Pray for Healing vs. Going to the Damn Doctor.

[Jimmy_Pop]

I've had my brushes with radical christian freeks growing up. I can't judge these people but all i can say is, in my eyes, they rank right up there with the militant who blows themselves up for god. Maybe even worse cause its their own freekin child and this is the USA.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html
WESTON, Wis. — An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.

[stevew]

jesus needed her more.

[valve bouncer]

Just as bad as the moron threads you get in the lounge where someone says "my hand is swollen to twice it's normal size, I can't move my fingers, it's purple and it hurts like hell. What do you think I should do?" Well, now I know the answer- pray.

[ire]

A kid up here died from pneumonia recently because his parents prayed for his recovery instead of getting him antibiotics. They might press charges against the parents

[$tinkle]

pffft...foxnews will look for every opportunity to bash christianity.
pay them no mind son, except to pray for their troubled souls.


ok, i guess i'll be only slightly jaded after reading the story:The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.this pisses me off about the 1% of 1% of christians. they have faith in God, but no faith in the very doctors who have been blessed with God-given talent?

and this!"[The sisters] are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."if you discount their dying sister, of course

[Silver]

Wow, what a ****ty way to die.

Thanks God!

[N8]

reminds me of some the dumbasses in this recent thread:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198290

[BMXman]

ok so we should take away freedom of religion???...D

[$tinkle]

ok so we should take away freedom of religion???...Daccording to the story, they weren't members of a church nor a congregation. if anything, putting them withing a body of believers may have spared this child's life.

[Secret Squirrel]

ok so we should take away freedom of religion???...D

If we took away freedom of religion, we might not be on a "crusade" to save the world...



[/Drool-hat off]

[DRB]

I bet OMGF prayed that we would all die.

[$tinkle]

If we took away freedom of religion, we might not be on a "crusade" to save the world...do i need to remind you of the corollary of either banning or mandating religion?

while religion may not be good, it's certainly gooder than the compulsion by the state

edit for thread relevant x-post: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2877484&postcount=15
watch.

[Silver]

ok so we should take away freedom of religion???...D

Not at all. If you want to kill YOURSELF by not getting a doctor to look at a disease that is easily manageable, that's great.

You kill a child that is under your care? That's a whole other story. Your child isn't your property.

I assume you support female genital mutilation then? After all, you wouldn't want to step on the toes of religion. If someone wants to cut out their daughter's clitoris with a rusty razor blade because they think God told them to, who I am to question their judgement?

[jimmydean]

I have been reading some great books about the power of self-faith, but ALL of them say "if you are sick, see a doctor".

[H8R]

ok so we should take away freedom of religion???...D

Give us a fvcking break dude.

[ire]

I assume you support female genital mutilation then? After all, you wouldn't want to step on the toes of religion. If someone wants to cut out their daughter's clitoris with a rusty razor blade because they think God told them to, who I am to question their judgement?

Don't forget honor killings

[BMXman]

Not at all. If you want to kill YOURSELF by not getting a doctor to look at a disease that is easily manageable, that's great.

You kill a child that is under your care? That's a whole other story. Your child isn't your property.

I assume you support female genital mutilation then? After all, you wouldn't want to step on the toes of religion. If someone wants to cut out their daughter's clitoris with a rusty razor blade because they think God told them to, who I am to question their judgement?

They did not "kill" the child...you're just like the rest of the media...stop trying to sensationalize it!...They prayed and the child still died. I'm sure they are hurting enough without everyone judging them...as far as the FGM...how do hell to you come to these assumptions? I'm actually against them but that doesn't really matter as I try not to judge others cultures...ethnocentrism sucks!....D

[BMXman]

Give us a fvcking break dude.

Stop hating....D

[H8R]

Stop hating....D

Stop posting stupid replies. No one is asking to ban freedom of religion.

Just take sick kids to see a doctor so THEY DON'T DIE.

Simple request. Don't make this seem like a witch hunt, it's not.

[H8R]

They did not "kill" the child...

If I see a truck coming down the street and a baby is lying in the street, I can pray and pray and pray, but if the baby gets squashed, I have essentially killed the baby through inaction.

Yes, they killed that kid.

[DRB]

If I see a truck coming down the street and a baby is lying in the street, I can pray and pray and pray, but if the baby gets squashed, I have essentially killed the baby through inaction.

Yes, they killed that kid.

I'd give you +rep for this.

