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MikeD
09-22-2007, 08:55 PM
Looks big...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2512380.ece

Snatched: Israeli commandos ‘nuclear’ raid
Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, Sarah Baxter, Washington, and Michael Sheridan
ISRAELI commandos from the elite Sayeret Matkal unit – almost certainly dressed in Syrian uniforms – made their way stealthily towards a secret military compound near Dayr az-Zawr in northern Syria. They were looking for proof that Syria and North Korea were collaborating on a nuclear programme.

Israel had been surveying the site for months, according to Washington and Israeli sources. President George W Bush was told during the summer that Israeli intelligence suggested North Korean personnel and nuclear-related material were at the Syrian site.

Israel was determined not to take any chances with its neighbour. Following the example set by its raid on an Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak 1981, it drew up plans to bomb the Syrian compound.

But Washington was not satisfied. It demanded clear evidence of nuclear-related activities before giving the operation its blessing. The task of the commandos was to provide it.

Today the site near Dayr az-Zawr lies in ruins after it was pounded by Israeli F15Is on September 6. Before the Israelis issued the order to strike, the commandos had secretly seized samples of nuclear material and taken them back into Israel for examination by scientists, the sources say. A laboratory confirmed that the unspecified material was North Korean in origin. America approved an attack.

News of the secret ground raid is the latest piece of the jigsaw to emerge about the mysterious Israeli airstrike. Israel has imposed a news blackout, but has not disguised its satisfaction with the mission. The incident also reveals the extent of the cooperation between America and Israel over nuclear-related security issues in the Middle East. The attack on what Israeli defence sources now call the “North Korean project” appears to be part of a wider, secret war against the nonconventional weapons ambitions of Syria and North Korea which, along with Iran, appears to have been forging a new “axis of evil”.

The operation was personally directed by Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, who is said to have been largely preoccupied with it since taking up his post on June 18.

It was the ideal mission for Barak, Israel’s most decorated soldier and legendary former commander of the Sayeret Matkal, which shares the motto “Who Dares Wins” with Britain’s SAS and specialises in intelligence-gathering deep behind enemy lines.

President Bush refused to comment on the air attack last week, but warned North Korea that “the exportation of information and/or materials” could jeopard-ise plans to give North Korea food aid, fuel and diplomatic recognition in exchange for ending its nuclear programmes.

Diplomats in North Korea and China said they believed a number of North Koreans were killed in the raid, noting that ballistic missile technicians and military scientists had been working for some time with the Syrians.

A senior Syrian official, Sayeed Elias Daoud, director of the Syrian Arab Ba’ath party, flew to North Korea via Beijing last Thursday, reinforcing the belief among foreign diplomats that the two nations are coordinating their response to the Israeli strike.

The growing assumption that North Korea suffered direct casualties in the raid appears to be based largely on the regime’s unusually strident propaganda on an issue far from home. But there were also indications of conversations between Chinese and North Korean officials and intelligence reports reaching Asian governments that supported the same conclusion, diplomats said.

Jane’s Defence Weekly reported last week that dozens of Iranian engineers and Syrians were killed in July attempting to load a chemical warhead containing mustard gas onto a Scud missile. The Scuds and warheads are of North Korean design and possibly manufacture, and there are recent reports that North Koreans were helping the Syrians to attach airburst chemical weapons to warheads.

Yesterday, while Israelis were observing Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, the military was on high alert after Syria promised to retaliate for the September 6 raid. An Israeli intelligence expert said: “Syria has retaliated in the past for much smaller humiliations, but they will choose the place, the time and the target.”

Critics of Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, believe he has shown poor judgment since succeeding his father Hafez, Syria’s long-time dictator, in 2000. According to David Schenker, of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, he has provoked the enmity of almost all Syria’s neighbours and turned his country into a “client” of Iran.

Barak’s return to government after making a fortune in private business was critical to the Israeli operation. Military experts believe it could not have taken place under Amir Peretz, the defence minister who was forced from the post after last year’s ill-fated war in Lebanon. “Barak gave Olmert the confidence needed for such a dangerous operation,” said one insider.

