If you work in a shop...

[LordOpie]

... and sell bikes by standover, please ask the admins here to delete your account and quit your job cuz you fockin' suck!


I just read on another forum some guy tell a 5'10" with 87cm inseam that he should ride a 58 or 60cm bike :disgust1:

[James]

But, the boxes the bikes come in say you need at least 1" of standover room! What's wrong with that?

[cycleryshop]

... and sell bikes by standover, please ask the admins here to delete your account and quit your job cuz you fockin' suck!


I just read on another forum some guy tell a 5'10" with 87cm inseam that he should ride a 58 or 60cm bike :disgust1:

This guy is fcked for sizing. 58cm gives you the right standover, but you are way stretched out.

A 54 or a 56 is a better size but there could be a huge drop from saddle height to the bars.

[LordOpie]

But, the boxes the bikes come in say you need at least 1" of standover room! What's wrong with that?

I'd think being 1" from the box would be frustrating.


I just think that if you claim to be a professional and you offer advice to someone on the internet that there should be some sort of responsibility for bad/wrong advice :twitch:

[James]

I'd think being 1" from the box would be frustrating.


I just think that if you claim to be a professional and you offer advice to someone on the internet that there should be some sort of responsibility for bad/wrong advice :twitch:

I agree 100%. On both counts.
People tend to claim a lot of things on the web, and if you're seeking the advice of fellow forums users over the advice of paid professionals, then you need to open your eyes.
Most shops have at least one person who really believes in what they're doing, find them and they won't steer you wrong.

[zebrahum]

If you think standover isn't important in sizing a bike, take up golf and leave us alone.

[H8R]

58cm gives you the right standover, but you are way stretched out.

How do you know? What is the the frame's TT length? What bars are on there? Stem length?


ST length is only the first measurement in a series of measurements. You have to measure the rider and know the bike.



Using only standover works if you're stealing the damn thing and you need to move fast.

[SPINTECK]

... and sell bikes by standover, please ask the admins here to delete your account and quit your job cuz you fockin' suck!


I just read on another forum some guy tell a 5'10" with 87cm inseam that he should ride a 58 or 60cm bike :disgust1:

Have you ever worked in retail?? I love telling guys they should ride a smaller frame, especially when it's true b/c most around Philly take it as an attack on their manhood.

Since I wonder how many people read my posts, I'll tell you my secret: ride the bike and pick the smallest frame that allows you to run a 70-110mm stem without hitting your knees on the handlebar during a sprint or uphill. This way you pick a tight frame and get as far back behind/over the front axle as possible- Not one of my roadie friends can touch me on a downhill. THen use the LEmond, colorado cyclist or wrenchscience calculations to see what agrees and analyze what doesn't agree. People think there is one sizing method for all- so not true- i'm short, so I look Diluca's bike and Mcewen's because they are set-up SO DEFERENTLY- climber vs sprinter.

[James]

When I met Ernesto Colnago, he sized me up for a 54 sloping and 175mm cranks, both of which I pretty much agreed with, but then he threw me for a loop, and said I should be running a 140mm (!) stem! I can't imagine being that stretched out, I'm just not that long in the torso/arms.
But he's Ernesto Colnago, and I'm just some shmoe, so what do I know? He's sized hundreds of pros probably, people like Eddy M.
I went with his suggestions, but ended up with a 120mm stem.

[LordOpie]

How do you know? What is the the frame's TT length? What bars are on there? Stem length?


ST length is only the first measurement in a series of measurements. You have to measure the rider and know the bike.



Using only standover works if you're stealing the damn thing and you need to move fast.
amen and :rofl:


If I was to buy a bike strictly on one measurement, it'd be TT.

[LordOpie]

Have you ever worked in retail??
I haven't, but I've bought bikes, I've purchased measuring and fitting service, I've watched people do it for other clients, some were friends of mine.

I can say with ZERO DOUBT that a person who's not good at it will make the rider miserable and someone who's awesome at it is an artist and a scientist and totally worth the extra money!

And yeah, like you, I personally prefer riding a slightly smaller bike. I really love how my 54cm Surly LHT handles and I'm 5'10", so a 58-60cm bike would fockin' suck for me.

[LordOpie]

When I met Ernesto Colnago, he sized me up for a 54 sloping and 175mm cranks, both of which I pretty much agreed with, but then he threw me for a loop, and said I should be running a 140mm (!) stem! I can't imagine being that stretched out, I'm just not that long in the torso/arms.
But he's Ernesto Colnago, and I'm just some shmoe, so what do I know? He's sized hundreds of pros probably, people like Eddy M.
I went with his suggestions, but ended up with a 120mm stem.
I appreciate what you're saying, but cycling-Gods are not always right. I used to follow Sheldon Brown's advice religiously, but I've come to discover that he's just a genius and not always right about everything.

