Vista. How reliable?

[blue]

I'm really wanting a new iMac, but I'm broke, and rethinking building a PC. How bad is Vista when it comes to being a piece of bloated Microsoft sh!t? Say good things...please.

[Silver]

Nice things to say about Vista...

"It's better than Windows ME."

That's all I've got.

[blue]

Nice things to say about Vista...

"It's better than Windows ME."

That's all I've got.

:panic:

[blue]

And now I question how much quicker the machine I just built on Newegg would be than the base iMac for .raw batch processing. 4gb RAM, Core 2 Quad...

[MtnBikerChk]

I'm really wanting a new iMac, but I'm broke, and rethinking building a PC. How bad is Vista when it comes to being a piece of bloated Microsoft sh!t? Say good things...please.

depends what you're going to do with it.

we bought a laptop mainly for taking on the road for email/Internet and the occasional work document etc. For that it's great - I actually like it a lot.

I wouldn't trust it as a workhorse though.

[blue]

depends what you're going to do with it.

we bought a laptop mainly for taking on the road for email/Internet and the occasional work document etc. For that it's great - I actually like it a lot.

I wouldn't trust it as a workhorse though.

Yeah. Heavy image processing. This is my concern...Maybe I should just stick with XP Lite if I were to go the PC route.

edit: Linux? Mmm. No. No photochop in Linux.

Three reasons for really wanting an iMac:

-I love OS X

-It's beautiful

-You don't have to **** with it

[binary visions]

If you're building a PC, your copy of Vista is not going to be subsidized so I would say don't bother, for now. If you were getting it subsidized by Dell or something, I'd say you should definitely go for Vista since it is an inevitable upgrade, but give it until the first service pack before jumping in.

BTW, most applications are not going to take advantage of a quad core processor, research before you splurge for something like that. The speed increase will very likely not be worth the cash.

[blue]

BTW, most applications are not going to take advantage of a quad core processor, research before you splurge for something like that. The speed increase will very likely not be worth the cash.

Yeah, I know, I just like running thirty million things at once...think Adobe Bridge, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, iTunes, Firefox, Word, Illustrator...

All while Bridge is leaching RAWs from the camera and Photoshop is batch processing some others. :D

Think it'll help me there?

[binary visions]

Yes, quad cores do help when you're too stupid to close windows that you're finished with :D

[Transcend]

I have a bad habit of running all of my my spaces windows with memory intensive apps and not closing them. Quad core macpro and 4gb of ram helps me here.

I normally have PSD, ILL, Safari, Parallels, Firefox Adium, Mail, Textmate and CSSedit all open at once.

PSD only recognizes 2 cores, btw.

Also, leopard makes tiger look like it needed a kick in the ass. So much faster, wow. And retail safari 3.0.4 is very nice.

[drakan]

Short answer: No.
I'd wait until Christmas time, when they release SP1 to upgrade.

[blue]

I have a bad habit of running all of my my spaces windows with memory intensive apps and not closing them. Quad core macpro and 4gb of ram helps me here.

I normally have PSD, ILL, Safari, Parallels, Firefox Adium, Mail, Textmate and CSSedit all open at once.

PSD only recognizes 2 cores, btw.

Also, leopard makes tiger look like it needed a kick in the ass. So much faster, wow. And retail safari 3.0.4 is very nice.

I wonder how the iMac would shape up against a PC built with the same cash...

[SK6]

Well, I have been running Vista for 8 months. Known issues:

1. Driver issues. Printer driver issues are sh!ty.
2. Video driver issues. Find one that works. And never trust the updated driver that many video manufacturers "release". Be careful in this regard because you'll be reformatting your hard drive to get it to work again. And thats a fact.
3. Handles memory real nice.
4. Indexing service enough to drive you to drink..............MORE.
5. The User safety crap, allow/disallow can be shut off, but has to be done on a few levels to really have it turned off.

I do not run the Aero crap simply because my notebook has two gigs of ram, and 128 of it is shared with the video, so they say.

Conclusions. I crashed twice, the last one was one week ago. I have all of my data on an external drive, and since Vista, back up my PST once a week. I'm going back to XP, more stable, more reliable. (I can't believe I said anything positive about MicroSh!t)

[binary visions]

2. Video driver issues. Find one that works. And never trust the updated driver that many video manufacturers "release". Be careful in this regard because you'll be reformatting your hard drive to get it to work again. And thats a fact.
Sorry, but an instance of one bizarre driver causing you problems doesn't make it a fact...
4. Indexing service enough to drive you to drink..............MORE.
5. The User safety crap, allow/disallow can be shut off, but has to be done on a few levels to really have it turned off.
Indexing and UAC can both be totally disabled in less than 30 seconds. UAC does not have to be disabled on multiple "levels" you simply shut it off and it stops prompting you for system level access.

