Gun owners - Your experience with Glock and Springfield

[Arkayne]

I'll be a homeowner and daddy by the end of this year so this has me thinking about home defense. I've been considering a handgun and would like to hear what you guys use. I'm looking into the .40 flavors, most especially the Glock 23 and Springfield XD40.

I will be attending weapon training seminars as well as continue my self defense courses (Krav Maga) because I believe that owning a firearm will do no good unless you can properly use and defend against one. Especially under stress.

[Mr Tiles]

my glock model 30 is my favorite sidearm ever. I've owned Taurus, ruger, sig, colt, smith, beretta, etc and I always go back to the glock. I've had my model 30 for about 8 years and cycled at least 15-20k rounds thru it (mostly hand-loaded rounds) and it still looks new.

[TheMontashu]

I have a glock 23, I must say when I first got it I only did so cause I got a good deal. I was convinced that only 1911s were any good. After 10k or so rounds I have to say that after my target pistol and my revolver my 23 is my favorite handgun. For auto loaders I would say go either glock or high end 1911. The XDs are nice but they are essentially glock rip offs.
Nothing is going to beat the glock in terms of ease of operation, and ease of maintenance. The one and only negative I have found with the glock is that they do not like to shoot solid lead bullets, so if you are buying factory reloads make sure they are jacketed.



Also, I would get a .357 sig barrel and mags for the thing. Use the 40 for practicing because the ammo is so cheep, but use the 357 sig for home defense because that round hits ALOT harder.

[jimmydean]

I would consider moving before brining a gun into my house with my daughter there. I chose to not live in an area that requires that level of protection.

If I were to own a gun, it would be a Glock 21 because I favor the .45, but the 23 is also a good option. A friend of mine has a 23 that I like. I was trained with a .45.

[profro]

my glock model 30 is my favorite sidearm ever. I've owned Taurus, ruger, sig, colt, smith, beretta, etc and I always go back to the glock. I've had my model 30 for about 8 years and cycled at least 15-20k rounds thru it (mostly hand-loaded rounds) and it still looks new.

ditto

I have owned and shot a lot of guns and nothing shoots like my Glock Model 30.

I had the Model 27 and I was not a fan of the .40 round.

However, I say Glock all the way. Read the FBI study done when the were looking for new sidearms and it just reiterates why the Glock is superior to 95% of the hand guns available today.

[ultraNoob]

I'll be a homeowner and daddy by the end of this year so this has me thinking about home defense. I've been considering a handgun and would like to hear what you guys use. I'm looking into the .40 flavors, most especially the Glock 23 and Springfield XD40.

I will be attending weapon training seminars as well as continue my self defense courses (Krav Maga) because I believe that owning a firearm will do no good unless you can properly use and defend against one. Especially under stress.

Foo! Why didn't you tell me you were looking. Call me, we'll go to the range so you can actually test fire a couple. If you go .45 Auto, I can make you some special low recoil 95% ricochet free rounds.

[ultraNoob]

Peeps with polymer weapons, why do you prefer those? (honest question)

In the realm of 45's, I've owned 1911's, Sig 220, and the HK USP. Sig 220 all the way. The HK, albeit accurate and reliable, felt like it had a harsher recoil even with the double spring. The 1911 and Sig are always buttery smooth allowing for more controlled double tap

[TheMontashu]

Peeps with polymer weapons, why do you prefer those? (honest question)
It was cheep, I got my 23 a couple years ago through the local rep. I got the thing for like 400$. Honestly if I have money I would get a nice custom 40cal double stack 1911.

[profro]

Peeps with polymer weapons, why do you prefer those? (honest question)

For me it is the design and action of Glock, not the material.

[jimmydean]

Peeps with polymer weapons, why do you prefer those? (honest question)

My ex-wifes uncle was telling me about being issued a Glock over his S&W many years ago. He said at first he hated it because it felt cheap and more like a toy.

After a few weeks, he said it was the perfect carry weapon because it didn't weigh his belt down and you didn't notice it was there when running.

I just like the simplicity of the Glock over something else. The reliability is unquestionable and if it's good enough for Navy SEALs, it should be good enough for me.

[Mr Tiles]

For me it is the design and action of Glock, not the material.

yes A N D it's only the grip that's polymer. IMO, that's nice to keep to the weight down for cc.

ultranoob, I had the same sig. it was a super-nice gun. If I could have kept both it and my glock, I would have. I traded it in for the glock, didn't have the $$$ to keep both.

Another thing about my 30 is that I never considered a short-barrel'd cc weapon to be so much fun on the range, esp at 25 yards. I can hit bowling pins all day long with this thing at 25 yds and it's small enough to just about fit in your pocket when your done. Glock nailed it with the 30...

[ultraNoob]

My first attachment to a Teir 1 unit, they issued me a Glock 19. It shot great even after you just crawled out of some godforsaken swamp. It was easy to clean and was consistent with ball ammo. Definatley out performed the M9.

When I was given the option to pick my side arm, I went to sig 226. Never looked back. Out of the box with the first 5 rounds, I punched out a 3"group at 25yds. After 10 mags, groups went down to 2".

Guess it's a preference thing. I fired my buddies XD and was not impressed.

[Arkayne]

Good info ya'll. I'm going to check out a range soon and get a feel for both. The reviews say they are both reliable weapons so I suppose it's going to come down to which feels less like a gun and more of an extension of my arm.

What's your choice of ammo for the range and for your @home clip/s?

[Mr Tiles]

been using federal hydra-shoks for years since I don't load anymore.

[ultraNoob]

home defense (close range) = compressed powdered lead round nose or prefrag hollow points
target = semi wadcutters (nice clean holes)
concealed carry / back country = hydrashoks

[davep]

Seems like I am the odd one..I CANNOT STAND the Glock trigger. It reminds me of a Jack-in-the box. If you just keep fiddling with it for long enough, it will finally go off, but you never know when.

For a never clean, drop it in the dirt, run it over with a car and it will always work, the Glock is a great survival tool. But the trigger feel makes it a no-go for me.

I am a 1911 fan (I think the .45 is a great choice for this use as well) but they can be a little more 'needy' (maint, cleaning, etc) and also have a tendancy to suck you into UGI...

IF you have the opportunity DEFINATELY try some stuff out and get what is most comfortable for YOU.

Then lock it up!!!!!!!!!!

[profro]

Have hydra-shoks improved in the last few years?

I did some very unofficial testing of my own years back and the Speer Gold dot was the most consistent hollowpoint in terms of average expansion. Most of the time, the hydra-shok clogged with clothing and never expanded. However, remember the Black Talon? I had some and those things were NASTY!