[H8R]

.as far as the FGM...how do hell to you come to these assumptions? I'm actually against them but that doesn't really matter as I try not to judge others cultures...

I do. I judge the fvck out of them.

If you chop up your daughter's vagina you deserve equally brutal and unneeded treatment.


FGM is used to degrade and oppress women in other cultures for "religious" purposes. It's far from Godly.

[BMXman]

Stop posting stupid replies. No one is asking to ban freedom of religion.

Just take sick kids to see a doctor so THEY DON'T DIE.

Simple request. Don't make this seem like a witch hunt, it's not.


The request is not a simple one for those who don't believe in doctors...it's funny how the people that were saved by prayer never make the news:lighten:...I'm not saying what they did was right but I will defend their choice to make that decision...D

[Silver]

They did not "kill" the child...you're just like the rest of the media...stop trying to sensationalize it!...They prayed and the child still died. I'm sure they are hurting enough without everyone judging them...as far as the FGM...how do hell to you come to these assumptions? I'm actually against them but that doesn't really matter as I try not to judge others cultures...ethnocentrism sucks!....D

By that logic, if you don't feed a baby, it's your not fault as the parents when it dies. After all, you were praying for nourishment, right?

I came to that assumption on female genital mutilation because I'm assuming that you've logically thought through your position. I do apologize for that inaccurate assumption...apparently what you should have written is "So we should take away MY freedom of religion?"

(By the way, I personally think that allowing a child to die because you didn't take her to the doctor to get treated for a disease that has been treatable since Banting discovered insulin is worse that female genital mutilation. After all, cutting your daughter's clitoris out (usually) leaves her ALIVE afterwards. But, I'm crazy that way...)

[BMXman]

If I see a truck coming down the street and a baby is lying in the street, I can pray and pray and pray, but if the baby gets squashed, I have essentially killed the baby through inaction.

Yes, they killed that kid.


Poor example...you didn't put the baby in the street...that's the same as saying you didn't stop someone from smoking so you killed them...D

[BMXman]

By that logic, if you don't feed a baby, it's your not fault as the parents when it dies. After all, you were praying for nourishment, right?

I came to that assumption on female genital mutilation because I'm assuming that you've logically thought through your position. I do apologize for that inaccurate assumption...apparently what you should have written is "So we should take away MY freedom of religion?"

(By the way, I personally think that allowing a child to die because you didn't take her to the doctor to get treated for a disease that has been treatable since Banting discovered insulin is worse that female genital mutilation. After all, cutting your daughter's clitoris out (usually) leaves her ALIVE afterwards. But, I'm crazy that way...)


Feeding a baby and taking it t the doctor are 2 totally different things. I don't know of any religion that has transcended to not being able to eat....but I'm very familiar with folks who don't go to the doctor for any reason at all...many of them really have no knowledge of medical conditions...so they may have not even known what their daughter had....again I'm not saying what they did was right but they should have the freedom to choose how to live...D

[valve bouncer]

The request is not a simple one for those who don't believe in doctors...it's funny how the people that were saved by prayer never make the news:lighten:...I'm not saying what they did was right but I will defend their choice to make that decision...D
If we're talking consenting adults I might agree with you and given your views in Loopies vaccination thread I can see where you're coming from but at some point we need to seperate our ideals from reality. You know what the right thing to do is. It's not difficult wrt to children.

[BMXman]

If we're talking consenting adults I might agree with you and given your views in Loopies vaccination thread I can see where you're coming from but at some point we need to seperate our ideals from reality. You know what the right thing to do is. It's not difficult wrt to children.


See that's sort of my stance now. I use to never go to a doctor but once I had a child things changed for me...which is why I quit the religion. Once my boy was born I would pretty much do anything to protect him....D

[binary visions]

I was just thinking about a story from a nurse friend the other day, and vaguely remembered posting it... Sure enough:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131965

[valve bouncer]

See that's sort of my stance now. I use to never go to a doctor but once I had a child things changed for me...which is why I quit the religion. Once my boy was born I would pretty much do anything to protect him....D
What we understand as medical knowledge is in reality the sum accumulation of what works. It's not part of some belief system. If it works, it works as all humans share the instinct to survive. As parents it's our obligation to use that knowledge.

[Secret Squirrel]

do i need to remind you of the corollary of either banning or mandating religion?

while religion may not be good, it's certainly gooder than the compulsion by the state

edit for thread relevant x-post: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2877484&postcount=15
watch.

