Iron Horse does it again

[Eren]

price hike again, according to their website the 08 world cup will be
6, 699 msrp and the team 4, 499. thats 700 more for the world cup and 300 more for the team. . .

edit: the elite went up 500 as well

[SuboptimusPrime]

I noticed that as well...I guess it's supply and demand but a bummer nonetheless. I thought that this year's IH bikes were all a pretty good deal in terms of spec and what you got for your money...not quite as much now.

[Cave Dweller]

What do you expect? The US dollar has been diving against almost every other major currency due to protracted wars and massive overseas debt..........

Not to mention increases in raw materials.

That price hike would have been offset by the frames all being made in Taiwan as well. I would expect next years bike to be even more expensive for you guys. Better get used to it.

On the plus side bikes in Australia are cheaper for us now. :busted:

[jrfor0]

for 2008 doesn't the WC come with 2 sets of wheels? maybe that is part of the price increase.

[Cave Dweller]

for 2008 doesn't the WC come with 2 sets of wheels? maybe that is part of the price increase.

2 pairs of pedals, flats and clips. No second wheels.

[ire]

What do you expect? The US dollar has been diving against almost every other major currency due to protracted wars and massive overseas debt..........

Spreading freedom costs money :)

[rosenamedpoop]

What do you expect? The US dollar has been diving against almost every other major currency due to protracted wars and massive overseas debt..........

Not to mention increases in raw materials.

That price hike would have been offset by the frames all being made in Taiwan as well. I would expect next years bike to be even more expensive for you guys. Better get used to it.

On the plus side bikes in Australia are cheaper for us now. :busted:

Yep, crazy to me that every single democratic presidency for the last 100 years has had a highly positive effect on the US economy, and every single republican presidency the opposite (our current one taking the cake and the batter for the next cake too), yet public perception has held consistent opposition to the facts.

If you want cheap bikes and parts, vote democratic across the board.

[ire]

Yep, crazy to me that every single democratic presidency for the last 100 years has had a highly positive effect on the US economy, and every single republican presidency the opposite (our current one taking the cake and the batter for the next cake too), yet public perception has held consistent opposition to the facts.

If you want cheap bikes and parts, vote democratic across the board.

I've never seen anyone connect bikes and politics so well, I'm impressed

[DirtyMike]

What do you expect? The US dollar has been diving against almost every other major currency due to protracted wars and massive overseas debt..........

:

Try again, they are raising there prices for one reason only, Supply, and Demand. More people are riding Ironhorse than ever, More popular, more demand, more people out on the trails, and its a good product. Eventually they will be just like santacruz and charge a life saving for a bike.

[DirtyMike]

Let me add, I am not saying ther isnt a Political problem at all times in the US, i am just saying that IH didnt raise ther prices to respond to teh US dollar not being worth anything. I am just seperating the two issues. And yes i Agree with one of the previous statements, Freedom isnt free, It costs Plenty, and not just money, remember that when our Service Men and Women come home and enter our local shops, and your own shops. Discounts are nice, But a simple thankyou and a handshake goes a long ways in showing them your appriciation for serving there country, wether you agree with it or not, they ARE serving you

[Dogboy]

Try again, they are raising there prices for one reason only, Supply, and Demand.
Sorry, but that is just not correct. While that may play a very small part in the increased price, it is mainly due to the rising costs of raw materials and the weak US dollar - as stated earlier.

[Eurotrash]

But the companies in TW all charge in US dollars...

[FlipFantasia]

no, they're serving a corporate agenda that's in the pocket of the whitehouse.....but hey, believe what you will......and before you flame me, my aunt is just about to finish up her one year tour over there, and she's as disillusioned as any after the whole experience......really wondering wtf exactly they're trying to acheive there.....

[FlipFantasia]

I digress though, raising prices on bikes is the new black.....

[dw]

Sorry, but that is just not correct. While that may play a very small part in the increased price, it is mainly due to the rising costs of raw materials and the weak US dollar - as stated earlier.

Confirmed.

