the new Rocky Mountain XC bike, Canfield Bros, Karpiel, Santa Cruz Blur and V10, and the Iron Horse Hollowpoint DW.

[dirtjumper430]

kona has made a fully that you can make into a single speed, its the kona cowan ds. the pivot is around the bb so that doesn't tighten the chain when you bob.

[MrPlow]

kona has made a fully that you can make into a single speed, its the kona cowan ds. the pivot is around the bb so that doesn't tighten the chain when you bob.

And apparently you can use it to dig (your own) graves as well:bonk:

[stinkyboy]

What?

[BIRDMAN111]

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1146459/

that looks like it

[loco-gringo]

Has anyone besides stinky been dumb enough to buy one of these? :D

[stinkyboy]

It's an exclusive club (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=258190) of three.

:bonk:

[BIRDMAN111]

there was a guy in new world dissorder 7 who had one.

[Rip]

kona has made a fully that you can make into a single speed, its the kona cowan ds. the pivot is around the bb so that doesn't tighten the chain when you bob.

Uh, hate to break it to you, but the Cowan DS is Kona's second SS capable FS bike.