gun noob

[antm]

I've been thinking about getting a gun for a while. What do you monkey's recommend? First some data, this will be my first gun owned. I have had experience shooting guns when I was a kid (father and uncle would take me to the range). I am looking for something along the lines of 9mm, maybe? And most importantly, I have kids in the house (not that it really matters I guess). So fire away. :biggrin:

[AngryMetalsmith]

Point the end where the bullets come out away from you.

I hope that was helpful.

[caputo1989]

Look into the taurus guns. They have more external safty features and they now have a polomer frame gun. 9mm is a great learning platform but lacks in stoping power compared to a .45acp if you are looking at a gun for home defence. If you are looking for a camping/backpackin security gun look into the big bore revolvers .357mag and up.

[antm]

Point the end where the bullets come out away from you.

I hope that was helpful.

whew! Glad you let me know. I was wondering what that hole was for. Not that much of a noob. :biggrin:

[antm]

Look into the taurus guns. They have more external safty features and they now have a polomer frame gun. 9mm is a great learning platform but lacks in stoping power compared to a .45acp if you are looking at a gun for home defence. If you are looking for a camping/backpackin security gun look into the big bore revolvers .357mag and up.

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have specified 9mm. Other options will be considered. I want something small. I was thinking of a Beretta perhaps?

[caputo1989]

Did i mention lifetime warranty?
http://www.taurususa.com/products/gunselector-results.cfm?series=MP1
.380-.45acp

[antm]

caputo,

Now that's what I'm talking about! Those look good. Thanks for the link.


Now keep the ideas comin' :biggrin:

[H8R]

And most importantly, I have kids in the house (not that it really matters I guess).

It matters most. Take a gun safety class, (your spouse should too) and lock it up tight.

[giantrider89]

what are you wanting the gun for?

if you want a gun for protection or to carry around, then sure, go for a hand gun....

if you are looking for a gun just to have fun with, and simply shoot stuff just to shoot stuff (like i do :biggrin:), then dont get a handgun.....handguns are just not safe enough to have lying around (or locked up) if you dont really think you need one.....

[JohnE]

Ruger Mini 30 or 10/22 just for plinking...

[drumbum540]

I really recommend the safety class, how old are your kids? it might even be a good idea to take your kids. I really dont have much knowledge on handguns but rifles are a diferent story. all I know is that smith and wesson make nice (looking) handguns.

[johnbryanpeters]

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have specified 9mm. Other options will be considered. I want something small. I was thinking of a Beretta perhaps?

The manufacturer does not define the frame size. Compact frame models are easier to conceal at the expense of accuracy. How the gun fits your hand is important. Some models have interchangable grips which allow you to adjust fit.

[antm]

the wifey and i will definitely be taking a safety/training class. I think I'll be visiting a gun shop this week to take a look around and see what I can get. Thanks for all the tips guys. BTW, the only think that's been holding me back is my kids. But, I figure if I keep it locked up and hidden I should be okay. Those with kids, have any other suggestions?

[JohnE]

Trigger locks, tall shelves. Also, dont keep it a mystery to them. I told my boys very early that guns are tools that I use for my job, not toys. When the time is right, they will learn about them, but until then, they dont touch them unless I am there.

[MikeD]

Look into the taurus guns. They have more external safty features and they now have a polomer frame gun. 9mm is a great learning platform but lacks in stoping power compared to a .45acp if you are looking at a gun for home defence. If you are looking for a camping/backpackin security gun look into the big bore revolvers .357mag and up.

[I'm going to have to save this post because I think it's gonna come up a lot in this forum. This is the second or third time I've had to write something like this.]

Bull****.

This is idle gun-shop and Internet talk.

I don't want to bust in on every gun thread on this board, but I can't sit by and let dumbass statements like this go by when passed to newbies.
---
Summary: The only thing that stops someone with a pistol is shooting him in a critical area which causes central nervous trauma. 9mm and up have adequate penetration to do this on a human. So the caliber discussion is moot. Shoot and shoot again until target is down, placing your shots as well as possible under the circumstances. A .45 will NOT physically knock anyone down. Nor will a rifle or even a 12ga slug. It's the effect on the central nervous system that causes it, not kinetic energy.

Pistols make tiny holes. Get used to it and be prepared to shoot a lot if necessary.

This is also why no one should have a handgun as a "home defense" tool unless he or she is extensively trained in its use.

Antm, get a shotgun and mount a flashlight on it. Long guns are more accurate under stress due to the method of aiming (not necessarily the shotgun 'spread'). It's easy to miss with a pistol.
----

Long story: If you're talking about defending against wild animals with a handgun, I think caliber is part of the consideration due to the penetration of heavy muscle and bone required. For humans, there's no real difference in "stopping power" aside from some numbers and skewed anecdotal evidence.