Anyone who doubts, take a look at the published data on metals futures from 2002 to 2007. Through the roof.

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

[FlipFantasia]

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

it makes slow moving wednesdays, that feel like mondays, a lot more entertaining!

[MMike]

And we know whose fault this is....the jews.

Confirmed.

Anyone who doubts, take a look at the published data on metals futures from 2002 to 2007. Through the roof.

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

[MMike]

....and yes....we're looking at 90+ week lead times on our aluminium extrusions at work these days...........

[dante]

Confirmed.

Anyone who doubts, take a look at the published data on metals futures from 2002 to 2007. Through the roof.

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

economists are rolling over in their graves right now. :busted:

[dan-o]

The easy way to tell if the increases are due to materials costs is to look at pricing from other brands. If IH is substantially higher other factors are probably coming into play, which is OK when you have fan-boys in sam hill replica kit lined up to buy this years paint job.

[Eren]

yea word. the v10 are like 5600msrp i believe for 08, thats 1100 more for the iron horse, but everyone who idolizes hill will buy one.

whatever, at least the framsetr is affordable at 2500

[Secret Squirrel]

....and yes....we're looking at 90+ week lead times on our aluminium extrusions at work these days...........

yow...that's a bit harsh...

[Secret Squirrel]

yea word. the v10 are like 5600msrp i believe for 08, thats 1100 more for the iron horse, but everyone who idolizes hill will buy one.

whatever, at least the framsetr is affordable at 2500

qfe..

[ElTORO]

2500 affordable... I laughed at that one. Well I guess it's not 3g's so meh...

[Rob Munro]

simple way to determine the cause. check out the prices of the other manufacturers.

[dante]

yea word. the v10 are like 5600msrp i believe for 08, thats 1100 more for the iron horse, but everyone who idolizes hill will buy one.

whatever, at least the framsetr is affordable at 2500

source? I still get "Price Available August" on their website... would also like to compare spec to spec. :)

[Jeremy R]

Yep, crazy to me that every single democratic presidency for the last 100 years has had a highly positive effect on the US economy..

Now hold up for a second....
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d174/bikeryder007/carter.jpg

:busted:

[mandown]

I digress though, raising prices on bikes is the new black.....

thanks for my new signature.

[Eren]

source? I still get "Price Available August" on their website... would also like to compare spec to spec. :)

IMO spec on the iron horse is better, but there about par with each other, source is a santa cruz dealer, he said he "heard" around 5600

i just dont see where iron horse can justify 700 more this year, all the specs r the same as last year, except the ano paint job which costs a wee more. and on the ironhorse website it says the wc will be ano but at eurobike picture were gloss, anyone know what it will be?


and 2500 affordable for the frameset, was kind of a joke, yes affordable, but maybe not worth it.

[bizutch]

Considering Specialized just raised the price of the Demo 8 complete from $5k even to $6300.00 without changing anything....

[rockwool]

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

Sounds like you should come over to the political forum, we've discussed 9/11 quite a few times, you would love it!

[rosenamedpoop]

Now hold up for a second....
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d174/bikeryder007/carter.jpg

:busted:

Jimmy's effect on the US economy had a positive effect, noticed mostly during the first years of Reagan before slash and burn Reaganomics began undermining all post WWII economic progress.

[rockwool]

Spreading freedom costs money :)

Prophylactics cost money...

[rockwool]

ere, and she's as disillusioned as any after the whole experience......really wondering wtf exactly they're trying to acheive there.....

Divide and Conquer. Make allt the kids in the yard fight each other and then you have the opportunity to steal their bikes.

[dante]

Prophylactics cost money...

children cost more. :huh:

[stiksandstones]

children cost more. :huh:

Do they ever.

[dante]

Do they ever.

Or so I've heard!! :banana:

[bizutch]

Do they ever.

Stik, that kid might be mine if only Leigh would have paid closer attention to me at Helen, GA.....:brows:

[James]

Confirmed.

Anyone who doubts, take a look at the published data on metals futures from 2002 to 2007. Through the roof.

