‘A nightmare with no end in sight’

[Reactor]

By Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube


ARLINGTON, Va. - A "failure of the national political leadership" is responsible for the “nightmare” of the Iraq war, retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez said Friday.

If some of America’s political leaders were in the military they would have been relieved or court-martialed long ago, Sanchez told a conference of military journalists.

"Neglect and incompetence" by the National Security Council has led to an intractable situation in Iraq, the former commander of coalition forces in Iraq said.

The rest at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21272663/?from=ET

Interesting. Now that he's retired he doesn't have to tow the line anymore.

[DaveW]

Bring on the swiftboats.........Oh wait he's army? Should that be "Swift Hummers"?

[Reactor]

Bring on the swiftboats.........Oh wait he's army? Should that be "Swift Hummers"?

Hummers for truth(iness)?

[DaveW]

Only if you want him impeached.

[Silver]

By Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube


ARLINGTON, Va. - A "failure of the national political leadership" is responsible for the “nightmare” of the Iraq war, retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez said Friday.



And there is obviously no blame to be laid at the feet of the generals who for the sake of their own career answered, "Yes!" when Bush trotted them out on TV and asked if they had everything they needed.

Thanks for showing up five years too late guys...we don't really need brilliant analysis like Sanchez's at this point. What's he going to follow this up with? Maybe he'll break the news that JFK died of a gunshot wound?

[DaveW]

And there is obviously no blame to be laid at the feet of the generals who for the sake of their own career answered, "Yes!" when Bush trotted them out on TV and asked if they had everything they needed.

Thanks for showing up five years too late guys...we don't really need brilliant analysis like Sanchez's at this point. What's he going to follow this up with? Maybe he'll break the news that JFK died of a gunshot wound?

Given the way dear leader George Joke-il is now wanting to attack Iran (without fixing the first 2 messes) I'd call it a timely reminder/pause for thought..........:lighten:

[ire]

Isn't that the guy involved in the Abu Ghraib mess?

<edit> It is, talk about the pot calling the kettle black....he sure as hell is no angel

[jimmydean]

He's a retired General, what would he know about war anyway?

[X3pilot]

As long as he and others who have been there and done that so to speak, they have more of right to say anything they damn well please.

[Silver]

As long as he and others who have been there and done that so to speak, they have more of right to say anything they damn well please.

Nobody in America has more of a right to speak than any other person, you delightful little fascist.

You're living proof that sometimes you have to take the bad with the good...

[X3pilot]

Nobody in America has more of a right to speak than any other person, you delightful little fascist.

You're living proof that sometimes you have to take the bad with the good...

If you have stepped up to pay for your share of your right to spout off like an asshat, thank you for your service.

If not, sit back, enjoy the freedom you have to spout like an asshat, thank a veteran next time you have the honor to meet one or STFU.

[blue]

Is this PAWNs new "Moron of the Month"? "Frother of the Fortnight"?

They come and go...

[Echo]

If you have stepped up to pay for your share of your right to spout off like an asshat, thank you for your service.

If not, sit back, enjoy the freedom you have to spout like an asshat, thank a veteran next time you have the honor to meet one or STFU.
So what you're saying is that people who fought for freedom deserve more freedom? That's pretty funny. We volunteered. It's not a favor if you expect something in return.

[X3pilot]

Is this PAWNs new "Moron of the Month"? "Frother of the Fortnight"?

They come and go...

Sorry to mess up your forum's routine. You guys are all absolutley right about everything and your leftist ideals are the saving grace for this mess that is our democracy. My bad! :nopity:

[X3pilot]

So what you're saying is that people who fought for freedom deserve more freedom? That's pretty funny. We volunteered. It's not a favor if you expect something in return.

No, I'm not. But when it comes to spouting opinions about the war, I feel that those that have actually BEEN in a war have more leeway when it comes to expressing their thoughts, either positive or negative. Everyone has a right to express their feelings about anything, but it seems those that oppose this war the most and are so demanding of their right to express their displeasure are the ones that are the least likely to step up and go defend their right to say it.

