View Full Version : Is abortion a make or break topic for you?
I was just curious....I have some coworkers who determine who they will vote for based on abortion first. If there are several anti-abortion candidates then they start looking at other issues. For me its not a make or break, so I thought it was odd someone would vote like this regardless of the persons domestic or foreign policy.
i'm pro abortion/choice.
its a decision that the mother should pretty much have 90% of the say in.
is it a show stopper for me as far as voting for a candidate?
No.
Westy
09-20-2007, 07:45 AM
Millions of idiots are single issue voters. And the issues they voted for haven't moved an inch in 30 years.
Millions of idiots are single issue voters. And the issues they voted for haven't moved an inch in 30 years.
LOL, I don't get the logic of basing your entire vote on one issue.
BadDNA
09-20-2007, 07:51 AM
If it came down to two nearly identical candidates and the only issue they differed on was abortion, I'd go for the pro-choice candidate but it's not an issue I'd use as the sole decision maker otherwise.
MMike
09-20-2007, 08:05 AM
Would the candidate be performing them his/herself?
Would the candidate be performing them his/herself?
Possibly, and it would be in an alley with a....I think we all know
Westy
09-20-2007, 08:35 AM
Possibly, and it would be in an alley with a....I think we all know
Shovel handle?
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 10:04 AM
LOL, I don't get the logic of basing your entire vote on one issue.Millions of idiots are single issue voters. And the issues they voted for haven't moved an inch in 30 years.
It's a make-or-break for me without question.
To me, it's an issue of individual's rights. One can argue that I'm on a slippery slope, but can any of y'all honestly say that you think taking away individual rights would end at choice?
I don't.
I'm personally pro-life... if our child has Downs or other detectable problems, we're keeping it. And for me, abortion leans towards 'wrong', but I'm afraid that our rights are slowly being eaten away and I really do think it starts here. It starts now!
It's a make-or-break for me without question.
To me, it's an issue of individual's rights. One can argue that I'm on a slippery slope, but can any of y'all honestly say that you think taking away individual rights would end at choice?
I don't.
I'm personally pro-life... if our child has Downs or other detectable problems, we're keeping it. And for me, abortion leans towards 'wrong', but I'm afraid that our rights are slowly being eaten away and I really do think it starts here. It starts now!
Interesting...I've never heard it argued from that stance. My coworkers argue about abortion being "wrong" (morally, its killing, etc.). I'm proabortion but I never thought about it in terms of individual rights being taken away.
BurlyShirley
09-20-2007, 10:17 AM
I'm personally pro-life... if our child has Downs or other detectable problems, we're keeping it.
Are you sure I cant have it if that's the case?
Westy
09-20-2007, 10:20 AM
It's a make-or-break for me without question.
To me, it's an issue of individual's rights. One can argue that I'm on a slippery slope, but can any of y'all honestly say that you think taking away individual rights would end at choice?
I don't.
I'm personally pro-life... if our child has Downs or other detectable problems, we're keeping it. And for me, abortion leans towards 'wrong', but I'm afraid that our rights are slowly being eaten away and I really do think it starts here. It starts now!
But the reality is that the issue is in a constitutional deadlock. The chances of any politician being able affect the issue is nil. So you would vote for someone over an issue they can pretty much do nothing about while they can go and **** up or fix many other issues?
To be honest I doubt any politition on either side really wants to have a final solution to abortion. If they did they couldn't guarantee themselves a core vote simply by saying "I'm pro life/choice" and might actually have to talk about real issues they will actually vote on.
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Are you sure I cant have it if that's the case?
WTF? Are you serious?
Can you have it? are you ill?
No you can't have it.
It's worth at least one bike and your dog.
Spero
09-20-2007, 10:26 AM
But the reality is that the issue is in a constitutional deadlock. The chances of any politician being able affect the issue is nil. So you would vote for someone over an issue they can pretty much do nothing about while they can go and **** up or fix many other issues?
