Last American President that wasn't a war criminal?

[Silver]

Anyone?

I know for sure that everyone in my lifetime could reasonably be convicted of war crimes. That takes care of George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush, Reagan, and Carter.

Ford may have been the last one, although you can make the case that he went ahead and pardoned a bunch of war criminals, which puts him into the guilty column in my book.

I honestly can't think of one before FDR. And I don't know American history that well to judge him. Getting before WW1 you obviously have the problem with Presidents sanctioning genocide of the Indian population, so they aren't out either. And then you hit slavery...

Maybe Harrison? He only served for 31 days...

[1453]

Anyone?

I know for sure that everyone in my lifetime could reasonably be convicted of war crimes. That takes care of George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush, Reagan, and Carter.

Ford may have been the last one, although you can make the case that he went ahead and pardoned a bunch of war criminals, which puts him into the guilty column in my book.

I honestly can't think of one before FDR. And I don't know American history that well to judge him. Getting before WW1 you obviously have the problem with Presidents sanctioning genocide of the Indian population, so they aren't out either. And then you hit slavery...

Maybe Harrison? He only served for 31 days...

every leader of a major country is a war criminal when viewed by someone else somewhere. It's a part of the job.

stop wasting your brain cells, it's gonna turn you into one of those non-voting people.

[Spero]

every leader of a major country is a war criminal when viewed by someone else somewhere. It's a part of the job.

stop wasting your brain cells, it's gonna turn you into one of those non-voting people.

Agreed here. When you play politics you'll never avoid accusations of wrongdoing by members of a certain population or thought. One of the only things we can do with little effort is vote for the lesser of the evils - douche or turd sandwich. The next election will be a tough one for me...every prospective candidate on both sides of the playing field are pieces of **** for the most part IMO.

[rockwool]

I get a good vibe from the little I know from Woodrow Wilson as he fought against the bankers who at that time sceemed against the republic to gain control of the Federal Reserve. Wasn't he in office during early 20's? Peaceful times for the US but who knows what the US was upto in Latin America.

[Spero]

but who knows what the US was upto in Latin America.

Haha yeah...we've always had a hand in Latin America and I doubt that will ever change.

[Silver]

Agreed here. When you play politics you'll never avoid accusations of wrongdoing by members of a certain population or thought.

I'm not talking about accusations or views colored by politics. I'm talking about dead people (very often brown ones) that were killed for reasons that many times weren't any better than the ones offered by a mugger who kills a guy at an ATM:

"I wanted the money."

[DavidMakalaster]

douche or turd sandwich.

That's Giant Douche

[1453]

Well Silver, your question is then lost on me. The very nature of the word "war criminal" implies it has a political tint to it. People, be it white, black, brown, Asian, die all the time, during the time of every president, and it's a matter of what how you classify the deaths.

In a way you are a war criminal too for residing in occupied California, when viewed by Mexican nationalists. Somewhere out there the Aztlan guys still think we are at war, therefore as a part of the occupying force, you are a war criminial. I'm sure we can find some way you are responsible for the death of brown people somehow.

[Silver]

Well Silver, your question is then lost on me. The very nature of the word "war criminal" implies it has a political tint to it. People, be it white, black, brown, Asian, die all the time, during the time of every president, and it's a matter of what how you classify the deaths.

In a way you are a war criminal too for residing in occupied California, when viewed by Mexican nationalists. Somewhere out there the Aztlan guys still think we are at war, therefore as a part of the occupying force, you are a war criminial. I'm sure we can find some way you are responsible for the death of brown people somehow.

Ok, how about mass murderer then? No political angle to that one, and it works just as well.

My taxes do fuel the American war machine. So I guess I'm somewhat responsible since 2001. A distinction needs to be made though: I'm not making decisions that directly result in the deaths of thousands of people.

As to the Mexican nationalists, they can suck it, along with the slavery reparations people. Old news...and besides, the Indians are a little further ahead in that line.