The unusual silence about the airstrikes amazed Israelis, who are used to talkative politicians. But it did not surprise the defence community. “Most Israeli special operations remain unknown,” said a defence source.

When Menachem Begin, then Israeli prime minister, broke the news of the 1981 Osirak raid, he was accused of trying to help his Likud party’s prospects in forthcoming elections.

Benjamin Netanyahu, who leads Likud today, faced similar criticism last week when he ignored the news blackout, revealed that he had backed the decision to strike and said he had congratulated Olmert. “I was a partner from the start,” he claimed.

But details of the raid are still tantalisingly incomplete. Some analysts in America are perplexed by photographs of a fuel tank said to have been dropped from an Israeli jet on its return journey over Turkey. It appears to be relatively undamaged. Could it have been planted to sow confusion about the route taken by the Israeli F-15I pilots?

More importantly, questions remain about the precise nature of the material seized and about Syria’s intentions. Was Syria hiding North Korean nuclear equipment while Pyongyang prepared for six-party talks aimed at securing an end to its nuclear weapons programme in return for security guarantees and aid? Did Syria want to arm its own Scuds with a nuclear device?

Or could the material have been destined for Iran as John Bolton, the former US ambassador to the United Nations, has suggested? And just how deep is Syrian and North Korean nuclear cooperation anyway?

China abruptly postponed a session of the nuclear disarmament talks last week because it feared America might confront the North Koreans over their weapons deals with Syria, according to sources close to the Chinese foreign ministry. Negotiations have been rescheduled for this Thursday in Beijing after assurances were given that all sides wished them to be “constructive”.

Christopher Hill, the US State Department negotiator, is said to have persuaded the White House that the talks offered a realistic chance to accomplish a peace treaty formally ending the 1950-1953 Korean war, in which more than 50,000 Americans died. A peace deal of that magnitude would be a coup for Bush – but only if the North Koreans genuinely abandon their nuclear programmes.

The outlines of a long-term arms relationship between the North Koreans and the Syrians are now being reexamined by intelligence experts in several capitals. Diplomats in Pyongyang have said they believe reports that about a dozen Syrian technicians were killed in a massive explosion and railway crash in North Korea on April 22, 2004.

Teams of military personnel wearing protective suits were seen removing debris from the section of the train in which the Syrians were travelling, according to a report quoting military sources that appeared in a Japanese newspaper. Their bodies were flown home by a Syrian military cargo plane that was spotted shortly after the explosion at Pyongyang airport.

In December last year, the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Seyassah quoted European intelligence sources in Brussels as saying that Syria was engaged in an advanced nuclear programme in its northeastern province.

Most diplomats and experts dismiss the idea that Syria could master the technical and industrial knowhow to make its own nuclear devices. The vital question is whether North Korea could have transferred some of its estimated 55 kilos of weapons-grade plutonium to Syria. Six to eight kilos are enough for one rudimentary bomb.

“If it is proved that Kim Jong-il sold fissile material to Syria in breach of every red line the Americans have drawn for him, what does that mean?” asked one official. The results of tests on whatever the Israelis may have seized from the Syrian site could therefore be of enormous significance.

The Israeli army has so far declined to comment on the attack. However, several days afterwards, at a gathering marking the Jewish new year, the commander-in-chief of the Israeli military shook hands with and congratulated his generals. The scene was broadcast on Israeli television. After the fiasco in Lebanon last year, it was regarded as a sign that “we’re back in business, guys”.

ALEXIS_DH
09-22-2007, 10:06 PM
Oh Noes!.

MarinR00
09-23-2007, 12:06 AM
Good article MikeD

I wouldn’t mess with the IDF. More so than any other country, they have the capability and have internalized the fact that no one else likes them. Talk about a free ticket to do what you want, especially when you have your big brother (America) standing behind you.

If this is true, then good job to Israel to stop this from happening. But all governments involved seem to be pretty mute about the subject. Most interestingly, Israel. In ’81 they could brag enough about their strike on the Iraqi Nuclear Plant. This time…. Not much from them.