Also in reference to the Sig. It is an incredible gun. It feels great in the hand and is piece of art, but the distance between the top of my hand and the centerline of the barrel caused the gun to "kick" more compared to an equivalent Glock or H & K.

[ultraNoob]

The maint issue was the only reason I didn't keep my springfield. Well that and I got some serious coin for it.

[Mr Tiles]

Have hydra-shoks improved in the last few years?....However, remember the Black Talon?.

hahaha, black talons, blast from the past. I tried every factory defense round I could get my hands on in .45 ACP about a decade or so ago. Among the group was star fire, black talons, hydra-shoks, and a bunch of others that I can't remember. I like the hydra-shoks the best as far as accuracy, recoil and damage incurred to the target (whatever it may have been at the time). Here's an excerpt from a guy that's tested tons of ammo:
"- Federal 230 grain Hydrashok JHP (P45HS1): a great load, and my #1 choice. It gives the most stopping power in this potent caliber."

Here's the site: http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

[CBJ]

What kind of ghetto do you live in where you need a gun for protection? If you live anywhere in New York City and you need a gun for protection you could only afford a bike like this:

http://www.focushacks.com/uploads/next-power.jpg

[1453]

no one ever "needs" a firearm until they get put on hold with 911.

And from our experience before, my girl friend called about some douche beating the crap out of a girl on the street and was on hold for at least 15 minutes.

:disgust1:

What kind of ghetto do you live in where you need a gun for protection? If you live anywhere in New York City and you need a gun for protection you could only afford a bike like this:



For home defense, go with a Glock. Less things to go wrong. Just don't use lead bullets with it.

[CBJ]

no one ever "needs" a firearm until they get put on hold with 911.

And from our experience before, my girl friend called about some douche beating the crap out of a girl on the street and was on hold for at least 15 minutes.
.

I understand and that sucks. Around here you call and there are 4 cop cars before you hang up.

[MMike]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3693322769853963549&q=bad+idea+jeans+snl&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

"Now that we have kids, I feel better having a gun in the house"

[jdcamb]

I have a glock 23

I like the way it fits my hand.

[MMike]

I like the way it fits my hand.

I feel the same way about my weiner.

I'm just sayin'..........

[jdcamb]

I feel the same way about my weiner.

I'm just sayin'..........

I am sure everyone here is just as happy as I am that you felt the need to share that with us....

[MMike]

I aim to please!

[jdcamb]

I aim to please!

Point that thing somewhere else. Okay?

[TheMontashu]

Seems like I am the odd one..I CANNOT STAND the Glock trigger. It reminds me of a Jack-in-the box. If you just keep fiddling with it for long enough, it will finally go off, but you never know when.

For a never clean, drop it in the dirt, run it over with a car and it will always work, the Glock is a great survival tool. But the trigger feel makes it a no-go for me.

I am a 1911 fan (I think the .45 is a great choice for this use as well) but they can be a little more 'needy' (maint, cleaning, etc) and also have a tendancy to suck you into UGI...

IF you have the opportunity DEFINATELY try some stuff out and get what is most comfortable for YOU.

Then lock it up!!!!!!!!!!
I am a target shooter first and foremost, my air guns all have 150 gram triggers, and my rimfire guns are around 200 grams. The stock glock trigger sucks, it comes with a 12 pound connector pin, glock sells a 1.5 pound one that does WONDERS for that thing. That being said the 3.5' connector pin makes the trigger OK, not great by any standard. Some good smithing work on the other hand can make that trigger feel good, not great like my target guns, but good.

[GiantRider]

Glock=relieability, Springfield=old school heavy gun,I have both of these.The 1911 is much more fun too shoot, but for all out relieability I use the glock.However the best weapon for home defense would be a shot gun,like a Mossberg 550 or something similar,you pretty much cant miss even at 2 in the morning when your all sleepy and the sound of cocking it alone will deter most people.If you miss with a pistol there is a greater chance of the rounds going into your neigbors house or somewhere else they dont belong.Just my two cents.

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

My first handgun was a severly used GLOCK 17 from a Navy SEAL freind of mine back in the 80's. The finish was almost wore off ! Still fired. You can't go wrong with a GLOCK!
I shot a few competetions with the GLOCK 21.It's a little big though physical size wise. I have a smaller GLOCK now.

[caputo1989]

i'm very partial to the 1911 but...i would take a Sig over a Glock anytime.

i know a Sig isnt on your list but it should be.

Sig's have too many small parths to keep clean.
Also, .40's are fun but kinda snappy. Just like buying a bike you can find ranges and shops w/ ranges to try different guns and calibers.
9mm is by far the easiest of the (effictive) auto rounds to shoot then the .45acp because there is less presures in the chamber as the gun is going off.
The .40 is like shooting a +p .38 super with the high pressures inside the gun. Yeah the .40 moves faster than the .45 but the .45 needs less force to put a bigger hole into something.

My advice would be to:
a.) find a caliber you are acurate and percice with.
b.) look into the big bore revolvers .357mag and up
c.) learn to shoot auto hand guns with a 9mm
d.) buy a shotgun and load it strategicly for home defence.

You may also want to look into the Taurus 24/7 OSS comes in 9mm, .40S&W & .45ACP

[caputo1989]

I have a glock 23, I must say when I first got it I only did so cause I got a good deal. I was convinced that only 1911s were any good. After 10k or so rounds I have to say that after my target pistol and my revolver my 23 is my favorite handgun. For auto loaders I would say go either glock or high end 1911. The XDs are nice but they are essentially glock rip offs.
Nothing is going to beat the glock in terms of ease of operation, and ease of maintenance. The one and only negative I have found with the glock is that they do not like to shoot solid lead bullets, so if you are buying factory reloads make sure they are jacketed.



Also, I would get a .357 sig barrel and mags for the thing. Use the 40 for practicing because the ammo is so cheep, but use the 357 sig for home defense because that round hits ALOT harder.

:blah: .357 sig is like a super monster. cool to have but totally useless. :disgust1:

[TheMontashu]

:blah: .357 sig is like a super monster. cool to have but totally useless. :disgust1:
Not true at all, it has the power of a 357mag but I can put as many rounds down range fast as with a 40.


As far as shotguns of home defense, YOU CAN MISS, the spread on a 12 gauge even with a cylinder choke is next to nothing at 10-15 feet.

If you do use a shotgun I would try using number 6 shot instead of buck. Number 6 will get 2 or 3 inches into some one (thats all you need) and wont go through to many walls

[caputo1989]

Not true at all, it has the power of a 357mag but I can put as many rounds down range fast as with a 40.


As far as shotguns of home defense, YOU CAN MISS, the spread on a 12 gauge even with a cylinder choke is next to nothing at 10-15 feet.

