Dual Pivot DH/FR Bikes

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Give me some suggestions on what I should look for or who I should look at. I will in the market for a new bike so I need some suggestions.

Thanks

[r464]

Dual pivot?

Do you mean frames that are NOT single-pivot?

[sunnerbeanmtb]

ha yeah I guess...kinda new at the lingo

[bent^biker]

kinda tough to make a recomendatoin without knowing what kinda terrain you ride on a regular basis, your style, etc

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Ive been racing for two years now. I want somehting that is light enough to race, burley enough to freeride, easy enough for a girl to handle (I am infact a female) and something that wont put me in the poor house. I have some killer parts on my dh/fr/race bike now, so I would probably be looking for jsut the frame. I am on the east coast so we dont have much big big stuff here, but enough for 7-8 inches.

need any other info?

[DirtyMike]

Something with a fourbar system usually works well for what your asking, Like Kona or Transistion. If your looking for something that a vitrual pivot and lite, dont expect to find anythinig cheap. mPersonally i love my Dirtbag, 6-7 inch read, paired up with a 66 eta fork x9 drivetrain makes for a great dh/freeride bike that can take a hell of a beating, but is very managable and responsive

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Thanks mike

[r464]

Are you looking for something that will pedal well uphill? You can blow a lot of money on a frame these days :)

[sunnerbeanmtb]

hahaha no not so much pedaling. I was highly recommended to get abike with more than one pivot point for the rear suspension. So thats what I am looking for.

[mountainbiker24]

Actually, Kona's linkage is not a true four bar. It's basically a single pivot with the linkage altering the shock's compression. Giant makes a nice bike with the Maestro suspension. Specialized is good, which has a true four bar suspension. I've heard good things about Iron Horse, too. Personally, I'm sold on Giant.

[DirtyMike]

The only thing single pivot about Kona/transition, is tha axle path itself, You cant really call is a single pivot because the linkage, and rockers change how the bike rides, reacts, tracks, and travels. If it was truly a single Pivot, the rockers and other linkages wouldnt make a difference in how the bike rides. I do see what your saying though, but the Kona/Transistion really is a fourbar, Speccy is an FSR Fourbar, defenetly a difference, but they are both fourbars.

[sunnerbeanmtb]

What what about the SC bullit or vp free? We are signing on with SC for sponsorship but I want to get a bike that is going to be ebst for me in the long run. So if that means going with a different company I have no problem with that.

[SuperKat]

VP Free vote here.

[r464]

I just got a new Bullit. It's a single pivot, but a great frame.

[SK6]

The Kona's a good choice for what your asking it to do.

[OGRipper]

What what about the SC bullit or vp free? We are signing on with SC for sponsorship but I want to get a bike that is going to be ebst for me in the long run. So if that means going with a different company I have no problem with that.

It's true that the new bullit is a single pivot, but it's also a super fun and capable bike that will perform great and give you almost zero maintenance headaches over the long run. It's also cheaper than a vp-free and lighter, so probably easier for you to throw around than the free.

If you are not so worried about pedaling efficiency, the bullit is a great choice. Not all single pivots are the same, and the bullit's pivot location gives it great performance in the rough stuff.

Check the more recent posts in this thread for some pics of new bullits: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166093&highlight=bullit

[DirtyMike]

Yeah if you dont mind getting a single pivot the bullet is a great way to go, price/weight are right, and its a tough ride. And actually if you go with an 08, then the climb isnt too terrible, with all the new shock technology and all. Its amazing what a propedal shock can do

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Thanks guys I really appreciate it. Looks like the bullit is probably the way im going to go!

[r464]

Once I get my new BB, I'll post a pic of my new Bullit. I don't think that you could be unhappy with one...

[mandown]

get out and ride some bikes. if you have been racing for two years, then you must have made a few friends at the races. talk to them about what they ride and why. ask to take their bikes for a run.

did i miss it, or did you even say what you are currently racing on?

before you buy anything, understand what it is that you are on and what it does that is different from what you want it to do. a high forward single pivot like a morewood will be different from a low rear single pivot from a transition/kona/turner (come on kids, it is 2007, we all know 4-bar means horst, and the others are single pivot trying designs trying to look like a horst). the high forward pivot will help with rough and rocky runs because the axle path is better suited for going over bumps and the wheelbase gets longer as the suspension compresses. this also makes them feel like a plow and they are harder to move around corners. low rear pivots will have a shrinking wheelbase through the compression, making them nice for corners and manuals. unfortunately, the rear wheel also pulls into obstacles in the compression path, making it harder to roll over them (not a feel noticed by everyone, but still a true event).

big fat single pivots have fewer moving parts, so they tend to be easier to maintain. some may notice more flex with a non-faux-bar single pivot (like the bullit) since there is a longer unsupported length of material between the pivot point and the axle when compared to something with a low rear pivot.

that is where my real world experience ends. i haven't ridden any virtual pivot bikes on the trail. i did demo one in a parking lot and noticed that it was hard to bunnyhop and the wheels felt "stuck" to the ground (it was an intense vpp frame). the VPP linkage allows the bike to be run with a deeper sag setting.

regardless of the theory, get on a variety of bikes and try them. they all have merit. the geometry of the bike has as much, if not more, to do with the handling as the linkage. the combo of the two is what will make for the right bike.

