bbtc using reference regarding closed freeride trails

[dbirds2]

is it me or do you think that bbtc website reffering to certain freeride trails by names, exits and basically saying they are closed is completley uncalled for. We as freeriders dont tlak and tell where trails are it is already hard enough to keep these trails up and running. please in the future if the trail is not legal please do not reference it on your website.

[Str8OutaBallard]

If you could be more specific I would let you know... are you talking about on the trail wiki ?

[dbirds2]

no i am talking about trail off of i-9o near snoqualmie.exit---------------

[buildyourown]

The trails are illegal and closed. BBTC is an advocacy group with a mission to improve access for riders. If people ride the trail illegally, it hampers their efforts to get legal trails open. By educating users about what trails are and are not appropriate to ride, they are helping our sport gain respect and therefor gain legal access.

If your gonna poach, don't get caught, and don't bitch about it.

[dbirds2]

I am not bitching. I just dont think these groups need to advertise where are closedddddd freeride trails are. Maybe we need to start a group that only deals with freeride and downhill trails. Until we get more legal freeride trails we need to keeps things unadvertised. because some of us dont like riding cross country

[nohbody]

I am not bitching. I just dont think these groups need to advertise where are closedddddd freeride trails are. Maybe we need to start a group that only deals with freeride and downhill trails. Until we get more legal freeride trails we need to keeps things unadvertised. because some of us dont like riding cross country

I think you're missing the point... those trails are not really that "secret"unless you have your head buried in the sand to not know about them.

[geargrrl]

I am not bitching. I just dont think these groups need to advertise where are closedddddd freeride trails are. Maybe we need to start a group that only deals with freeride and downhill trails. Until we get more legal freeride trails we need to keeps things unadvertised. because some of us dont like riding cross country


Maybe you need to join the BBTC and help the few guys there that ARE working on freeride issues.

[dbirds2]

joining the bbtc will get nothing done for freeride and downhill riding. bbtc is a great organization for cross country riders. their main interests lie with the pedal power riders. We as freeriders need to form our own group that only deals with our style of riding. I have seen and heard many times rude comments from cross country riders regarding the way we like to ride on certain singletrack. On the contrary I have never seen or heard comments coming from freeriderssss when they try to ride our stunts.

makes me wonder, freeriders unite and become strong!!!!!!!!

[rigidhack]

SSDD

The bbtc is already in existence. It already has a set of resources in place. Why not utilize those instead of reinventing the wheel? There is a responsibility on the part of the some of the freeride community to tone down some of what can be best called juvenile stupidity for the sake of greater access and greater unity across the sport. There is a responsibility on the part of some of the XC community to tone down the snobbishness towards DH and FR riders for exactly the same reason. The sport is changing and progressing, or maybe just diversifying, and it will be best served for the time being by everybody recognising this.

The issues are not specific to the PNW. The east coast has access issues like you would not believe and I have seen the XC vs. FR divide before. In fact, I think it is more of a perceived divide than an natural or given one. Riders are riders and we all want to be able to do what we love without getting in trouble for it.

As for posting closed trails - it makes sense to me as something a public information group might want to do. How else would you know where and where not to ride (legally)?

Riders of the world unite!?

[jumping_jesus]

BBTC Sucks they dont even care about freeride trails and probably like to tear freeride stuff out of other trails that arent illegal. and you call yourself mountain bikers. the worst oganization ever. if you want to know how to get things done for the better of ALL MOUNTAIN BIKING talk to the kids who maintain Dry Hill (Olympic Dirt Society) or the Gorge Freeride Association (GFRA) and places like these. thanks that all i have to say.

[ffonsok]

I like the guys in the BBTC. They do good work.

However, if they aren't putting in work the trails, they should just leave NO mention of the trails. It's not their business. If I want to illegally build a freeride trail somewhere, that's my problem dealing with the potentially pissed off landowner, not the BBTC's. I am with the original poster on this.

dbird2- The big boys use capital letters and punctuation. Are you a big boy?