Sounds like an episode of 24.

ire
09-23-2007, 12:23 AM
I wouldn’t mess with the IDF.

Yeah, they schooled Hezbollah last year.

valve bouncer
09-23-2007, 01:10 AM
The Syrians are playing a dangerous game right now. On one hand they seem to be working to keep Al Queda at bay but on the other hand they're stirring the Israelis up. Sounds like a recipe to have everyone pissed off at you.

DaveW
09-23-2007, 02:09 AM
The Syrians are playing a dangerous game right now. On one hand they seem to be working to keep Al Queda at bay but on the other hand they're stirring the Israelis up. Sounds like a recipe to have everyone pissed off at you.

You missed out Syria's other fave sport..... Blowing up Lebanese politician's (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4211347a12.html) :disgust:

Changleen
09-23-2007, 02:47 AM
Several aspects of the article smell like BS, but I will reserve judgement for the moment.

DaveW
09-23-2007, 02:51 AM
The writing style is rather "partisan"........ :twitch:

Changleen
09-23-2007, 03:01 AM
The writing style is rather "partisan"........ :twitch:Prose-like even.

ISRAELI commandos from the elite Sayeret Matkal unit – almost certainly dressed in Syrian uniforms – made their way stealthily towards a secret military compound near Dayr az-Zawr in northern Syria.The dusty road they travelled was partially lit from the new moon overhead, and a sense of tension filled the air!

:disgust1:

'Journalism'.

Changleen
09-23-2007, 04:09 AM
News of the secret ground raid is the latest piece of the jigsaw to emerge about the mysterious Israeli airstrike.Ooohhh!!! He caught site of the picture in the mirror, and all of a sudden he saw the secret message!

Changleen
09-23-2007, 04:09 AM
Mike, your article needs theme music.

rockwool
09-23-2007, 05:32 AM
About the smell of the article, I know the Israeli embassadors and consules, especially in the US, meet with the press for lunches and such and give them readily printed articles, that have come from Israeli governmental departments, to be used as templates for what to write about things that have happened conserning Israel.


What I don't understand is why they have a news blackout. Can somebody speculate on this thing better than I have managed to?

ire
09-23-2007, 06:04 AM
What I don't understand is why they have a news blackout. Can somebody speculate on this thing better than I have managed to?

Maybe to stir up fear? Keeping mute sends a stronger message than playing an incident (like the violation of airspace) off.

MikeD
09-23-2007, 09:39 AM
About the smell of the article, I know the Israeli embassadors and consules, especially in the US, meet with the press for lunches and such and give them readily printed articles, that have come from Israeli governmental departments, to be used as templates for what to write about things that have happened conserning Israel.


Hey, other consulates do that, too! Anyone smell a conspiracy? It's worldwide, I tell ya! Drill out the microchips in your heads before it's too late!

Anyhow, yeah, I'm interested to see what comes out of this--it could be pure propoganda, but I bet whatever happened is going to be really embarassing for the Syrians, who'd be screaming bloody murder if they didn't mind more international attention on the results of the raids. So whatever went on, they likely don't want to draw a crowd to it.

Of course, once you're known for crying wolf over supposed WMDs, it gets pretty hard to convince the world population that you're telling the truth, even if you are holding a smouldering lump of North Korean weapons-grade enriched plutonium...

MikeD
09-23-2007, 09:51 AM
Mike, your article needs theme music.

Well, since John Williams was busy this morning, we'll just recycle something from the "Munich" soundtrack, k?

Ed: How about Bowie's "Heroes?"

blue
09-23-2007, 11:43 AM
Well, since John Williams was busy this morning, we'll just recycle something from the "Munich" soundtrack, k?

Ed: How about Bowie's "Heroes?"

Only if you're queen. :pirate2:

rockwool
09-23-2007, 01:37 PM
Hey, other consulates do that, too! Anyone smell a conspiracy? It's worldwide, I tell ya! Drill out the microchips in your heads before it's too late!

