View Full Version : New Dura Ace looking production ready...
James
05-19-2008, 10:40 AM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/giro08/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/features/giro_ditalia208
Hot, I like the finish on the levers...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/giro_ditalia208/IMG_5184.jpg
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/giro_ditalia208/IMG_5185.jpg
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/giro_ditalia208/IMG_5186.jpg
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/giro_ditalia208/IMG_5187.jpg
I'm not sure I would class that as production ready, but nice none the less
James
05-19-2008, 03:20 PM
Well, it's pretty flippin' close. And from what I've seen, the derailleurs, etc, have the Shimano part #s on them, like production parts...
MtnbikeMike
05-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Hopefully they give the RD a shiny finish to make it look less Tiagra-esque.
Oops, almost forgot. Shimano? Carbon? :panic: ;)
Well, it's pretty flippin' close. And from what I've seen, the derailleurs, etc, have the Shimano part #s on them, like production parts...
my bad, it looks like the levers still have hand work done to them
James
05-19-2008, 04:59 PM
my bad, it looks like the levers still have hand work done to them
Oh, yeah, the levers, especially the inner shift one, don't look done. Probably still tweaking some shapes.
robdamanii
05-19-2008, 05:55 PM
And not compatible with previous gruppos, either.
James
05-19-2008, 06:07 PM
And not compatible with previous gruppos, either.
I remember when the 8spd group (I think) had it's own leverage ratio, so the shifters only worked with the right derailleurs, so it's not without precedent.
robdamanii
05-19-2008, 06:16 PM
I remember when the 8spd group (I think) had it's own leverage ratio, so the shifters only worked with the right derailleurs, so it's not without precedent.
Yeah, but unless it's going to be a shifting revelation, it's just another way to make money.
James
05-19-2008, 06:39 PM
Yeah, but unless it's going to be a shifting revelation, it's just another way to make money.
I agree up to a certain point, but if they (and I don't know either way) have tweaked/changed/upgraded/perfected some aspect of the group, I can understand why. They've certainly dropped a ton of weight.
They're not the only ones going the incompatible way either.
Is it 10-speed? or more? Doesn't Shimano own the patent on a 14 cog cassette?? I thought I read that somewhere.
BurlyShirley
05-20-2008, 09:02 AM
Yeah, but unless it's going to be a shifting revelation, it's just another way to make money.
Well if you could guarantee yourself a huge profit every few years by exploiting the wallets of elitist roadies, who always seem to need (or at least be willing to waste the money on) the latest/greatest junk coming out so they look cool in front of their friends, why wouldn't you? It's not like there aren't plenty of other options out there of old stuff for people who just want to go riding.
Secret Squirrel
05-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Is it 10-speed? or more? Doesn't Shimano own the patent on a 14 cog cassette?? I thought I read that somewhere.
Oh goody...build a better mousetrap for noob cross-chaining goodness...
On a side note: I just put a new chain on after 3,000ish miles...(should've done it sooner...I know.) and the cassette and front rings aren't too bad. I seem to have unconciously been very aware of not crossing it up too badly...otherwise it would've been a bit more expensive...
Oh goody...build a better mousetrap for noob cross-chaining goodness...
Good point, on my road bike I can't run middle ring to smallest cog because the ramps try to upshift the chain
James
05-20-2008, 09:06 PM
Good point, on my road bike I can't run middle ring to smallest cog because the ramps try to upshift the chain
I'm king of the cross-chain.
But with the compact it's not too bad, guess my chainstays are exactly the right length...
I'm king of the cross-chain.
But with the compact it's not too bad, guess my chainstays are exactly the right length...
Its the compact crank, not the frame......I have no problem on my cross bike, only the roadie (std. on the roadie)
Silver
05-21-2008, 11:09 PM
What kind of pussy uses the small ring anyways?
What kind of pussy uses the small ring anyways?
You never use your middle chainring? Impressive, or you live someplace flat :p
loco-gringo
05-22-2008, 10:14 AM
You never use your middle chainring? Impressive, or you live someplace flat :p
I've got hills and I locked mine out.
Not really.
robdamanii
05-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Well if you could guarantee yourself a huge profit every few years by exploiting the wallets of elitist roadies, who always seem to need (or at least be willing to waste the money on) the latest/greatest junk coming out so they look cool in front of their friends, why wouldn't you? It's not like there aren't plenty of other options out there of old stuff for people who just want to go riding.
Ain't that the truth. Not that I fault them for doing it, but it's so poorly disguised as a way to sell more parts for something that intrinsically lasts a long ass time.
Speaking of proprietary, I read somewhere that Campy is now going to go to 11 speed for the new Record. Joy of joys.