You had to go and make it all serious and stuff...damn it...

[drool-hat still off...]

[Silver]

Feeding a baby and taking it t the doctor are 2 totally different things. I don't know of any religion that has transcended to not being able to eat....but I'm very familiar with folks who don't go to the doctor for any reason at all...many of them really have no knowledge of medical conditions...so they may have not even known what their daughter had....again I'm not saying what they did was right but they should have the freedom to choose how to live...D

They have the freedom to choose how THEY each live. They don't have the freedom to watch their daughter waste away and die of a treatable disease while they pray to an asshole God.

Because, after all, I know of no cases where prayer has been shown to cause healing in the case of a diabetic. Do you?

[BMXman]

Because, after all, I know of no cases where prayer has been shown to cause healing in the case of a diabetic. Do you?


Yes, but you would probably never hear about them unless you read the Christian Science Journal as well as The Christian Science Sentinel....D

[Silver]

Yes, but you would probably never hear about them unless you read the Christian Science Journal as well as The Christian Science Sentinel....D

No, I meant actual proof.

[BMXman]

No, I meant actual proof.


lol..how did I know you were going to say that....D

[kidwoo]

Yes, but you would probably never hear about them unless you read the Christian Science Journal as well as The Christian Science Sentinel....D


Did you just change you signature to that?


If you forgot what it is, check it out sometime.


EDIT: you cheeky little bastard

How long did it say "faith is the antithesis of proof" before you changed it for this thread?

[stevew]

If I see a truck coming down the street and a baby is lying in the street, I can pray and pray and pray, but if the baby gets squashed, I have essentially killed the baby through inaction.

Yes, they killed that kid.
Praying only cures gayness.

[BMXman]

Did you just change you signature to that?


If you forgot what it is, check it out sometime.


EDIT: you cheeky little bastard

How long did it say "faith is the antithesis of proof" before you changed it for this thread?

lol...I didn't change it for this thread....no reason to. I no longer have any faith in any religion...it was more of a shot at a friend of mine who is very religious...but my wife reminded me today that I still had a ways to go before I can be labeled a true canuck:D

[kidwoo]

but my wife reminded me today that I still had a ways to go before I can be labeled a true canuck:D

What did you do, bring home some good beer?

[H8R]

Poor example...you didn't put the baby in the street...that's the same as saying you didn't stop someone from smoking so you killed them...D

The truck is an analogy for disease, the baby in the street is an analogy for placing a child in harm's way by inaction.

My post is rock solid yo.



Repeatedly asking an invisible man to stop your kid from being sick and dying is really sad.

[H8R]

I no longer have any faith in any religion..

Then let's party.

http://dr-rockso.com/dr.rockso.jpg

[narlus]

They did not "kill" the child...you're just like the rest of the media...stop trying to sensationalize it!...They prayed and the child still died.

reminds me of the Onion article...

god answers 12 year old cancer patient's prayers...'No', says god.

[SlapheadMofo]

Feeding a baby and taking it t the doctor are 2 totally different things. I don't know of any religion that has transcended to not being able to eat....


I do.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/may21/14.25.html

Why is it gawd is always telling morons to do heinous ****? Cut off your kid's arms, starve them to death, blow up buses full of people? Why can't he just have them landscape my yard?

Stoopid gawd...

[BMXman]

I do.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/may21/14.25.html

Why is it gawd is always telling morons to do heinous ****? Cut off your kid's arms, starve them to death, blow up buses full of people? Why can't he just have them landscape my yard?

Stoopid gawd...

yeah I should have added the word "sucessfully" at the end...D

[Silver]

Why can't he just have them landscape my yard?


Why do you think God created Mexicans?

[jimmydean]

I think the best bet is to pray the doctor can help. Outside of that, it's a lost cause.

[SlapheadMofo]

Why do you think God created Mexicans?


Needed a good market for those little dashboard statues of the VM?

[BMXman]

Then let's party.



first round is on me :D

[jaydee]

it's funny how the people that were saved by prayer never make the news

Because there are exactly zero provable cases of that happening.

[FriedRys]

It's not the parents fault, they shouldn't be blaming themselves as they did when they said that they didn't have enough faith. They had enough faith to let their kid die from an easily treated disease and that must take A LOT of faith. Problem is they had faith in the wrong god. Stupid worshippers of a false deity.:plthumbsdown:

[ire]

The parents of the kid in Oregon are being charged

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23882698/