Not trying to rag on you, but easily correctable or extremely obscure problems are not reasons to dismiss an OS.

[SK6]

Naw dude, it's all good, but the instance of the video drive is recreate able...(albeit sadly). I called the good folks at gateway, and they said it was a hardware issue. So, I figured I'd just reformat anyway, and low and behold....fixed. Intel said they have know of these issue with Vista, however it is Vista's responsibility to remedy, not them.

The issue was tested on three other notebooks, with the same result. So while not obscure, still bizarre nonetheless!

The UAC for me had to be disabled in the security area and then finally in MSconfig. Finding that out then made a 30 second process.....prior to that knowledge however, factored in with how slow I am in the head, made a a day or two..... :D

(Still owe you beer, and might be used as an excuse for a road trip...well that and riding down your way... :D )

[blue]

Wow. Uhh, pass on Vista.

Leopard just came out. Now I'm at a crossroads... :think:

[Reactor]

I wonder how the iMac would shape up against a PC built with the same cash...

Generally pretty close. You can always find lopsided comparisons one way or the other if you try, but generally if you spend the same money on the a similar quality of hardware they'll be very close. I have an XPS 410 2.4g dual core 4gb memory and an Imac 2.1g dual core 3 GB of memory. They run at smilar speeds, the grapics card is faster on the xps410 but it cost more than the Imac.

My main concern would apps and licenses. If you have a bunch of heavy duty apps (legally) you could spend several times as much on software as hardware.

You'll generally get a much better deal on memory if you buy after market. Dall and Apple both have the habit of marking memory upgrades up tremendously.


EDIT: Vista is neither as bad as it's detractors say, nor as good as it's supporters say. If you have fairly new supported hardware, in a desktop, you probably won't have much in the way of trouble. If you have iffy or obscure hardware....buy a new system.

[blue]

My main concern would apps and licenses. If you have a bunch of heavy duty apps (legally) you could spend several times as much on software as hardware.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.... *snort*

Anywho.

I threw together a PC in the 1000-1200$ range on Newegg:

-Core 2 Quad 2.4ghz (reviews are telling me the difference between Duo and Quad is HUGE, especially when you OC the Quad a touch)
-4gb Patriot RAM
-LG 20" display
-nVidia something something video card
-500gb hdd

For comparison, the iMac has (for the same price)...
-Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz
-1gb RAM
-20" display
-250gb HDD (plus a 160gb firewire I have that is mac-only)
-nVidia something something video card
-Incredible resale value

[SK6]

I'd like to overclock my system a bit. I know, I know, read the thread.

As far as obscure systems? Well lets see,

Intel Core2 CPU, Centrino Duo, T7200 @ 2 GHz w/ 2 gigs of RAM

[Reactor]

Intel Core2 CPU, Centrino Duo, T7200 @ 2 GHz w/ 2 gigs of RAM

And the rest of the system? You could have a fairly normal system with one troublesome piece of hardware and be screwed. Laptops vendors are notorious for changing hardware every few months. Ask anyone who does support.

[Reactor]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.... *snort*

Anywho.


I thought so...:pirate2:


I threw together a PC in the 1000-1200$ range on Newegg:

-Core 2 Quad 2.4ghz (reviews are telling me the difference between Duo and Quad is HUGE, especially when you OC the Quad a touch)
-4gb Patriot RAM
-LG 20" display
-nVidia something something video card
-500gb hdd

For comparison, the iMac has (for the same price)...
-Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz
-1gb RAM
-20" display
-250gb HDD (plus a 160gb firewire I have that is mac-only)
-nVidia something something video card
-Incredible resale value

Another $50-100 or so will expand the mac to 3-4GB

Unless your apps are multi-threaded or you run several apps batch processing at the same time you won't see much difference between a duo and quad core. If you have the right apps you see almost double the performance.

[SK6]

The video is the 128 Intel 945 GM with 128 megs of shared video memory. 160 Gig HD with a DVD Dual layer burner; full keyboard,meaning I have number keypad. DDR2 644 MHz front side bus.

