Team G-Cross Honda is No More..............FINISHED

[Akula_7]

Where Minnaar and Fairclough are gonna go is a big ???

http://www.dirtmag.co.uk/news/category/press%20release/team-g-cross-honda-finished/dirt-123686.html

Read on.

Following an announcement by Honda at the end of the final JCF race series in Japan at the weekend, it can be confirmed that Team G Cross Honda will not be continuing. 23 Degrees Sports Management, the company hired by the Honda Racing Corporation to manage the international mountain bike race activities for the company, confirms today that the program will have no future beyond 2007. According to the statement released by Honda Racing Corporation:

"First of all, we want to express our gratitude to Team Director Martin Whiteley, riders Greg Minnaar, Matti Lehikoinen, Brendan Fairclough, and Cyrille Kurtz, and the talented technical staff of 23 Degrees for their complete understanding and cooperation to the challenge; realising a completely new and world class race category for Honda.

As a motorcycle manufacturer, we had achieved the approach of this challenge by applying our technology which has been cultivated by our motorcycle development, and getting some feedback to our motorcycle technology is one of the purposes of our entry into the downhill mountain bike racing activity. The original "RN01" technology for example, frame and suspension, was designed utilizing off road motorcycle technology, including a very special centrally mounted gearbox that is able to change shift at any time; these were improved repeatedly, and were completed as we expected and hoped it would when we started this project back in 2000.

The correctness of direction, and our approach, has been validated by the fact that we have been the number one international team for the past 2 years, and proven by the race results including acquisition of the NORBA title (2004) and UCI World Cup title (2005). Again, we wish to express our gratitude to all team members and persons related to this project, and want all members of the team to continue aiming at success in all the challenges that lay before them. We deeply appreciate the cooperation and warm guidance we received as a company from both the race scene and the bicycle industry, allowing us to learn a lot over these years, and of course, we greatly appreciate and respect the warm and sincere appreciation of our efforts by the fans of Team G Cross Honda, which was obvious at every race we attended.

" Statement from 23 Degrees Sports Management CEO Martin Whiteley: "Team G Cross Honda has been a very important part of the international race scene over the past 4 years, and the successes have been well documented. However, I think the greatest success of the project has been the way in which it has asked the participants (riders, fans, media, sponsors) to look at our sport in a different light, and to think outside the box when it comes to race technology and the approach to racing.

As a company we are indeed indebted to the Honda Racing Corporation for having the confidence in our abilities to carry out their objectives, but we are also extremely appreciative of the co-sponsors that joined in with our efforts, namely Alpinestars, Maxxis, Showa, Formula, Mavic, Funn, SDG, SRAM, Motorex, Sapim, PowerBar, Chris King and ODI. I also want to pay a particular tribute to the talented riders and staff who have formed part of the World Team since 2004, namely riders Greg Minnaar, Matti Lehikoinen, Brendan Fairclough and Cyrille Kurtz, as well as mechanics Mike Van Zyl, Mark Maurissen and Adam Bonney, Road Manager Paul Schlitz and Photographer Gary Perkin. Their contributions have been invaluable."

[Daver]

What a bombshell.

[Akula_7]

Here is a far more legible version of press release.

http://23degrees-sports.com/news.php?id=583

[psychobiker]

gotta cut costs at the f-1 level.....that sucks

[luiz carlos]

:eek::eek::eek:

Kovarik,Barel,Minnaar,Fairclough.....There are teams for all these riders !!!!!!!!???????????

[lockstock]

^^ yeah i reckon that may have had an influence, as well as Stoner(and ducati/b'stone) slaying the MotoGP field.

[FCLinder]

Man, that really sucks for the team. I do think DH racing will go on with out Honda and thier cool bikes and be ok. But, it really sucks for the ones that made that team what it is. I hope someone grabs up the talent fast and gives them a great ride for 08.

[LukeD]

wow. to be honest I kind of saw it coming when Honda announced that they would not be making and selling the RN01. once that announcement was made...what would be the point of continuing in the future..

rumor starter...
Minnaar to Intense. haha just kiddin

[bizutch]

I can hear the vacuum cleaner of popularity sucking it's last dollar out of our sport. Say bye bye to decent paychecks and international travel all you pros out there.

[FCLinder]

rumor starter...
Minnaar to Intense. haha just kiddin

Nope, I am saying KTM.... Ha Ha

[seth505]

I can hear the vacuum cleaner of popularity sucking it's last dollar out of our sport. Say bye bye to decent paychecks and international travel all you pros out there.


aha +2

[ire]

It's a bummer our sport is losing such a high profile team. I wonder what kind of shift this will bring with teams as more talented riders are looking for teams? Will some of the lower level pro riders be out of luck when it comes to sponsorship (not like there was much money to begin with)?

[bizutch]

I think if you're a top 50 World rider, even top 20 US rider, you should have a sports agent to negotiate your contract for you.