If you do use a shotgun I would try using number 6 shot instead of buck. Number 6 will get 2 or 3 inches into some one (thats all you need) and wont go through to many walls


The .357 Sig is a necked down .40 S&W case loaded with .357 diameter bullets to be shot out of semi autos chambered for it. They are not cheap in facory rounds, and I would not recommend this caliber if you do NOT reload your own ammo. From a short barrel of most semi autos, median velocity is slightly above 1200 fps. .357 Mags shot from a 6" revolver averages over 1375fps. Out of a 4" barreled revolver , about 1300 fps. Fired out of a 7 1/2 to 8 " barrel, the .357 exceeds 1400 fps easily.

Hardly similar...

The .357 SIG has some advantages and disadvantages. It is a very 'hot' round and will wear out guns faster than say a .45acp.
It has extreme penetration properties. This is both a good and bad thing. For a home defense round, it's pretty dangerous as it will go through many walls. As a tactical police weapon where it is expected that an intended target may be in a vehicle or wearting body armor, it does it's job well.

If you are considering it, remember how expensive the ammo is....

So for personal defence why not use a slower larger bore pistol like a .45 that is more asccurate because of the much lower amounts of pressures? One Big hole is better than some fast moving scared misses. Id rather shoot one or two shots at the most than empty a clip at someone. Just saying a Snappy .357 sig is probobly not the best gun for some one that cant afford to practice with rounds that are $.75 or more a shot.

[TheMontashu]

Hardly similar...



So for personal defence why not use a slower larger bore pistol like a .45 that is more asccurate because of the much lower amounts of pressures? One Big hole is better than some fast moving scared misses. Id rather shoot one or two shots at the most than empty a clip at someone. Just saying a Snappy .357 sig is probobly not the best gun for some one that cant afford to practice with rounds that are $.75 or more a shot.
The whole point of having the .357 sig is owning a 40 with a sig barrel. You can practice with 40 and use the .357 sig for defense. It takes all of a minute to change the barrel in my glock. As well a lot of the new ammo for defense is designed to not go through walls.

As far as the recoil, the 357 isn't bad. I can double tap in the A zone on an ipsic target from 25 yard no problem. If you are good shooter and know how to manage recoil it isn't going to be an issue until you get into the huge revolver rounds

[caputo1989]

The whole point of having the .357 sig is owning a 40 with a sig barrel. You can practice with 40 and use the .357 sig for defense. It takes all of a minute to change the barrel in my glock. As well a lot of the new ammo for defense is designed to not go through walls.

As far as the recoil, the 357 isn't bad. I can double tap in the A zone on an ipsic target from 25 yard no problem. If you are good shooter and know how to manage recoil it isn't going to be an issue until you get into the huge revolver rounds

You mised the point. Why practice with something your not going to use i.e. .40 and carry with a .357sig? Pluss even the .40 is going to make a slightly bigger hole.

[TheMontashu]

You mised the point. Why practice with something your not going to use i.e. .40 and carry with a .357sig? Pluss even the .40 is going to make a slightly bigger hole.
It's rounds down range, trough the same gun. All you are doing is changing out the barrel. Sure the recoil is going to be different, but so is the recoil on your practice 45 ammo to your defense loads.

[H8R]

I just sleep with hand grenades under my pillow.

[johnbryanpeters]

...suck you into UGI...

Used Gun Insanity?

[Arkayne]

I couldn't resist

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/pritos/MTB/1207123609570.jpg

at least his finger is off the trigger. He's rockin' out with Guitar Hero too!

[1453]

I understand and that sucks. Around here you call and there are 4 cop cars before you hang up.

try that during times of crisis and disasters. I thought NYC people would know better than to count on the cops being there at all times. Heck my Dad still remembers seeing NYPD cops ripping tourists off back when he was there.

Anyhow around here the average response times for cops, if you get connected right the way, is around 5 minutes at the earliest. If anything else is going on then good luck to you. :plthumbsdown:

[MMike]

How 'bout an alarm on your home?

[1453]

in the five minutes(or however long it takes the police) between the alarm going off and they arrive, a lot can happen.

if you are willing to bet your family's life on that period of time and have faith that everything will be okay, go ahead. My wife is more important than feel-good sociological arguments. We have safes for our equipment and are responsible about it.

seriously, that way I figure it, if you don't want a gun in your house, it's your decision. Just please don't try to decide for my family. we all took courses and are capable of handling them, even my wife, who is the sweetest person you will ever meet.

oh yeah, in case anyone were picturing me and my wife as gun-toting trailer trash, we both graduated from UCB, and I'm going to do my masters or PHD in the fall, and she works in one of the most prestigious libraries in the world.


on topic, also keep in mind that the equipment you use to defend your family should be something that you are willing to lose. In most states, even those with Castle doctrine, your pistol, when it is used, even if it were in a justifiable fashion, would still be taken in as evidence and potentially take years before you can get it back. So a reliable but not too flashy model should be considered, otherwise the prosecutor and perp's family can come after you by focusing how "trick" of a gun you used and distort your image.

[I_N_I]

I carry a Glock 19 in a com-tac infidel holster, but for bumps in the night, I prefer my sig 226 in .40. I feel more comfortable with the double/single action of the Sig's trigger when the gun is loaded and just "laying about" than I am with the glock. My loaded chambered glock stays in the holster.

Whatever you choose, don't forget a good flashlight. I prefer a hand held as opposed to a weapon mounted one.

[ultraNoob]

when the gun is loaded and just "laying about" than ...



soundin sketch there buddy

[I_N_I]

soundin sketch there buddy

Why?
I live alone, and see no problem leaving a loaded firearm readily accessible. I don't have a nightstand, so the Sig stays on the floor under the bed. If there were children about, it would secured differently.

[ultraNoob]

Thanks for clearing that up. What happens if someone breaks in while you're not home? Under the bed is the first place I'd look for a gun.

[I_N_I]

Thanks for clearing that up. What happens if someone breaks in while you're not home? Under the bed is the first place I'd look for a gun.

Canine deterrent, and all guns and valuables are in a gunsafe bolted to a concrete slab. It's all I really can do.

[ultraNoob]

:thumb: That's the answer I was hoping for!

[Arkayne]

I'm only 'considering' becoming an owner. I still need more edumacation about how and where I'm going to keep it from prying hands. Ya'll with kids, what do you do?

[ultraNoob]

... Ya'll with kids, what do you do?

drop them off at the pool.