[Reactor]

The video is the 128 Intel 945 GM with 128 megs of shared video memory. 160 Gig HD with a DVD Dual layer burner; full keyboard,meaning I have number keypad. DDR2 644 MHz front side bus.

All it takes is one poorly supported chipset on the motherboard to potentially cause a problem. The Intel 945GM express chipset has had problems under Vista, and Linux. Especially with games on Vista. I've seen some posts where it looks like some people are having luck uninstalling their driver and reinstalling the newest drivers (15.6.1) (http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductID=2301)

[binary visions]

-Incredible resale value

Bwahahahahaha. Seriously? You're buying a computer system for the resale value? So you can get, what, an extra hundred bucks in 3 years? :D

SK6; despite what the vendor is saying, it's on them to put out a driver that doesn't FUBAR the OS, it's not on Microsoft to make sure their OS plays nice with every driver that gets put out. Period. If they release a driver, they'd damn sure better make sure it works - and yes, that's even if there's a bug in the OS that's causing the problem. They still need to release a proper driver, or not release one at all.

Overclocking laptops is generally bad news - at least that's been my experience. They already straddle a fine line between heat and performance, and the heat they generate without an overclock already shortens the component lifespan. Add to that the fact that you can't get at the inside if your heatsink decides to come loose or something like that, and there's a lot that can go wrong.

[bean]

I'm a little late replying, but the only issue that I've had with Vista is that it didn't automatically support the ten year old network card that was in my computer. IMO driver availability for a ten year old piece of hardware doesn't even count as an issue.

There have been zero reliability issues since February, so I'd say it's been at least as solid as XP. As long as you're running it on adequate hardware, it will be at least as fast as XP, and I hear that SP1 runs even better.

Unless you're using software that you know won't run on Vista I wouldn't have any qualms about using it.

[Reactor]

I'm a little late replying, but the only issue that I've had with Vista is that it didn't automatically support the ten year old network card that was in my computer. IMO driver availability for a ten year old piece of hardware doesn't even count as an issue.

There have been zero reliability issues since February, so I'd say it's been at least as solid as XP. As long as you're running it on adequate hardware, it will be at least as fast as XP, and I hear that SP1 runs even better.

Unless you're using software that you know won't run on Vista I wouldn't have any qualms about using it.


My Dell XPS 410, stock and up to date on patches; shows 8.72/10 on the system stability chart in the reliability monitor. The most common error is Iexplore.exe crashing. That's not very impressive considering I mostly use it for visual studio 2005, medevil total war and half-life. It only gets used a maybe 4 hours a week. I do have Norton internet suite (it's a pig) running too.

The system is a 2.4ghz core2-duo 4GB ram with an Nvidia 8600 GTS, and a Creative x-fi gamer sound card, Vista home premium.

[gonefirefightin]

been working fine for me, running vista pro business on the laptop and have every gadget known to man and has actually impressed me witht he reliability, as compared to my toughbook with XP.

[binary visions]

Reactor, you realize that iexplore.exe errors are going to be mostly stability problems with IE and not with Vista, right? IE isn't particularly stable on XP either.

[blue]

Bwahahahahaha. Seriously? You're buying a computer system for the resale value? So you can get, what, an extra hundred bucks in 3 years? :D


Ha, no, but put this in perspective: I sold a used G4 iMac (lamp style) base model with an 800mhz processor and a 60 gig HDD for $400 a few months ago on eBay (That I paid $150 for from university surplus a year prior :rofl:). I don't know that I could give away a PC that old.

[binary visions]

Wow... I may have underestimated the idiocy of Apple zealots :p

:shocked:

[blue]

Wow... I may have underestimated the idiocy of Apple zealots :p

:shocked:

Same...If I'd known at the time how much they went for on FleaBay, I would've bought the lot of 12 and sold them all at a ridiculous profit.

[Reactor]

Reactor, you realize that iexplore.exe errors are going to be mostly stability problems with IE and not with Vista, right? IE isn't particularly stable on XP either.

Of course, but according to sworn federal court testimony by Microsoft IE is part of the OS and cannot be removed...:rolleyes: And Microsoft keeps track of it in their reliability monitor. There are of course other errors, like Visual Studio 2005 crashing, it does that a lot XP or Vista.

P.S: I like the vista/aero interface, as long as you have a good monitor and snappy video card.

[binary visions]

No doubt, just pointing out that the question was in regards to the Vista OS, and IE7 being unreliable isn't really that relevant since IE7 is also unstable in XP.