No way any of the pros are getting their true "value" to the brand they represent. Heck, Specialized and Trek are the two biggest MTB brands there are and it would be very interesting to see what they pay their top riders compared to someone like Santa Cruz or Intense, who don't do near the sales volume?

[rosenamedpoop]

Oh what a year. F1 looked like a rotting corpse all of a sudden this time last year, but 2007 has been great, so who knows...

[MinorThreat]

Wow. Too bad. I hope that both Showa and Kayaba saw some value from dabbling in bikes that might pay off for all of us down the road.

[SPINTECK]

That's a big hit for the sport. Of course Honda and it's pro's didn't really do much to grow the sport at the lower levels.

I also think the US economy and lack of extra funds by the average consumer to buy $4000 bikes hurts the future of the market. But some hunters will always refinace their house for a 4 wheeler, which is fine, but it sucks americans don't have the same priorities/extra cash for bikes.

[Zutroy]

I think if you're a top 50 World rider, even top 20 US rider, you should have a sports agent to negotiate your contract for you.

No way any of the pros are getting their true "value" to the brand they represent. Heck, Specialized and Trek are the two biggest MTB brands there are and it would be very interesting to see what they pay their top riders compared to someone like Santa Cruz or Intense, who don't do near the sales volume?

So true...................

Very interesting article about Chris Horner on the road side and him possible looking for a new team and market worth.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13514.0.html

[bizutch]

So true...................

Very interesting article about Chris Horner on the road side and him possible looking for a new team and market worth.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13514.0.html

Here is a perfect example from that article:
Since the Mercury fiasco of 2001, when team riders were not paid for a substantial part of the season, Horner has worked with agent Michael Rutherford, who has also represented Floyd Landis, Nathan O'Neill and Ryder Hesjedal. Industry estimates put Horner's market value at between $200,000 and $300,000. Horner said there are "seven or eight" teams he would like to ride for in 2008.



He actually knows what his paycheck SHOULD be. And he can prove it. Ask a top 20 guy in Worlds what their 'VALUE" is and see what answer you get. Ask a top 20 guy in the US what their "VALUE" is.
Wow....to think, I might be willing to bet that the top 5 might even know that answer!

[deadatbirth]

damn, i still hope they are gonna sell the RN01. ill sell all my dh bikes just for that whip.

[Transcend]

The writing has been on the wall for the past few weeks. This just confirms what everyone was pretty sure was coming. At least they did it early enough to allow the riders to find new contracts.

[Cant Climb]

Road teams got money, even during this lull.

Gravity mtb teams got jack.
Any outside money coming in will be sporadic and random (see Honda).

[Zutroy]

It does seem to me, like most of the XC/Road/Triathlon elite tend to look at racing as more of a job, and like any job no matter how much you like it, you still want to get paid.

I think the DH set tend to look at it more as a hobby/lifestyle and as long as some one is footing part of the bill they're happy.

Some guys have figured it out EC and BL come to mind.

[Zutroy]

Road teams got money, even during this lull.

Gravity mtb teams got jack.
Any outside money coming in will be sporadic and random (see Honda).

That's because we let it happen, people are ok with the status quo. Before LeMond one his second tour roadies got paid jack. He came in the next year and said listen i bust my ass i help sell bikes I want to be paid fairly. He walked away with a 1+ million dollar contract.

That was by far the largest contract ever given to any rider, and now it's nothing special.

[TGR]

fairclough to santa-cruz?
wasn't he peat's protegé or something like that?

[S.K.C.]

Wow.

That's insane. Honda and HRC brought so much to the international DH scene in the way of new tech, amazing rider support, etc...

HRC really believed that the RN01 wouldn't be a viable product? Even in a yearly limited production run basis?

That sucks - especially for Fairclough being the new guy on the team so to speak.

Man, the end of this season has been nuts.

Minaar goes to Haro... Intense to build a re-issue Haro Werx DHR for 08'... FRO version.

:biggrin:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/CK_123/haro_dhr_blue_frame.jpg

[TGR]

Wow.

That's insane. Honda and HRC brought so much to the international DH scene in the way of new tech, amazing rider support, etc...

HRC really believed that the RN01 wouldn't be a viable product? Even in a yearly limited production run basis?

That sucks - especially for Fairclough being the new guy on the team so to speak.

Man, the end of this season has been nuts.

Minaar goes to Haro... Intense to build a re-issue Haro Werx DHR for 08'... FRO version.
:biggrin:

ugly bike


well they'll probably just take a socom and slap some haro stickers on it(like they did with the m-1/werkx dhr something)... :D

[seand]

:eek::eek::eek:

Kovarik,Barel,Minnaar,Fairclough.....There are teams for all these riders !!!!!!!!???????????

As far as I was aware, Barel was still rocking the Kona...has something changed? I don't see anything on his site about it :shocked:

[Cant Climb]

I think the DH set tend to look at it more as a hobby/lifestyle and as long as some one is footing part of the bill they're happy.

Great point......

[dante]

If DH bikes sold in the same manner as road bikes (both in overall numbers and at full retail) you'd see DHers making the same salaries. Get more mountains opened up, get more people involved in the sport, etc. Remember, road biking has a 100 year head start on DH...

[dropmachine.com]

Road also has considerably more attraction to a wider range of people. Not many 35+ doctors want to get out on a hill after a golf game and fly down a mountain. Road is much more peaceful. That helps it appeal to a much wider buying base, so, it makes more sense to advertise there.

[Toshi]

If DH bikes sold in the same manner as road bikes (both in overall numbers and at full retail) you'd see DHers making the same salaries. Get more mountains opened up, get more people involved in the sport, etc. Remember, road biking has a 100 year head start on DH...

road biking also has the advantage of not requiring riders to go many hours out of their ways (on average, my guess) to find even quasi-legal riding spots.

i sold my dh bike when i realized that driving from seattle to vancouver or whistler each weekend was ridiculous.

[Akula_7]

A lot of guys in Japan are gonna be out of a ride too.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2068/1559069489_50fcdbbac8.jpg?v=0

[bizutch]

.... Road is much more peaceful. .......

Say that after taking a spin down here in ye ole south....:D

[John P.]

road biking also has the advantage of not requiring riders to go many hours out of their ways (on average, my guess) to find even quasi-legal riding spots.

i sold my dh bike when i realized that driving from seattle to vancouver or whistler each weekend was ridiculous.

You should have just moved back east! ;-)

Seriously, though, I live on the coast of Maine, and I can count at least 12 lift-serviced bike parks within a 5 hour drive of my house (inlcuding 3 within 2 hours). Guys in MA, NH, and VT have it even better.

At this point, in terms of convenience, it doesn't seem much more difficult to get into DHing than it does to get into skiing/snowboarding if you live in the right areas. I wonder whether it's just a matter of marketing or if it will really take a fundamental paradigm shift to kick the whole culture in the ass?

Anyway, sucks to see Honda gone. :( They brought a level of professionalism to the scene that was unprecedented.

--JP

[Toshi]

ah, but the skiing comparison is apt, and does not play in dh's favor: there are no less than 6 ski areas within 3h of seattle (alpental, snoqualmie, white pass, stevens pass, crystal, baker). none of them offer summer lift service for biking, even though a handful of them did in past years.

i suppose the east coast's abundance of summer lift service makes up for the lack of snow that those same lifts "service" in the winter.

;)

[bizutch]

ah, but the skiing comparison is apt, and does not play in dh's favor: there are no less than 6 ski areas within 3h of seattle (alpental, snoqualmie, white pass, stevens pass, crystal, baker). none of them offer summer lift service for biking, even though a handful of them did in past years.

i suppose the east coast's abundance of summer lift service makes up for the lack of snow that those same lifts "service" in the winter.

;)

doesn't it pretty much piss the rain on that whole area during the summer?

[jeremyb]

Road teams got money, even during this lull.

Gravity mtb teams got jack.
Any outside money coming in will be sporadic and random (see Honda).

Downhill is a fringe sport whereas road is super mainstream, you just have to look at the Tour De France, most watched sporting event in the world with like 2 billion TV viewers and 800,000 spectators on average for each stage, thats why they get the money, if DH can produce the people watching the sponsors will come :)

[demo 9]

what happens with the team bikes?

[xy9ine]

what happens with the team bikes?
off to the crusher

[Mike Buell]

what happens with the team bikes?
They get locked up in the most secure container known to man and sent into space.

[jbogner]

Road riding is more peaceful? I've got a sprained finger from getting doored at 59th and 5th on my way back from riding in Central Park on Friday. The trails are a peaceful oasis compared to riding the road around here.

[kidwoo]

doesn't it pretty much piss the rain on that whole area during the summer?

No, that's what it does in winter :rofl:


Mt baker excluded of course.

[DHOatmeal]

That totally sucks..

What's more is I recall reading on this forum a few members stating.. "my honda inside source tells me production bike will be out xxx and to wait it out." LOL watever! safe to say those member's credibility is out the window.

It really too bad though. Having honda or any large organizations in this sport could only be a good thing.

[bizutch]

Welcome newbie.

Lesson 1 of posting on RM:

Loss of any and all credibility is instant! Welcome to Incredibility :thinK

[Cant Climb]

Not many 35+ doctors want to get out on a hill after a golf game and fly down a mountain.

Good one.

This is the same demographic that suits up in full body armor just to go on a basic xc ride.......

[Transcend]

Actually, according to Honda, they did intend on selling it. They went as far as having dealers in Japan order frames and had a few dealer meetings with all of the brochures, display bikes etc.

They then realized they have no way to control quality overseas and canned the entire project. I am assuming their moto network in the US wanted nothing to do with pedal bikes. No production version and all of their data has been aquired, why stay in it?

[dropmachine.com]

They then realized they have no way to control quality overseas and canned the entire project.


That makes absolutely no sense. You're teling me Honda has no quality control on their bikes? Moto included? The entire corporation, arguably producing some of the best engine products in the world, simply sends thier **** out for manufacturing and says "Yoshi, Cross yer fingers that out **** comes back straight."

I think whats far more likely is a) DH means piss all to a company like Honda, in terms of money b) They learned what they needed to, or didn't, and figured it was time to leave or c) realized the investment they had just wasn't worth it.

Either way, sucks to have them go. I would say Honda backing out after such a large investment speaks volumes to any other corporate sponsor that might have thought about pitching in.

[DHperu]

this sucks...HONDA was THE DH team. Hope Minnaar and Fairclough get a good deal on some team...anybody want to star the rumor mill??? Hope minnaar goes back to orange that would be siick hahaha

[Transcend]

That makes absolutely no sense. You're teling me Honda has no quality control on their bikes? Moto included? The entire corporation, arguably producing some of the best engine products in the world, simply sends thier **** out for manufacturing and says "Yoshi, Cross yer fingers that out **** comes back straight."

Ok, sure. Dispute what Honda has announced publicly, after having had dealer meetings and take pre-orders in Japan.

I'm telling you honda cannot control post sales service quality over here as they would have to deal with bike shops and not their dedicated, trained moto shop.

This from a guy who was at the dealer meetings, and with a photo of the letter from Honda to dealers explaining the cancellation.
"Honda decided to give up to sell RN01G because of they could not keep "Honda Quality" in outside of Japan.

This news was informed to Japanese bike dealers by express mail. Honda dream was over...."

I can guarantee you they "had the intention". Their PR people have confirmed it, they had meetings with dealers to learn about the bike and pre order a few months ago in Japan.

[DHOatmeal]

HONDA is huge.. they have spent 1 billion in Formula One.. also (rumour) $150 Million (3year) to Fernando Alonso. No way to control quality overseas?? Would liek to know more.. In comparison with other Car manufacturer.. i wouldnt be surprised through out the years HONDA's industry first when it comes to quality.

Maybe they had intention maybe they didnt but maybe other factors into play. regardless sad to see them go.

[MinorThreat]

HONDA is huge.. they have spent 1 billion in Formula One.. also (rumour) $150 Million (3year) to Fernando Alonso. No way to control quality overseas?? Would like to know more.. In comparison with other Car manufacturer.. i wouldnt be surprised through out the years HONDA's industry first when it comes to quality.

Maybe they had intention maybe they didnt but maybe other factors into play. regardless sad to see them go.I think what Transcend's saying is that a Honda bicycle would be at the mercy of the hacks at a local bicycle shop and not Honda factory-trained moto mechanics through their own dealer network. Never mind that the standard for DH is to sell a frame (or frame/fork) only and then get built up by the owner with an amalgamation of parts that Honda would have no say over.

Honda supplies thoroughly R&Ded, turnkey-down-to-the-last-spoke-nipple piece of equipment for the given sport. Downhill mountain bikes fit that model poorly.

Plus, I think you answered your own question when you started talking about the dollars in their other ventures. Face it, DH is big stuff to us but a pissant drop in the bucket to a huge global powerhouse like Honda Motor Co. They originally allowed a few R&D guys who were into biking play around with some ideas and make some bikes. They did that, learned what they wanted to from it and are moving on. Too bad for us but understandable.

[DHOatmeal]

I think what Transcend's saying is that a Honda bicycle would be at the mercy of the hacks at a local bicycle shop and not Honda factory-trained moto mechanics through their own dealer network. Never mind that the standard for DH is to sell a frame (or frame/fork) only and then get built up by the owner with an amalgamation of parts that Honda would have no say over.

Honda supplies thoroughly R&Ded, turnkey-down-to-the-last-spoke-nipple piece of equipment for the given sport. Downhill mountain bikes fit that model poorly.

Plus, I think you answered your own question when you started talking about the dollars in their other ventures. Face it, DH is big stuff to us but a pissant drop in the bucket to a huge global powerhouse like Honda Motor Co. They originally allowed a few R&D guys who were into biking play around with some ideas and make some bikes. They did that, learned what they wanted to from it and are moving on. Too bad for us but understandable.


ahh thx for the explanation. Makes sense.

[dropmachine.com]

Ok, sure. Dispute what Honda has announced publicly, after having had dealer meetings and take pre-orders in Japan.

I'm telling you honda cannot control post sales service quality over here as they would have to deal with bike shops and not their dedicated, trained moto shop.