[sunnerbeanmtb]

wow, mandown thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time to explain all that too me. I never knew suspension went that deep (or maybe I was just very naive). I am riding a haro x 7 now with a RS domain 318 in front and a Marz WC Rocco 9.5 x 3 in the rear. Its nice and I like it but I think Im ready for something a little more ... I dont know, something. Ive riden a demo 9 and liked it, but felt very heavy and stuck in the rear. Ive ridden the morewood which was a little better but not much. I dont want something dual crown, 10in in the rear, yada dada...Id like 7-8 inches all around, single crown, but strong enough for racing and FRing. I was really digging the socom until someone told me its strictly a race bike and not made for freeride. I know a lot about bikes, but not enough about freeride and downhill bikes to form my own thoughts concretley yet. So I take what people tell me to heart and remember the opinions. But again, thanks for ALL your help. That really broke things down for me. I do appreciate it.

[dan wask]

I was really digging the socom until someone told me its strictly a race bike and not made for freeride. .

Thats a crock of ish. Any bike can be used for "freeride", it may be a little different from a bike with dedicated "freeride" geometry, but it will still do the job damn well.

[DirtyMike]

That is a true statement, any bike can be used as a freeride bike, but they wont nessecarily be the best. Just of curiousity Who said the socom was strictly a race bike???

[mandown]

intense calls it a race bike (fro=for racing only). i think it has some to do with the lighter tubeset of the frame, but also much to do with the geometry of the bike. the socom can be used as a freeride machine, but there are better tools for doing that job out there... unless the socom geometry has what you want in a freeride bike (far be it for me to tell you what the right geometry for you is).

i know you are a female, so i hesitate to ask how much you weigh, and instead will suggest that if you are less than the common/average 180lb rider, you can probably beat the heck out of a socom freeriding it without worry. many groms and smaller adult riders bang the heck out of XC gear on DH bikes and it holds up. the lighter you are the better.

as you noted, the demo feels stuck in the rear. that has much to do with the amount of travel and the wheelbase (and probably the shock setup). the haro you are on will probably feel close to a bullit (sp?) as the pivot locations are similar. however, shock setup and chainstay lengths will have a feel impact as well. the morewood will feel less stuck to the ground, but many people will note (as you did) that it can feel a bit "stuck" as well. the high forward pivot combined with long travel has been known to do that. and as i mentioned earlier, the vpp designs can feel "stuck" for a much different combination of reasons (shock choice, axle path, wheelbase, etc.). you are probably getting the idea that any suspension design can have a "stuck" feeling. that is why you need to ride the bikes.

i can tell you that transition makes a good product for the money. i love my bottlerocket, which handles much like the dirtbags i have ridden. i can't speak for their new dh frame, but it would be worth looking into. it is low and slack, and probably corners well. you may even find you like the transition gran mal (last year was the last year of production) which has many geometry adjustment options. if you can find a used turner dhr, you might want to consider that option (the new ones will probably be hard on the pocket book). speaking of used bikes, try to find a used sinister R9. my bud has one and it pedals much lighter than it is. you could probably run the domain on it and be fine. the giant dh/freeride frames also seem to be quite popular.

check the classifieds as there are a few of the bikes i mentioned in the used pages. you may also want to cross post in the dh forum and ask for suggestions from other racers on bikes that feel lively and snappy instead of "stuck" and see what suggestions you get.

[ire]

I think you're best bet is to look at bikes from a fit standpoint first and then suspension. You could have a killer suspension design and never feel comfortable on the bike. Intense bikes tend to be longer in the cockpit than other bikes....so if you are shorter this maybe a problem. Transition, I believe, makes smaller frames for shorter people

[sunnerbeanmtb]

guys again thanks for all your help. my goal this winter is to test ride losts of bikes and come to find one I really like. you all have given me wonderful ideas so thank you very very much.

[mandown]

good luck.
keep in mind, that if you find something you like that needs a bit of tweaking, SWD racing does good quality cromo bikes with custom geometry numbers for a wicked cheap price
Link (http://swdracing.com/Intro.html)

[mosplat]

transition recently released their woman specific model:
http://transitionbikes.com/2007/Syren.cfm
i think it's worth a look.

[mandown]

i don't think it has as much travel as she is looking for, but good idea otherwise.

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Yeah I did stumble onto that, and thanks for the thought. But like mandown said, its not enough travel. I need big bike stuff :) But awesome thought

[46chief]

Unless you are 180lbs I don't think you'll notice the difference between a 6 and 7 in bike. I think the trend is leaning towards shorter travel bikes. I'd try and ride the transition siren. it looks like a sweet ride. my personal preference is for a lighter/agile bike I can throw around or maneuver easier.

VP-Free rides real nice compared to the Bullit, but is it hard to maintain all those pivots?

I wish there were some XS frame choices for women, My wife would like a bigger bike but hasn't seen anything she's comfortable with.

[mandown]

has she checked the kona stinky? the small frame size on those is small (15" ST and 22" TT).

[Stray_cat]

I'm sure it's already been said but...cough *geometry* cough *geometry.* Leverage ratios, axel path, linkages etc...etc... won't mean a whole lot if your not comfortable on the bike. If possible try and get out to some popular spots(or your LBS of course) and swing your legs over other peoples' bikes. While the suspension might not be set up for you, it'll give you a pretty good idea of what you like and don't like. You'll know what feels good and what doesn't.