Seriously though. Keep them outta reach, unloaded, and locked up. Educate your kids about safe firearm handling as soon as they're in first grade and take them shooting often so the "gun" isn't some juicy mystery to be touched all the time.

my $0.02

[profro]

Seriously though. Keep them outta reach, unloaded, and locked up. Educate your kids about safe firearm handling as soon as they're in first grade and take them shooting often so the "gun" isn't some juicy mystery to be touched all the time.

Those are some crazy ideas you got there. :clapping:

[ultraNoob]

Those are some crazy ideas you got there. :clapping:

haha, I grew up in the auto wrecking yards with my dad. I used to run around the 2-3 acres of cars and play with the junkyard dogs. At the age of 5 my dad made me carry a .22 auto pistol in one pocket and a loaded mag in the other when I played. Incase I came across a dog or animal (rattlers) that was gonna bite me. Me 3, ratllers 0, foaming at the mouth dog 0.

[TKCastle]

Wow, a lot of weird advice going on here. The thing that scares me the most is that you all are talking about trigger pull weight's and switching out connectors to bring down trigger weight.

O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it). A gun with a supper light trigger or really short trigger pull is dangerous in that if the intruder in a pitch dark house is one of you love ones, the last thing you want to do is shoot them. A heavy trigger gives you the safety of not shooting a loved one buy the increased pressure it take to touch off the round. Glock makes a parts to convert to a N.Y. Trigger(10+ pound trigger pull) It sounds heavy and it is but its the training that is going to save you and your family not the weapon. Mossberg makes a series of the 500 with a trigger like a double action (long trigger pull with increased weight) it comes with a rear ghost sight and a front high-viz that works really good in low light conditions. The shot gun should always be you first consideration when it comes to home defense, accuracy should always be at the forefront, shotguns in the hands of those with less traing can hit targets within home distances. Light shot loads also keep down the penetration factor in case of a miss you dont injure or harm those out side of your home. Handgun rounds will indeed zip through multiple walls, and will still cause injury going through many walls. There has been talk of Hollow points for self defense and it should be a no brainer but remember this, there has been studys that show when a H/P round is fired inside a house the hollow part of the round compacts with drywall and fills in the tip and basically turns the bullet into ball ammo and can and will increase penetration so it will penetrate more walls. Training again will help insure you are not putting anyone else in danger. When I am asked by someone what gun for self defense/home protection I will always say a Double action revolver. They are made in .45 and with full moon clips and with training can be reloaded faster than a semi-auto. The double action adds safety to ensure you are ready to shoot.Smith-wesson just started making a model with tactical rail below the barrel if you choose to hang a light off the front. Revolvers are easy to check the condition(loaded/un-loaded) and are a touch more reliable, not saying that semi-auto's are not reliable but revolvers are not prone to jamming by limp wristing(the action of griping a semi-auto lightly and causing a stove pipe jam) something that shows up in women shooters but can be corrected with training. If you can read anything by Mas Ayoob, he is the nation foremost expert when it comes to self defense and the trials and tribulations that come from it. Some of the trials that he has been a part of will blow your mind on how the Home Owner has been cast as the bad guy by the prosecution. His first word of advise for the person looking for self/home defense DO NOT alter the trigger in any way or use models with target(lightened) triggers its just one more thing that keeps you defense solid when it comes time to justify yourself in a court of law. Have a lawyer handy because if you do shoot someone even in your own home you will be arrested until the cops figure out what really went down and train, train and train some more. You are the king of your castle learn to defend it and your love ones, don't be a statistic.

Mike.

[TKCastle]

drop them off at the pool.

Seriously though. Keep them outta reach, unloaded, and locked up. Educate your kids about safe firearm handling as soon as they're in first grade and take them shooting often so the "gun" isn't some juicy mystery to be touched all the time.

my $0.02

Damn straight Noob! Teach your kids to shoot and show them that they are not toys. The smiles on their faces will be the reward in it self.
As soon as my nephews turned of age I took them shooting so the wouldn't be at a friends house playing with a dad's gun unsupervised. Uncle mike has all the cool guns and know I find myself just being an R/O when I take them out. I shoot maybe a Mag or two the rest of the time I just lay back and look at there smiles and thank god I can give them this opportunity to be responsible shootist. Why should I shoot anyways they are all better shots then I can ever be. I can't even see the metal plate at 400 yds. Damn their young eyes.

[ultraNoob]

Mike... I'm impressed. Good stuff there.

If there's a question of home defense weapons, never forget that it's the 21st century and we have more options now...
http://www.taser.org/images/taser-c2-2.jpg

[MikeD]

How 'bout an alarm on your home?

That'd be good to wake you up in time to get awake enough to get your firearm...sure isn't going to stop someone from doing you harm if that's what they intend to do.

People who think guns alone make them safe are idiots. People who think alarms or the cops alone make them safe are also idiots.

Personal and family security is a matter of mindset and a layered approach to counteracting your vulnerabilities. A gun is possibly going to save your family some day--or could be part of a horrendous tragedy. But nothing is going to keep you 100% safe--you have to accept some risk in life. Putting some thought to organizing your risk is a healthy and worthwhile thing.

Handguns would NOT be my personal choice for home defense if I wasn't a well-trained COMBAT handgun shooter.

A good dog would be my first choice before anything else, if my situation allowed it. But that's because I like animals.

[Zark]

I'd go for the Ciaran approach to home security: A mace. No one's a bad ass after getting slammed with a mace to the head.

[Stray_cat]

Man, I wish I could find the statistic. Either way there's a surprisingly high percentage of people who are shot with their own guns.

[manimal]

drop them off at the pool.

Seriously though. Keep them outta reach, unloaded, and locked up. Educate your kids about safe firearm handling as soon as they're in first grade and take them shooting often so the "gun" isn't some juicy mystery to be touched all the time.

my $0.02

ditto. noah shoots regularly at the range with me and i made sure to demonstrate the destructive power of a firearm the first time i took him out shooting. he respects them and never seems inquisitive about them at home, my only concern is when his friends come over to play. i can vouch for my son's common sense but not always for his paste eating friends....hence the reason i'm the only one in the house who knows the combo to the safe :D

as far as preference:
i carry a glock 22 (.40 cal) on duty and like it a lot, although i just replaced a magazine because it kept hanging up on me. but that is the ONLY issue i've had with it since '04 and a crapload of rounds have been fired through it.
personally though, i like the feel of a 1911 model just because it's slimmer and fits my chubby hands a little better...but i prefer the glock for duty due to it's simplicity and weight. i just use my kimber 1911 when mrs. manimal is being stingy and i need to pitch wood ;)
i carry a taurus pt140 as my off-duty weapon, it's the same size as a baby glock (27) but it's a double action every shot which is kind of a bummer.....but it was cheap, doesn't jam and i'm too broke to buy something else right now :twitch:

pic:
noah at about 5 yrs old.....this was before i realized that he is right handed/left eye dominant but you can definitely tell by the way he's holding his head in the pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/sempertubby/DSC01291.jpg

[TheMontashu]

I'm only 'considering' becoming an owner. I still need more edumacation about how and where I'm going to keep it from prying hands. Ya'll with kids, what do you do?
Keep it in a safe they can't get into. As well don't tell them "never touch, guns bad." At least teach them how to be safe around firearms, or better yet teach them how to use them. Keep the guns out of the reach of the kids, but make it so they are comfortable around them and not scared.