Right. I forgot that companies always tell the truth, and the whole truth at that. ;)

Theres gotta be more to it. They could easily control which shops the bikes got into, and make sure it was the ones that knew what they were doing. Its not that hard, its called research. Something tells me Honda is pretty decent at this research stuff.

I see what you mean though. The loss of fanatical control over your brand drives many companies bonkers. But in the end, you wanna sell products, then you gotta do what you can. I don't see Honda flipping out over thier lawmowers being sold in Walmart, or sketchy mom and pop hardware stores, and I am willing to bet lawmowers would account for a much larger sales number then bikes ever could.

My guess is they simply looked at DH and realized from a business sense, its a waste of time.

[jbogner]

they had meetings with dealers to learn about the bike and pre order a few months ago in Japan.

And after tepid response from dealers decided to can the whole enterprise while having their PR people spin it into a story about Honda's unyielding commitment to quality service? Sure, I buy that...

[xy9ine]

I am willing to bet lawmowers would account for a much larger sales number then bikes ever could..
sad but true

[Smelly]

I don't see Honda flipping out over thier lawmowers being sold in Walmart, or sketchy mom and pop hardware stores, and I am willing to bet lawmowers would account for a much larger sales number then bikes ever could.

Not a good analogy. Maybe your mowing style is different from mine, but I don't crash my lawnmower in rockgardens too frequently. And when was the last time you snapped the handlebar on your lawnmower? Replaced the tires on those plastic wheels?
Consider the performance and maintence standards of a lawnmower compared to a DH bike. It's probably easier to design and build a lawnmower that will work for years on end with no maintence than a DH bike that will work for six months with no maintenence.

My guess is they simply looked at DH and realized from a business sense, its a waste of time.

agreed.

[John P.]

Favorite Team G-Cross Honda Memory:

Must have been '03, give or take a year, and we were out in Durango at the NORBA Finals (back when the NORBA series was remotely respectable). Sunday after the race, everyone's packing up and getting ready to fly to Europe for the Worlds. All over the pits, mechanics and riders are ripping apart bikes and shoving them in beat-up cardboard boxes for the trip - sort of reminded me of that period right after Interbike ends when the convention center goes from a show room to a junkyard in about 30 seconds. Anyway, as Heikki and I walked past the Honda pit, there wasn't a cardboard box or bike case to be found anywhere. Instead, they were busy BUILDING A WOODEN CRATE around Minaar's fully assembled bike, which I assume was then loaded up and airfreighted to the next event.

I think that's the day the term "pwn3d" was invented. :)

-JP

[General Lee]

i think the average DH rider does a better job taking care of their lawnmower than their DH bikes. couldn't believe the number of brand new bikes i saw clapped out at the US Open, and it wasn't even June yet. . . . of course they'll all blame it on the manufacturer:plthumbsdown:

[General Lee]

Favorite Team G-Cross Honda Memory:

Must have been '03, give or take a year, and we were out in Durango at the NORBA Finals (back when the NORBA series was remotely respectable). Sunday after the race, everyone's packing up and getting ready to fly to Europe for the Worlds. All over the pits, mechanics and riders are ripping apart bikes and shoving them in beat-up cardboard boxes for the trip - sort of reminded me of that period right after Interbike ends when the convention center goes from a show room to a junkyard in about 30 seconds. Anyway, as Heikki and I walked past the Honda pit, there wasn't a cardboard box or bike case to be found anywhere. Instead, they were busy BUILDING A WOODEN CRATE around Minaar's fully assembled bike, which I assume was then loaded up and airfreighted to the next event.

I think that's the day the term "pwn3d" was invented. :)

-JP

they actually had custom made bike cases complete with frame/fork mounts. like a huge version of what we would put some of our power tools in.

[MinorThreat]

If you've ever uncrated a Japanese motorcyle for assembly for the showroom (my after-school job in high school was assembling Suzukis), you'd appreciate the attention to detail and protection that goes into their packaging.

[jp3d]

Honda supplies thoroughly R&Ded, turnkey-down-to-the-last-spoke-nipple piece of equipment for the given sport. Downhill mountain bikes fit that model poorly.


They do whatever makes money, like anyone else.

exhibit A:
http://www.fogdog.com/graphics/product_images/p3453296dt.jpg

[DownhillR3]

Good one.

This is the same demographic that suits up in full body armor just to go on a basic xc ride.......


:rofl::rofl:

[Matchew]

My favorite memory from the Honda team was at the 05 NORBA national. The team kept all of the bikes enclosed in a white tent in the back of the pit. I noticed one of the door flaps was opened a little and tried to sneak a peak from a distance. I caught a quick glimpse of the gearbox before one of the mechs pointed at me and slammed the flap shut. That made me realize just how serious they were about keeping that thing a secret.

If you've ever uncrated a Japanese motorcyle for assembly for the showroom (my after-school job in high school was assembling Suzukis), you'd appreciate the attention to detail and protection that goes into their packaging.

