IronHorse 2009 - no DW Link!

[Santa Maria]

Found something shockin on another forum:

DW from Ibis forum: " Iron Horse's dw-link license will terminate after the 2008 model year, and I moved on from consulting on high end development work for IH in June 2007"

"Well, there may be a Sunday, but it won't be one that I designed, and it won't be using dw-link. There will however, be at least one dw-link downhill bike on the market.. just not a Sunday"

[Eren]

you posted 1 minute after me so you must delete this! :)

edit: takin from my thread

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4016885#post4016885 post 18 for evidence

[Santa Maria]

yeah man, SORRY i was just a little to slow

[Eren]

yeah man, SORRY i was just a little to slow

im kiddin, ill delete mine

[FrontRangeDH]

Sam Hill on Syndicate for 2009? But I doubt Iron Horse will let him go.

Split Pivot Sunday?

[jvnixon]

Yea i can't wait to see Dave's new dw-link dh bike, he knows what he's doing.

[FrontRangeDH]

Has he made a Split Pivot DH bike yet? I see him doing that before another DW link. It's weird that Iron Horse and DW have already planned to severe ties for 2009 with it barely being 2008, sounds fishy to me

[Ian Collins]

i've been holding my tongue about that for months.....finally someone else spilled the beans.....2008 and 2009 will be interesting years in many regards

[Dogboy]

From what I have seen there will be DW-link IH bikes in 2009. There are a couple of models gone, but the Sunday, MkIII, and 6point seem to carry over for the 2009 year model. I suppose it could change, but that is pretty current info. Either way I am bummed to see IH and DW parting ways, but the way things have worked out IH is set to fade back into relative obscurity.

[Loozinskin]

I am officially depressed.


...Wait, I'll still have my Sunday Factory to ride for at least a couple more years.

oh well...

[pinkshirtphotos]

i here ironhorse will have single pivots again similar to an orange and morewood ;)

[dhkid]

i dont think this will mean that IH will drop the sunday as we know it right now. they might still be producing it.

what this most probably means is that dw has something new up his sleeves, and is modifying the dw link a bit, so that what we know now as the dw-link now wont be a dw link in 09? maybe something along those lines?

[Tetreault]

i just want dw himself to make a post in this thread so we can get some real confirmation

[Eren]

i just want dw himself to make a post in this thread so we can get some real confirmation

look at my previous post, he made this post

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4016885#post4016885 post 18 for evidence

[big-ted]

Wow. RM's going to go into meltdown....

[pinkshirtphotos]

NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! omgz my bike is outdated must sell and get something new !!!!

['size]

look at my previous post, he made this post

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4016885#post4016885 post 18 for evidence

as well as this:
mtbr link (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=376911)

[FrontRangeDH]

I think if the Sunday goes away, we may have a DH bike industry Great Depression cause everyone will be crying, except Sam Hill who will continue to win World Cups just on a Yakuza

[djamgils]

owk so the license of IH will expire, but if they wanted they should be able to extend that license? So or dw didn't want to or IH. If IH didn't want to they are absolutely crazy because I think that because of dw (and sam hill) they had a succesful company.
without the dw link and sam hill there wouldn't be such a hype around IH.

[General Lee]

wow. . . i guess i was under the impression that this was old news and pretty well known since the end of the summer. I have to say i'm impressed it took someone 4 months to finally spill the beans here though.

There's a lot more to the Iron Horse story than just DW parting ways, and none of it sounds too promising . . .

i heard rumor of who is making the DW bike in '09, and if true it's going to make a lot of people very happy;)

[FrontRangeDH]

Is it Intense? Are they leasing another patent, doubt it with the release of the M6? I doubt its Specialized, Santa Cruz, Rocky Mountain, Turner (wait it could be Turner, but doubt it), Trek, or Transition, so who does that leave? General Lee any clues?

[MtnbikeMike]

Wow. RM's going to go into meltdown....

:panic: :panic: :panic:

[THRILLSEEKA]

Big whoop, another trend bike gets surpassed by technology. WTF is the big deal? Everyone needs to just take a deep breath, take off their Monster decaled-to-death helmets and their Monster jerseys and step back and look at their bikes. It's just a bike. it's like every other bike. Wheels go up and down, chains slap, cranks spin, handlebars wiggle. Huh...so what's all the hype about? Anyone ever actually WATCH a Sunday rip down a course? Most of them look like they stutter along like a hardtail to begin with, and it's not like there's seven hacks on Sundays all waiting at the bottom for better riders on "lesser" bikes.
If Sam Hill started winning on a fugging Walmart Mongoose, you'd all be lined up behind him in the 10-Items-Or-Less asile waiting for a price check from a plump goth chick with acne and no prom date.

Maybe what you guys need to be doing is worshipping the bike Sam LEARNED on, cuz that's what made him fast, not a bicycle suspension linkage design.

[General Lee]

Is it Intense? Are they leasing another patent, doubt it with the release of the M6? I doubt its Specialized, Santa Cruz, Rocky Mountain, Turner (wait it could be Turner, but doubt it), Trek, or Transition, so who does that leave? General Lee any clues?

No, out of fear of DW's wiffle ball pitching skills my lips are sealed.

[General Lee]

Big whoop, another trend bike gets surpassed by technology. WTF is the big deal? Everyone needs to just take a deep breath, take off their Monster decaled-to-death helmets and their Monster jerseys and step back and look at their bikes. It's just a bike. it's like every other bike. Wheels go up and down, chains slap, cranks spin, handlebars wiggle. Huh...so what's all the hype about? Anyone ever actually WATCH a Sunday rip down a course? Most of them look like they stutter along like a hardtail to begin with, and it's not like there's seven hacks on Sundays all waiting at the bottom for better riders on "lesser" bikes.
If Sam Hill started winning on a fugging Walmart Mongoose, you'd all be lined up behind him in the 10-Items-Or-Less asile waiting for a price check from a plump goth chick with acne and no prom date.

Maybe what you guys need to be doing is worshipping the bike Sam LEARNED on, cuz that's what made him fast, not a bicycle suspension linkage design.

you seemed to have missed the point entirely. and while many a hack might make the bike look like it handles like a hardtail, under someone who actually knows how to ride (and more specifically, how to race) it's pretty hard to deny that it is an example of one of the best performing combinations of suspension performance and bike design to date. Hate all you want, but it's no small occasion when arguabley the most popular and one of the best performing bikes ever available is discontinued at the peak of its demand.:stosh:

And when the rest of the World Wide Cycle (IH's parent company)story comes out i think you'll see that there is a lot more involved than technology simply changing hands and that it is, in fact, a pretty big deal.