To be honest I doubt any politition on either side really wants to have a final solution to abortion. If they did they couldn't guarantee themselves a core vote simply by saying "I'm pro life/choice" and might actually have to talk about real issues they will actually vote on.
You beat me to it. I, personally, have no experience with the issue so it's difficult for me to be gung-ho either way. What I do realize is what Westy mentioned - I don't recall seeing a change in the issue through pro-choice to pro-life presidents.
BurlyShirley
09-20-2007, 10:26 AM
WTF? Are you serious?
Can you have it? are you ill?
No you can't have it.
It's worth at least one bike and your dog.
Typical jew. Trying to get a dog AND a bike for a retard. I should've known better.
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 10:28 AM
But the reality is that the issue is in a constitutional deadlock. The chances of any politician being able affect the issue is nil. So you would vote for someone over an issue they can pretty much do nothing about while they can go and **** up or fix many other issues?
It isn't about pro-life/choice, it's about a politian's attitude on govt interference and this is a great qualifier.
Either they're FOR taking AWAY more of our rights or they're a retarded liar. Either way, I don't want them in office.
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 10:30 AM
I forgot, I'd be okay if abortion was made illegal*... IF it stopped there.
* assuming intelligent alternatives were made available and it was still legal for medical issues.
Westy
09-20-2007, 10:30 AM
Typical jew. Trying to get a dog AND a bike for a retard. I should've known better.
He should consider the name Blaster.
Da Peach
09-20-2007, 10:40 AM
Depends how hot she is.
Toshi
09-20-2007, 10:48 AM
Would the candidate be performing them his/herself?
ron paul is actually a MD, and an ob/gyn to be specific... so possibly yes? :monkey:
MikeD
09-20-2007, 11:32 AM
It's not such a big issue for me, personally. But it's a huge issue for the all-important fetal demographic.
Grumpy28
09-20-2007, 11:37 AM
I PERSONALLY say:If you don't raise the kid.You have NO right telling a woman what to do.Period!!
Changleen
09-20-2007, 03:58 PM
I'm personally pro-life... if our child has Downs or other detectable problems, we're keeping it. And for me, abortion leans towards 'wrong', but I'm afraid that our rights are slowly being eaten away and I really do think it starts here. It starts now!IMO that is a pretty irresponsible POV.
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 04:04 PM
IMO that is a pretty irresponsible POV.
Sarcasm?
BMXman
09-20-2007, 04:04 PM
Millions of idiots are single issue voters. And the issues they voted for haven't moved an inch in 30 years.
here here...my mom voted for Bush because he was against gay marriage...WTF...like that's a major problem....D
BMXman
09-20-2007, 04:08 PM
its a decision that the mother should pretty much have 90% of the say in.
oh yeah the father should have nothing to say about it...I mean the kid is only HALF his!!
here here...my mom voted for Bush because he was against gay marriage...WTF...like that's a major problem....D
Gotta watch out, there is a gay conspiracy to take over the world!! Give them marriage, next thing you know they become governors (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/12/mcgreevey.nj/) and senators (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/27/craig.arrest/)
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 04:09 PM
here here...my mom voted for Bush because he was against gay marriage...WTF...like that's a major problem....D
Wow, that's a real slap in the face.
BMXman
09-20-2007, 04:14 PM
Wow, that's a real slap in the face.
yea it was kind of weird because my mom raised me better than that...but in the last few years she's been going to this "church"...now she's a different person...D
jimmydean
09-20-2007, 04:22 PM
I am a dude, I have no say.
My wife voted for Bush in 2000 because of it. Needless to say she is no longer a single issue voter.
jimmydean
09-20-2007, 04:24 PM
oh yeah the father should have nothing to say about it...I mean the kid is only HALF his!!
The kid would be ZERO his had he worn a hat. Men have no say AFTER the fact, they have ALL the say prior.