Unlike most Mountain or road bikes where i swear they hire a kid to kick every box right where the derailleur hanger is.

[bcd]

off to the crusher

going to ebay, you should bid on one!

[Demomonkey]

Not a good analogy. Maybe your mowing style is different from mine, but I don't crash my lawnmower in rockgardens too frequently. And when was the last time you snapped the handlebar on your lawnmower? Replaced the tires on those plastic wheels?
Consider the performance and maintence standards of a lawnmower compared to a DH bike. It's probably easier to design and build a lawnmower that will work for years on end with no maintence than a DH bike that will work for six months with no maintenence.



agreed.

Hmmmm, the analogy was good and bad.

What about the bikes branded Honda that sell in Walmart or the Mountain Cycle bikes that were branded Honda a few years ago? What control does Honda have over those? Besides, Lawnmower racing is a growing sport......

I wonder if them not winning the WC overall or World Champs had anything to do with it?

Also

Loss of consumer confidence in US domestic market
Falling US dollar
Increase in Materials cost

[lockstock]

I wonder if them not winning the WC overall



Greg did win the WC overall on a Honda

[Ian Collins]

Heck, Specialized and Trek are the two biggest MTB brands there are

giant too?

[WBC]

giant too? It's not like Giant produces frames for Trek and Specialized or anything....

[deadatbirth]

HONDA is huge.. they have spent 1 billion in Formula One.. also (rumour) $150 Million (3year) to Fernando Alonso.
wait...since when did Alonso sign with Honda? When did Button or Barrichello get the boot?
and theyve spent over a billion over the years theyve been back in F1...plus there are a ton of smaller companies that have spent more over the years that are significantly smaller than Honda ie: Ferrari, Williams, Mclaren, BMW

but back on point, im sure Honda wouldnt build these bikes in their own factories and take away from something more profitable like motorcycles or cars. so their QC wouldnt be up to their standards.

[deadatbirth]

My favorite memory from the Honda team was at the 05 NORBA national. The team kept all of the bikes enclosed in a white tent in the back of the pit. I noticed one of the door flaps was opened a little and tried to sneak a peak from a distance. I caught a quick glimpse of the gearbox before one of the mechs pointed at me and slammed the flap shut. That made me realize just how serious they were about keeping that thing a secret.

i remember mt snow in '06 where they let me check out their sweeeet showa forks with no issue....after i begged of course.

[klunky]

So how many F1 cars do Honda sell?

[lockstock]

So how many F1 cars do Honda sell?

haha they sold there fastest 2 last year, to super aguri

[bohorec]

So how many F1 cars do Honda sell?

There are milions of F1 viewers and parhaps few 1000 DH viewers (if there is a broadcast).

[Panza]

Honda's departure isn't that bad for racing after all. Besides being a big company, what have they done for racing outside their team? Any further sponsoring or spreading of their money? No. Did they strike with a spectacular appearance except for those bikes? No. Even their "gearbox" was far from what's presented by Nicolai or other developers. Neither those special components used in the bike nor a participating manufacturer (Showa) hit the mtb market. What Honda did, they did for themselves with almost no contribution to the sport.
They definitely had a great team with some great riders. I like all of them, they're phantastic guys. And since Martin (Whiteley) is probably the man with the best connections within the racing circuit they shouldn't worry too much about next season. All they need is a new frame from a financially strong company. There already is some rumble in the jungle.

What racing really needs is more presence in the mainstream sports media. Still TV appearance attracts more outside sponsors then all our cool internet videos and end-of-season-films together. It's changing slowly but many companies are still very conservative concerning this point. Besides, TV is convenient - the show comes to you while on the net you have to look it up yourself.
Currently we're working hard on this issue for the upcoming season. That get's us to another big hurdle constraining a successful development of the sport - the UCI. But I'm not even gonna start on this one...

[bohorec]

Honda's departure isn't that bad for racing after all. Besides being a big company, what have they done for racing outside their team?

They made this sport more interesting, besides it can not be very good for DH, if the leading team withdrows from racing.


What Honda did, they did for themselves...


Just like all other companies involved, since there is no charity in WC racing.

However it would be nice if they would return in this sport and start to sell the RN01, because it would be nice to have one.

[Dogboy]

They made this sport more interesting, besides it can not be very good for DH, if the leading team withdrows from racing.
Say again? I didn't get the memo about them being the leading team.

I'll agree that they were interesting and had tons of talent on board, but they were pretty much a novelty in the sense that they were racing aboard bikes that were not commercially available (even as a "replica" bike).

[General Lee]

Say again? I didn't get the memo about them being the leading team.

I'll agree that they were interesting and had tons of talent on board, but they were pretty much a novelty in the sense that they were racing aboard bikes that were not commercially available (even as a "replica" bike).


hmmmmm . . . #1 trade team several years running, highest funded, best supported, highest profile, and most professionally run team on the circuit. Simply put, no other team can match the Honda program on any level.