[Str8OutaBallard]

I sent my $ to the BBTC... so I guess I'm a member?...

between my whacky work schedule and having more freeride friends than Trail Ride/All mtn I find that I'm sort of not much of a member...

I've helped move rocks at the Colonade... been email interogated about Tokul... what ever... tried to host a ride or two...

I have all sorts of things going on in life other than mtn biking... So what ever I concentrate on for fun has to be moving in the direction that I want to move in... otherwise I tend to drop it, and quick...

is it me or do you think that bbtc website reffering to certain freeride trails by names, exits and basically saying they are closed is completley uncalled for. We as freeriders dont tlak and tell where trails are

I take it you meant on the trail wiki... let me find a link...

http://trailheadrevolution.com/wiki/index.php?title=Trail:Exit_27

you mean this?

[Skookum]

Trail Wiki is a brand new forum and it's open for ANYONE to go in and edit it. i don't know who wrote that, might not have been a member of BBTC that wrote that...

Let me say a few things that will never be official but all mt. bikers who are in the know and who work to better trail access for ALL MOUNTAIN BIKERS know....

Firstly i always talk about Colonnade being the place that will not only have jumps drops structures etc.... But it also make it possible to have future freeride/dh spots. We'll say "Hey look at this park, it works!" Land Managers consider and the process begins...

There are other reasons for Colonnade too but if you're just into DH/FR this is the most important reason to you.

For so many frikking years on this forum it's been the same thing. Shhh don't talk about exit this and exit that, and nobody is doing the truly mind numbing lame political work of dealing with people that don't want North Shore or don't care about anything but not having to deal with paperwork...

But BBTC has and does, there is nobody here who is qualified that can deny this. Maybe they don't do enough? Ok fair enough, then what are you willing to do....

Also Colonnade has cost the club huge amounts of money and resources. There were people wanting to pull the plug because they felt it was taking away manpower from XC places like Paradise, Ollalie, Maplewoods, and HUNDREDS of miles of mountain trail that will get closed due to what's called Wilderness Designation which bans mountain biking.

i'm totally glad that never came through because it would have destroyed the club. i'm glad that most people are able to be PATIENT and WISE enough to see that stuff takes time and work.

There is stuff in action that will have payoff, for not only DH/freeride, but XC, racing, and whatever else people can think of to do on 2 wheels...

And here's something that is not understood by some but it's the truth. And i know for a fact people in power who cannot say this, THINK IT. Places like the exits should be built illegally because it shows the need that Shore type trails have a place in Seattle. There is a huge void. Once we get land and parks to have legal freeride, the illegal building will eventually be pointless.

But that being said it's absolutely important to be willing when the time comes to shift the focus from illegally building to moving toward legitamate parks. That's just starting now....

And for me, i'm getting sick of people separating mt. bikers on both sides. i don't care what bike you ride, what garb you wear. Away from that you're just another person like me. OH and you happen to have something in common with me, you ride a bike, how about that....

Freeride a word created by the bike industry to sell big bikes. That's the real deal, ask anyone who's been around a while...

[Borneo]

Thanks for the link StraightOuttaB.

I don't see anything wrong with it. As mentioned before, you'd have to be living under a rock not to know about that trail. AND, the FS has walked the trail with local mtb advocates on both the XC and DH/FR pursuasion and they have not cut it down have they? as a political group, it's just a move to seperate church and state when it comes to hot topic issues like venti sette. Personally, I think the builder's video and the Cam McCaul piece all over YouTube did way more for promoting that place than some obscure cryptic posting on the trail wiki.

And, as for the continuing stereotyping of the BBTC as XC weenies, get over it. There's a lot of people in that group that can ride DH and FR too. And, they are doing something about getting legal FR and DH around here. Which definately not happening with the monthly "We need to start a DH/FR group" comments here.