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 04:28 PM
The kid would be ZERO his had he worn a hat. Men have no say AFTER the fact, they have ALL the say prior.
He wants the kid, she wants an abortion, he has no say?
That's messed up.
BMXman
09-20-2007, 04:30 PM
The kid would be ZERO his had he worn a hat. Men have no say AFTER the fact, they have ALL the say prior.
ok and that's the problem...it's just as much the woman's responsibility to protect herself from pregnancy as the man....so what do you do when the father wants his child and the mother doesn't???...D
...so what do you do when the father wants his child and the mother doesn't???...D
well...
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/5094194/detail.html
BMXman
09-20-2007, 04:36 PM
well...
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/5094194/detail.html
I guess that's supposed to be funny:disgust1:....D
I guess that's supposed to be funny:disgust1:....D
yeah, I know....sick sense of humor
jimmydean
09-20-2007, 05:03 PM
ok and that's the problem...it's just as much the woman's responsibility to protect herself from pregnancy as the man.
I see it as I am the only one responsible for me. If a woman chooses to not be responsible, that is her choice to make.
<edit> It's also my choice to be with people of responsibility. Nobody said you had to f@ck her.
Changleen
09-20-2007, 06:20 PM
Sarcasm?No - I really think if you can detect a disease like Down's or whatever it is pretty much wrong to bring that foetus to term.
Changleen
09-20-2007, 06:22 PM
The kid would be ZERO his had he worn a hat. Men have no say AFTER the fact, they have ALL the say prior.That kinda depends on the relationship eh?
Silver
09-20-2007, 07:27 PM
He wants the kid, she wants an abortion, he has no say?
That's messed up.
The proper solution to that quandary is paper abortions, not letting the guy have jurisdiction over the woman.
The proper solution to that quandary is paper abortions, not letting the guy have jurisdiction over the woman.
What's a paper abortion? origami forceps?
No - I really think if you can detect a disease like Down's or whatever it is pretty much wrong to bring that foetus to term.
I agree...I don't know if its wrong, but I would abort given the option
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 08:48 PM
No - I really think if you can detect a disease like Down's or whatever it is pretty much wrong to bring that foetus to term.
My people are still a little sensitive from selective termination.
Why doesn't someone with Down's have the same right to life as anyone else?
Selective anything scares me. It should scare you too.
I agree...I don't know if its wrong, but I would abort given the option
i'm sure your shoddy gov funded heathcare would agree... abort-abort!!!
:greedy:
SPINTECK
09-20-2007, 09:04 PM
Is abortion wrong IMO, yes. DO I want it legislated- No. Technically the fetus is in the mom's belly, so it's the mom's body and decision. Bad luck for the fetus if it picked a bad mother. Bad luck for the father if he picked a mean chick to get pregnant. Life is not fair, but it would be more dangerous to give the power to the government.
THe issue is mute w/respect to politics b/c it will never change. It's actually easier to terminate a pregnancy since bush has been in office, but the liar has used it as an issue to win over religious sheeple.
SPINTECK
09-20-2007, 09:08 PM
wrong thread, but it makes me wonder why you would rather give 30% of inefficient profit to make people richer in our system than improve the system and give poor people and working people real coverage??
stevew
09-20-2007, 09:30 PM
My people are still a little sensitive from selective termination.
Why doesn't someone with Down's have the same right to life as anyone else?
They just aren't fashionable.
They just aren't fashionable.
you are right!
no popularity since that one kid who was on that tv show back in the 80's
wrong thread, but it makes me wonder why you would rather give 30% of inefficient profit to make people richer in our system than improve the system and give poor people and working people real coverage??
dbl post ace
SPINTECK
09-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Yeah, I moved it to the appropriate forum, I just get so excited that I didn't want to miss your reply :)
THere is nothing wrong w/down syndrom people. As a biologist I thought why have one, but then I see how they contribute more to society than people I know and that they are a great friend to their elderly parents. So it leads me to think every life has a purpose and all that stuff.