[TKCastle]

Man, I wish I could find the statistic. Either way there's a surprisingly high percentage of people who are shot with their own guns.

Maybe you cant find it because it has been disproved.

[TKCastle]

pic:
noah at about 5 yrs old.....this was before i realized that he is right handed/left eye dominant but you can definitely tell by the way he's holding his head in the pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/sempertubby/DSC01291.jpg[/QUOTE]

Don't worry about the eye dominance thing if he is that old a shooting already. By the time he is a young teen he'll be shooting with both eyes and be a ringer.

[MikeD]

Actually, I shot a Glock extensively for the first time today. I admire the Glock more than most other handguns--as a product, it's unbeatable for performance, simplicity, and value, and an amazing feat of engineering.

But it doesn't fit my hand all too well, and there are no ergonomic adjustments (a'la Smith and Wesson M&P). Not that I have a choice in the matter, but I'll gladly stick with my SIG anyhow. I've trained so long and so hard with it that I just can't willingly use anything else. Glocks have a distinct grip angle, too, which causes me presentation issues. I'd have to spend a long time to correct that.

If you do get a Glock, get a 9mm (recommend 17 or 34 for home defense). Glock designed the guns around the 9mm cart.; everything else is an adaptation from the original design.

Don't believe anything about the Internet and gun-geek caliber wars. Pistol calibers are ALL weak, and no pistol caliber will knock anyone down or stop anyone all by itself. Once you've got a round powerful enough to penetrate bone, all that matters is shot placement. It's not about the tool, it's about the user. Cheap 9mm ammo lets you practice more, too.

Don't get a 1911. Think of it as a classic sports car--fun, with historical appeal for enthusiasts and a lot of character, but easily outperformed by most modern products. I love the single-stack (like Manimal, I have stubby fingers) and straight-back trigger, but it's too complex (mechanically and in the manual-of-arms) and requires the use of an external manual safety, which can be a liability for a carry gun.

So yeah, get a glock 9mm and spend all the cash you save on training, ammo, and a good system for keeping it out of the wrong hands. (and/or a dog, motion lights, alarm system, escape ladders, whatever...)

[ultraNoob]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/sempertubby/DSC01291.jpg

I take it the rope is there to reset the pop up target?

[ultraNoob]

Not the route i'd go for home defense.

dead men tell no tales...

there is a certain morbid satisfaction when you taze someone. :happydance:

[manimal]

I take it the rope is there to reset the pop up target?

yup...we have an awesome range, so cool that it's considered a "regional" training facility. we have a bunch of poppers, dualing trees, rifle plates and a 40 lane turning target system complete with shoot/no shoot pneumatic poppers and a runner. we just got a grant as well that will cover 2 shoot houses, 1 live and 1 modular for sim rounds along with a sniper tower that will double as a repel/building search area. me loves free ammo and a good place to use it :D

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a307/sempertubby2/tactbrag.jpg

[DirtyMike]

Something that needs to be said, and I am suprised noone has said this yet. If you plan on using any gun for home/personal defense, You need to be ready to KILL!!! Get that through your head before you buy ANY gun for defense, thats what they are made to do. If you cannot handle Killing someone in self defense and the thought of it will make you hesitate, You need to stick with a Baseball bat, Or a nice tazer of coarse.

Ok with that said, I really like the glock 22 Very nice weapon, lightweight, very dependable. decent price too.

When I carry, I usually carry My Model 13 S&W, thats a 3in barrel .357. Yes it has a fair amount of recoil, but again its dependable and easy to use. I do not carry a glock, because I do not own one myself as of yet, and I am only licensed as of current to carry teh Model 13. As far as hiome defense goes, I have a Mossburg 12g home defender 7 shot shotgun. No choke, slightly shorter barrel standard stock. #6 shot By the way
I have ONE very big reason for using a shotgun for home defense, If soemone is breaking into my home, and I yell "I have a GUN..... They may or may not belive me. But when I yell I have a gun, then rack the rather loud Mossburg defender......They know it. I know a Shotgun can miss, but tha fact is a shotgun is far more intimidating than a hand gun, specially with the sound

Again, I will reiterate the first part of my statement, if you are going to use a gun for home/self defense. You ned to first understand its a weapon for KILLING and you need to be ready to do so. Also I HIGHLY reccomend taking Classes on how to properly use a gun for defense, alot of people can shoot great, but need to know how to act in a panic situation.

[pdawg]

If you have to keep a gun at home to protect your family, perhaps moving to a safer area would be a good idea.

[pdawg]

Thats's just wrong.

[TKCastle]

If you have to keep a gun at home to protect your family, perhaps moving to a safer area would be a good idea.

Finland has the world's third highest rate of gun ownership according to a recent survey so they feel the need to protect themselves from something.
Is there ever a truly safe area to be? Students in finland thought they were safe until a student, 18, killed eight people and fatally wounded himself at his school in the town of Tuusula.

So keep telling yourself you live in a truly safe part of the world. I'll stay where I am and fight thank you very much.

[DirtMcGirk]

I've got a few 23's, a handfull of 1911's.

If I was going to have one gun, and one gun only, for home defense, I would still want a .45. I like my .40's for carry, and I love my 10mm for out in the boonys, but if I had to have just one for the house, it would be my Springfield Operator TRP Marine edition.

It never jams.
Its the gun of choice for FBI HRT.

and if I run out of rounds, I can beat someone to death with it.

[pdawg]

Gun culture in the US and Finland is not the same, i.e. Finnish law only allows firearms for hunting and sport... not self defense. Therefore, despite occasional gun related crime most people choose not to arm themselves or live in fear (as stupid as it may seem).

Gun ownership is high here in Finland and shooting sports are quite popular. At my workplace, there is a shooting range where I keep my Glock 17. However, I choose not to take my gun home since I do not feel the need.

[ultraNoob]

... However, I choose not to take my gun home since I do not feel the need.

Kudos to you for keeping up the sport of shooting. I have a few honest questions for you though.

If someone breaks into your home and endangers your family, how would you defend them?

How would you defend them if they were armed with a knife or other deadly object?

How would you defend them if there are multiple intruders?