And, attitude goes both ways. I've gotten it from euro team wearing weight weenies while I was armored up and have gotten it from FR punk kids when I'm actually wearing spandex on an XC ride. It goes both ways. People just need to chill.

The main reason it's probably there is likely because the FS/DNR folks asked them to do something like that as a reminder.

[dbirds2]

As far as legal freeride trails go in Washington we are never going to see any and if we do they probably will not be worth while. Our only hope is the small community of fr/dh trail builders and riders doing what were doing and keeping things on the lowdown, until we know for sure were are getting something worth a damn. Oh! and let's not forget stevens pass, maybe they can get it going.

Progression=PAIN! Charge IT

[NateH]

The BBTC does care about freeriders and downhillers, but when you are struggling for acceptance the best way to work is slowly. If they go to the state and say we want 10' drops and this and that its going to be a simple no. But if they continue to build cool things like colonade and get support from people in the system the chances of legal trails goes up.

As far as not riding "illegal trails", this is part of the sport you have chosen to participate in, and until a major responsibility shift in our country happens this is how things are going to be. If you want you can go out and build you own exit whatever and keep it quite and have your own playground, thats the way it works unfortunately, some day we'll all be able to tell each other where to go but till that day its the way it is.

Oh and don't hate on xc dudes because were all in this together.

[Neal]

i hear bbtc has a freerider voodoo doll they stick pins in.

is this true?

[Skookum]

i hear bbtc has a freerider voodoo doll they stick pins in.

is this true?
Yesh it's a plump replica of Bibbs.:monkey:

[roundnround]

Since the trail wiki pages can be edited and added by just about anyone, we worried about someone coming along and posting a page about the exits with a map marker showing exactly where they are. To discourage that, we decided to put in placeholder pages and make them not editable by regular users.

[evilbob]

Yesh it's a plump replica of Bibbs.:monkey:

That is by far the best laugh I have had all day :rofl:thanks Skookum.

Skookum is right and if you think the BBTC is just about XC then you should go up to Whistler with the BBTC Pres and Vice Pres and you will see where their interest is. :clue:

[SeaPig]

The BBTC does care about freeriders and downhillers, but when you are struggling for acceptance the best way to work is slowly. If they go to the state and say we want 10' drops and this and that its going to be a simple no. But if they continue to build cool things like colonade and get support from people in the system the chances of legal trails goes up.

As far as not riding "illegal trails", this is part of the sport you have chosen to participate in, and until a major responsibility shift in our country happens this is how things are going to be. If you want you can go out and build you own exit whatever and keep it quite and have your own playground, thats the way it works unfortunately, some day we'll all be able to tell each other where to go but till that day its the way it is.



Well said. I might add that I have talked with BBTC at the colonnade opening and they do want to see more freeride, but they are aware that it has to be done a certain controlled way or all progress fails.

[tadrscin]

Justin Vander Pol, Executive Director of BBTC at Whistler
http://bbtc.org/img/upload/img65872.jpg

Jon Kennedy, Volunteer Director of BBTC at S SeaTac
http://bbtc.org/img/upload/img97467.jpg

You're right, no one at BBTC is even remotely interested in DH/FR.

[asif]

Since the trail wiki pages can be edited and added by just about anyone, we worried about someone coming along and posting a page about the exits with a map marker showing exactly where they are. To discourage that, we decided to put in placeholder pages and make them not editable by regular users.

Good thinking :lighten:
I was going to say i don't see the issue with this as there's no directions or pictures.

ppl need to chill.

[jumping_jesus]

i can do that in my sleep and with no hands. Who cares the point is to do something for all mountain biking in general. I don"t see them doing anything for w. marginal DH where are the BBTC now if they care so much about dh/fr. Are dh/fr riders fighting for it ...... fight for what you belive in thats all if you are actually dh or fr thats it, i know its all about MTB so do it other wise you guys just look like bs and full of ****e if you only fight for xc .... you have to have a greater purposes like ALL MOUNTAIN BIKING and every thing in between. The ultimate way to enjoy the outdoors is by MTB...........