I really hate IE. What a P.O.S. browser. The only thing good about it is that it is totally slack about standards for page rendering which sucks 98% of the time, but those who are really lax with their coding still get their pages rendered reasonably well.

[Reactor]

No doubt, just pointing out that the question was in regards to the Vista OS, and IE7 being unreliable isn't really that relevant since IE7 is also unstable in XP.

I really hate IE. What a P.O.S. browser. The only thing good about it is that it is totally slack about standards for page rendering which sucks 98% of the time, but those who are really lax with their coding still get their pages rendered reasonably well.

No sweat, I knew what you were getting at, and wasn't offended. It was a valid point.

In my limited Vista itself seems pretty reliable, and runs pretty well as long as you have a dual core, plenty of memory, and a good video card. Vista seems to be pretty intolerant of bad drivers, but many vendors have been getting away with slack coding practices for a long time and need to shape up. Bad drivers are an issue in any OS, not just Vista. Video drivers seem to be the worst offenders, but that's probably due to the short time to market.

[drakan]

Wow... I may have underestimated the idiocy of Apple zealots :p

:shocked:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1738979
If that doesn't work..
Search for user "?????"

[SK6]

With the set up I have, and mostly due to the video, I wanted to run Areo. However, being an old AutoCad user, I have formed certain habits due to the nature of the software, and that is, DO NOT run any extraneous items that can eat RAM.


So, based on the system, mostly the video, I am REAL apprehensive about running Areo. Is the use of Areo negligible enough to try?

[LokiLopez]

I have Vista running on my laptop for about 4 months now and had no problems at all. If you're planning on using Photoshop, it "looks"(haven't done any measures yet) to run faster on Vista.

I say, go for it. After a few tweaks works like a charm and you can get it running(with Aero) using about 300M of ram(no superfetch).


On the other hand, if you like OSX, i'd get a PC and have it run OSX. You can find lists of 100% compatible hardware at the insanemac foruns and end up with a much cheaper and fast "Mac". ;)

[binary visions]

Aero has been tested several times and all indications are that the system performance hit is virtually nothing, since Aero relies primarily on the video card for rendering.

[blue]

Okay kiddies...these are its:

PC
-2.4ghz Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU
-4gb Patriot RAM
-500gb 7200RPM HDD paired with 80gb Raptor 10,000RPM HDD
-nVidia 8600GT GPU
-20" LG display with 3000:1 contrast and 2ms response
-All other boring goodies not cheaped out on (Mobo, Case, PSU, etc)

Orrr...
iMac
-2.0ghz Core 2 Duo CPU
-4gb RAM (would upgrade the 1gb immediately)
-410GB storage total (OEM 250GB+160GB Firewire external drive)
-ATI XsomethingterriblesoweonlysellitOEM GPU
-20" Apple display

Will the Core 2 Duo running under OS X be able to shape up against the Core 2 Quad in XP? EPIC DEATHMATCH!

[syadasti]

Make sure you are not getting a crappy panel if you buy the PC. The 20" iMac has a POS TN LCD. The 24" iMac has a decent SPVA but you could do better than that and get a SIPS LCD.

[blue]

That LG looks to be the best bang for the buck in the $200 bracket, at least according to NewEgg reviews.

[LokiLopez]

That LG looks to be the best bang for the buck in the $200 bracket, at least according to NewEgg reviews.On that price range looks like a TN panel.

If you're into image processing get a SPVA or SIPS panel! ;)

[H8R]

[QUOTE=blue;2710553]
edit: Linux? Mmm. No. No photochop in Linux.
/QUOTE]

Ubuntu, GIMP, Inkscape.


Free. Easy. No probs.

[binary visions]

Photoshop > GIMP.

Just a fact of life.

[drakan]

Okay kiddies...these are its:

PC
-2.4ghz Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU
-4gb Patriot RAM
-500gb 7200RPM HDD paired with 80gb Raptor 10,000RPM HDD
-nVidia 8600GT GPU
-20" LG display with 3000:1 contrast and 2ms response
-All other boring goodies not cheaped out on (Mobo, Case, PSU, etc)

Orrr...
iMac
-2.0ghz Core 2 Duo CPU
-4gb RAM (would upgrade the 1gb immediately)
-410GB storage total (OEM 250GB+160GB Firewire external drive)
-ATI XsomethingterriblesoweonlysellitOEM GPU
-20" Apple display

Will the Core 2 Duo running under OS X be able to shape up against the Core 2 Quad in XP? EPIC DEATHMATCH!
Well, er. You're not going to see all 4 processing cores in XP, or 4 gigs of ram. You're gonna have to go with Vista if you plan on using that setup.
And the iMac sucks... Better bang for your buck with the PC.

[H8R]

Photoshop > GIMP.

Just a fact of life.

GIMP > any other free image editing software ever made.


I never said it was = or > Photoshop.

I'm cheap, not stupid.

[binary visions]

I never said it was = or > Photoshop.

edit: Linux? Mmm. No. No photochop in Linux.

Ubuntu, GIMP, Inkscape.

...implies equivalence :banana: :busted:

[H8R]

...implies equivalence :banana: :busted:

It implies your new knick name is Captain Fvckstik.



:monkeydance:

[binary visions]

It implies your new knick name is Captain Fvckstik.

Look, minion. I still rule around here so watch the insubordination.

[syadasti]

Well, er. You're not going to see all 4 processing cores in XP, or 4 gigs of ram. You're gonna have to go with Vista if you plan on using that setup.
And the iMac sucks... Better bang for your buck with the PC.

XP x64 supports 128GB of memory. Regular XP supports 4GB max - it will give you 3.something GB the number depends on what PCI devices you have in your system and can regularly support up to 2GB for the application unless you use the /3GB switch and the application supports it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/top10.mspx

XP support is based on the no. of physical CPUs - hyperthreading or multicore does not count. XP Home supports 1 CPU and XP Pro supports 2 CPU. That means right now you can have 4 or 8 cores depending on the version of XP though most applications won't take advantage of them all yet.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx

[H8R]

Look, minion. I still rule around here so watch the insubordination.

I meant that with the utmost respect. Captain.

[stinkyboy]

I meant that with the utmost respect. Captain.

Pvssy.

[H8R]

Pvssy.

Well, "You are what you eat".
:busted:



That makes you a bucket full of greasy horse cock!

:lighten:

[stinkyboy]

:ban:

[blue]

So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.

[H8R]

So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.

Don't compare a properly built desktop PC to a laptop.

If you are making purchase decisions based on testing things out on a "something something" laptop, then how can you know your getting the right thing?

Good luck either way.

[drakan]

Go to best buy and get a powerhouse HP media center PC...

[drakan]

XP x64 supports 128GB of memory. Regular XP supports 4GB max - it will give you 3.something GB the number depends on what PCI devices you have in your system and can regularly support up to 2GB for the application unless you use the /3GB switch and the application supports it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/top10.mspx

XP support is based on the no. of physical CPUs - hyperthreading or multicore does not count. XP Home supports 1 CPU and XP Pro supports 2 CPU. That means right now you can have 4 or 8 cores depending on the version of XP though most applications won't take advantage of them all yet.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx

Right, it won't recognize all 4 gigs of RAM. That's what I was saying.

IIRC, Microsoft allows you to have a dual core processor using XP Pro, but when you go for a quad core processor, you need two lisences.

It doesn't really explain it well, but the fine print is kind of there;
Multicore Processor Summary Diagram

Customer B has a system with a single processor with two processor cores. As in the example with Customer A, only one server software license is required per processor.

Dual-Core Processor System—Customer C
Multicore Processor Summary Diagram

Customer C has a system with two processors, and each processor has two processor cores. One server software license would be required per processor.

[binary visions]

So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.
You, uh, rendered a RAW file on a single core laptop PC and have used that as the basis for your decision to move to Apple? Genius! :D

[binary visions]

IIRC, Microsoft allows you to have a dual core processor using XP Pro, but when you go for a quad core processor, you need two lisences.

That's not correct. XP Pro supports two physical processors regardless of the number of cores. XP Home supports one physical processor, again, regardless of the number of cores. They're licensed per-installation. How do you think you'd even add another license to a copy of XP to support the extra cores? Buy another license and do... what with it?

[drakan]

I really can't remember. I just remember reading something about how XP Home can only support one core (or processor), and XP Pro can only support two cores (or processors).
Maybe they've patched it since I read that, but that's what I remember. Something about how task manager can only manage two processors (cores)...

Anyway, regardless, you're still not going to be able to see all the RAM you put into it.

[binary visions]

XP Home can only support one core (or processor), and XP Pro can only support two cores (or processors).
A core is not the same as a processor. You can't use the two terms interchangeably.