Do you like the 120 stem? Is it working better for you?

[indieboy]

fittings are so funny

[James]

I appreciate what you're saying, but cycling-Gods are not always right. I used to follow Sheldon Brown's advice religiously, but I've come to discover that he's just a genius and not always right about everything.

Do you like the 120 stem? Is it working better for you?

Had I been a racer looking for the best position, sure, but honestly, I still have a lot of my MTB in me, I don't like being as bent over, etc, so I made some mods based on maximizing my comfort. My coworker uses the super-long stem, with 0 (none!) spacers under it, super-low. But that's his style and preference.

With that, yes, the bike is amazing, I am absolutely in love with it.

The best part about it, is that he can just look at you, and size you up in his head, and his measurements are about 90%+ on the mark, see the C50 review on Cyclingnews.com.

[muddy beast]

These are the reasons why I dread having to help someone with a road bike sale.

Since I dont own a road bike, I have never quite learned how they should fit.
Give me a mountain biker, and I can fit him/her just fine and make a sale, but a roadie, eek...

[indieboy]

Had I been a racer looking for the best position, sure, but honestly, I still have a lot of my MTB in me, I don't like being as bent over, etc, so I made some mods based on maximizing my comfort. My coworker uses the super-long stem, with 0 (none!) spacers under it, super-low. But that's his style and preference.

With that, yes, the bike is amazing, I am absolutely in love with it.

The best part about it, is that he can just look at you, and size you up in his head, and his measurements are about 90%+ on the mark, see the C50 review on Cyclingnews.com.

someone like that has been doing so many fits over the course of what almost is his entire life, he's bound to do crazy **** like that. i love that he takes flexibility into account.

[cycleryshop]

How do you know? What is the the frame's TT length? What bars are on there? Stem length?


ST length is only the first measurement in a series of measurements. You have to measure the rider and know the bike.



Using only standover works if you're stealing the damn thing and you need to move fast.

Well, only my 15 years of experience selling road bikes tells me that a man who is 5'10" typically has a 30 inch inseam and rides a bike 55cm top tube, no matter what the standover height is.

Most manufacturers build their geometry around this average. I just looked at Cannondale, Specialized, and Bianchi (which are a mix of compact and standard frame designs), and guess what, the 54cm/55cm frames averaged 55cm top tube lengths.

Considering this man has a 34 inch inseam, the typical length for a man who is 6'3" (who would ride a 58.5cm top tube), his torso length is going to be shorter than the man of the same height but with a 30 inch inseam.

Now possible the man is extremely flexible and can comfortably reach the bars if there was 5 inch drop from the saddle. Or possibly a manufacturer spec'ed their XL bikes with a 6cm stem.

BTW, this is Sanjuro.

[LordOpie]

Well, only my 15 years of experience selling road bikes tells me that a man who is 5'10" typically has a 30 inch inseam and rides a bike 55cm top tube, no matter what the standover height is.

Most manufacturers build their geometry around this average. I just looked at Cannondale, Specialized, and Bianchi (which are a mix of compact and standard frame designs), and guess what, the 54cm/55cm frames averaged 55cm top tube lengths.

Considering this man has a 34 inch inseam, the typical length for a man who is 6'3" (who would ride a 58.5cm top tube), his torso length is going to be shorter than the man of the same height but with a 30 inch inseam.

Now possible the man is extremely flexible and can comfortably reach the bars if there was 5 inch drop from the saddle. Or possibly a manufacturer spec'ed their XL bikes with a 6cm stem.

BTW, this is Sanjuro.

You had me at BTW.

[muddy beast]

You had me at BTW.

agreed...
:imstupid:

[Arsbars]

I really like the "can you see the hub?" WTF?

[ire]

i love that he takes flexibility into account.

It plays a large role in how stretched out the cockpit can be, so does core strength. I've been reading some of the fitting/adjustment stuff on cyclingnews.com....it's interesting to hear their advice

[LordOpie]

Just a minor FYI...

There's one factor that too many people don't take into consideration besides flexibility and core strength...

I know it's not common, but spinal injuries.

I have pretty decent core strength and flexibility, but I cannot bend over far for long due to a neck injury.

[ire]

Thats a good point, I didn't think about injuries. My father broke his elbow a long time ago and he can't get full extension on one arm, so he needs a more upright position.

[loco-gringo]

I hate people that don't work in a shop that know more than me. I just returned a $3500 bike because some douche bag, that has never ridden with a chick that is 5'5" and some change, told her that there is no way she would ride a 52cm bike. He told her to buy a 49 cm. He convinced her, even though we measured her and determined that a 53cm TT would be ideal.