Please, no one believe anyone online or in some gun shop that claims a .45 will 'knock someone down' or repeats a false story about how .45 was developed to stop charging Moro rebels in the Phillipines. Any practical difference, if any even exists, is further mitigated by modern ammo.

It's a pistol and it makes a small hole, whether 1mm bigger or smaller. Putting holes, preferably very many, where it matters---in a critical organ, causing nervous trauma---is what stops someone with a pistol. 9mm will penetrate clothing and the human body as much as any other caliber. I wouldn't go below 9mm, however, and I like 9mm +p.

Anyhow, back to real advice--if you really want a gun for home defense, buy a shotgun. Unless you've put in massive amounts of time and training, a handgun is really easy to miss with, especially under stress (due to the nature of aiming a long gun, more than the spread of the gun) and never as likely to put a threat down.

If you're going to buy a semiauto handgun, buy a Glock or SIG (with a tactical light if it's for home defense). Personally, I can't recommend a Taurus or CZ or Keltec or anything else you're likely to hear about. Warranties mean **** when you're talking about a malfunction that could cost you your life.

I am told the S&W M&P series is reliable, but have no real experience with them. I do not recommend models with manual external safeties as a matter of course. I think they are a liability under stress for most people and can lead to bad habits and fudging the basic rules of firearms safety. Trained operators working in teams using single-action pistols as secondary weapons are another story, but those are not for most of us. And the 1911 .45 is an old gun, much more complex with many more things to go wrong. Like a classic car--lots of fun, very historical, possibly a great performer when working, but nowhere near as reliable as a modern product. There are a cult of deluded people who think it's a holy relic. Don't listen to them. Just get a Glock and learn to fight while they babble about the thingamajiggers on their $3k jam-a-thon man-disintigrator-cannon.

I don't recommend revolvers in general, except snubs carried as backup guns. You'll hear some people talk about how reliable they are and how you can reload them as fast as an automatic or whatever. It's BS. A modern quality semiauto is just as or even more reliable and is a quantifiably better fighting tool. Just try mounting a light on your home defense revolver--you can't, unless you get a $1200 custom revolver with an 8-shot cylinder and a picatinny rail. But for $500-whatever, you can have a Glock with twice the firepower and a light. If I was going to load a gun and leave it unfired in a nightstand for 5 years, then use it to defend my life, I'd consider a revolver. But I wouldn't recommend gun ownership to anyone who would go 5 years without training with or maintaining his gun.

Buy a 9mm and lots and lots of cheap ammo for practice and get good with it. Take a real fighting class once you've done the basics of handling and marksmanship--shooting thousands of rounds under physical and mental stress, from all sorts of positions incorporating movement and use of cover.

However, a shotgun, again, is cheaper and more effective. Remington 870 pump is a good one (awkward safety button aside; we train around it)--I have friends who love their Benelli semiautos.

Finally, antm, if you want a gun, that's fine and I think it's an option everyone should have. But if you want a gun to defend your home, think about how you're going to keep it "hidden and locked" yet still have it available for defending your house if it's needed. If you're committing to an option for home defense, it's a lot more than committing to just having an unloaded and locked gun in the closet. Check out different safe options.

And realize home defense begins long before you even consider firearms. Do you have a plan? Do you have locks, lights, alarms, and other deterrents to make you a less desirable target? A dog, perhaps? Do you consider the far more likely scenario of fire/medical situation/disaster before you plan for a home invasion?

[$tinkle]

^^^ sticky?

[Lowlight7]

I had something to say, but MikeD pretty much covered it.

It's not home defense, it's home protection. It's family protection. Reinforced entry points. Safe havens. Rally points. Alarms or warning systems are a possibility. Medical training (for traumatic injury, not just cuts and scrapes like in Red Cross first aid). Escape routes and methods. Smoke detectors. Carbon monoxide detectors. Hard copper wired phones. Flashlights. Candles.

I could go on.

Before you buy anything, take an NRA Basic class. Learn to safely handle the weapon before you buy it. The instructors will bring a variety of guns to the class so you can try several out before you decide on one.

[antm]

:clapping: all good points, thanks. Before I purchase anything, my wife and I are signing up for a weapons course just to learn the basics. Then we'll think it through and make a decision.

[drumbum540]

make sure you dont sign up for hunter education instead. thats what I did.

[antm]

hahaha, I'll make sure not to do that. :biggrin: