Handguns

[MTBstud12]

So not too sure this is the place for handgun opinions, but I've seen a few gun posts so I thought I'd do the same..

I'm looking into gettin a handgun this summer for the sake of personal protection and practicing with a weapon before Im required to do so in police academy.. Anyways... Any of you monkey's out there have any recommendations as to what to get.. I was eyeing the Glock .40.

[BMXman]

The search function is your friend...

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199774&highlight=gun

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199571&highlight=gun

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199567&highlight=gun

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199595&highlight=gun

[launburga]

Springfield armory XD40 sub-compact. Best I've seen for CC.
www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=64

[SPINTECK]

Plenty of handgun opinions here. You'll see some of my fellow liberals are very afraid of guns and think good people shouldn't have them, because if good people can't get them, bad people won't get them either.

I actually bought a colt 40 years ago. Don't even think they make them anymore. Actually, I'm not really a gun person, but I do advocate the right. You need to ask someone who you trust that will take the time to visit a gun shop w/you. Once you pick some up and handle them, one should stand out.

Don't let the gun haters limit your posting. There is a lot of knowledge here on RM. We all can't live in a utopian middle class society w/no poor, low crime and good healthcare. Some of us live outside US Metropolitan areas.

[Sideway]

Which Glock are you referring to? the ".40" is simply the caliber (40 S&W), and there are several Glocks offered for that round. The first thing I would suggest is finding out if the department(s) you want to work for have any requirements/specifications about duty guns, or if the academy does.

If you are free to choose whichever you want, the next step would be finding a shop that offers basic safety classes and rents guns. See what you shoot well with. Alternatively, you could wait until you enter the academy and see what they suggest.

About Glocks themselves; they are relatively inexpensive, reliable guns. I do not like them much, but its completely a personal preference, and many people love them.

And about the .40 S&W round; it is quite a snappy round, but might be a bit more than you need depending on where you a serving. If the department subsidizes your ammo expenses, its not much of a problem, but if you have to pay for your own rounds it might be a little expensive. That said, if you think you might have to serve in an area with a high level of violent crime, you might want a more powerful round, but else you might want something a bit smaller like 9mm. There is also a level of personal preference when it comes to picking the caliber. Renting some different models and seeing what you like is advisable here as well.

Hope that helps!

[sanjuro]

People here are very anti-gun.

[launburga]

Everyone has something to say about asking about guns. But when you run into the one in a billion chance that you're at the mall with your wife and kids and some psyco is on a rampage like we all see on the news all of the time, you may think differently. Everyone is running and screaming because no-one is carrying and then someone like me ends the retards existince, then you'll learn to thank the citizens that carry consealed because instead of the head line reading "15 killed in rampage" It'll say "unlikely hero saves untold lives". Every one is so quick to hate on something that isn't wholesome. I hope no-one ever has to experience something like that but more and more often that's what's happening.

[BMXman]

Everyone has something to say about asking about guns. But when you run into the one in a billion chance that you're at the mall with your wife and kids and some psyco is on a rampage like we all see on the news all of the time, you may think differently. Everyone is running and screaming because no-one is carrying and then someone like me ends the retards existince, then you'll learn to thank the citizens that carry consealed because instead of the head line reading "15 killed in rampage" It'll say "unlikely hero saves untold lives". Every one is so quick to hate on something that isn't wholesome. I hope no-one ever has to experience something like that but more and more often that's what's happening.

Yeah people get saved all the time by civilians with guns:crazy:...now I'm not anti gun but if that's your only reason then you need to re-think it...D

[Sideway]

Yeah people get saved all the time by civilians with guns:crazy:...now I'm not anti gun but if that's your only reason then you need to re-think it...D

more than once a day here in the US, and that doesn't count cops =D

[BMXman]

more than once a day here in the US, and that doesn't count cops =D


ok...first you say "one in a billion"...then it's "more than once a day"...you sucks at the math :monkeydance:

[Sideway]

ok...first you say "one in a billion"...then it's "more than once a day"...you sucks at the math :monkeydance:
might be the case if I was also posting as launburga

[BMXman]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=126 :D

[BMXman]

might be the case if I was also posting as launburga


ah...I stand corrected :D :cheers:

[launburga]

ah...I stand corrected :D :cheers:

What's that saying- I'd rather be safe that DEAD? That's my point-more people COULD be saved by civilians with guns.
I did'nt think it was once a day but it reiterates my point even more.

[Ciaran]

Umm.. he asked for opinions on what hand gun to get, not for a political discussion on gun control.

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

I can get tighter groups with a 9mm vs. a bigger caliber(.45)
Go shoot some guns at the range,most ranges have rental guns.

[llkoolkeg]

I agree with the advice to shoot rental guns at the range before deciding to buy. Personally, I love Glocks and own both a 9mm and 10mm full sized...but I have big hands. Once you find a quality weapon that fits nicely and that you can point "instinctively", controlling and grouping well, you can always fine-tune the grips with aftermarkets like Hogue or Pachmeyer. If it were me, though, I'd probably go with a .45ACP. You don't have to put 230gr +P through it if you are that worried about recoil...just use lighter, less pressurized rounds.

[JohnE]

If you are headed for an academy, get a gun similiar to, if not the same as, the gun you could/would carry on the street. Makes sense, no?

[DirtyMike]

Glock Model 22. .40 caliber pistol with decent accuracy, accepted for use with most all law enforcement agencies. ANd when talking to a couple law enforcement friends, its pretty Deputy proof

[stinkyboy]

Take it to FAMC noob!

[DirtyDog]

Take it to the Mac & Cheese forum, noobs.

[stinkyboy]

Ftw!!

[DirtyDog]

Ftw!!

Damn quickdraw

[G-spot]

If you are going to a police academy then I would chechk out Glock .40, Sig .40 and springfield XD .40. Most law enforcment use .40 cal so you need to get use to it ,but for CC a 9MM would be fine ( I use a H & K USP Compact.45 it is a bit $$$$)

[manimal]

You can't go wrong with the Glock for dependability and accuracy but if you're looking for sex appeal go with a 1911 model.
you need to focus more on a gun that fits comfortably rather than "shoots tight groups" because any meat-head can put rounds close together on a piece of paper but in a real life/death shooting, you want something that you can get out of the holster, point and shoot faster than the bad guy. shooting a tight group on a live subject is actually not the best thing or realistic....if your goal is to "stop the threat", which works better: 2-3 holes in the same place or 2-3 holes spread out over more vital areas?

are there any departments out there that DON'T issue sidearms these days? i've never heard of a department that doesn't provide the weapon AND ammunition. heck, we get 100rds of .40 and 50 of .223/shotgun every payday for practice at the range.

[sinkemlow]

I currently own, and have carried Glocks, HKs, Walthers, and Smiths. But it seems every time I walk out the front door lately I have a Taurus Model 85 Ultralite stainless in my front pocket loaded with .38 +P HPs. Used to be mainly a summer gun, but it's so comfortable to carry, I use it year round. Beyond that, the Glock 19 was second in line. With today's modern ammo(do some research), I don't feel undergunned with 9mm and .38s. Not a huge fan of the .40, though I've owned quite a few over the years. Also, if you're looking for comfort, check out Kel-Tec.

[manimal]

yes, Kel-tec is doing much better now since they've outsourced some of their production to Ruger. their stuff looks much cleaner now :thumb:

[profro]

Yeah people get saved all the time by civilians with guns:crazy:...now I'm not anti gun but if that's your only reason then you need to re-think it...D

just a quick goggle search found this

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200311%5 CNAT20031118a.html

[MikeD]

Don't buy anything. Let your department issue you a gun, ammo, and train you on it.

You'll learn from them the way they want you to learn it on the gear they require to use. Having trained people in the military and having been trained by several civilian agencies, I can attest to the fact that going in as a blank slate will make your learning experience better. From there, if you want/need another gun for another purpose (off-duty carry, whatever), get it.

That said, the Glock 19 is the best value ever in a handgun; the best quality for the lowest price. Stick with 9mm so you can get more ammo to train with, and believe no Internet stud who claims his .45 or .40 will knock someone down or cause some huge deathy wound or whatever. They're pistols. Shot placement and repetition are what count.

[JohnE]

Huge deathy wounds...awesome!

[DirtMcGirk]

I've got the 4 versions of the Glock in .40.

The 27 and the 23 tend to beat you up more then the 22 or the 35. However, for CC the 23 by a lot of real hard core gun folk I run into is considered the end all be all of CC guns.

I put the Haarts system in all of my guns, which unfortunately they are no longer making due to the risks of welding around mercury. However, for fast, triple tap, on target tight groups, a good SS or Tungsten rod with a different weight spring is almost an essential.

Check with the department, that's a good place to start. All of my buddies in Parole carry the 23's, all of my friends at the PD carry the 22.

And don't forget your back up weapon. Snubbie .357 is the way to go, hammerless, with only a ramp sight. Never know when it might save your ass.

[ultraNoob]

Best advice I can give.

Ask what makes/models/calibers your future department authorizes as a service weapon. Then test the compact version. I'm sure either your instructor or one of the officers in that department is willing to share their recommendations or even let you test fire it.

Most modern handguns will do what you want them to do, but it's just like buying a bike.... you get what you pay for.

[manimal]

believe no Internet stud who claims his .45 or .40 will knock someone down or cause some huge deathy wound or whatever. They're pistols. Shot placement and repetition are what count.

:clap: very well said mike. there is a huge overhead sign at the HK cqb training facility that says, "Bullets Don't Work"

it's all about, "did i hit it...did it work."

[dante]

are there any departments out there that DON'T issue sidearms these days? i've never heard of a department that doesn't provide the weapon AND ammunition. heck, we get 100rds of .40 and 50 of .223/shotgun every payday for practice at the range.

A friend of mine joined the NYC police dept (guarding reservoirs in upstate NY, ha!), and although he was issued a sidearm, he was encouraged to purchase his own backup, so it seems that this could come in useful even after he joins the academy. I'd definitely go with whatever caliber gun he'll be issued, as 100 free rounds/day for target practice sounds a heck of a lot better than paying for it yourself. :monkeydance:

[evomo]

I have shot with the Walther P99 and the springfield XD- both are nice and solid, but its quite interesting how different each feels and aims. I tend to go with the XD.

You really need to go to a range and try different guns... and not the ****ty $10 rentals - they suck.

[ultraNoob]

One of my local ranges rents Sig 226's and glock 19's for $8 so $$ really isn't an accurate indicator of the suckage of a weapon.

[evomo]

You are correct... rental price is not any kind of indicator of the suckage. I am referring to the quality of the weapon you rent vs a weapon that you own and paid hundreds of dollars for. Most gun shops/ranges used inventory is used and abused (at least here in LA and Vegas).

If you want to go out and buy a new truck are you going to test drive new ones to find out which one you like or used ones that have been working out on a construction site for years?

Renting a used and abused piece of equipment will give you a poor indication of performance and quality.

[tacklespore]

I've got a glock 23 (40 cal) and a springfield XD (9 mm). We can skip a ride and go to the range if we can find time.

[jdcamb]

Renting a used and abused piece of equipment will give you a poor indication of performance and quality.

Maybe. But I can't afford to buy some of the guns I have been able to rent.

As far as hitting paper targets is concerned. A tight group is the only gauge I get to measure myself. For the most part its the only opportunity I get to shoot. And its wicked fun. I think it makes me a better shooter then the average Joe. I really do think I am better prepared then the average criminal/wrongdoer. Hey maybe I am wrong. Lets hope I never have to find that out....

[ultraNoob]

Maybe. But I can't afford to buy some of the guns I have been able to rent.

As far as hitting paper targets is concerned. A tight group is the only gauge I get to measure myself. For the most part its the only opportunity I get to shoot. And its wicked fun. I think it makes me a better shooter then the average Joe. I really do think I am better prepared then the average criminal/wrongdoer. Hey maybe I am wrong. Lets hope I never have to find that out....

I agree. It's a rental gun. So what does it matter if it's used or abused. All one looks for when renting a weapon is if you're comfortable shooting it and would possibly like to buy it. One usually rents those guns with the knowledge that it's either super dirty, been abused in one way or another, but most likely both. On another note, both of my sigs have shot 1000's upon 1000's of rounds over the past 10 years. They've only gotten better with age... just like me. :D

[MTBstud12]

I've got a glock 23 (40 cal) and a springfield XD (9 mm). We can skip a ride and go to the range if we can find time.

Nice dude! Im totally for that, those were my two options ive had in mind. I should be in town in a few weeks so ill give ya a shout!

[MTBstud12]

Went to the range today and rented a Springfield XD 9mm... Shot it well, had a pretty nice grouping at 7yds. Started pulling low and left at 15 yds, but still consistent. So over did well.. Only my 2nd shooting a handgun. Still interesting in shooting the Glock.

The W might go to the Springfield because of the 2 safety's. The trigger safety on the Glock doens't stand for much, and i would like to keep my limbs.

[TKCastle]

Yeah people get saved all the time by civilians with guns:crazy:...now I'm not anti gun but if that's your only reason then you need to re-think it...D

Just because you don't hear about it don't mean it doesn't happen.