[bizutch]

owk so the license of IH will expire, but if they wanted they should be able to extend that license? So or dw didn't want to or IH. If IH didn't want to they are absolutely crazy because I think that because of dw (and sam hill) they had a succesful company.
without the dw link and sam hill there wouldn't be such a hype around IH.

You may want to consider that Dave's brain is usually bored with whatever he is doing at any given moment because wheels in his head have moved onto the next idea!

I've met plenty of guys who aren't concerned with growing a single thing...just birthing.


Dave Weagle is MTB's equivalent of a Nobel Prize sperm donor. Planting brilliant seed but he ain't gonna be attending your barmitzva!

[ChrisRobin]

Wow. RM's going to go into meltdown....

Yeah, where else can I get my daily dose of multiple "look how light I can make my Sunday" posts?

[FrontRangeDH]

Yeah, where else can I get my daily dose of multiple "look how light I can make my Sunday" posts?

I heard rumors that Hill wont be running drivetrains at a few races this year for races where pedaling isn't necessary in order to get it under 30. he is just having a bottom bracket shell that he can thread his pedals into. Also heard that Iron Horse will be making a Sunday with an integrated seatpost mast so you dont have to run those pesky and heavy seatposts....discuss

[dw]

owk so the license of IH will expire, but if they wanted they should be able to extend that license? So or dw didn't want to or IH. If IH didn't want to they are absolutely crazy because I think that because of dw (and sam hill) they had a succesful company.
without the dw link and sam hill there wouldn't be such a hype around IH.

The decision to move on was completely mine, and it was a very tough decision at that.

I still remain friends with Stew Barnett the owner of WWCS, and have many friends in the company still. We built something special together over the past 6 years, and you just don't forget that over night.

The timing was right for me to move on and dw-link was part of that move for me. I wish Iron Horse and all of my friends at Iron Horse the best of luck moving forward.

Dave

[luiz carlos]

So.....We will have to wait till September/October to see wich new brand will use the DW link?!

[FrontRangeDH]

I would guess something will happen before then, I would guess there will be protos out this summer/fall

[SteezyWeezy]

depression ensues :blah:

at least there will be a new bike for everyone at my mountain to have

[pelo]

Does Sam come along on this move? Isn´t 2008 the last year with IH on that contract, for Sam? Hehe...

It´s a great bike, but there´ve been some issues that are very annoying for a normal person who pays a lot of many for his dh-bike. On the other hand, most dh-bikes seem to have their issues and the Sunday may get a little more of that critisism because of it´s popularity.

I look forward to future designs. One great designer and one big company - it´s easy to see they walk different ways?

[luiz carlos]

Yeah....2008 is the last year of the contract with Hill an IH.....hummm...interesting!

[DHJUNKIE]

the world is now ending...

[wannabeabonedoc]

Who is Sam Hill?:busted:

Dave, best of luck in your future as I'm sure you'll be greatly benefited from whatever venture you decide to pursue.

[FCLinder]

Dave, good luck with the move man. Is E-13 coming out with a bike now? Keep doing what you do best!!!!

Cecil

[pinkshirtphotos]

i know whats happening but i wont say :)


psst the bike is going to be called a saturday

[Brian HCM#1]

Now they're going to need extra bandwidth for the classified section.

It will read..........

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/BrianHCM123/sundayclassifieds.jpg

[pinkshirtphotos]

mine is already up in the classified section ;)


eren twas a joke

[Eren]

mine is already up in the classified section ;)

eren twas a joke

ha! i deleted my comment about 5 seconds after i posted it, your a fast reader!

[klunky]

I thought there was odd things happening with Iron Horse when they pulled the plug on the Yakuza line up in the USA.

[jsg04]

Maybe a Pivot DH bike in the future.

[syadasti]

Maybe a Pivot DH bike in the future.

I doubt it, Titus' FR/DH line wasn't very popular so I don't know if Pivot is going to move in that direction very quickly. How about Turner:think:

[FrontRangeDH]

oh my god, sundays arent cool anymore?! Does that mean Boxxers and Juicys and Maxxis suck now too? Oh Crap what am I supposed to ride now? AAAHHHHH

[P.T.W]

I was thinking later tho
hmmmmmmm duz the word ORION ring any bells?

[demo 9]

brign this to pinkbike to decrese the grom population by 80%

[Loozinskin]

I think if the Sunday goes away, we may have a DH bike industry Great Depression cause everyone will be crying, except Sam Hill who will continue to win World Cups just on a Yakuza


Except that IH is'nt making Yakuza's anymore either

[FrontRangeDH]

Except that IH is'nt making Yakuza's anymore either

Just cause they arent coming to America doesnt mean they arent being made any longer. Check out the link to the international website for Iron Horse

http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/bikes/yakuza/yakuza-kumicho.php

2008 Yakuza Kumicho

Keep in mind Hill is Australian and therefore rides an International bike

[SkullCrack]

Except that IH is'nt making Yakuza's anymore either

They are for everyone but the US. Click "International" on the first page of their website (http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/).

http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/images/bikes/photos/yakuzakumicho-0.jpg

[FrontRangeDH]

Geez man, we tied on that one, I think you win since you included the pic

[W4S]

Let me be the first to say that I think Dave should name his new company "Chuck Norris" because I won't buy a bike from "Weagle Bikes". Also, let me be the first to ask; Dave, if you need a sales manager, plz let me know where to send my resume. :busted::spam:

[ChrisKring]

It's surprising that this news was kept quiet for so long. I heard about it last May. That's why I was confused to see the 2008 Sundays.

You guys need to remember that DW is making a business decision here. Don't read any more into it than face value.

[S.K.C.]

It's surprising that this news was kept quiet for so long. I heard about it last May. That's why I was confused to see the 2008 Sundays.

You guys need to remember that DW is making a business decision here. Don't read any more into it than face value.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

:)

[Dogboy]

It's surprising that this news was kept quiet for so long. I heard about it last May. That's why I was confused to see the 2008 Sundays.

There are 2009 Sundays.