[narlus]

hey X3pilot, change yr avatar. Jaydee (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/member.php?u=75)'s already got that one and he's been here far longer. i originally thought he started suffering dementia.

[Echo]

No, I'm not. But when it comes to spouting opinions about the war, I feel that those that have actually BEEN in a war have more leeway when it comes to expressing their thoughts, either positive or negative. Everyone has a right to express their feelings about anything, but it seems those that oppose this war the most and are so demanding of their right to express their displeasure are the ones that are the least likely to step up and go defend their right to say it.
And yet when a soldier comes home from Iraq and says it's a stupid war and we are getting owned, he gets called a traitor and a pussy. You warmongers can't have it both ways. Most people who disagree with the war do not have a problem with the soldiers on the ground. The problem is that we shouldn't be there in the first place. And intelligent people don't need to hunt Arabs in the desert to be able to see that.

[X3pilot]

hey X3pilot, change yr avatar. Jaydee (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/member.php?u=75)'s already got that one and he's been here far longer. i originally thought he started suffering dementia.

Thanks, no offense meant!:poster_oops:

[X3pilot]

And yet when a soldier comes home from Iraq and says it's a stupid war and we are getting owned, he gets called a traitor and a pussy. You warmongers can't have it both ways. Most people who disagree with the war do not have a problem with the soldiers on the ground. The problem is that we shouldn't be there in the first place. And intelligent people don't need to hunt Arabs in the desert to be able to see that.

I agree that it's fvcked up when the troops that speak out are berated, that's my point. They have especially earned the right to say that. And FWIW, I'm not a warmonger, I'm retired military who had to go to the desert twice, once way back in the day of the first Gulf war and actually agree with the premise that we shouldn't be there but we are and that's that. My issue is the people that
1. Automatically call people a moron, idiot, etc when someone doesn't agree with their philosophy in a public forum
2. Preach about their "rights" to do this and that and have their personal freedoms but yet fail to understand what is required to acquire and maintain those things.

[Echo]

I am also ex-military and have been to the Middle East. And I strongly feel that when I served, one of the reasons I was there was so that everyone could share the same freedoms. I certainly never expected anyone to take my views as somehow superior because of my service. Respect is earned, and there are many other ways to earn it than shooting Arabs.

[X3pilot]

I am also ex-military and have been to the Middle East. And I strongly feel that when I served, one of the reasons I was there was so that everyone could share the same freedoms. I certainly never expected anyone to take my views as somehow superior because of my service. Respect is earned, and there are many other ways to earn it than shooting Arabs.

Point taken. Thanks for debating with me without automatically throwing insults at me.

[Echo]

Point taken. Thanks for debating with me without automatically throwing insults at me.
Most of the people here do pretty well with taking and dishing out... thicken the skin and know when to agree to disagree, and it's a good place for some interesting discussions.

[Silver]

I agree that it's fvcked up when the troops that speak out are berated, that's my point. They have especially earned the right to say that. And FWIW, I'm not a warmonger, I'm retired military who had to go to the desert twice, once way back in the day of the first Gulf war and actually agree with the premise that we shouldn't be there but we are and that's that. My issue is the people that
1. Automatically call people a moron, idiot, etc when someone doesn't agree with their philosophy in a public forum
2. Preach about their "rights" to do this and that and have their personal freedoms but yet fail to understand what is required to acquire and maintain those things.

1. I called you a retard in another thread for posting a topic that ipso facto (since you didn't preface it with the sentence: "I'd be a retard if I thought this was correct:") proved you were in fact a retard. This had nothing to do with your philosophy, or mine.

2. I don't know if you've read the constitution lately, but those "rights" you talk about are not conditional on military service. At all. Not even a little bit. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

[X3pilot]

1. I called you a retard in another thread for posting a topic that ipso facto (since you didn't preface it with the sentence: "I'd be a retard if I thought this was correct:") proved you were in fact a retard. This had nothing to do with your philosophy, or mine.

2. I don't know if you've read the constitution lately, but those "rights" you talk about are not conditional on military service. At all. Not even a little bit. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

Again, thanks for judging me and your declaration that I am a retard carries some weight somewhere in your universe and again, I still submit you are giving me way too much credit and ask that you please stop insulting the retarded.