Media in america is historically bias when it comes to covering stories where people defended them-self's with firearms and came away the victors.

[TKCastle]

You are correct... rental price is not any kind of indicator of the suckage. I am referring to the quality of the weapon you rent vs a weapon that you own and paid hundreds of dollars for. Most gun shops/ranges used inventory is used and abused (at least here in LA and Vegas).

If you want to go out and buy a new truck are you going to test drive new ones to find out which one you like or used ones that have been working out on a construction site for years?

Renting a used and abused piece of equipment will give you a poor indication of performance and quality.

True. Add also that most(90%) of ranges rent guns with "their" ammo they loaded in the back. Granted rolling your own is easy to do and financially smart, some ranges dont care if you have to "tap, rack and pull" once, twice or three times a mag. Then the renter is turned off to a particular weapon because of the malfunctions he/she encountered during firing.

[TKCastle]

Went to the range today and rented a Springfield XD 9mm... Shot it well, had a pretty nice grouping at 7yds. Started pulling low and left at 15 yds, but still consistent. So over did well.. Only my 2nd shooting a handgun. Still interesting in shooting the Glock.

The W might go to the Springfield because of the 2 safety's. The trigger safety on the Glock doens't stand for much, and i would like to keep my limbs.

Glock set the standards when it comes to internal safety mechanisms. If you understand how they work there is no way a Glock can have a AD if you keep your finger off the trigger. The grip safety on the springy was taken from the 1911 series of pistols and there are people that say they wont carry a 1911 for the same reasons you stated.

Autoloaders are cool and I love them just as much as anyone but don't overlook wheel guns, just as deadly and can be reloaded and shot just a butt hair slower then auto's. My 2cents.

[MikeD]

The W might go to the Springfield because of the 2 safety's. The trigger safety on the Glock doens't stand for much, and i would like to keep my limbs.

Who is teaching you to shoot?

Anyone who thinks you require a manual external safety on a handgun is teaching handguns incorrectly. Period, end of story. A Glock is just as, or more, safe as any other handgun. Use a quality holster and follow the 4 safety rules.

Learn to keep the booger hook off the bang switch.

[MikeD]

Autoloaders are cool and I love them just as much as anyone but don't overlook wheel guns, just as deadly and can be reloaded and shot just a butt hair slower then auto's. My 2cents.

I also wouldn't recommend a revolver except as a fun shooter or backup snubby, unless you're looking for a .44 or larger to pack in the wilderness.

Reloading a revolver takes several more movements, even with a speedloader, and requires you to fit little things into little holes. This can be done reasonably quickly on a range. It's not going to be done quickly or, more importantly, reliably, under combat stress.

I love shooting revolvers. But telling someone to use one as a fighting gun instead of an auto is bad advice in lieu of some other mitigating factor (none of which readily spring to mind, but they might exist...perhaps a disability preventing someone from racking the slide...)

[MTBstud12]

Who is teaching you to shoot?

Anyone who thinks you require a manual external safety on a handgun is teaching handguns incorrectly. Period, end of story. A Glock is just as, or more, safe as any other handgun. Use a quality holster and follow the 4 safety rules.

Learn to keep the booger hook off the bang switch.

Haha! thats funny.

No one is really "teaching" me yet. But the gun shop guy said in his personal opinion he'd recommend the Springfield over the Glock due to that reason. I haven't shot the Glock yet. But after shooting the springfield and thinkin about it, the grip safety is almost... pointless because i would think when you draw the weapon its more than likely engaged... But ive never drawn from a holster, so i guess my opinion isnt really relevant. I was looking at the '08 XD's... they have a third safety(a thumb safety)...i think thats overboard

[MikeD]

Grip safeties are even dumber than thumb safeties.

If you're in a real fight you may not establish that perfect grip--let's say you're fighting off someone with a knife and your hand is cut and bloodied. Or let's say you have to crossdraw with your off-hand.

Grips safety could kill you.

Get a Glock. Or a SIG (my personal pref, but not a great value). Maybe the S&W M&P.

Edit: Wait, I forgot you were headed to a police academy. Don't buy a gun--let them teach you on their gear with their standards and methods. Please. As someone who was certified to train shooters and run ranges for the military and law enforcement, please don't.