[drakan]

I know.
What I am saying is; the two were used as the same term.
Meaning as a dual core processor, it would be recognized as two processors, two sockets, not one socket, two cores.

[Reactor]

So I just tried rendering some HDR out of .raw in Photomatix on my GF's laptop (Intel Centrino something something with 1 gig of RAM). :twitch:

I'm honestly on the verge of going to the Apple store in the next 20 minutes.

My daughter is loving her mac mini. She's used kid pix to make pictures, turn them into a book, and learned to use it as a dvd player, and learned how to use the text to voice feature to help her check what she's typing.

She is six.

[blue]

You, uh, rendered a RAW file on a single core laptop PC and have used that as the basis for your decision to move to Apple? Genius! :D

Oohhhh no no no, I was just implying I was going to go make an impulse purchase because of the slowness of this machine :)

My daughter is loving her mac mini. She's used kid pix to make pictures, turn them into a book, and learned to use it as a dvd player, and learned how to use the text to voice feature to help her check what she's typing.

She is six.

I installed Windows 3.0 when I was five. Too bad that didn't carry over to later on in life. :think:

The Mini would interest me if it weren't for the painfully slow and small hard drives they spec with them.

Aaanyway...So I went down to the Apple store, half thinking I'd buy an iMac because I was pissy and feeling impulsey. Having not played with the latest gen I jumped on one and started screwing with Photoshop in an attempt to make it bog down and die (This was a 2.4ghz 2gb RAM machine). I did it, quite successfully. It started having issues when I tried to photomerge 4 different 800kish pictures, and following that had trouble searching for files when I was opening them in PS. Needless to say I was fairly underwhelmed. Not to mention the Apple store people were pretty clueless when I started talking about batch processing.

So XP does not use 4 gigs in apps and can't utilize a Core 2 Quad CPU?

[blue]

On that price range looks like a TN panel.

If you're into image processing get a SPVA or SIPS panel! ;)

This is the monitor I'm considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005096

Display
Screen Size 20"
Widescreen Yes
Maximum Resolution 1680 x 1050
Recommended Resolution 1680 x 1050
Viewing Angle 170°(H) / 170°(V)
Pixel Pitch 0.294mm
Display Colors 16.2 Million
Brightness 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 3000:1
Response Time 2ms
Display Type WSXGA+

Reviews say it actually comes with 5000:1 contrast instead of 3000...

[blue]

All right...more and more thinking has led me to this: The processor in the iMac I can afford is just too damned slow. Hence, I shall be going with a PC, as soon as the 8800GT is released onto the market.

Specs:

-COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811119137)

-Rosewill RP550V2-S-SL 550W SLI Ready-ATX12V V2.01 Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817182030)

- LG L206WTY-BF Black 20" 2ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor W/ f-Engine and Tilt Adjustment - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824005096)

- GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813128059)

- Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115029)

- A-DATA 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1A16K - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820211066)

- Logitech 967557-0403 Silver/Black USB + PS/2 RF Wireless Slim Cordless Desktop S 510 Mouse Included - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16823126180)

And a DVD burner, WD 76gb Raptor, Seagate 250gb SATA 7200.

Aaaand, when it comes out, an nVidia GeForce 8800GT. All in the ~$1250 range. Not bad.

So...4gb of cRAMmage...yay or nay?

I've selected all the parts with both performance and OS X compatibility in mind. It looks like this could be a Hackintosh. Once I get it going under XP, it will be the first thing on my "to-do" list. If OS X fails, then I will be installing Ubuntu in a dual-boot setup.

Is it me or is hardware super-cheap right now? Storage costs next to nothing...This is a complete machine (sans OS)with monitor that can tear the limbs off of 90% of everything out there for under $1300. WTF mate?

[binary visions]

What I am saying is; the two were used as the same term.
Meaning as a dual core processor, it would be recognized as two processors, two sockets, not one socket, two cores.

Doesn't matter how it was used. The OS distinguishes between an extra socket and an extra core. Microsoft's documentation reflects that.

Blue; XP 32-bit will not recognize all of that RAM. It tops off at just under 3.5gb. Just FYI - you need the 64-bit version or Vista for that much memory.

Also, I highly doubt you actually need 550w worth of power supply. If you picked something up closer to 400w you'll end up running it much more efficiently. Just a thought, the 550w will run fine though. One more idea: I'm now very enamored of the idea that my computer doesn't have to be a noisy wind tunnel. Lots of quiet components out there. Especially if the computer exists somewhere that you live in a lot, you could have a virtually silent PC for ~$50-100 more (swapped PSU, big heatsink and a quiet fan).

[binary visions]

E.g. this power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

This heat sink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038

And this fan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185004

Total $142.97, minus $59.99 on that other PSU and you've got $82.98 and an extremely quiet PC, yet a heatsink/fan that will cool a pretty decent overclock. A fan swap and it'd cool any overclock you like.

[stevew]

I'm really wanting a new iMac, but I'm broke, and rethinking building a PC. How bad is Vista when it comes to being a piece of bloated Microsoft sh!t? Say good things...please.

think EIP engine

[blue]

E.g. this power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033

This heat sink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038

And this fan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185004

Total $142.97, minus $59.99 on that other PSU and you've got $82.98 and an extremely quiet PC, yet a heatsink/fan that will cool a pretty decent overclock. A fan swap and it'd cool any overclock you like.

I actually added 2 120mm fans but didn't list them...One will replace the blue neon sh!t at the front of the case, and I was going to place another on the side. Thinking hard about a CPU cooler...I will OC it at some point, I guess these chips love to be brutalized? 90$ for a 400w PSU...I dunno...How quiet is quiet? Is it just 'cause of the 120mm fan? There's a Fotron for 30$ less...

I will be surgically extracting the "COOLER MASTAR" logo off the front of the case as soon as UPS drops it off, btw.

More editing:
64-bit Windows is as bad to run as Vista, yeah? Leeehm. Maybe I'll just pop in three gigs and if I need it, get a fourth stick. I assume OSX and Ubuntu can use it all...but I won't be using Ubuntu for anything RAM-heavy (GIMP, ohh you guys crack me up ;))

[blue]

think EIP engine

Ooooh! Do the rod bearings need to be replaced every month?!?!

[binary visions]

I actually added 2 120mm fans but didn't list them...One will replace the blue neon sh!t at the front of the case, and I was going to place another on the side. Thinking hard about a CPU cooler...I will OC it at some point, I guess these chips love to be brutalized? That PSU is $93, btw :think:

That PSU is one of the most highly rated, efficient and ultra quiet power supplies on the market :p

Also, that CPU cooler is excellent and is among the top one or two coolers available now. That allows you to both make it quiet, or make it super cooling. The stock cooler is going to be noisy.

[blue]

Damn you, ninja quoter...It's early, I thought you were saying it's all 80something bucks :p

[binary visions]

64-bit Windows is as bad to run as Vista, yeah?
Um. What?

As long as you have 64 bit drivers for everything, it'll be fine, and since you're putting together a new computer I don't see why there wouldn't be new 64 bit drivers for it all.

Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.

You should stick with 2 sticks of RAM, regardless of how much you put in there. It will run in dual channel mode which will be a ton faster.

[syadasti]

Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.

Rosewill 550W, last place in roundup (edit: not the same version blue selected but still):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu7_28.html#sect0

This Antec case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129024) has a decent PSU if blue doesn't want to spend extra...

[blue]

Um. What?

As long as you have 64 bit drivers for everything, it'll be fine, and since you're putting together a new computer I don't see why there wouldn't be new 64 bit drivers for it all.

Given that the power supply is about the only component in your case where failure can lead to complete destruction of the rest of your hardware... I never have a problem spending an extra $30 on it. Which is all you're doing here, especially considering the efficiency and wattage ratings on the Seasonic are very accurate, vs. the exaggerated ratings and inefficiency of a lot of others (I don't know about that particular Rosewill, just in general) so you're likely not getting a full 550w out of it anyway.

You should stick with 2 sticks of RAM, regardless of how much you put in there. It will run in dual channel mode which will be a ton faster.

Moooof...okay, I've got the PSU you recommended. I will be running a $25 MSI 7300GS until the 8800GT is released en masse.

[blue]

I just gave Newegg a grand. Bastards. I will patiently await its arrival on my door step Thursday/Friday :D

[H8R]

I just gave Newegg a grand. Bastards. I will patiently await its arrival on my door step Thursday/Friday :D

:clapping:

[LokiLopez]

This is the monitor I'm considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005096
(...)

Reviews say it actually comes with 5000:1 contrast instead of 3000...TN-film panel. I recomend you find one and give it a go before you actualy buy.


As for OS, binary has said it all 4Gb Ram -> Vista 64bit.