[N8]

no need to worry about silver losing any brain cells by posting...

cuz there arent any to lose

[DHRFX Joe]

Ok, how about mass murderer then? No political angle to that one, and it works just as well.

My taxes do fuel the American war machine. So I guess I'm somewhat responsible since 2001. A distinction needs to be made though: I'm not making decisions that directly result in the deaths of thousands of people.

As to the Mexican nationalists, they can suck it, along with the slavery reparations people. Old news...and besides, the Indians are a little further ahead in that line.

Your signature is all I need to know in order to kindly not bother with this thread.

[dhbuilder]

no need to worry about silver losing any brain cells by posting...

cuz there arent any to lose

so many here are addicted to those far left hate sites.
i used to give folks here credit for common sense.

then slowly you find out that they're nothing but little twenty something kiddies, or quisnos employees.
usefull for sweeping floors on a jobsite. but not much else.

[Silver]

Your signature is all I need to know in order to kindly not bother with this thread.

And yet you still went ahead and bothered.

Sleep well tonight, little Eichmann...

[DHRFX Joe]

And yet you still went ahead and bothered.

Sleep well tonight, little Eichmann...


So my ability to distinguish political officials with poor decision making skills from mentally handicapped individuals makes me a Nazi....


Makes perfect sense.

[Silver]

So my ability to distinguish political officials with poor decision making skills from mentally handicapped individuals makes me a Nazi....


Makes perfect sense.

I love fresh meat...

[valve bouncer]

no need to worry about silver losing any brain cells by posting...

cuz there arent any to lose
Alanis would be pleased.

[1453]

Ok, how about mass murderer then? No political angle to that one, and it works just as well.

My taxes do fuel the American war machine. So I guess I'm somewhat responsible since 2001. A distinction needs to be made though: I'm not making decisions that directly result in the deaths of thousands of people.


I think you are living in the wrong country if you want to have a president is not a, um, what's the word, Mass Murderer. Every president we have had orderd a miltary action(note, not war) of some sort, the Bushes, Bill, Ronald, Ford, Jimmy, LBJ,...., Frank. Your standard of living is supported by the, um, "war machine" in more ways that you would think.

If you truly want to have a clear conscience of your existence, you may need to run to some isolated Amazonian tribe and start living a purely survivalist living. Otherwise, being a guy that lives in Orange County of california who rides bikes that worth the wages of whole families in ther countries is a little hypocritical when he starts calling presidents mass murderers.

Wait, did Herbert Hoover order any military incursions?

[blue]

Wait, did Herbert Hoover order any military incursions?

Hoover didn't do much of anything beside get refugee camps and dams named after him, if I recollect correctly. Kinda like the guy before him as well (Coolidge).

[sanjuro]

BTW, the answer is none of them. They have all kept this country safe so that no one could tried them as criminals.

[ohio]

Every president we have had orderd a miltary action(note, not war) of some sort, the Bushes, Bill, Ronald, Ford, Jimmy, LBJ,...., Frank.
uh, that was one of the first things Silver posted. Thanks for bringing something new to the thread.

Your standard of living is supported by the, um, "war machine" in more ways that you would think.
I don't think Silver is under any illusions regarding what is supporting his standard of living. Pointing it out and wanting to change it but not knowing where to begin doesn't make someone a hypocrite. It makes them conscientious but ineffectual, which is a healthy step up from apathetic and/or willfully-ignorant.

[Silver]

I think you are living in the wrong country if you want to have a president is not a, um, what's the word, Mass Murderer.

Not a great advertisement for the US there...our way of life is the best, as long as you don't mind grinding poor brown people in far off places to dust under your heels! I can see the posters now...


Every president we have had orderd a miltary action(note, not war) of some sort, the Bushes, Bill, Ronald, Ford, Jimmy, LBJ,...., Frank. Your standard of living is supported by the, um, "war machine" in more ways that you would think.