Anyhow, yeah, I'm interested to see what comes out of this--it could be pure propoganda, but I bet whatever happened is going to be really embarassing for the Syrians, who'd be screaming bloody murder if they didn't mind more international attention on the results of the raids. So whatever went on, they likely don't want to draw a crowd to it.

Of course, once you're known for crying wolf over supposed WMDs, it gets pretty hard to convince the world population that you're telling the truth, even if you are holding a smouldering lump of North Korean weapons-grade enriched plutonium...

Never heared of any other countries doing that. Curious, which are they?

You're right about the Syrians being suspisiously quiet.

ALEXIS_DH
09-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Never heared of any other countries doing that. Curious, which are they?



stankonia for once.... evil bush supporters am telling you.

MikeD
09-23-2007, 01:45 PM
Never heared of any other countries doing that. Curious, which are they?



Every consulate of every country has a public diplomacy contingent (or person assigned to PD duties if they're too small to have a full section), whose job it is, among other things, to distribute press releases on events in or concerning their country. These, of course, are given to the press. I can't narrow down that question except to say "all of them."

Even Sweden. It's just that Swedish press releases tend not to involve such world-shaking issues, so it's just not seen as too big of a deal.

rockwool
09-23-2007, 01:50 PM
stankonia for once.... evil bush supporters am telling you.

Stankonia is an album with Outkast, dunno what you're talking about.

rockwool
09-23-2007, 01:53 PM
Every consulate of every country has a public diplomacy contingent (or person assigned to PD duties if they're too small to have a full section), whose job it is, among other things, to distribute press releases on events in or concerning their country. These, of course, are given to the press. I can't narrow down that question except to say "all of them."

Even Sweden. It's just that Swedish press releases tend not to involve such world-shaking issues, so it's just not seen as too big of a deal.

Of course embassies have PR people of some kind, but I had the impression that the Israelis had taken it a bit further than that. Could be wrong though.

MikeD
09-23-2007, 02:05 PM
Press LUNCHEONS! OMFG! Totally undue influence there. No one can resist a good kishka, especially the press. That's how Israel controls the world.

Basically, you're a "Jewish consipiracy" theorist, too, because you're not upset that Syria gives out press releases as well.

ALEXIS_DH
09-23-2007, 02:17 PM
Stankonia is an album with Outkast, dunno what you're talking about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bxOzMz2jlrs

a parody of GWB saying "Stankonia has said they're willing to drop bombs over Baghdad."...

if you believe israel is the only country doing so, then you must believe stankonia is a country part of the GWB coalition :P

rockwool
09-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Press LUNCHEONS! OMFG! Totally undue influence there. No one can resist a good kishka, especially the press. That's how Israel controls the world.

Basically, you're a "Jewish consipiracy" theorist, too, because you're not upset that Syria gives out press releases as well.

Aparantly it's common that they use lunches is an informal way of influensing journalists as it's a good tactic to make them lower their guard; get intimate, friendly. But that wasn't what I remarked on, that was just a side note.

The wrong part are these press releases that have meanings printed as examples of how to phrase the article, and in that way put Israels bias on an incident that has happened. Out goes the journalist content on information and glad that he didn't have to do any research, and with that out goes objectivity. The US media bias is something Dan Rather has spoken of, twice that I know of.

C'mon, there is no Jewish conspiracy (that I know of, but Jews do own a lot of media) and about Syria doing the same I haven't heard of.

rockwool
09-23-2007, 03:39 PM
Will check that Stankonia thing out later.

MikeD
09-23-2007, 04:06 PM
Aparantly it's common that they use lunches is an informal way of influensing journalists as it's a good tactic to make them lower their guard; get intimate, friendly. But that wasn't what I remarked on, that was just a side note.

The wrong part are these press releases that have meanings printed as examples of how to phrase the article, and in that way put Israels bias on an incident that has happened. Out goes the journalist content on information and glad that he didn't have to do any research, and with that out goes objectivity. The US media bias is something Dan Rather has spoken of, twice that I know of.


Um, yeah, it's a press release, for ****'s sake.