[Dogboy]

hmmmmm . . . #1 trade team several years running, highest funded, best supported, highest profile, and most professionally run team on the circuit. Simply put, no other team can match the Honda program on any level.

Forgive my ignorance, but are trade teams ranked by the UCI? I couldn't find a list. I was just going by WC series and championship wins (in my head). Doesn't seem like they would be tops, but I may very well be wrong.

[MinorThreat]

What racing really needs is more presence in the mainstream sports media...This will not happen until downhill gets reinvented as something totally other than what it is right now. DH is not a spectator-friendly sport. One person against the clock down a course that cannot be mostly seen from one point. It is too akin to downhill skiing, which at least has the interest-factor of being an Olympic sport.

DH needs to be reinvented into a race - - competitor against competitor - - to have any television value. Mountaincross came close when it replaced lame (and also borrowed directly from skiing) dual slalom. But the courses are too groomed and short to spark any real spectator-appeal competition. It's kind of like indoor short track M/C racing: the hole shot takes the checker.

Look at what Supercross and Arenacross did for motorcycle racing. Motocross was an enthusiast-only sport for the most part, except for once a year you got Carlsbad on ABC's Wide World of Sports. Then some cagey promoter took motocross, jammed it in an arena, gave the track some ridiculously-extreme features and turned too many guys loose to bang handlebars. Average Joe sports spectator showed up to watch and people like Jean-Michele Bayle and Jeremy McGrath became household words.

[General Lee]

Forgive my ignorance, but are trade teams ranked by the UCI? I couldn't find a list. I was just going by WC series and championship wins (in my head). Doesn't seem like they would be tops, but I may very well be wrong.

Paragraph 4 of the press release from page 1:

"The correctness of direction, and our approach, has been validated by the fact that we have been the number one international team for the past 2 years, and proven by the race results including acquisition of the NORBA title (2004) and UCI World Cup title (2005)."

and posted on the UCI's 2007 world cup page under rankings:
http://www.nissan-ucimtbworldcup.com/en/Standings/Teams_standings/index.cfm?Discipline=DH&Sex=EM
:poster_oops:

[Dogboy]

Thanks for the info Lee. I could not find those rankings on the UCI site. I stand corrected. :imstupid:

[dropmachine.com]

This will not happen until downhill gets reinvented as something totally other than what it is right now. DH is not a spectator-friendly sport. One person against the clock down a course that cannot be mostly seen from one point. It is too akin to downhill skiing, which at least has the interest-factor of being an Olympic sport.



Not to mention Ski hills and courses are generally devoid of trees and other such camera-blocking annoyances. Its hard to film DH due to many of the trails being so enclosed.

[bizutch]

Let's all shut up and go ride our bikes....really.....REALLY fast!

[Zutroy]

Not to mention Ski hills and courses are generally devoid of trees and other such camera-blocking annoyances. Its hard to film DH due to many of the trails being so enclosed.

Don't a lot of the WC courses have camera coverage on them?

[Transcend]

Don't a lot of the WC courses have camera coverage on them?

Yes, and on some of them it is superb. On some of them it sucks.

[Zutroy]

Yes, and on some of them it is superb. On some of them it sucks.

It would seem that as time goes on this would get easier to do since TV cameras are getting smaller and lighter, would be easier to get them up in the woods.

[bizutch]

Skiers also have sponsors like:
Mercedez
Rolex
Bulova
Cartier
Gucci
Diesel
Porsche
Motorola

[Zutroy]

Skiers also have sponsors like:
Mercedez
Rolex
Bulova
Cartier
Gucci
Diesel
Porsche
Motorola

True, because they work at getting them. MTB racing doesn't seem to have marketing skills many other sports seem too. I think a lot of the guys running other types of racing are much more hungry for success.

[Cant Climb]

Forgive my ignorance, but are trade teams ranked by the UCI? I couldn't find a list. I was just going by WC series and championship wins (in my head). Doesn't seem like they would be tops, but I may very well be wrong.

Ranking the trade teams doesn't carry the weight it used too......makes for good PR blabber for 23 Degrees though.

Back when they were multiple huge factory teams it meant alot.....

[Ozzer]

It would seem that as time goes on this would get easier to do since TV cameras are getting smaller and lighter, would be easier to get them up in the woods.


I think the recent release of the MTB Flick -Illusionary LInes - really showed a cool potential for a future race coverage. Some clips showed the racer from the start gate and almost all the way to the finish with split times and all.

Imagine a WC Live coverage televised from top to bottom and Steve Hobbs as the commentator. :p

yeah...uhm

[bizutch]

I think the recent release of the MTB Flick -Illusionary LInes - really showed a cool potential for a future race coverage. Some clips showed the racer from the start gate and almost all the way to the finish with split times and all.