[jumping_jesus]

here let me photo shop a pic like that but with no hands!!!!!


Justin Vander Pol, Executive Director of BBTC at Whistler
http://bbtc.org/img/upload/img65872.jpg

Jon Kennedy, Volunteer Director of BBTC at S SeaTac
http://bbtc.org/img/upload/img97467.jpg

You're right, no one at BBTC is even remotely interested in DH/FR.

[trailhacker]

Ironic because that is pretty much what they do?
Who cares the point is to do something for all mountain biking in general.
You should heed the advice given in you own signature; the rest of your post makes it sound like you are 12.

[redFoxx]

You should heed the advice given in you own signature; the rest of your post makes it sound like you are 12.

He isn't ? :confused: That's the only reason I figured his wasn't worth a response. Must be closer to 12 than most others here though...

[Neal]

i hear bbtc has an underage freerider voodoo doll they stick pins in.

is this true?

[redFoxx]

It's not working I tell ya!

[dbirds2]

you know, there is a butt load of politics in mtn biking. The reason you dont here xc riders bitching about places to ride is they pretty much have full reighn in the mountains, hills and suburbs. If that is the only kind of riding I can do I will sell the bike and get into horseback riding. AS for as groups and organizations go and doing everything by the book screw that it gets nothing done. REMEMBER the voters turning down the mariners and safeco field twice, but they still built it.. PATHETIC!!!!!! Bottom line........if someone isnt getting something of building new freeride trails, like money or favors, freeride trails will continue to be destroyed and frowned upon.

this is the wonderful state we live in. RIP IT.................................

[nohbody]

you know, there is a butt load of politics in mtn biking. The reason you dont here xc riders bitching about places to ride is they pretty much have full reighn in the mountains, hills and suburbs. If that is the only kind of riding I can do I will sell the bike and get into horseback riding. AS for as groups and organizations go and doing everything by the book screw that it gets nothing done. REMEMBER the voters turning down the mariners and safeco field twice, but they still built it.. PATHETIC!!!!!! Bottom line........if someone isnt getting something of building new freeride trails, like money or favors, freeride trails will continue to be destroyed and frowned upon.

this is the wonderful state we live in. RIP IT.................................

hookt on foniks werked fur u, omg lolz.

[dbirds2]

you know, there is a butt load of politics in mtn biking. The reason you dont here xc riders bitching about places to ride is they pretty much have full reign in the mountains, hills and suburbs. If that is the only kind of riding I can do I will sell the bike and get into horseback riding. AS for as groups and organizations go, doing everything by the book screw that! it gets nothing done. REMEMBER the voters turning down the mariners and safeco field twice, but they still built it.. PATHETIC!!!!!! Bottom line........if someone isnt getting something from building new freeride trails, like money or favors, freeride trails will continue to be destroyed and frowned upon.

this is the wonderful state we live in. RIP IT.................................



Im sorry nohbody, is that better. Who cares

[geargrrl]

hmm, doing things "by the book" has given us Whistler, Black Rock, Post Canyon, Collonade, Snoqualamie and soon Beacon park.

whatever.

[dbirds2]

okay gear girl, Whistler did it for the money make no mistake about it. Post Canyon and Black Rock are allowed to generate local revenue for the economy.Collanade and snoqualmie kid park is not freeriding. I cannot speak for beacon hill. Last time I checked, Seattle surrounding areas are not hurting for tourism or money.

[rigidhack]

So, what exactly are you looking for? Whistler was not built in a day, nor was the Shore. It took years and years for those places to become what they are right now. It took mountains of work and a whole ton of tiny steps. It sounds to me like you want to have the baby without the birth pangs. Is the BBTC or your proposed new DH/FR group supposed to just produce CBC South or Seattle's own A-Line on one of the local hills one weekend?