[ilfreerider]

there could be a 2009 sunday ,it just wont have dw suspension !

[S.K.C.]

Personally, I'm super stoked to see what Dave has in the works for his next DH rig.

No matter what, it's definitely gonna be sick.

[.Pit Steelers.]

So then what is all the Sundays about the bike it's self or Sam Hill the rider of the bike.

So if no DW link sunday everyone is going to ride waht ever the next DW Link bike is or...

Is everyone going to ride the bike Sam Hill rides even if it dont got the DW link.

[Santa Maria]

There are 2009 Sundays.

Can't wait to see them. After 5 years it is the right time for a new design anyway. As some of the the main DH companies (Santa, Intense, Turner) are out with new models, IH has to release something new too, to keep "competitve".

And if the 09 sunday will go back to a single pivot, that would not be so bad - thinking of other single pivot bikes (Orange etc.) that work extremly well. I personally think that the sunday is more than just the DW Link.

Can't wailt to hear a official IH statement.

Maybe Sam and Brandon will rock single pivots at Sea Otter:pirate2:

[Eren]

Can't wait to see them. After 5 years it is the right time for a new design anyway. As some of the the main DH companies (Santa, Intense, Turner) are out with new models, IH has to release something new too, to keep "competitve".

And if the 09 sunday will go back to a single pivot, that would not be so bad - thinking of other single pivot bikes (Orange etc.) that work extremly well. I personally think that the sunday is more than just the DW Link.

Can't wailt to hear a official IH statement.

Maybe Sam and Brandon will rock single pivots at Sea Otter:pirate2:

i doubt im, maybe around worlds time maybe. but im sure there going to take advantage of the dw link while they still can

[Eren]

There are 2009 Sundays.

lets see then!

[pelo]

The DW-link Sunday is a classic. A two-time worldchampion bike, available for the avaragejoe-rider.

[bizutch]

Can't wait to see them. After 5 years it is the right time for a new design anyway. As some of the the main DH companies (Santa, Intense, Turner) are out with new models, IH has to release something new too, to keep "competitve".



You do realize that you just named 3 companies who have not changed their suspension designs in any way shape or form in 5-8 years right?

Manipulating tubing and shaving grams does not a new "design" make. It's just advancing the same design.

[Damo]

So then what is all the Sundays about the bike it's self or Sam Hill the rider of the bike.

So if no DW link sunday everyone is going to ride waht ever the next DW Link bike is or...

Is everyone going to ride the bike Sam Hill rides even if it dont got the DW link.


I have headache...

Cheers.

[Santa Maria]

You do realize that you just named 3 companies who have not changed their suspension designs in any way shape or form in 5-8 years right?

Manipulating tubing and shaving grams does not a new "design" make. It's just advancing the same design.

correct, the suspension design is the same, but they made some serious geomerty changes and the look different too.

And they all market their new bikes as redesigned, anyway I love my sunday and my MkIII, lets see what happens and what the 09 Sunday will look like.

[bizutch]

correct, the suspension design is the same, but they made some serious geomerty changes and the look different too.

And they all market their new bikes as redesigned, anyway I love my sunday and my MkIII, lets see what happens and what the 09 Sunday will look like.

I'm just waiting on replaceable fenders and radiator shrouds to kit 'em out.

[spliffy]

Finaly the long time awaited death of Ironhorse. Cant say I am sad, as of Daves new creations I am sure they will top the last one. IronHorse on the other hand has plenty of their own problems as we all do, and will probaly be back to the run of the mill department store bikes they have been know for in the past. Now with k2 they will own that market, watch out Mongoose Iron Horse is back in the **** business.

[.Pit Steelers.]

I have headache...

Cheers.

Well i know that half the people on this site are obsessed with one or the other. What is it Sam Hill or the bike Sam was riding.

[bizutch]

finaly the long time comin death of ironhorse so stoked
and maybe a little but taller bb on the new bike Dave knows what he is doing and the knew bike will be kick as. IronHorse onthe other hand as plenty of their own problemsand will probaly be back to the run of the mill department store bikes. Now with k2 they will own that market watch out Mongoose Iron Horse is back in the **** business.

reading that gibberish hurt my skull...:plthumbsdown:

[sanjuro]

finaly the long time comin death of ironhorse so stoked
and maybe a little but taller bb on the new bike Dave knows what he is doing and the knew bike will be kick as. IronHorse onthe other hand as plenty of their own problemsand will probaly be back to the run of the mill department store bikes. Now with k2 they will own that market watch out Mongoose Iron Horse is back in the **** business.

Translation for Bizutch:

Ironhorse, a 2nd tier company thanks to the innovative DW-Link, will slip back to 3rd tier status after 2008.

[bent^biker]

Translation for Bizutch:

Ironhorse, a 2nd tier company thanks to the innovative DW-Link, will slip back to 3rd tier status after 2008.

agreed, they needed to stop selling their bikes next to k2s at wallmart and performance if they wanted to reamain where they are.

[Eren]

agreed, they needed to stop selling their bikes next to k2s at wallmart and performance if they wanted to reamain where they are.

performance, wallmart, same thing. :busted:


well ill be interested what the new bike with DW-link will be.
a DW-link dh bike thats not a sunday, definetly interested.

[Eren]

PS

http://www.pivotcycles.com/bikes.php

pivot cycles uses DW link.
just for the record, haha

[Santa Maria]

PS

http://www.pivotcycles.com/bikes.php

pivot cycles uses DW link.
just for the record, haha

these bikes look lame:plthumbsdown:

[caputo1989]

I look forward in seeing the new bike, Im due for a new bike soon. I hope it has the similar geometry, I never baught the Sunday because Sam rode it. I baught the bike because it felt right.
Good luck DW and IH.





And FrontRange, I respect your opinions, but make relevant posts.

[Santa Maria]

sounds promising to me:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=377092&page=2

[CBJ]

I can understand why people see the DW link area at IH as being a tough act to follow with the amount of success the bikes have had especially the Sunday.

Previously IH has also experience up and down times and a great deal of change in the focus and bikes.

I personally am looking forward to seeing what you have to offer and its always great to be positively surprised.

[bullcrew]

Lets see some sneak peaks!

[Santa Maria]

I find it funny that people think we're just going to go quietly, letting all the work we've done till this point just slip away.

On a side note, we will continue to support (ie:Pivot kits...etc) the bikes we've produced through their warranty periods and in most cases beyond.

I love my Sunday and MKIII, they work great and are designed with al ot of love (eg the cable rooting on the sunday or the right chainstay at the MKIII) but they are also designed around the DW Link. So its was quite strange to here the news.

But i am a IH loyal, so keep progressing and a lot of DW Sunday owners will switch to your new desing:clapping:

[William42]

split pivot?

[Total Heckler]

Wow. RM's going to go into meltdown....

hahaha

[no skid marks]

I hope DW has some time off between contracts so he can speak his mind more clearly instead of having possible red tape holding him back.
I wish him luck,but doubt he needs it.
Can't wait to see the new DW DH Rod.

[bizutch]

seeing as DW is not known to burn his bridges, don't count on it ever.

[ChrisKring]

seeing as DW is not known to burn his bridges, don't count on it ever.


Especially since I think he is already working with another oem.

[MDJ]

So, should I wait until fall to buy a Sunday Team for $50, or wait until next spring for the $7k IBIS full-carbon DW-link DH bike?

[MtnbikeMike]

So, should I wait until fall to buy a Sunday Team for $50, or wait until next spring for the $7k IBIS full-carbon DW-link DH bike?

Tough choice, I'd wait until you find out what Sam's riding.

[pelo]

Haha...

[bent^biker]

split pivot?

no, that is owned by trek

[dw]

no, that is owned by trek

LOL, news to me!

That's a pretty funny joke..:clapping:

[Eren]

no, that is owned by trek

stephen, what are you talking about.

your smarter than that! :busted:

[TGR]

Tough choice, I'd wait until you find out what Sam's riding.

sam hill rides fo' ibis now?

thanks for crushing my dreams of owning a sam hill signature ironponny, now I need an ibis



(yes I was joking...)

[bdamschen]

I don't get the whole Ibis DH bike or Pivot DH bike that people are throwing out there. It seems to me that the announcement was that the dw link was going somewhere new that couldn't be disclosed yet.

Ibis and Pivot are already known licensees of the dw link.

[Cave Dweller]

DW said it would make alot of people on here happy.

I would put my money on morewood or sinister. The company would probably be single pivot based looking at moving into virtual piviot setups.

Turner has said before they are not interested in dw-link (few years ago), but he has said big things are planned for 2009. A DW-link turner DH would be sick and i would buy one straight up.

Intense have just redesigned the M3, don't think Giant would use it, same with specialized and santa cruz. Yeti has the whole rail thing and has spent alot of money on it so i don't think they would go DW link.

[FlipFantasia]

won't someone please think of the fanboys?!

[bent^biker]

LOL, news to me!

That's a pretty funny joke..:clapping:

I thought that was the whole abp debate, my bad :busted:

[norbar]

DW said it would make alot of people on here happy.

I would put my money on morewood or sinister. The company would probably be single pivot based looking at moving into virtual piviot setups.

Turner has said before they are not interested in dw-link (few years ago), but he has said big things are planned for 2009. A DW-link turner DH would be sick and i would buy one straight up.

Intense have just redesigned the M3, don't think Giant would use it, same with specialized and santa cruz. Yeti has the whole rail thing and has spent alot of money on it so i don't think they would go DW link.

Maybe Orange? Cuz there is some info on the new morewood and 225 is still a secret. Or wouldn't he deal with euro companies?

[RaID]

Maybe Orange? Cuz there is some info on the new morewood and 225 is still a secret. Or wouldn't he deal with euro companies?

Id put my money on Orange or another Euro based company that will want to enter the US market strongly with a new design

[toodles]

What's the harm in telling us who's using the design next year?

[CBJ]

DW said it would make alot of people on here happy.

I would put my money on morewood or sinister. The company would probably be single pivot based looking at moving into virtual piviot setups.

Turner has said before they are not interested in dw-link (few years ago), but he has said big things are planned for 2009. A DW-link turner DH would be sick and i would buy one straight up.

Intense have just redesigned the M3, don't think Giant would use it, same with specialized and santa cruz. Yeti has the whole rail thing and has spent alot of money on it so i don't think they would go DW link.

There should be a Litter mag competition to guess the new setup.

I have looked into my strategic management books and they told me that DW should build the bike for his own company. That is at least my best guess.

I fear the new DW DH bike will be super sweet and I have to buy it even though I still love my 2005 Sunday Factory.

[ChrisKring]

There should be a Litter mag competition to guess the new setup.

I have looked into my strategic management books and they told me that DW should build the bike for his own company. That is at least my best guess.

I fear the new DW DH bike will be super sweet and I have to buy it even though I still love my 2005 Sunday Factory.


The only argument against your hypothesis is that it would put Evil in direct competition with companies that buy E13 components. I think that was the original reason why the Evil DH bike was not produced years ago.

It will probably be just a guessing game until interbike or when someone get's DW drunk enough at the US Open. :lighten:

[Socket]

What's the harm in telling us who's using the design next year?

quoted for posterity...

[MtnbikeMike]

Maybe it will be Evil Bikes :p

[S.K.C.]

The only argument against your hypothesis is that it would put Evil in direct competition with companies that buy E13 components. I think that was the original reason why the Evil DH bike was not produced years ago.

It will probably be just a guessing game until interbike or when someone get's DW drunk enough at the US Open. :lighten:


O.K., O.K. - so maybe starting off the night with a round of Jager shots wasn't such a good idea... :biggrin: to be honest I was so crushed that I couldn't even last a full round of Quarters with Jonas and the e.thirteen crew... and with Walsh handing me beers as fast as I could drink them - that was NOT helping my situation either. :biggrin: That guy is awesome.

Were you there that night? I was buying shots for a TON of people - I'm pretty sure Gn'R was one of them... and some chick that looked like she just walked out of a Whitesnake video...

[CBJ]

The only argument against your hypothesis is that it would put Evil in direct competition with companies that buy E13 components. I think that was the original reason why the Evil DH bike was not produced years ago.

Well with everybody putting out copies of the E13 products I would rather put my long term plans on a complete bike company. Plus I am sure you could run both companies independently or sell E13 to raise cash for the new company.

And then one day E13 will produce their magic pedal :lighten:

[Cave Dweller]

I fear the new DW DH bike will be super sweet and I have to buy it even though I still love my 2005 Sunday Factory.

If was made by turner i would get it, but mainly because i really like the way turner design their bikes and the attention to detail, not to mention kick arse support and old frame trade in deals etc. With weagles suspension design input and turners design skills mated together would make one sweet ride.

Not sure about Orange, do they even have a US distributer these days?

[nh dude]

im surprised no one has mentioned a gear box yet

[Tetreault]

im really curious as to who the new company will be that licenses te dw link.. he said it would make people happy, what other companies do munky's drool over these days besides IH

[Demomonkey]

Its funny, I was talking with friends over the Xmas break about what would be happening with the Sunday. Must have smelled something in the wind or something.

I will be sorry to see the DW Sunday disappear from the new bike offerings of IH bikes as I was looking forward to seeing further evolution of the bike, but at the same time I'm always stoked to see what new offerings companies have.

Where the new DW DH bike comes from will be exciting to see and what IH puts out to replace the DW Sunday will be great to see as well.

IH must have benefited immensely from an engineering perspective from working with DW. Compare what the SGS looked like compared to likes of the Demo 9 from specialized which were on offer at the same time. The difference in quality was galaxies apart. Now IH have got a reputation as a quality manufacturer. Granted that the Sunday took a couple of years to iron out the bugs (no pun intended) but you cant say that things will go backwards in the quality department just because DW leaves.

I was stoked to see Pivot Cycles make an appearance, but at the same time a little disappointed to read that their offerings will be restricted to trail bikes (for now). Especially because their frame sets do not appear to have ISCG or ISCG05 mounts and their geo is a little too XC for me.

However I wouldn't be surprised to see Pivot build a DH bike in the future but I don't think it was what DW hinted at in his earlier posts. Perhaps they might be better building the Sam Hill Super D type bike(??) that just about everyone I know would kill for.

I cant see IBIS building a DW DH as thats just so far from where they appear to be positioned in the market. I'm not sure the market (aka you lot) is ready for a full carbon DH bike either.

I would like to see Turner get on the DW bandwagon. The reputation for quality they have is legendary. The combination of this and the brilliance of the DW system would surely benefit both Dave's.

What ever happens, its all good.

[Bikerpunk241]

I cant see IBIS building a DW DH as thats just so far from where they appear to be positioned in the market. I'm not sure the market (aka you lot) is ready for a full carbon DH bike either.


What about BCDs and Lahars? ;)

[isabbisr]

O.K., O.K. - so maybe starting off the night with a round of Jager shots wasn't such a good idea... :biggrin: to be honest I was so crushed that I couldn't even last a full round of Quarters with Jonas and the e.thirteen crew... and with Walsh handing me beers as fast as I could drink them - that was NOT helping my situation either. :biggrin: That guy is awesome.

Were you there that night? I was buying shots for a TON of people - I'm pretty sure Gn'R was one of them... and some chick that looked like she just walked out of a Whitesnake video...
Haha, yeah I was one of them. You passed like 15 Jager shots right over me without spilling... until the last one haha. You made up for it by giving some shots though, so it's all good. You were super wasted though, it was funny.

[Demomonkey]

What about BCDs and Lahars? ;)

I dont see Lahar's or BCD's on the hill. Do you?

Respect to both of them, they are both well cool bikes. But my point remains, the market aint ready for them.

[no skid marks]

A Turner would indeed be cool. A gearbox even cooler. I don't think anyone mentioned Kona yet.
Lahar would be on the hill with a large financial backer,I'm guessing the same could be said for BCDs. No large brands have the Carbon knowledge or production set ups to bother investing in it, Especially when everyone still buys ally frames so eagerly. Maybe GT could have another go at it.
I'm putting a 100 points on Kona.

[Wrench]

It funny seeing all the speculation going on here. But I know that a good number of people on here know exactly what is going on. But are not telling! Don't think the DW linkage is going anywhere but to the next level in its next version. As for Hill, I bet he continues to ride a DW bike after his IH days.

[dw]

The only argument against your hypothesis is that it would put Evil in direct competition with companies that buy E13 components. I think that was the original reason why the Evil DH bike was not produced years ago.

You are right on with that one CK. As long as Evil Bikes is under my watch there will be no full suspension bikes. EVER. We've put zero effort into growing or diversifying the brand for the last few years, its always been about having jumping bikes that were fun to ride and that's pretty much it. e.thirteen is our passion and we have a lot more to share there.

It will probably be just a guessing game until interbike or when someone get's DW drunk enough at the US Open. :lighten:

hah! my lips are sealed :cool:

[Cant Climb]

IH must have benefited immensely from an engineering perspective from working with DW.

Biggest understatement in the history of RM. Without DW IH would still be purveyors of stamped Taiwan junk. Luck brought DW to IH, they should put a statue of DW in front of their building......a big one.

I wonder if its Trek.....instead of fighting about the Split_Pivot patent why not just hire DW.

[Salami]

Turner has said before they are not interested in dw-link (few years ago), but he has said big things are planned for 2009. A DW-link turner DH would be sick and i would buy one straight up.





A Turner DW link would be the ****in' ****!!!! Not sure why but my gut is saying Turner is the company.

[bizutch]

hah! my lips are sealed :cool:

Hey you old codger...you owe a visit to NC since you skipped out on me at the last National. You've never had southern hospitality til us boys in Asheville take you out and about!!!!

And once you're here...you ain't leavin' til I get some secrets out of you. Mostly ones about Tobler's passion for spandex....

[dante]

It will probably be just a guessing game until interbike or when someone get's DW drunk enough at the US Open. :lighten:

All it took was a couple of mojitos at interbike and dw spilled the beans on braking forces (http://kumicho.zenfolio.com/p876163110/?photo=h2960877A#694191994), so I'd start there and if he still resists, resort to top-shelf margaritas. he'll crack in no time... :busted:

[bushrider]

Respected as one of the best builders in the industry.
They collaborated with go-ride to create the el-cuervo.
So they have a history of collaborating with outside companies for designing their DH bike.

Just a guess.

I'm hoping its going to be carbon with a gearbox.

[sriracha]

i just hope it's not morewood or orange...keep it U.S. based. dealing with over seas bike companies is a royal PITA.

and also, i hope it's not turner...pffff....homer foolz and their "any tips on preventing scuff marks?" mentallity. last thing i want to do is become one of them.:monkeydance:

good luck DW!!! can't wait to see what's next for the linkage!

[General Lee]

Respected as one of the best builders in the industry.
They collaborated with go-ride to create the el-cuervo.
So they have a history of collaborating with outside companies for designing their DH bike.

Just a guess.

I'm hoping its going to be carbon with a gearbox.


From some of the conversations i had with him in the Spring, I'm under the impression DW isn't pursuing the gearbox idea very much anymore; his reasons being based on some very basic but sound logic.

[dw]

Hey you old codger...you owe a visit to NC since you skipped out on me at the last National. You've never had southern hospitality til us boys in Asheville take you out and about!!!!

And once you're here...you ain't leavin' til I get some secrets out of you. Mostly ones about Tobler's passion for spandex....

LOL, I know Butch, I really do. This year, I PROMISE!

[dante]

From some of the conversations i had with him in the Spring, I'm under the impression DW isn't pursuing the gearbox idea very much anymore; his reasons being based on some very basic but sound logic.

a gearbox = 11 on a guitar amp... :rofl:

http://www.ilike2rock.net/articles/spinaltap/amp_11.jpg

[Jim Mac]

a gearbox = 11 on a guitar amp... :rofl:

http://www.ilike2rock.net/articles/spinaltap/amp_11.jpg

Well, 11 is 1 louder! :clapping:

[davet]

I wonder if its Trek.....instead of fighting about the Split_Pivot patent why not just hire DW.

I've heard similar grumblings about Cove bikes, particularly with a new model that was shown at Interbike but not released yet due to some specific similarities to a certain DW link....further, Cove's lead designer Brian Kelly, the guy responsible for the Shocker suspension design is rumored to have left Cove.

Although this could just be feeding the rumour mill......

[bizutch]

....the Shocker suspension design is rumored to have left Cove.

Although this could just be feeding the rumour mill......

I can't say what company may own the rights...but I can give you a hint:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/Blue03sidude/DSC02915.jpg

or...it could be a government project now, which would explain all the secrecy:
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/shocker-35838.jpg

[pelo]

That´s very milky. I like it.

[Tetreault]

companies like morewood and orange seem like they would not be interested in a dw styled bike, they have pushed the single pivot pride thing for quite awhile. specialized seems out because they have fsr, turner just made the new dhr so i doubt that they are looking to make something else so soon. when i think about it norco could be coming to the end of their fsr lease from specialized but it doesnt seem likely to me that they would be moving on. yeti has the rail system, giant has maestro but maybe their infringing on patents with the dw so may just be licensing it from them? cruz has vpp, i dont think cove has the money to spend on it....

so this leaves me to believe that the only possible companies out there that need a new design and have the funds and exposure to support such a decision are kona and Cannondale

and on the optimistic side, trek and sinister perhaps?

[General Lee]

I can't say what company may own the rights...but I can give you a hint:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/Blue03sidude/DSC02915.jpg


Here's a top-secret testing pic.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2309/22216849342be90b78aeozz4.jpg

[Tom Church]

Scott? They can't sell a some of their bikes in the US right now because of the patent fight with Specalized...It would be a good opportunity for them to get back in the game here in the USA.

Tom

[sriracha]

kona? morewood? orange? scott? turner? jamis? norco? huffy? turner? cannondale?


man, i'd be bummed if any of the above mentioned companies roll the DW*link....but then again, if somebody told me back in 2000 that iron horse would eventually build a top 5 DH bike, i would've laughed my ass off.

my point is, i don't think it matters so much who the company is, with DW consulting on design and engineering...the bike will be a contender.

[Heckled]

My moneys on Mountain Cycle or Kona...

[LukeD]

honda gotta be honda...






:imstupid:

[Spokompton]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/Blue03sidude/DSC02915.jpg

I see the shocker. Only one company makes a shocker.

Cove!

Actually I don't care either way, I'm a Maestro man... :):poster_oops:

[Tetreault]

You are right on with that one CK. As long as Evil Bikes is under my watch there will be no full suspension bikes. EVER. We've put zero effort into growing or diversifying the brand for the last few years, its always been about having jumping bikes that were fun to ride and that's pretty much it

whats the deal with evil anyways, are you guys still producing frames? whats this i keep hearing about the imperial being discontinued? is it making a come back at some point.

wow i remember the days when i went to my lbs and drooled just looking at the red imperial they had on the wall.

[pinkshirtphotos]

Here's a top-secret testing pic.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2309/22216849342be90b78aeozz4.jpg

wait you mean to say THAT is the new bike.... crap well if you want to see spy shots shoot me a pm.

[caputo1989]

I really hope it is not Cannondale. If so i will for sure be calling up Lance & Chris.

[Damo]

I'm willing to put my hard cash (and by that I mean RM Credits) down on that being an all-new Foes '09 WC machine.

Remember this post my friends and heap the adoration upon me when I am proven correct.

[kOlsen]

DamoDH, I'm with you on that one

[TGR]

I'm willing to put my hard cash (and by that I mean RM Credits) down on that being an all-new Foes '09 WC machine.

Remember this post my friends and heap the adoration upon me when I am proven correct.

foes will actually be building a race bike?

[xy9ine]

I'm willing to put my hard cash (and by that I mean RM Credits) down on that being an all-new Foes '09 WC machine.


too small potatoes, imo. its gonna be someone with some $$ & ability to make an impact on the scene.

[Damo]

too small potatoes, imo. its gonna be someone with some $$ & ability to make an impact on the scene.


I'll bet you 1000 credits and 5x shots of rep...

[1soulrider]

A Turner DW link would be the ****in' ****!!!! Not sure why but my gut is saying Turner is the company.

It won't be Turner.

[MtnbikeMike]

Well with the idea that this was a business decision, perhaps there was a higher bidder than IH? Knowing that, it doesn't seem like many companies would have $$ for that besides Spec, C'dale, and Trek. The only logical of those 3 would be Trek. However, DW said people would be excited to see this new bike, and with the way Trek is seen by most(cooties, etc), that knocks them out too. I'm at a loss.

[csr1]

For give me but I googled DW and nothing came up about bike stuff.


Who is DW?

[MtnbikeMike]

Who is DW?

Basicaly god. Dave Weagle, the man behind the DW-link.

[Eren]

For give me but I googled DW and nothing came up about bike stuff.


Who is DW?

:plthumbsdown:

:imstupid:

[MMike]

I bet he gives up bikes altogether and starts designing helicopter parts.....