Imagine a WC Live coverage televised from top to bottom and Steve Hobbs as the commentator. :p

yeah...uhm

The chick in your avatar is my next DH bike. Gonna huck it.

[MinorThreat]

I think the recent release of the MTB Flick -Illusionary LInes - really showed a cool potential for a future race coverage. Some clips showed the racer from the start gate and almost all the way to the finish with split times and all.

Imagine a WC Live coverage televised from top to bottom and Steve Hobbs as the commentator. :p

yeah...uhmThe fact remains that no matter how many cameras you train on it, it's still just one person on the course against a clock. It appeals to us because we understand it.

Think back to the last winter Olympics - - what was more fun/interesting to watch: downhill or boarder-cross?

Downhill needs the equivalent of a J.C. Agajanian to kick it into gear as a spectator (and thus TV) draw.

[dhkid]

well, one good thing that i can think of that has come from this is that dw might finally get back to working on gearboxes? he stop working on them because he said honda had loads of patent on it and he would be better focusing his efforts else where...but he is busy with orion or what ever its called now...:monkeydance:

[Transcend]

well, one good thing that i can think of that has come from this is that dw might finally get back to working on gearboxes? he stop working on them because he said honda had loads of patent on it and he would be better focusing his efforts else where...but he is busy with orion or what ever its called now...:monkeydance:

Well the fact would remain that Honda would still have those patents, whether they are actively in the game or not...

[Toshi]

well, one good thing that i can think of that has come from this is that dw might finally get back to working on gearboxes? he stop working on them because he said honda had loads of patent on it and he would be better focusing his efforts else where...but he is busy with orion or what ever its called now...:monkeydance:

if this was indeed true then nothing has changed: honda's patents don't magically disappear along with their racing presence.

[dhkid]

Well the fact would remain that Honda would still have those patents, whether they are actively in the game or not...

true, but the fact that they are not going to be in the game anymore or be producing any bike products could be enough of a reason for dw to do something? i am sure dw didn't continue with his work on gearboxes because he was thinking that one day honda would be selling them and offer a good product, even by dw's standards?

[bizutch]

true, but the fact that they are not going to be in the game anymore or be producing any bike products could be enough of a reason for dw to do something? i am sure dw didn't continue with his work on gearboxes because he was thinking that one day honda would be selling them and offer a good product, even by dw's standards?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the opposite? I thought DW mentioned something to the effect of possibly working WITH Honda on something?

[dhkid]

he didn't name the company, but he is right now working with big brand bike company on his orion suspension, the dw link tuned for bikes.

[bikenweed]

Well, let's quit bitching and simply GET DH RACING INTO THE OLYMPICS!

If XC, BMX and Skateboarding are all Olympic sports, getting DH in as well is completely feasible.

[Transcend]

Well, let's quit bitching and simply GET DH RACING INTO THE OLYMPICS!

If XC, BMX and Skateboarding are all Olympic sports, getting DH in as well is completely feasible.

Which other summer games sports need a venue limiting mountain nearby? Also, to add another cycling event they need to drop one. Each sport is limited to the amount of disciplines it can have. They have already had to dump a ton of road and track based events to get in XC and BMX and the roadies are up in arms.

[Zutroy]

Which other summer games sports need a venue limiting mountain nearby? Also, to add another cycling event they need to drop one. Each sport is limited to the amount of disciplines it can have. They have already had to dump a ton of road and track based events to get in XC and BMX and the roadies are up in arms.

Yep, personally i don't think they should cut anymore road or track events.

[Ozzer]

Speaking of BMX in the Olympics, there shld be some e-spuculations on whether the world will see BMXers and groms with low rider pants and chain wallets on TV. Oh wait, the world has seen it...the Xgames. :p

Like Kendall said, quit bitchin. Why not put Slopestyle in the Olympics while we're at it?

This whole who's riding for who kinda thingie reminds me of basketball players (and this was my first sport) yapping and moaning about player trades and free agents. In reality, all these transactions do not have anything to do with their lives or the way they play. Silly.

[Toshi]

you were an asian basketball player?! :D

i agree that this is all silly, however, even if i would have bought a honda dh bike given half a chance.

[Ozzer]

you were an asian basketball player?! :D

i agree that this is all silly, however, even if i would have bought a honda dh bike given half a chance.

That's an asian baller with a 42"+ vertical leap (then), sir. :p

I would have sold some body parts for a Honda frame too..but not because of who rode it and what not. It's just hawt..

[Toshi]

42"? good lawd.

http://smith.mn/nbashort/mugsy1.jpg

[gemini2k]

Which other summer games sports need a venue limiting mountain nearby? Also, to add another cycling event they need to drop one. Each sport is limited to the amount of disciplines it can have. They have already had to dump a ton of road and track based events to get in XC and BMX and the roadies are up in arms.

Wurd. With chicago in the running for the summer games......Kind of nixes places like that. If you've never been to Illinois lemme tell you.....no DH here!