[Zark]

Kudos to you for keeping up the sport of shooting. I have a few honest questions for you though.

If someone breaks into your home and endangers your family, how would you defend them?

How would you defend them if they were armed with a knife or other deadly object?

How would you defend them if there are multiple intruders?

Its Finland Sherm!
Possi's gonna be threatened by Reindeer?
Theres a low population density, a high rate of employment and a low rate of crime. There aren't the same societal pressures you see in the good o'le f**ked up USA.

As for the what if's I'm pretty sure Possi could throw a hard stare Norris style and the perp would be squirting play-doh ;)

[pdawg]

Kudos to you for keeping up the sport of shooting. I have a few honest questions for you though.

If someone breaks into your home and endangers your family, how would you defend them?

How would you defend them if they were armed with a knife or other deadly object?

How would you defend them if there are multiple intruders?

I have strategically placed mirrors in most of the rooms. Not only does this help indoor lighting during the dark months, it acts a clever distraction when foe enter my domicile. This allows my family and I to safely escape out the back door.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/EntertheDragonMirror.jpg

For multiple aggressors, I find nunchaku to be the most formidable weapon.

[H8R]

Question for the group:

Where the fvck do you live where home invasion is such a high risk that you need the capability of lethal force at all times?


Most crack heads that would break into a house can be taken out with minimal physical effort, and they wouldn't be breaking in when you were home anyway.

[MikeD]

Question for the group:

Where the fvck do you live where home invasion is such a high risk that you need the capability of lethal force at all times?


Most crack heads that would break into a house can be taken out with minimal physical effort, and they wouldn't be breaking in when you were home anyway.

Crackheads breaking into a house to steal stuff aren't the same as a home invasion.

That said, you're right, home invasion is a low risk--but if it happens to you, or one of any other myriad violent possibilities, it's high-stakes.

I agree that if you're planning for this sort of thing, however, you should work on some more likely scenarios (such as fire/medical emergency/natural disaster) before you plan for the one-in-a-hundred thousand shot (for most of us) that you're targeted in your home by a violent criminal. You should also work on deterrents and "hard targeting" as your primary way to keep ****heads away from your home and family. (Again, I'm a BIG fan of dogs.)

And I also agree that if you're not trained to use a gun as a practical tool for lethal force, not a way to punch holes in paper, it's a liability to your safety. As a security professional, I also endorse getting away from danger instead of trying to defend abstract notions of justice or "protecting your domain." But I also have to acknowledge that a home/family situation makes it very unlikely that you'll be able to evacuate your family from your home in the event of a break-in or invasion.

People who plan for the worst are not 'living in fear' as their detractors would have it. On the contrary, the prepared individual can be as relaxed as the person who chooses willing oblivion to danger in the name of "freedom from fear." Most people go through life without considering or preparing, and never face the consequences--and if they do, they don't look at their lack of preparation as a failure; they just see themselves as victims. But some of us don't have a victim mentality. You may make me a victim, but it'll be damned hard.

I spent the scariest night of my life (in comparison to receiving rocket and mortar fire) in our suburban hotel the other week when I had a 3 AM confrontation with some big, violent guys, and wisely got my ass out of harm's way and retreated to my room, where I had to face, for the first time, violence in the presence of my family. The dudes running up and down the hall screaming for my "nigger ass" (funny, cuz I'm a Jew of the palest pale) would have eaten a lot of lead if they'd only been sober enough to remember which door I'd escaped to. They were preparing to break down doors. Not cool, especially as I suspected at least one of them was armed, and if they started pounding my door down, they'd have met the threshold for reasonable use of deadly force.

[DirtMcGirk]

There's that old saying "I'd rather have 12 men judge me then 6 men carry me..."

Or

"I carry a gun because a cop is just too damn heavy."

Who knows, the world is a strange place where I'd rather have it and not need it then vice versa.

You don't like/agree with guns?
Good for you, that's your choice.
However, its a CHOICE you've made, but please don't make it for the rest of us.

You think guns are icky?
Knitting is another good way to maintain a good trigger finger.

You think they should be banned?
Too late for that sparky. Come try to take mine first, I'll save others the time.

[Arkayne]

...they'd have met the threshold for reasonable use of deadly force.

I'm trying to educate myself the best I can to determine what this "threshold" is.

[MikeD]

I'm trying to educate myself the best I can to determine what this "threshold" is.

Depends on where you are, as different states say different things about it. Some places require you to try and escape before using lethal force ("obligation to retreat") whereas others say you have carte blanche to use lethal force against an intruder within your home.

Talk to your local police, perhaps.

However, the key in use of force is articulation of what you knew and why that made you feel threatened by a danger of serious bodily injury or death.

[DirtMcGirk]

http://blogs.chron.com/mamadrama/archives/giant7.jpg


Can the action figures use deadly force here?

[MikeD]

Duh, they're action figures.

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

Some places require you to try and escape before using lethal force ("obligation to retreat")

People can thank Ted Kennedy for this backwards idea!:plthumbsdown::disgust1:

[H8R]

I agree that if you're planning for this sort of thing, however, you should work on some more likely scenarios (such as fire/medical emergency/natural disaster) before you plan for the one-in-a-hundred thousand shot (for most of us) that you're targeted in your home by a violent criminal. You should also work on deterrents and "hard targeting" as your primary way to keep ****heads away from your home and family. (Again, I'm a BIG fan of dogs.)

I agree. Buy a gun and learn how to use it if you feel the need, but damn - if you have a family and you live in a neighborhood where you need a gun, fvcking move buddy!

I just think there are way more dangerous things to worry about. I was way more scared of earthquakes than home invasion when I lived in Oakland. I was also more afraid of my daughter getting hurt in school than I was of her getting hurt at home. So we moved.

Now I'm just scared of earthquakes.

[MikeD]

I agree. Buy a gun and learn how to use it if you feel the need, but damn - if you have a family and you live in a neighborhood where you need a gun, fvcking move buddy!

I just think there are way more dangerous things to worry about. I was way more scared of earthquakes than home invasion when I lived in Oakland. I was also more afraid of my daughter getting hurt in school than I was of her getting hurt at home. So we moved.

Now I'm just scared of earthquakes.

Dude, no one needs a gun until they need a gun.

People outside what are considered "bad" places can be and are victims of violence. Many people in "bad" places can't afford to move, or simply don't want to.

Edit: Again, look at my encounter the other week. Ended up not needing to shoot anyone, but what if those dudes had tried to break through my door? Grabbing a kitchen knife and attacking them isn't exactly a tactically advantageous way to deal with them...two guys, bigger than me, in close proximity to my wife...potentially armed themselves.