Boy, conspiracy theories are a lot more interesting for discussion than the truth, I have to admit..

It's because of all the raw material you're buying for that "machine" you're building deep underground...

[dante]

It's because of all the raw material you're buying for that "machine" you're building deep underground...

actual pic of dw:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/The_Underminer.jpg

[stiksandstones]

Stik, that kid might be mine if only Leigh would have paid closer attention to me at Helen, GA.....:brows:

She was too busy watching Brian puke from alcohol for the first time in helen.

BTW, where does one buy a high end Iron Horse? I have been to shops here in so cal within a 100 mile radius of my house and never seen a sunday for sale, just the consumer line at sports stores? Not a jab at IH, just wondering where you all get these things.

[bizutch]

She was too busy watching Brian puke from alcohol for the first time in helen.

BTW, where does one buy a high end Iron Horse? I have been to shops here in so cal within a 100 mile radius of my house and never seen a sunday for sale, just the consumer line at sports stores? Not a jab at IH, just wondering where you all get these things.

for whatever reason, they manage to under supply each year. I have a feeling they are treating them as gold and controling supply lines to maximize pricing. I had gotten very lucky (can't believe you have to be considered "lucky" to get a complete DH bike in April!!) and my dealer laid hands on the very first one off the truck of the Elite when he found out all the World Cups were going to be claimed before a single one even shipped out. While everyone else was lining up dollars for the World Cup and being told no mas, we went to the front of the line on the Elite.

I gutted it, put my juiciest bits on it and made my own World Cup...which is for sale currently by the way for $3600.00 US complete w/ I9 wheels and 2008 DH40. bizutch@hotmail.com

great segway...don't ya think....:happydance:

[Winston]

The Path in Tustin, CA.

BTW, where does one buy a high end Iron Horse? I have been to shops here in so cal within a 100 mile radius of my house and never seen a sunday for sale, just the consumer line at sports stores? Not a jab at IH, just wondering where you all get these things.

[dropmachine.com]

Sportchek in Canada.








hahahahahahahahaha! Yeah right. Only if you want the fork on backwards.

[FlipFantasia]

I thought 'growing the sport' and 'more demand' would lead to lower prices? at least that's what all the hype-ers have been telling me.....

[danielbender]

Mongosse sells a complete bike EC-D for $3299. I'm sure they are making money!

IH 2008 price are BS......

...how much does it cost a frame in TW to produce? my guess... no under $250,00
... the profit is excellent... why increase more?

I guess they are selling more IH in Europe than in the US.... that's one of the reasons....
.... Sam Hill asked for a rase..... that's probably the second reason...

[dw]

She was too busy watching Brian puke from alcohol for the first time in helen.

BTW, where does one buy a high end Iron Horse? I have been to shops here in so cal within a 100 mile radius of my house and never seen a sunday for sale, just the consumer line at sports stores? Not a jab at IH, just wondering where you all get these things.

I think that less of them exist than people actually think. Just because everyone wants a Sunday doesn't mean they have one.

Dave

[dw]

Mongosse sells a complete bike EC-D for $3299. I'm sure they are making money!

IH 2008 price are BS......

...how much does it cost a frame in TW to produce? my guess... no under $250,00
... the profit is excellent... why increase more?

I guess they are selling more IH in Europe than in the US.... that's one of the reasons....
.... Sam Hill asked for a rase..... that's probably the second reason...

It costs more to produce a Sunday in the US than Taiwan... WAY MORE than $250.

Sam Hill's contract has not changed.

[MMike]

All those stem cells that Sam Hill eats aren't cheap....

[Secret Squirrel]

Stem cell brioche, anyone?!

[stiksandstones]

The theory that bike prices go up based on a riders salary is the most humorous thing I have read on ridemonkey.

[danielbender]

The theory that bike prices go up based on a riders salary is the most humorous thing I have read on ridemonkey.

I guess you undterstand i was joking!!

:happydance:

[mfzbike]

apparently some new asian import export tax or something went into affect recently as well

[altix]

I thought 'growing the sport' and 'more demand' would lead to lower prices? at least that's what all the hype-ers have been telling me.....