I think I hate everyone in regards to fits. I am far from educated, but can do fits. I really hate the "by the book" fitters that make everything rocket science, as that doesn't work on everyone. It's sh*t like that preventing people from thinking outside of the norm to help people like you, Steve.

[LordOpie]

I hate people that don't work in a shop that know more than me. I just returned a $3500 bike because some douche bag, that has never ridden with a chick that is 5'5" and some change, told her that there is no way she would ride a 52cm bike. He told her to buy a 49 cm. He convinced her, even though we measured her and determined that a 53cm TT would be ideal.

I think I hate everyone in regards to fits. I am far from educated, but can do fits. I really hate the "by the book" fitters that make everything rocket science, as that doesn't work on everyone. It's sh*t like that preventing people from thinking outside of the norm to help people like you, Steve.

I... don't know what you said.

One of us has been drinking too much tonight :D

Just to clarify: I promote using LBS for measuring and fitting. I promote the 'art' side of it as much as the science. I know two guys in Denver that have the exact opposite approach and both are brilliant.

[DirtyMike]

Stand over, is crap. Need to look at TT length before you look at tt height for sure. I mean try checking someone for sizing on an Sworks, Or a Tarmac by having them stand over it, not gonna work. Like LO said though, Alot of it is Comfort, every person is going to fit differently, seeing how noone is built the same. Only way to get a perfect fit, Is a custom frame from someone like IF. We have built up a few of them, Man they look strange sometimes, But Hey they fit perfect.


To finish my part, Start with science, End with Art. Then youll have a well fit bike

[sanjuro]

I hate people that don't work in a shop that know more than me. I just returned a $3500 bike because some douche bag, that has never ridden with a chick that is 5'5" and some change, told her that there is no way she would ride a 52cm bike. He told her to buy a 49 cm. He convinced her, even though we measured her and determined that a 53cm TT would be ideal.

I think I hate everyone in regards to fits. I am far from educated, but can do fits. I really hate the "by the book" fitters that make everything rocket science, as that doesn't work on everyone. It's sh*t like that preventing people from thinking outside of the norm to help people like you, Steve.

We use Fit Kit, and I mention to many customers than other shops are just guessing.

But I "guess" as well. I check saddle height by leg bend (30 degrees), arm bend, and ask questions about comfort and the kind of riding to be done.

I will also use Fit Kit, but mostly to order bikes, not to fit people on the ones they have already bought.

[H8R]

I really like the "can you see the hub?" WTF?

Or "hold this plum bob in the crook of your left knee with the pedal at 9:06 and your left hand pointed out to the horizon while the right hand is grasping the right drop and your right foot is resting on the other pedal with the front valve at 2:00 and your right eye closed and etc etc etc..... "

Too many stupid tricks.

[indieboy]

Stand over, is crap. Need to look at TT length before you look at tt height for sure. I mean try checking someone for sizing on an Sworks, Or a Tarmac by having them stand over it, not gonna work. Like LO said though, Alot of it is Comfort, every person is going to fit differently, seeing how noone is built the same. Only way to get a perfect fit, Is a custom frame from someone like IF. We have built up a few of them, Man they look strange sometimes, But Hey they fit perfect.


To finish my part, Start with science, End with Art. Then youll have a well fit bike

matt bracken is one of the best guys in the industry hands down...

[LordOpie]

...Start with science, End with Art. ...

This is true in many areas of life, both professional and personal.

[loco-gringo]

I'll chime in later, Opie, but not offended in the least.

[-dustin]

customer came in today with a $7k bike that he bought elsewhere. he wasn't happy with the fit at all. he told the other guy (shop guy) what he wanted and what he thought he fit on...other guy (shop guy) said "no, you'll fit on this better." well, customer's not happy now. if i would've had a 51.5 Pin. Prince, he would've bought it from me today. damn.

[DirtyMike]

matt bracken is one of the best guys in the industry hands down...

Not sure who that is, All i know for sure is that Standover is a crap way to size a bike

[LordOpie]

Not sure who that is, All i know for sure is that Standover is a crap way to size a bike

He's his sponsor.

[Arsbars]

There are many theories of fitting a bike, schools of thought, and just schools in general. Wobble naught, Serotta and Fit Kit are the three that come to mind at first.

I think there is a science behind bike fit, but in that science needs to be a general open mind to what the customer is looking for and their history.

Example : Guy is super flexible, is looking to do road races, but uses his bike for all around use. Does this mean you but him in a super dropped bike? Not necessarily. See what the guy wants. Maybe he's had back surgery, or has shoulder issues.

Also one school of thought might suit one person well and not the other.