This is not a hotel in a bad neighborhood. But no hotel staff came to my aid when I requested it, and there wasn't much to tell the cops after the first encounter...and it was too late for them to get there in time when they came back yelling threats.

[H8R]

Dude, no one needs a gun until they need a gun.

I can totally agree with that.

It's all about reducing the odds you would need one. That was my point.

[MikeD]

I can totally agree with that.

It's all about reducing the odds you would need one. That was my point.

Well geez, have you read my posts that you quoted? It seems we agree...

[ultraNoob]

MikeD... crazy stuff there man. As far as crackheads go. I was tossed 6 feet by an 85lb woman hopped up on speed. She took 2 orderlies out, tossed me across the room, and one nurse before I swept her legs and and somehow cuffed her. My scariest moment involved me trying to break up a 5 person brawl in an alley. One went for my gun... he met my fist then my asp.

I understand H8r's point about moving if you feel that you're in an unsafe area, but Mike also has a valid point.... some people can't afford to... *raises hand*... I'm fortunate enough to have received some damn valuable training in my day and continue to practice it at least once a month (more times in my head when I'm bored). But I don't rely on my firearm as my first line of defense. PDawg actually revealed one of my defenses. Mirrors or large picture frames strategically placed so I can see the "hidden" entrances from common areas. Hand to hand combat training is also a great tool too.

[MikeD]

before I swept her legs


Is there pain in your dojo?

http://www.flipsidesports.net/cobrakai2.jpg

[DirtyMike]

I am in the group that cannot afford to live in the worlds safest neighborhood. If you think you can take out someone who is all methed out think again, they dont feel a damn thing. I dont keep a gun because I think My neighborhood is unsafe, But the town just over teh hill Mentone<AKA METHTONE> is what scares me. There isnt a big problem here, but at night the crackheads do there "shopping" in my town

[TKCastle]

Hey Noob what PD you work for?

[H8R]

Well geez, have you read my posts that you quoted? It seems we agree...

What...I'm supposed to read the replies?

:think:


I'm to busy trying to understand what I just posted.

[H8R]

I understand H8r's point about moving if you feel that you're in an unsafe area, but Mike also has a valid point.... some people can't afford to... *raises hand*...

I was fortunate enough to move away to where it's cheaper AND safer.

[ultraNoob]

Hey Noob what PD you work for?

U.S. Army... former

[tacklespore]

I have both of them. If you are inexperience with firearms get the Springfield. I would rather shoot and tinker around with my Glock 23 though. I bring my Glock over the XD if I do carry.

[H8R]

Would a shotgun be worth a damn in a home defense situation?

(in comparison)

[ultraNoob]

00 buck for home defense?! Only if I were defending against bear. Rock salt or bird shot. Bird shot will give you a nice spread and be enough to knock an intruder down and make him writhe in pain so you can kick him in the nuts repeatedly. Rock salt would be more humane though cuz you're helping him disinfect the wounds.

[ultraNoob]

hence the kicking in the nuts part.... I neglected mention that you could shoot him again if he got up. Thought that was a given. I have a somewhat morbid sense of pain/suffering... just ask the guys I ride with when I say... "hmm, let's go this way"

[DirtMcGirk]

http://www.fredschoeneman.com/archives/ak47.jpg

"AK-47, the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every single mother****er in the room; accept no substitute."

[H8R]

When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every single mother****er in the room; accept no substitute."

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

[DirtMcGirk]

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

Well, everyone but you.
Lord, I just want to play gangster, you want to play Hitler.
That's quite a step up in force if you ask me.

[ultraNoob]

eff, the AK.. it's a poor excuse for a room broom. This isn't...
whispering death (http://www.rbgungraphics.com/mac10.html)

[DirtyMike]

00 buck for home defense?! Only if I were defending against bear. Rock salt or bird shot. Bird shot will give you a nice spread and be enough to knock an intruder down and make him writhe in pain so you can kick him in the nuts repeatedly. Rock salt would be more humane though cuz you're helping him disinfect the wounds.

I agree, 00 buck is just too damn big for the home, #6 bird shot will do just fine, and is plenty lethal. AND you wont have bullets going through your neighbors walls either!!

[DirtMcGirk]

http://www.lakesideguns.com/c3gallery/sweepers.jpg

We'll compromise, 10ga Street Sweeper with a slung under Mac 10.


And 00buck is the only thing I put in my 870. I like the idea of the "flying pudding cup of death"

[I_N_I]

Birdshot is for birds, and cannot be relied upon to penetrate the vitals of the bad guy.

[DirtMcGirk]

http://www.ima-usa.com/images/MU1013.jpg

If its worth doing, its worth doing right

[MikeD]

Would a shotgun be worth a damn in a home defense situation?

(in comparison)

Best option IMHO.

[DirtyMike]

isnt there only like 12 pieces of shot to keep up with though?

:)

A few more shots than that with #6

[manimal]

http://www.ima-usa.com/images/MU1013.jpg

If its worth doing, its worth doing right

yup, scare 'em with an inert training grenade ;)

[ultraNoob]

yup, scare 'em with an inert training grenade ;)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[FOXROX]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI

i say get the glock! lol

[Da Peach]

strap this to your dog (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8&feature=related)

or let gramma take care of business (http://youtube.com/watch?v=--K3X6rptE4&feature=related)

[MikeD]

Back to topic--there's no way an XD compares to a Glock in quality. I also think grip safeties are really dumb and find the XD's very un-ergonomic. Glocks, if you shoot them well or are just learning to shoot anyhow, are the best choice in a handgun. (Again, me, I like SIG.)

But a shotgun is even cheaper, easier to use, and probably more effective for what you're talking about. If you're worried about the patterning or penetration of the shotgun, you shouldn't be shooting from that angle with ANY gun in a home-defense situation. Rule 4 of firearms--be aware of your target, backstop, and beyond. If you launch it, you own it.

[JohnE]

Have watched this one from the sidelines...my take.
I am a AF Cop, was a civilian cop for 4 years between hitches. I am pretty well trained in many forms of armed and unarmed self defense. Plus, I used to play hockey...AND I watch alot of Walker, Texas Ranger. You know how deadly that is!
But, as I stated in another thread, home defense is why I have dogs. And guns. And a cel phone next to my bed. Anything weird happens, I let the dogs out, have the wife grab the phine while I grab the shotgun. I would step out into the hallway, assume the Weaver stance (Thats for some of you old timers...) light up the hallway with a Sure Fire, and rack a round of birdshot into the 12 ga. While I do this, Momma calls 911, and I let whoever is downrange from me know that they can take anything they want, but if they come the hall and threaten me or my family, they will regret it.