[manimal]

a glock will ONLY fire when you depress the trigger, not much safer than that. external safety's are unnecessary unless you're using the gun strictly for range practice. if you're carrying a handgun for personal protection then it better be loaded and ready to shoot because in that split second when your brain goes from la-de-da to i'm about to die, you don't really want any fine motor skills to get in the way of your body's natural reaction to flinch and push away danger....while pulling the trigger.

go play a game of close quarters paintball or airsoft and you'll see what i mean. even when you're in a perfect low ready shooting position you're body will still flinch and you will punch out at the threat if it surprises you. your mind just doesn't have time to think about taking the safety off.

[TKCastle]

I also wouldn't recommend a revolver except as a fun shooter or backup snubby, unless you're looking for a .44 or larger to pack in the wilderness.

Reloading a revolver takes several more movements, even with a speedloader, and requires you to fit little things into little holes. This can be done reasonably quickly on a range. It's not going to be done quickly or, more importantly, reliably, under combat stress.

I love shooting revolvers. But telling someone to use one as a fighting gun instead of an auto is bad advice in lieu of some other mitigating factor (none of which readily spring to mind, but they might exist...perhaps a disability preventing someone from racking the slide...)

Stuck in that new school mentality. Hows talking about speed loaders, Moon Clips Baby!

[MikeD]

Nope, stuck in reality, that's all. Nothing to do with a mentality.

I was talking about using speedloaders. Still takes quite a few movements to do--most of them fine motor skills, not gross movements. Doing it efficiently even requires shifting the weapon between your hands. It can't be done one-handed under any circumstance.

I can reload my semiauto with either hand alone and my holster if need be...and with both hands, I can do it in a split second with a minimum of movement, even at a sprint.

[MTBstud12]

a glock will ONLY fire when you depress the trigger, not much safer than that. external safety's are unnecessary unless you're using the gun strictly for range practice. if you're carrying a handgun for personal protection then it better be loaded and ready to shoot because in that split second when your brain goes from la-de-da to i'm about to die, you don't really want any fine motor skills to get in the way of your body's natural reaction to flinch and push away danger....while pulling the trigger.

go play a game of close quarters paintball or airsoft and you'll see what i mean. even when you're in a perfect low ready shooting position you're body will still flinch and you will punch out at the threat if it surprises you. your mind just doesn't have time to think about taking the safety off.


Awesome view point! Your opinion was the one I was waiting for. I know most departments carry Glocks now-a-days anyways so that's what I'm leaning towards. Just gotta save up $500 dollars... On a broke college kids wages. :happydance:

[G-spot]

I own and use a Glock on duty, own a XD and H& K, the Glocks are a .40(duty) and 9mm, the XD is a 9mm(Competition only, had a trigger job and refined along with slide work), and the H&K is a .45 and my Carry gun . I enjoy all of them and it is a personal thing, you need to fire all of your choices to see what you like.

[MTBstud12]

I own and use a Glock on duty, own a XD and H& K, the Glocks are a .40(duty) and 9mm, the XD is a 9mm(Competition only, had a trigger job and refined along with slide work), and the H&K is a .45 and my Carry gun . I enjoy all of them and it is a personal thing, you need to fire all of your choices to see what you like.

Yea, I plan to fire all of my choices first. H&K was an idea brought up by the gun shop dude, but that price tag is a little out of my league.

What do you prefer with your glocks, the .40 or the 9mm?

[johnbryanpeters]

Awesome view point! Your opinion was the one I was waiting for. I know most departments carry Glocks now-a-days anyways so that's what I'm leaning towards. Just gotta save up $500 dollars... On a broke college kids wages. :happydance:

Be realistic. You're going to need more like a grand by the time you purchase the weapon, magazines, holster(s) and other related gear.

[manimal]

Be realistic. You're going to need more like a grand by the time you purchase the weapon, magazines, holster(s) and other related gear.

don't forget about the tactical t-shirt as well ;)

[Lowlight7]

Glock has a direct purchase program for LEOs, wait until you make it out of the academy and you'll get them much cheaper...

For the sake of yourself and your FTU, learn to shoot at the academy. While most current police shooting programs aren't grounded in reality, they still train you to the standard you are expected to perform at in your qualifications. I went into the Sheriff's Academy assuming that the military taught me how shoot. My TIs quickly re-aquainted me with the front leaning rest position.

Save yourself the hassle. Unlearning everything you learned at the academy is something that every officer must go through, but you need to pass the academy first.

[demo 9]

why not a sawed off shotgun :lighten:

[G-spot]

Yea, I plan to fire all of my choices first. H&K was an idea brought up by the gun shop dude, but that price tag is a little out of my league.

What do you prefer with your glocks, the .40 or the 9mm?

I like the 9mm just because it is Cheaper to shoot.