[Borneo]

LOL. I here xc peple bithin' abowt the lak of local trials all the time....

[geargrrl]

Anyone catch the segment about Post Canyon on IPTV (Oregon Field Guide) Sunday night? It was a great short piece about the trail builders, why they build, what they build, and how they work with the system to get it. Maybe I was sleeping through part of it, because all I heard was building for the love of the ride, not to generate tourist dollars for Hood River.

gg

[Skookum]

As one may be of confidence, there indeed is a quantitive "butt" load of politicking within surrounding all terrain bicycles. A pointed stance i retain is Cross Country riders refrain from complaining since they have access to an overabundance of trails in which to enjoy. From the mountains to the prairies, to the oceans white with foam! i will absolutely not be reduced to participating in any such mundane activity, as i would rather have anal intercourse with a Llama. First of all i have a reputation to maintain, and secondly i am absolutely unqualified to even understand what is out there. Now concerning these so-called advocacy groups and organizations, allow me to astound you with my superior logic. Safeco Field is to blame for Freeride trails being illegal. Yes it's true, Ichiro is from Japan and from my tireless internet research i was able to determine a dire conspiracy. An obscure reference of Central Japan states that Kaisei High School's baseball administrator was warned about reporting a bicycle theft incident to slowly. It's important to understand that Ichiro is from Japan, and the obvious procrastination of the baseball administrator concludes that they hold disdain for bicycles. PATHETIC!!!!!! Bottom line........i'm absolutely convinced that this is some sort of residual aggression stemming from World War II.

At my wits end. DROP TO FLAT.................................


Astounding thesis, sure to receive accolades from a myriad of admirers.

[dbirds2]

No wonder washington is crappy for freeriding in general. Reviewing the replys I got to this thread, I am convinced that most mtn bikers here are gutless, tree huggin whimps. I have read alot of users post here for the last year and see the same old crap and its the same old people getting nothing done, advice that gets nothing done for freeriders. I thought I would post a thread for the first time, I did, and got exactly the response I thought I would. So I guess I will go back to my old ways, poaching trails and building my own.

over and out

[trailhacker]

You do that. But DO NOT tell anybody, even your friends. Because in exactly 11 months (give or take) their will be some noob like yourself asking "whats the story with the trails by XXXXX, I heard they are gnar-huck-to-flat-o'rific".
Then someone (which I think is who you are) will say "uncool, don't talk about XXXXX on a public forum".
To which someone will respond (again, I could see this being you too) "keeping trails secret is super-lame, anyone should be able to ride any trail at anytime".
Its a viscous cycle...

But since you have been lurking around for so long I am guessing you have seen all the posts (just like yours) where someone says "freeriders unite, down with lycra-lamos. We need to organize to get trails for US!!! BBTC sucks, they hate freeriders and DH's and Emo kids, and...".
But you will notice that it hasn't happened?
So to you I say "Step up, lead the charge, get organized, lead, follow or STFU."

Or buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way over and out.

[woodway]

So to you I say "Step up, lead the charge, get organized, lead, follow or STFU."

Or buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way over and out.

Hits the mark in every way. Well put trailhacker.

[roundnround]

Safeco Field is to blame for Freeride trails being illegal.

I heard that Kaiser Soze has it in for free riders!

LOL--thanks for the laugh, Skooks.

And like Borneo said, if you have not heard XC riders bitch about losing trails (or about the BBTC for that matter :) then you must not be hanging out with XC riders.