9mm or .45, or most any pistol for that matter, WAY too much velocity for home defense...but I love my 1911 and my Hi Power.

You baseball bat guys, you can be just as easily beat down with your own Louisville Slugger...

[Lowlight7]

(Again, me, I like SIG.)



Yeah, you would. :biggrin:

I'll second the notion that a good 18" barreled, 12ga shotgun with a light, loaded with #4 or #6 shot is a better weapon than a pistol for "bumps in the night"...

The primary virtue of a pistol is that you wear it and have it with you at all times.

BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, take an NRA Basic class. They will have guns there that you can shoot. They will know your local laws regarding self defense. They will teach you shooting basics.

After you buy your pistol/shotgun/phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, seek out a combat shooting school for some professional training.

Introduce your kid to guns. My father did when I was 5 or 6. I always knew that guns weren't taboo. If I wanted to handle one of his, all I had to do was ask so there was no need to sneak around. By the time I had friends coming over while my parents were away, guns were no big deal so I had no reason to show them off...

Yeah, alot of people are shot with their own guns. Alot of people are shot with other people's guns, too. At the ATM. Going to their car after work. Etc. You live in a nice neighborhood? So do I. You really think a crackhead is going to rob someone in his Section 8 apartment complex? He knows the money is in the "nice" neighborhoods...

[MikeD]

Wow, a lot of weird advice going on here. The thing that scares me the most is that you all are talking about trigger pull weight's and switching out connectors to bring down trigger weight.

O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it). A gun with a supper light trigger or really short trigger pull is dangerous in that if the intruder in a pitch dark house is one of you love ones, the last thing you want to do is shoot them. A heavy trigger gives you the safety of not shooting a loved one buy the increased pressure it take to touch off the round.

Speaking of "weird advice," I find your implication that you should have your finger on the trigger before you've ID'd a target to be not only weird, but irresponsibly dangerous.

Heavy trigger pulls don't save the lives of your loved ones from you shooting them. Proper weapons handling and target identification do. Period. Nor does heavy trigger pressure mean a thing if you've made the (bad) decision to shoot at an unknown target, except perhaps making you more likely to miss if you're a bad shot.

That said, I'm not one for modifying any factory gun beyond replacing grip panels unless it's a target shooter, not a fighting tool.

[DRB]

When I lived in the ghetto by myself with no alarm, I kept a 20ga Remington youth model (21" barrel) loaded with #3 buck. Light, little recoil and unlikely that I would kill the neighbors. Loud enough in an enclosed space and while not particularly lethal, going to put enough of a hurt at close range to have someone rethink their priorities.

Now the main home defense is a good alarm system and a nice neighborhood. The alarm goes off my first move is to get Willow, Emma gets the phone and we go to the bathroom. If there is time the shotgun is on the top shelf in the closet. And in honor of Stinky, my old fairbairn is on top of the medicine cabinet.

[TKCastle]

Speaking of "weird advice," I find your implication that you should have your finger on the trigger before you've ID'd a target to be not only weird, but irresponsibly dangerous.

Heavy trigger pulls don't save the lives of your loved ones from you shooting them. Proper weapons handling and target identification do. Period. Nor does heavy trigger pressure mean a thing if you've made the (bad) decision to shoot at an unknown target, except perhaps making you more likely to miss if you're a bad shot.

That said, I'm not one for modifying any factory gun beyond replacing grip panels unless it's a target shooter, not a fighting tool.

Wow I think we found the only human not effected by stress in stressful situations. So fast indeed that he forgot to read the first sentence of the second paragraph. So when I order a gun from glock with a NY trigger this is not considered factory? What ever gunfighter.

[Lowlight7]

Wow I think we found the only human not effected by stress in stressful situations. So fast indeed that he forgot to read the first sentence of the second paragraph. So when I order a gun from glock with a NY trigger this is not considered factory? What ever gunfighter.

We're all affected by stress. A heavier connector is not going to keep you from killing your family; keeping your finger off the the trigger until you've identified the threat and put your sights on target will.

What ever wannabe...

[TKCastle]

From my original post: "O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it)."

Who said i was an expert. what make you one? Because your LE? Please. Civilian training is just as edvanced as any that is taught to LE's. Learn to turn it off punchy life is too short.

Get over your self low life..ahm..I mean low light.

[Stray_cat]

Reading RM threads makes me wish there were less guns around.

[Lowlight7]

From my original post: "O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it)."

That is true. The problem with your post comes from: "A gun with a supper light trigger or really short trigger pull is dangerous in that if the intruder in a pitch dark house is one of you love ones, the last thing you want to do is shoot them. A heavy trigger gives you the safety of not shooting a loved one buy the increased pressure it take to touch off the round."

See my post above for why this safety measure is academic, at best.

Who said i was an expert.

You did.

what make you one?

About 3000 hours of training coupled with 10 years of experience in carrying a gun for a living.

Because your LE?

I am not.

Civilian training is just as edvanced as any that is taught to LE's.

I agree. In fact, I think most training in the private sector is far better that what most LE academies teach.

Get over your self low life..ahm..I mean low light.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

[MikeD]

Hey, TK, when you set yourself up by criticizing the advice of others ("lot of weird advice here"), your own had best stand up under scrutiny.

And, well, it doesn't.


(PS--the modification comment was actually agreeing with you--I generally don't think people should be *lightening* their triggers unless they're on target guns. That said, thinking a NY trigger is going to somehow compensate for improper weapon handling is likewise silly. Factory triggers are generally set that way for a reason.)

[Lowlight7]

TK, you caught me in a bad mood earlier and I was harsher than I should have been. For that I apologize. I'm going to leave up my earlier comment to demonstrate what an ass I was being.

My point still stands. Keep your finger off the trigger to avoid killing things.

[DRB]

TK, you caught me in a bad mood earlier and I was harsher than I should have been. For that I apologize. I'm going to leave up my earlier comment to demonstrate what an ass I was being.

My point still stands. Keep your finger off the trigger to avoid killing things.

pvssy

[manimal]

See my post above for why this safety measure is academic, at best.



You did.



About 3000 hours of training coupled with 10 years of experience in carrying a gun for a living.



I am not.



I agree. In fact, I think most training in the private sector is far better that what most LE academies teach.



C'mon, you can do better than that.

lol....lowlight, you're avatar is probably the best answer to this argument.. "this IS my safety, sir" :rofl:



TK, you're finger should NEVER be on the trigger until you are actually firing the weapon, a "custom" trigger in a gunfight is about as useful as a sundial at night.

[MikeD]

about as useful as a sundial at night.

You obviously don't carry a flashlight.

[Mr Jones]

You obviously don't carry a flashlight.

in which case it's always high noon