[Zark]

Its gotta be Kona, no one else needs a suspension design as bad as they do ;)

[csr1]

Basicaly god. Dave Weagle, the man behind the DW-link.


Oh! That Guy! I have seen him once, I felt lucky.

[syadasti]

I bet he gives up bikes altogether and starts designing helicopter parts.....

New Bell Helicopter DH bike :huh:

[MMike]

Its gotta be Kona, no one else needs a suspension design as bad as they do ;)


So Weagle is the Mary Poppins of the bike world? Goes from company to company helping those in need....

Or maybe more like Michael Landon
http://www.marianland.com/visionbest/H71899D.jpg

[ChrisKring]

I bet he gives up bikes altogether and starts designing helicopter parts.....

I doubt it. I think he previously worked on aircraft parts. There is way more money in aerospace and automotive engineering. However, there is way more daily BS that doesn't involve engineering. I applaud DW for being able to support himself working on something that he likes and being able to provide a place for others to work.

[Zark]

...Or maybe more like Michael Landon


You know it!:clapping:

[Joey]

How about Independent Fabrications? I saw a cool rendition of the DW-link on an IF frame while thumbing through the new MBA at the store yesterday.

DH bikes aren't really their thing for sure but I do remember a really sweet 4X frame I had from them a while back so who knows? Definitely regret selling that frame though :(

Edit: eh, prolly not. I think their DW-link is the Tungsten Electrode and will most likely be crazy in price (and quality too no doubt)

[someguy]

Iron horse is in trouble. They are charging too much for the bikes. Virtually the same bike was almost $2000 less a few seasons ago. It is a good bike but you can build any custom DH rig for the price of a Sunday WC. DW has plenty of other good designs and ideas. Fallow him not IH.

[CBJ]

How about Independent Fabrications? I saw a cool rendition of the DW-link on an IF frame while thumbing through the new MBA at the store yesterday.

DH bikes aren't really their thing for sure but I do remember a really sweet 4X frame I had from them a while back so who knows? Definitely regret selling that frame though :(

Edit: eh, prolly not. I think their DW-link is the Tungsten Electrode and will most likely be crazy in price (and quality too no doubt)

Can't see IF producing an DH bike but what did happen to the IF bike. Did it ever go on sale. Nice bike for sure

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/163_6305.jpg

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/163_6304.jpg

Pictures from Interbike 2004 from Bikemagic.com.

[Mc.Dub]

I was looking through the dw-link website and then onto IF and IBIS, IF doesn't have anything on the site about the bike that I can find. But they are listed on the dw-link page. So who knows what?

[SylentK]

Isn't IF the bike company that has like 10 owners? I remember seeing some finance show that went to diff businesses to help them out, and if I remember right, IF was one of them. One of their problems was the fact it had 10 owners.

How'd you like to be their employee that got told 10 different times you used the wrong cover page on your TPS report? Hahaha (Office Space joke)

[RD3]

The Indy Fab Tungsten Electrode never went into production. Though there are a few protos out there including a steel one that that is more like a dj / ds bike. The main problem with the frames was that the Ventana made rear ends kept cracking, amongst other issues. I think the Indy Fab guys are happy making hardtails and road bikes.

Can't see IF producing an DH bike but what did happen to the IF bike. Did it ever go on sale. Nice bike for sure

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/163_6305.jpg

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/163_6304.jpg

[RD]

Isn't IF the bike company that has like 10 owners? I remember seeing some finance show that went to diff businesses to help them out, and if I remember right, IF was one of them. One of their problems was the fact it had 10 owners.

How'd you like to be their employee that got told 10 different times you used the wrong cover page on your TPS report? Hahaha (Office Space joke)

collectives and cooperatives are incredibly common, especially in cycling. i will not get into the various arguments that can be made for or against such structures in society, but they seem to be quite fruitful in the cycling world.

[SylentK]

collectives and cooperatives are incredibly common, especially in cycling. i will not get into the various arguments that can be made for or against such structures in society, but they seem to be quite fruitful in the cycling world.

I totally agree. My previous post was not in critique of IF's operating/managing model, but more of a statement (and question) of fact. That and the ever-present desire to quote Office Space.

I'd love to talk more about the effectiveness of a coop biz model and the history of IF, but that's getting a bit off topic...

[RD]

I totally agree. My previous post was not in critique of IF's operating/managing model, but more of a statement (and question) of fact. That and the ever-present desire to quote Office Space.

I'd love to talk more about the effectiveness of a coop biz model and the history of IF, but that's getting a bit off topic...


haha, oh man. sorry I've had a long day and didn't catch the reference. I love talking about social sciences, it's often proves hard to find calm people to talk to though. shoto me a PM sometime!

now where is my stapler? :)

[[Tha]Shovla]

how long do we have to wait to post an 08 sunday in the "Old and Obscure suspension designs" thread :)

[THRILLSEEKA]

Oh...about an hour.

[skinny mike]

this thread is e-speculation at it's finest.

[THRILLSEEKA]

Hey...anyone notice the two Stickied threads at the top of the DH Forums page...? "Spambots attacking" and "tuning the DW link!"
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[CarlE]

Iron horse is in trouble. They are charging too much for the bikes. Virtually the same bike was almost $2000 less a few seasons ago. It is a good bike but you can build any custom DH rig for the price of a Sunday WC. DW has plenty of other good designs and ideas. Fallow him not IH.

Have you compared our pricing to that of our large companies, say like Specialized? If you do you'll see that our pricing is inline, if not a little lower, with other companies.

[THRILLSEEKA]

Hey Carl, nice to see you guys on here defending yourselves. No one's really seemed to have caught on to my bitter sarcasm yet. I think it's funny that a few days ago Ironhorse rulled the planet and everyone on it, suddenly a suspension design change comes about, and everyone jumps ship and leaves their "beloved company" treading water alone. So much for faith! Doesn't even sound like they're interested in seeing what you guys come up with!
Just to clarify, I don't ride IH so this doesn't bother me either way, just hate trends, but moreso the people who follow them blindly.
I wish you guys the best and curious to see what's in store... I LOVE seeing new bikes!

[davet]

this thread is e-speculation at it's finest.

Umm, the entire internet is e-speculation at it's finest.