My dad and his wife were under pressure to terminate a pregnancy due to dwarfism, but they had my brother and obviously we couldn't imagine life any other way. Of course he's the badass of the family, but that's for a different thread.
Yeah, I moved it to the appropriate forum, I just get so excited that I didn't want to miss your reply :)
THere is nothing wrong w/down syndrom people. As a biologist I thought why have one, but then I see how they contribute more to society than people I know and that they are a great friend to their elderly parents. So it leads me to think every life has a purpose and all that stuff.
My dad and his wife were under pressure to terminate a pregnancy due to dwarfism, but they had my brother and obviously we couldn't imagine life any other way. Of course he's the badass of the family, but that's for a different thread.
a couple who are friends of my family had a daughter who was born without a brain stem... she's alive 20 some-odd years later. Granted she is in a vegetative state
LordOpie
09-20-2007, 10:17 PM
Is abortion wrong IMO, yes. DO I want it legislated- No. Technically the fetus is in the mom's belly, so it's the mom's body and decision. Bad luck for the fetus if it picked a bad mother. Bad luck for the father if he picked a mean chick to get pregnant. Life is not fair, but it would be more dangerous to give the power to the government.
well said.
...Granted she is in a vegetative state
Sounds like a sweet life
MikeD
09-21-2007, 09:03 AM
you are right!
no popularity since that one kid who was on that tv show back in the 80's
I wanted to boff Corky's sister. She didn't seem so unattainable as Kelly Bundy.
Changleen
09-22-2007, 01:53 AM
My people are still a little sensitive from selective termination.lol OK whatever.
Why doesn't someone with Down's have the same right to life as anyone else?Because I live in the real world and I'm not that cruel or irresponsible.
Selective anything scares me. It should scare you too.What crap. You are selective about everything in your life.
valve bouncer
09-22-2007, 03:21 AM
Because I live in the real world and I'm not that cruel or irresponsible.
What's irresponsible about it? Who says that a Downie can't be a fully functioning member of society.
What's irresponsible about it? Who says that a Downie can't be a fully functioning member of society.
good point... i mean if someone az 'short bus' as loco can fix a bike...
LordOpie
09-22-2007, 08:56 AM
good point... i mean if someone a 'short bus' as loco can fix a bike...
Hell, this is America, a Downie could even be President!
MikeD
09-22-2007, 09:16 AM
Huh. I was supposed to ride at Downieville today.
I know for a fact Partsbara has spent the last 4 weekends at Downieville.
Changleen
09-23-2007, 03:12 AM
What's irresponsible about it? Who says that a Downie can't be a fully functioning member of society.Really? I think you are being a little srcastic but seriously, not to be harsh but in the real world we deny (with good reason) mentally deficiant people so much of the scope of life that we allow everyone else without question.
If you are all for equality here then how about allowing such people to be Police officers? Politicians? Even taxi drivers? You can be all PC about it all you like but you know that in reality bringing a handicapped person onto the world is sentancing them to a lifetime of discrimination and frustration. If you think that's cool, well, I think you're kidding yourself and causing a lot of unnecassary pain and suffering.
I'm all for Barbara Bush getting a 247th trimester abortion.
valve bouncer
09-23-2007, 05:15 PM
Really? I think you are being a little srcastic but seriously, not to be harsh but in the real world we deny (with good reason) mentally deficiant people so much of the scope of life that we allow everyone else without question.
If you are all for equality here then how about allowing such people to be Police officers? Politicians? Even taxi drivers? You can be all PC about it all you like but you know that in reality bringing a handicapped person onto the world is sentancing them to a lifetime of discrimination and frustration. If you think that's cool, well, I think you're kidding yourself and causing a lot of unnecassary pain and suffering.