THEY LIE!

[vpfree05]

Maybe the shipping cost from Taiwan went up.

[X777]

Considering Specialized just raised the price of the Demo 8 complete from $5k even to $6300.00 without changing anything....

who with right mind would buy demo 8 anyway?! this price tag is well suited for all psychos out there :brows:

[3D.]

And I remember everyone being blown away 5 years ago when we started paying 2/3 the price of a new moto, for something that was missing the motor.

Funny how MTbike production growth and pricing works opposite of the moto industry... basically the same materials, right?

I understand that very few bikes are mass produced, but if this really is a material and dollar bill issue... why haven't we seen moto pricing go through the roof as well?

Motos have gone up, but not at the rate of our motorless obsessions.

oem shock = $300 tops
raw materials = $400
bearings = $30
labor = $400
paint = $100
shop = $200
frame build total = $1430 (+ or -)

PROFIT = $1000- $1500 for a $2500-$3000 frame :huh:

[MMike]

Labour $400? How many hours do you figure it takes to cut, bend machine, weld, paint, assemble, ship a frame?

[seth505]

I think the problem with this thread might be that everyone on the interweb feels they are a great candidate for a production manager

[MMike]

I think the problem with this thread might be that everyone on the interweb feels they are a great candidate for a production manager

Oh if ONLY someone in this thread actually WAS....hmmmmm....

[dw]

And I remember everyone being blown away 5 years ago when we started paying 2/3 the price of a new moto, for something that was missing the motor.

Funny how MTbike production growth and pricing works opposite of the moto industry... basically the same materials, right?

I understand that very few bikes are mass produced, but if this really is a material and dollar bill issue... why haven't we seen moto pricing go through the roof as well?

Motos have gone up, but not at the rate of our motorless obsessions.

oem shock = $300 tops
raw materials = $400
bearings = $30
labor = $400
paint = $100
shop = $200
frame build total = $1430 (+ or -)

PROFIT = $1000- $1500 for a $2500-$3000 frame :huh:

been discussed plenty of times, read the archives. Motos use inferior manufacturing tecqniques compared to bicycles. There are minimum weight limits for moto racing classes and of course engines. A DH bicycle frame built with moto technology would weigh a MINIMUM of 18 lbs.

The old adage "strength, cost, and weight, pick two" applies here. If you are interested in more use the search function.

Dave

[bullcrew]

A $700 increase is supply and demand. What does the oil in the fork amount to a couple of barrels and opec is tightening their reign on the free world fork market. A frame at $200 maybe $300 is a materials increas but $700 not a chance............. Company made an executive decision to have a better profit margin.
Forgot, the good news is IH owners can now sell last years rigs for what they paid . :D

[MMike]

A $700 increase is supply and demand. What does the oil in the fork amount to a couple of barrels and opec is tightening their reign on the free world fork market. A frame at $200 maybe $300 is a materials increas but $700 not a chance............. Company made an executive decision to have a better profit margin.
Forgot, the good news is IH owners can now sell last years rigs for what they paid . :D


you say this based on.......?

[CBJ]

Companies has to maintain the same profit margin % if possible. So by increasing the cost of a bike by only the increased production cost they would minimize profit margin %

[f0ggy]

Who cares?

[gemini2k]

oem shock = $300 tops
raw materials = $400
bearings = $30
labor = $400
paint = $100
shop = $200
frame build total = $1430 (+ or -)

PROFIT = $1000- $1500 for a $2500-$3000 frame :huh:

LOL. Raw materials 400 bucks? Are you kidding? Theres like maybe 20 pounds of aluminum that going in to producing a DH frame (just the frame, no bearings, shock etc). Aluminum is like what, 2-3 bucks a pound, maybe 5 for really "good" aluminum?

So figure 4*20 (generous estimates)=$80

Are any of my assumptions wrong? (it's possible, I'm no production engineer). The bulk of the costs is development, which you have not included. But yes it is all a scam. Spec and IH have raised prices (a lot). And yet mongoose hasn't, yet they' improved the spec.......