Some wars are clearly necessary. I'm not a pacifist. Having said that, there is no way for me to reconcile an ethical life with the actions that Reagan ordered in Central America, to give one example. YMMV, as ethics do.


If you truly want to have a clear conscience of your existence, you may need to run to some isolated Amazonian tribe and start living a purely survivalist living. Otherwise, being a guy that lives in Orange County of california who rides bikes that worth the wages of whole families in ther countries is a little hypocritical when he starts calling presidents mass murderers.

First off, cost of living is a relative thing. And then, I feel the need to make the point again that there is a difference in directly ordering actions (and this is not an arguable point...I don't have the same amount of authority. You can't hold a street sweeper in St. Petersburg who never voted for the Communists responsible for Stalin's purges, can you?) and living under a leader who did so. I also feel the need to point out that under your standard, if I'm a hypocrite, you're an apathetic accomplice to mass murder. Actually, you're even worse...you are advocating mass murder in order to ensure your continued comfort. I'm fully aware of the fact that American standard of living MUST decline in the age of increasing globalization, unless we are willing to take by force that which does not rightfully belong to us. We simply can't continue to have 5% of the world's population consume a quarter (or more, I don't remember the exact numbers) of the world's resources. Not without a vast empire, anyways. Which is what America rebelled against a few hundred years ago, IIRC.

I also don't believe that you have to live the life of a common thug in order to ensure prosperity. Iceland, for example, is resource poor, and doesn't threaten anyone (besides whales). Now, I'm not making the claim that it is easy to do. I'm merely advocating the point of view that it is a worthy goal.


Wait, did Herbert Hoover order any military incursions?

I don't think so. I'm rethinking Ford, myself. He pardoned Nixon, but that was about Watergate, and had nothing to do with bombing of Cambodia. Thanks for answering my original question, though... ;)

[1453]

First off, cost of living is a relative thing. And then, I feel the need to make the point again that there is a difference in directly ordering actions (and this is not an arguable point...I don't have the same amount of authority. You can't hold a street sweeper in St. Petersburg who never voted for the Communists responsible for Stalin's purges, can you?) and living under a leader who did so. I also feel the need to point out that under your standard, if I'm a hypocrite, you're an apathetic accomplice to mass murder. Actually, you're even worse...you are advocating mass murder in order to ensure your continued comfort. I'm fully aware of the fact that American standard of living MUST decline in the age of increasing globalization, unless we are willing to take by force that which does not rightfully belong to us. We simply can't continue to have 5% of the world's population consume a quarter (or more, I don't remember the exact numbers) of the world's resources. Not without a vast empire, anyways. Which is what America rebelled against a few hundred years ago, IIRC.

I also don't believe that you have to live the life of a common thug in order to ensure prosperity. Iceland, for example, is resource poor, and doesn't threaten anyone (besides whales). Now, I'm not making the claim that it is easy to do. I'm merely advocating the point of view that it is a worthy goal.



since you already established an opinion and seem to understand exactly what is going on, I just like to say I do not support mass murders unlike what you are trying to imply. You brought in the term "mass murderer" and somehow I was advocating it...:bonk:

maybe you should look into moving to Iceland. You are not going to change the world by sitting around calling other people mass murderers or war criminals.

keep it up you'll have a great future hanging with "Joshua" and the "Happy Happy Happy" guy on Sproul plaza.

[kidwoo]

It makes them conscientious but ineffectual,

I was thinking more along the lines of 'canadian.'

Where a similar standard of living exists, yet no one ever saw the need to beat up grenada.

[ohio]

keep it up you'll have a great future hanging with "Joshua" and the "Happy Happy Happy" guy on Sproul plaza.

You seem to be making the rather large leap from accepting a reality that global politics is often violent all the way to violence in any form for global politics is perfectly acceptable.

If that is not your intent, you may need to explain your position a little better.