MtnbikeMike
05-23-2008, 01:56 AM
You never use your middle chainring? Impressive, or you live someplace flat :p
Silver's never sarcastic, ever. ;)
Secret Squirrel
05-23-2008, 10:16 AM
Ain't that the truth. Not that I fault them for doing it, but it's so poorly disguised as a way to sell more parts for something that intrinsically lasts a long ass time.
Speaking of proprietary, I read somewhere that Campy is now going to go to 11 speed for the new Record. Joy of joys.
On the bright side, I'll never be able to afford Record...so that solves that dilemma...
Evil4bc
05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Is it just me or does this DER look like a older pre-production XT junk???
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tech/features/giro_ditalia208/IMG_5187.jpg
Seperated at birth , hmmm possibly
http://www.singletrackworld.com/mod/submit/images/1035-5.jpg
Toshi
05-23-2008, 01:40 PM
uh, it's just you. they're both derailleurs, and they both have cages, sure.
Evil4bc
05-23-2008, 01:59 PM
uh, it's just you. they're both derailleurs, and they both have cages, sure.
I was refering to the similarties of center section and the end knuckles of the new Dura Ace , compaired to the older XT
Estetically the new DA kit doest do it for me , it just looks like recycled MTB designs from the late 90's with some carbon thrown in to help save weight .:huh:
MtnbikeMike
05-23-2008, 03:05 PM
I was refering to the similarties of center section and the end knuckles of the new Dura Ace , compaired to the older XT
Estetically the new DA kit doest do it for me , it just looks like recycled MTB designs from the late 90's with some carbon thrown in to help save weight .:huh:
Key word there.
James
05-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Key word there.
Ding ding!
MtnbikeMike
06-02-2008, 01:37 AM
Ohh snap!!
http://www.velonews.com/files/images/DURA_ACE_GROUP.jpg
http://www.velonews.com/article/76923
...and for those who were losing sleep/thought they had uncovered Shimano's conspiracy to sell more derailleurs: The shift stroke for the rear derailleur has been reduced by 20 percent for quicker shifts, but a 7800 rear derailleur will work with the new group and vice versa.
This stuff is looking sweet. Hollow chainring? That just blows my mind.
http://www.velonews.com/files/images/DURA_ACE_GROUP.jpg
:drool:
Ohh snap!!
http://www.velonews.com/files/images/DURA_ACE_GROUP.jpg
http://www.velonews.com/article/76923
...and for those who were losing sleep/thought they had uncovered Shimano's conspiracy to sell more derailleurs:
This stuff is looking sweet. Hollow chainring? That just blows my mind.
Though cyclingnews' article says that they aren't compatible.
While the new cable pull ratios may mean better performance for this newest generation of Dura-Ace componentry, it also unfortunately means that 7900 shifters and derailleurs will not be compatible with earlier versions.
A little birdy told me that the cost increase maybe as much as 25% over the 7800. I guess a combo of exchange rates and catching up with SRAM and Campy.
MtnbikeMike
06-02-2008, 01:27 PM
I birdy also told me that a birdy told him that a 17% increase across the board is coming... Get your Shimano chet now.
James
06-02-2008, 01:29 PM
A little birdy told me that the cost increase maybe as much as 25% over the 7800. I guess a combo of exchange rates and catching up with SRAM and Campy.
It's not just exchange rates (Shimano and SRAM have it a bit easier than Campy, who sells in Euros), but the cost of raw materials is going up.
Everything is going to cost more soon, from the bottom up.
MtnbikeMike
06-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Now the question is is there going to be a 7900 series line of wheels?
I wonder if this hefty of a price increase is going to mean more Ultegra level bikes along with more house brand brakes and cranks.
DirtyMike
06-02-2008, 06:04 PM
All I know is a little Birdy told me, the new DA is going to be Rapid rise, to make it compatible with the electronic systems!!!!!
All I know is a little Birdy told me, the new DA is going to be Rapid rise, to make it compatible with the electronic systems!!!!!
I think that your little birdie might be on crack.
Kanter
06-02-2008, 06:30 PM
With the price of gas, everything is going up. :)
MtnbikeMike
06-02-2008, 11:11 PM
I think that your little birdie might be on crack.
:stupid:
The RD in the gruppo shows otherwise. It wouldn't be sitting like that if it was low-normal.
-dustin
06-02-2008, 11:22 PM
The compact D/A crank will sell like crazy.
Not at 700 bucks it won't.
The cranks are 700 (no bottom bracket).
But the most outrageous part are the shifters. 700 for the pair. That's twice the price of record.