[syadasti]

TN-film panel. I recomend you find one and give it a go before you actualy buy.

Sounds like a good idea.

Here is a pretty good comprehensive LCD monitor buying guide:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide-f2007.html

[blue]

Everything has arrived...Case is fairly impressive, aside from the hideous "Cooler Master" logo on the front (need to cover it/remove it). The 7300LE is packaged lilke it can actually be used for gaming :rofl:

The keyboard I got is fvcking tits...I think it's the part I'm most stoked on. Anyway, will be building/reporting on it tonight when I get home from work.

[blue]

Btw, do I dare try out Windows x64?

[SkaredShtles]

Everything has arrived...Case is fairly impressive, aside from the hideous "Cooler Master" logo on the front (need to cover it/remove it).
Quit being so fashion-conscious Geek Boy. :rolleyes:

[blue]

Quit being so fashion-conscious Geek Boy. :rolleyes:

It came off with a steak knife rather painlessly, but there's an indentation where it once resided. Perhaps I'll fabricate my own VW logo...

[SkaredShtles]

It came off with a steak knife rather painlessly, but there's an indentation where it once resided. Perhaps I'll fabricate my own VW logo...
Careful - that could curse it. :monkey:

[Kornphlake]

Everything has arrived...Case is fairly impressive, aside from the hideous "Cooler Master" logo on the front (need to cover it/remove it). The 7300LE is packaged lilke it can actually be used for gaming :rofl:

The keyboard I got is fvcking tits...I think it's the part I'm most stoked on. Anyway, will be building/reporting on it tonight when I get home from work.


Holy cow that was fast shipping. Did you pay extra for overnight or do they have some kind of deal where they upgrade your shipping for orders over a certain dollar amount?

New keyboards always make me feel all warm and fuzzy too, until I realize I like my old Microsoft natural better.

[blue]

Holy cow that was fast shipping. Did you pay extra for overnight or do they have some kind of deal where they upgrade your shipping for orders over a certain dollar amount?

New keyboards always make me feel all warm and fuzzy too, until I realize I like my old Microsoft natural better.

Nah, just standard UPS ground. From SoCal to here it's 2 days. Always nice ordering stuff from California...all the bike mailorder places are down there too :D

Currently defeating XP activation...build went together smoothly (cept the Mobo OR case didn't come with mobo mounting screws - but case came with mounting points - wtf?)...Cannibalized some from the 5.25 mount points. PCI/disk drive mounting is tool free...kinda cool. I have 4 120mm fans running...with the DVD drive and the Raptor going at the same time it sounds like a 747 (even with BV's renowned quiet PSU ;))

This computer is obscenely fast. Installing Windows took about 10 mins. 10,000RPM WD Raptor+2.66ghz C2D+4gb of RAM=jizzum.

[blue]

My monitor is huge. And bright. And I'm currently posting from it. WOOT!

[blue]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/xbluethunderx/compy1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/xbluethunderx/compy2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/xbluethunderx/compy3.jpg

[binary visions]

Jeez, you're bitching about spending an extra $30 on a PSU but you went and bought a Raptor? :disgust1:

Wouldn't have even suggested the Seasonic if I had known you were ruining you case's acoustics with the Raptor :p

Looks like a nice build, neaten up those cables and get some tucked away so the airflow in the case improves.

[blue]

I still need to figure out how...those were as tucked as I could get them ATM.

Discovered that the retarded light up fan that came with the case (that I replaced) is just lit up by fiber leads...little work with some needle-nosed pliers and it was lighty-uppy free. I now have 4x120mm fans instead of 3. :D

The PSU is quite nice...superior build quality IMHO.

[SkaredShtles]

That cable job makes Baby Jesus cry. :disgust1:

[binary visions]

I still need to figure out how...those were as tucked as I could get them ATM.

You've got all those longass cables. Run them under the motherboard, or tuck them in along the edges of the motherboard instead of putting them directly up and over it. It'll also help take up the slack on the cables so you won't have as much in a mess at the bottom. The mess at the bottom isn't too big a deal since it's not really part of the airflow, just make sure they're crammed down against the bottom of the case instead of popped up and twisted all around.

This is what my HTPC looked like with the old PSU and heatsink:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/binaryvisions/DSC01040.jpg

See how the cables are run along the edges? I neatened it up even more for the final build - even with the big ribbon cable everything is tucked neatly away. Just keep the cables as pressed up against the edges of the case or motherboard as possible.