I guess I see it a bit differently as there's a school (for want of a better word) for mentally handicapped adults near my house and they are involved quite a bit in the community. For example yesterday was sport day at my kids school and they were part of that. Seeing them almost every day as I do, if they are in pain or suffering they're doing a good job of hiding it.
We deny different jobs to people for a lot of reasons, height requirements for police, eyesight for taxi-drivers, possession of a soul for politicians, so I see no problem there.
You sound like you've been reading too much Peter Singer lately Chang.;):busted:
stevew
09-24-2007, 07:29 AM
I wanted to boff Corky's sister. She didn't seem so unattainable as Kelly Bundy.
I bet Corky hit it before......"Becca, why is this stiff....?"
I guess I see it a bit differently as there's a school (for want of a better word) for mentally handicapped adults near my house and they are involved quite a bit in the community. For example yesterday was sport day at my kids school and they were part of that. Seeing them almost every day as I do, if they are in pain or suffering they're doing a good job of hiding it.
We deny different jobs to people for a lot of reasons, height requirements for police, eyesight for taxi-drivers, possession of a soul for politicians, so I see no problem there.
You sound like you've been reading too much Peter Singer lately Chang.;):busted:
A bit off topic, I know they can do a test during the pregnancy for down syndrome, can they for autism?
LordOpie
09-24-2007, 08:43 AM
A bit off topic, I know they can do a test during the pregnancy for down syndrome, can they for autism?
No. And I don't think there's a test for autism afterwards either. I think they diagnose it from symptoms.
As for the Down's test, it's invasive, so it can hurt the baby. No point in testing if aborting isn't an option.
And I've met some Downies who are more productive in society than people who had no challenges.
I've yet to meet a Downie who's a drug/alcohol addict. I've never heard of one going on a killing rampage. I've never heard of one raping women or children.
Sometimes the limits for greatness are also limits for evils.
And I've met some Downies who are more productive in society than people who had no challenges.
I've yet to meet a Downie who's a drug/alcohol addict. I've never heard of one going on a killing rampage. I've never heard of one raping women or children.
Sometimes the limits for greatness are also limits for evils.
Well said and a good point. I doubt we'll someone with downsyndrom leading us into war, they're too smart for that :biggrin:
Reactor
09-27-2007, 09:04 PM
Interesting...I've never heard it argued from that stance. My coworkers argue about abortion being "wrong" (morally, its killing, etc.). I'm proabortion but I never thought about it in terms of individual rights being taken away.
And what do your co-workers feel about the death penalty and the war? If they are against killing an unrecognizable cluster of cells but pro killing adults...they're hypocrits. If they are anti-abortion but refuse to fund the social services needed to help out the additional two million mothers (mostly very young) a year..they're also morons or worse.
I don't like abortion, but I do like individual rights. I personally think the way to reduce the abortion problem is REAL sex education, and the necessary support services so that underage and college age mothers feel they have a choice somewhere between abortion and ruining the rest of their (and their child's) life.
And what do your co-workers feel about the death penalty and the war? If they are against killing an unrecognizable cluster of cells but pro killing adults...they're hypocrits.
But thats defending freedom :) Thats what they'll tell you, they are protecting are freedom in these wars. They are against killing an "innocent" child that can't speak for itself, but in their eyes, is alive
Silver
09-27-2007, 09:40 PM
But thats defending freedom :) Thats what they'll tell you, they are protecting are freedom in these wars. They are against killing an "innocent" child that can't speak for itself, but in their eyes, is alive
Ask them why they stop caring about the child after it pokes out of the vagina...
LordOpie
09-27-2007, 09:46 PM
defending freedom...
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/vendalimb.thumbnail.jpg
^^^ that is one of the most f*cked up things I've seen
Ask them why they stop caring about the child after it pokes out of the vagina...
Its responsible for itself after that! I wish they would focus on helping kids who have been born and are in ****ty homes, it would be a lot better use of all that energy.
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