James
06-13-2008, 04:52 PM
Not at 700 bucks it won't.
The cranks are 700 (no bottom bracket).
But the most outrageous part are the shifters. 700 for the pair. That's twice the price of record.
I bet that's not final pricing yet, though I don't know. I think Competitive prices it a bit high, then adjusts it down as needed, rather than the other way around...
I bet that's not final pricing yet, though I don't know. I think Competitive prices it a bit high, then adjusts it down as needed, rather than the other way around...
Its the prices that Shimano release and that some websites (colorado cyclist) are already showing.
Even the brakes are showing at $150 more than the record skeletons....
I honestly believe that the pricing is more a function of catching up with the Jones then it is exchange rates and material costs. There main retail customers probably have a "its more so it must be better" mentality. All of a sudden they were the cheapest top end group..... Just looking at the list the only place I see that they might not be the highest priced is the cassette and that's because of the record ti.
James
06-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Its the prices that Shimano release and that some websites (colorado cyclist) are already showing.
Even the brakes are showing at $150 more than the record skeletons....
I honestly believe that the pricing is more a function of catching up with the Jones then it is exchange rates and material costs. There main retail customers probably have a "its more so it must be better" mentality. All of a sudden they were the cheapest top end group..... Just looking at the list the only place I see that they might not be the highest priced is the cassette and that's because of the record ti.
I don't think it's really sunk in yet how much prices are changing for next year. Most people haven't announced '09 pricing yet, because they're still doped up from the Valium they had to take when they first figured them out.
So just wait, and I think you'll see that things are going to fall more in line with this pricing. Bikes, rubber, components, etc. Record Skeleton brakes included.
The lucky bastards at Velonews got to ride the new group:
http://www.velonews.com/article/78933/dura-ace-on-test
As the bike industry continues its headlong charge for stiffer-lighter-faster hardware, Shimano is keeping up its end of the deal with the upcoming Dura-Ace road group. VeloNews got a chance to ride the 10-speed group. Here are some brief first opinions.
Although Shimano revamped the entire group, the shifters received the biggest overhaul, and feature new ergonomics and altered function. The shift cables are routed under the tape (a first for Shimano) along with the brake cables. The slimmer hoods fit more easily in the hand, and the thinner (now carbon) levers allow for more finger placement options in and out of the saddle. The carbon levers flare out sideways (can you say SRAM?), but also retain Shimano’s curve forward at the bottom of the lever.
Although the hoods are narrower, they retain most of the height of Shimano’s 7800 trademark knobs. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on your personal preference; I’ve always liked them. You can rest your hands loosely on the hoods and never worry about a big bump knocking your hands forward and off the bars. Also, they’re still easy to hold onto when ‘laying down’ over the handlebars. Again, just personal preference.
For shifting performance, Shimano claims its has reduced throw by 20 percent on rear shifts. I couldn’t tell a difference from current Dura-Ace.
I could tell a big difference in shifting on the front end, however. The front derailleur is a beefy, big-leverage affair that looks and works differently than the current piece. Unlike the current model, which has two settings for both the small and big ring, the new model has one for each. Although some problems were anticipated here (based largely on design issues with similar SRAM systems), the front derailleur works very well; there is no need for extra detents on either ring. I rode both ends of the cassette on both rings without chain rub on the derailleur.
The new cranks feature a hollow big chainring, which is supposedly much stiffer than the current option. Unless there are huge variances, determining stiffness on a ride is pretty tough. Granted, it felt plenty stiff, but then again it was tested on the 2009 Specialized Roubaix SL2, which is a high-performance frame.
A few other components are hard to immediately size up as noticeably different; the brake calipers, chain, bottom bracket, rear derailleur and cassette all work just fine.
Sensations aside, the new group does look tough. Wired products editor Mark McClusky commented that the group has taken aesthetic cues from its off-road XTR sibling. I agree; the sharp edges and two-tone accented angles are a departure from smooth-rounded, single-tone Dura-Ace groups of the past.
Two more initial impressions on the Dura-Ace shifters: there are surprisingly large openings into the internals (which could allow grit easy access), and the lever reach is pretty long. Granted, the latter often has more to do with handlebar geometry (I rode a Specialized S-Works bar). Nonetheless, coming down a fast, rattling descent, the brakes felt just a little further out than was comfortable. The good news: for 2009, the Dura-Ace levers are reach-adjustable, meaning you can move them closer to the handlebar. This is touted as a feature for people for small hands; however, I’m 6’1” and would probably take advantage of this feature, too.
All in all, Shimano has pushed the performance envelope just a bit further with the new Dura-Ace group, which will be available in October.
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