I have read the constitution and yes, I am aware that there are no conditions of military service attached to your rights.

Thank you, though, for the enlightenment.

Are you always this hateful?

[BurlyShirley]

Are you always this hateful?

Send him a PM with pictures of your cornhole and you'll have a friend for life.

[kidwoo]

Send him a PM with pictures of your cornhole and you'll have a friend for life.

In silver's defense, that will only work if it's sexy.

[BurlyShirley]

In silver's defense, that will only work if it's sexy.

I guess that's true. X3, make sure to scrape off any stalactites before you click the shutter.

[Silver]

In silver's defense, that will only work if it's sexy.

Hey, I appreciate all the work you go through waxing that thing. The bleaching was a nice touch as well...

[narlus]

I guess that's true. X3, make sure to scrape off any stalactites before you click the shutter.

take it to cornholefoto

[Reactor]

And there is obviously no blame to be laid at the feet of the generals who for the sake of their own career answered, "Yes!" when Bush trotted them out on TV and asked if they had everything they needed.

Thanks for showing up five years too late guys...we don't really need brilliant analysis like Sanchez's at this point. What's he going to follow this up with? Maybe he'll break the news that JFK died of a gunshot wound?

So he's a dirty Sanchez?


Seriously, I'm other then the threat of en ding their careers I'm not sure why so many high level generals couldn't seem to find their balls while they were in power. Now Patreus is following in their footsteps.

[valve bouncer]

Sounds like someone has been taking Starship Troopers a little too seriously.

[ohio]

If not, sit back, enjoy the freedom you have to spout like an asshat, thank a veteran next time you have the honor to meet one or STFU.

How do you feel about the civilian leadership that sent the entire military to "defend our freedom" despite never serving (avoiding serving, even)?

[Transcend]

No, I'm not. But when it comes to spouting opinions about the war, I feel that those that have actually BEEN in a war have more leeway when it comes to expressing their thoughts, either positive or negative. Everyone has a right to express their feelings about anything, but it seems those that oppose this war the most and are so demanding of their right to express their displeasure are the ones that are the least likely to step up and go defend their right to say it.

That's pretty amusing. This war in particular is wasting billions upon billions of tax payer dollars that could be used to fixed a crumbling education/pension/social assistance/healthcare program. I am pretty sure tax payers in general have as much leeway as anyone else.

[X3pilot]

How do you feel about the civilian leadership that sent the entire military to "defend our freedom" despite never serving (avoiding serving, even)?

Pisses me off as well.

[X3pilot]

That's pretty amusing. This war in particular is wasting billions upon billions of tax payer dollars that could be used to fixed a crumbling education/pension/social assistance/healthcare program. I am pretty sure tax payers in general have as much leeway as anyone else.

Yep, the taxpayers are the ones the government is ultimately responsible to(supposedly). Never said they don't have a voice. Maybe I should have stated it as it bothers me when people who haven't been at war criticize someone who has for their opinions about the war they just fought in.

[MarinR00]

I have said this before, and I’ll say it again. The weakness of our country is the apathy and short attention span of the people. Now, I have to be careful what I say, but the fact that the American people have been blatantly lied to by politician after politician and still have not risen up against it, is insane to me. We have come to accept corruption and dishonesty in our government as the standard, not the exception. That is a bad thing, a very bad thing. This country is a shadow of what it could be.

That said, one of the Army values is Personal Courage. Speaking out, after you are retired and have secured your pension, in no way endears me to you. General Sanchez was the boss here, my first time over. He never said anything. The only general who has spoken out, was General Shinseki. He was "rewarded" for his courage to speak out, by being fired. (He was the one who said that Iraq would take a decade with a few hundred thousand Soldiers. Hmmm, seems about right.) His boss, Tom White (SEC ARMY) was fired because he defended Shinseki.

That is the precedent that was set under Dummy-Rummy and, while Mr. Gates has gone to extraordinary lengths to break that mold, I am afraid that the same feeling lingers.

Come down and ask the guys who leave the wire every day and you’ll get a much different picture.