[coiler7]

Hey Gar Girl, why even be watching IPTV (IdaHoe Potato TV) unless you are in Spokane, Idaho or don't have cable? except for that purticleur episode your OFG show & THE WIMPY HOST is frikkin lame-O & PBS is such a waste of taxpayers' money I beleive anyway. nother thing, WA state needs to sell all the boring land around Spokane & all that other worthless part of the state to Idaho. Except for Ganzoga Univercity. btw, BH is way too groomed & the all people are so nicey nice & helpful.
:clapping:

[Neal]

...the DirtCorps folks have already figured how to organize, successfully solicit, and build a legitimate bike park...while all the bbtc haters have been talking about it for years...

[Str8OutaBallard]

...the DirtCorps folks have already figured how to organize, successfully solicit, and build a legitimate bike park...while all the bbtc haters have been talking about it for years...

How do you join the dirt corps?

[Borneo]

I've been asking for a while now and they seem to be happy with who they have for now. (Though two are semi-permanently out of state now...) "Joining" doesn't seem to be a concern. They are doing a small local deal and are staffed accordingly. Kind of like the DJs up in B'ham were.

As for the BBTC, they are much more widespread in not only membership but focus and are usually dealing with bigger governmental wastelands than lil' ol' Snoqualmie. Having DC member JRose on the parks board helps too. So, it's a little bit different out there.

People bitch no matter what. Personally, I think we've got it pretty made on all aspects of biking compared to some poor schlep living in Iowa for gawd's sake so I can't complain for a lack of trails to ride. Heck, I usually am never able to get to everything in one riding season. So what if we have to drive a little for some variation. If you want 'shore out the back door, I'm sure MMike would love to have you move north of the border.

[Skookum]

No wonder washington is crappy for freeriding in general. Reviewing the replys I got to this thread, I am convinced that most mtn bikers here are gutless, tree huggin whimps. I have read alot of users post here for the last year and see the same old crap and its the same old people getting nothing done, advice that gets nothing done for freeriders. I thought I would post a thread for the first time, I did, and got exactly the response I thought I would. So I guess I will go back to my old ways, poaching trails and building my own.

over and out
edited, i don't wanna be a dick just to make a point, when most people get it anyways....

[juice]

I wow, I hadn't been over here on RM for a while. The same thread was going on at mtbr.

I'm not going to debate any points, I'm just going to say that I am personally working on several options for legit freeride. I work with DNR, the Forest Service, Seattle, Kind County, and Snoqulamie by supporting the Dirt Corps crew (they're working under the shell of BBTC so they're covered by our insurance). BBTC's job is to try and find a land manager that will allow real freeride on a chunk of land that works for us. So far we've made a few baby steps, band we'll damn well keep trying.

Same goes for xc. No way in hell we have even close to enough xc riding near Seattle. The xc situation is little better, but sure isn't good. How many singletrack trail systems do we have officially on public land w/in an hour of Seattle? 4 That sure isn't much. How many of those are open past November? 1 - Grand Ridge, which really isn't what I'd call an epic experience.

So yeah - we have a poopload of work to do.

[juice]

Since the trail wiki pages can be edited and added by just about anyone, we worried about someone coming along and posting a page about the exits with a map marker showing exactly where they are. To discourage that, we decided to put in placeholder pages and make them not editable by regular users.

True. We knew that this whole topic would be a problem given the user-editable nature of wikis. I created a listing for said exits, and deleted the map markers from the main map. The lat/lon coordinates for those exits are just the physical freeway offramps - just concrete and cars. If you found the listings you already know the exit numbers. The listings are also locked down so that no additional information can be posted - and I pointed folks to legit freeriding, even if it is a long drive from town.

People, don't give up hope. The trails on Fromme were only made legitimate in the last few years, and they've been around since the mid-80s. A few of them, such as Pink Starfish, are still at risk. And all of lower Cypress are going to become mega-mansions. Our challenges aren't unique, we just haven't been at it as long as our bros up north.

[jodysbike]

If you don't like how things are going join the club. Get your budies to join. Lobby the members for support. At the next board election get on the board and use the clubs power to make change. Why start a revolution to form a new club that has a tiny voice when you can have one big one?