[CBJ]

Hey Carl, nice to see you guys on here defending yourselves. No one's really seemed to have caught on to my bitter sarcasm yet. I think it's funny that a few days ago Ironhorse rulled the planet and everyone on it, suddenly a suspension design change comes about, and everyone jumps ship and leaves their "beloved company" treading water alone. So much for faith! Doesn't even sound like they're interested in seeing what you guys come up with!
Just to clarify, I don't ride IH so this doesn't bother me either way, just hate trends, but moreso the people who follow them blindly.
I wish you guys the best and curious to see what's in store... I LOVE seeing new bikes!

I don't think anybody comments on your IH post as they are as predictable as the posts you complain about. Also I don't know how I hate trends became more intelligent than I love the Sunday.

If you hate trends and people who follow them then make a thread about that in the Lounge - should be good fun for all of us.

[bizutch]

But can someone explain to me why Iron Horse told the budget DH racer to go take a hike in the US by getting rid of the Yakuza with identical geometry to the Sunday but a pricepoint that made sense for young or broke riders to get into the sport with good equipment and the right layout?

[davet]

So the other day I heard that I'll be able to buy a Norco Team DH with a DW link in the future....

[Zark]

Norco ehh?? Whats that all aboot? ;)

[Eren]

So the other day I heard that I'll be able to buy a Norco Team DH with a DW link in the future....

hmmmmm

[pelo]

I now see a Havoc-village.

[Percy]

Umm, the entire internet is e-speculation at it's finest.

Not quite the entire internet, some of it is still pron!:lighten:

[toodles]

From what I've heard from the local guys, IronHorse is going to have the same Sunday in 2009 for the international markets. The dw patent only covers the US, so the Yakuza will be the new US showpiece DH bike. Phew! I love my Sunday and am so looking forward to the 2009 models.


disclaimer: may have been written drunk as a **** stir

[DeafTrance]

Im not sure about that, I think dw might have a patent for the dw link in the European patent office. I recall reading somewhere that he applied for it but i dunno if they actually issued it to him. If dw did receive the patent from the european patent office then iron horse most likely wouldnt make any dw-link bikes for production after the liscense expires.

[gemini2k]

Have you compared our pricing to that of our large companies, say like Specialized? If you do you'll see that our pricing is inline, if not a little lower, with other companies.

http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/bikes/sunday/sunday-team.php#

http://www.mongoose.com/mtn/ProductDetails.html?id=2640&enc=mtn|

700 bucks more.....and worse spec :'(. And the goose has better geo and pedaling (IMHO)

Lets just be honest here....

[Team SpeeDH]

Im not sure about that, I think dw might have a patent for the dw link in the European patent office. I recall reading somewhere that he applied for it but i dunno if they actually issued it to him. If dw did receive the patent from the european patent office then iron horse most likely wouldnt make any dw-link bikes for production after the liscense expires.

Sounds about right at this point. If they're smart... they do whats needed to keep riders coming back and not try to fill the gaps with hype and products that dont live up to the name. Though I applaud their efforts thus far to support the racing scene... if only racing was as strong in the US as it is across the pond. :disgust1:

To me Slopesyle comps are the equal to what Nascar is for car racing but thats going off topic not thats its a bad or anything. :D

[two9errider]

Preface. I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if anyone has said this or not.

Iron Horse has the license through 2010. I was talking earlier tonight with a guy who races them and he seemed kinda pissed this rumor has spread so quickly. So tell your friends, they will have the sunday through 2010.

[ronan]

Preface. I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if anyone has said this or not.

Iron Horse has the license through 2010. I was talking earlier tonight with a guy who races them and he seemed kinda pissed this rumor has spread so quickly. So tell your friends, they will have the sunday through 2010.

i dont think dw has said anything like that

[Eren]

Preface. I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if anyone has said this or not.

Iron Horse has the license through 2010. I was talking earlier tonight with a guy who races them and he seemed kinda pissed this rumor has spread so quickly. So tell your friends, they will have the sunday through 2010.

i think Dave is more credible then your "sponsored" rider, seeing as how it directly relates with him. . . . . .

maybe you should have read the first page at least!

they may have the sunday. . . . but it wont have a DW link on it

[jvnixon]

Preface. I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if anyone has said this or not.

Iron Horse has the license through 2010.

Nope wrong. Ends 12/31/08 to my knowledge.

[Cant Climb]

Alot of stuff is changing at IH.
Not just the DW-Link patent.

[S.K.C.]

this thread is e-speculation at it's finest.

QUOTE of the thread... if not year.

:biggrin:

Since Dave is hard at work on something he's not going to say thing 1 about it until the time is right.

Everything that is floating around right now is folklore.

09' dw-link DH bike = Aurora


http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.jpg


Yeah, it probably exists - but no, there aren't any concrete details yet.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/CK_123/dw-skunkworks.jpg

:biggrin:

Be patient guys...

[Socket]

So the other day I heard that I'll be able to buy a Norco Team DH with a DW link in the future....

I heard something along the same lines hey... from a Norco distributor no less. Will be interesting!

[Tetreault]

I heard something along the same lines hey... from a Norco distributor no less. Will be interesting!

thats all we need, more groms riding norco's up north here:disgust1:

[toodles]

Be sweet if that was the case... Norco have a rep for nicely specc'ed bikes and a good price point.

[Jonny5]

Will be interesting to see, norco would gain a bunch of rep from this. Who told you steve?

[Santa Maria]

rumors, rumors, rumors......

Howeer, shoud'nt there be some prototypes around, if they go in production at the end of 08.

I have not seen any IH or Norco protos in the web, so where are they?

[Socket]

Will be interesting to see, norco would gain a bunch of rep from this. Who told you steve?

hahaha, officially nobody told me anything. Unofficially one farkin member, possibly named Yerek Dates, had perhaps seen/done/said something implying that Norco will be using a different linkage next year. Maybe someone suggested it to him and he responded something like "who told you that?!"...

Seriously though - I haven't heard anything rock solid at all, but things are definitely pointing that way. Long story short, I personally believe that's the way things are probably going... I could be proven wrong since nothing is confirmed but we'll see hey.

[davet]

rumors, rumors, rumors......

Howeer, shoud'nt there be some prototypes around, if they go in production at the end of 08.

I have not seen any IH or Norco protos in the web, so where are they?

I don't recall seeing it said anywhere that the bike would be in production for next year. I read "future"