[bullcrew]

you say this based on.......?

You question me based on what?
I say it because i can and I really dont think that theres a $700 increase in materials or workmanship. BS Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said that there wasnt an increase but after being in the manufacturing end of things and anodizing machined parts from around the globe I have a pretty good idea as to what goes on from a variety of suppliers and shops as well. Finding cost alternatives for shops was my primary job as well as trying to fit there bottom line.

BTW: Those links for the Karp rocked! Thanks :thumb:

[dw]

Bullcrew,

Since when has anyone bought a bike directly from Iron Horse? There are 2 sets of people putting their markup on the bike after IH sells it. A bike shop and distributor work on margin, percentage points, not a straight markup. If IH sells a bike to a distributor for $100 and $200 respectively, the prices are not $200 and $300, more like $200 and $350. (#'s Just to illustrate the point.)

[bizutch]

Bullcrew,

Since when has anyone bought a bike directly from Iron Horse? There are 2 sets of people putting their markup on the bike after IH sells it. A bike shop and distributor work on margin, percentage points, not a straight markup. If IH sells a bike to a distributor for $100 and $200 respectively, the prices are not $200 and $300, more like $200 and $350. (#'s Just to illustrate the point.)

Dave...you must be very busy...that's about the least in depth explanation you've went for in a while.

As for increasing price on the bikes overall, I came from production too. And I'm a little bit skeptical, but not much. Frame is not modified as far as I can tell this year, so no new tooling, refitting or engineering costs to pass on to the client. It's a second year blueprint frame being fully speced out of the same facility as last year, so cost of production goes DOWN on a second year product. Plus, there are no new piece parts on the bikes this year that can account for a dramatic increase in costs, other than a set of Ti bolts.

If anything, last years pricing should mean more profit this year due to no dramatic startup costs for new designs...or maybe last year the World Cup was sold at a loss (Corvette theory), they are either breaking even or making a small profit this year.

My guess is the corvette theory applied last year so this year, they are actually trying to make a reasonable profit off the Sundays.
Add the increases from market pressures others have mentioned and I guess you're there at $6300.00. :thumb:

[Sherpa]

Dave...you must be very busy...that's about the least in depth explanation you've went for in a while.

As for increasing price on the bikes overall, I came from production too. And I'm a little bit skeptical, but not much. Frame is not modified as far as I can tell this year, so no new tooling, refitting or engineering costs to pass on to the client. It's a second year blueprint frame being fully speced out of the same facility as last year, so cost of production goes DOWN on a second year product. Plus, there are no new piece parts on the bikes this year that can account for a dramatic increase in costs, other than a set of Ti bolts.

If anything, last years pricing should mean more profit this year due to no dramatic startup costs for new designs...or maybe last year the World Cup was sold at a loss (Corvette theory), they are either breaking even or making a small profit this year.

My guess is the corvette theory applied last year so this year, they are actually trying to make a reasonable profit off the Sundays.
Add the increases from market pressures others have mentioned and I guess you're there at $6300.00. :thumb:

I hope your joking. Theres NO way they don't make money on a $6k bicycle.

But if no one bought one, the price would go down. Seriously. Its a fact.

[bullcrew]

Bullcrew,

Since when has anyone bought a bike directly from Iron Horse? There are 2 sets of people putting their markup on the bike after IH sells it. A bike shop and distributor work on margin, percentage points, not a straight markup. If IH sells a bike to a distributor for $100 and $200 respectively, the prices are not $200 and $300, more like $200 and $350. (#'s Just to illustrate the point.)

Uh yeah, i was going to type a rebutal but theres too many angles to hit it from and I dont have time.
Wow! Iron Horse has just become a center for presedential debates along with tax reform and relegion (can go on for hours and still have no end). There is no right answer just your own. :banana:
That makes me right!!!!!!!!!!

[Santa Maria]

If you want one of the best bikes out there you have to pay the price. Its easy as that.

[MMike]

I hope your joking. Theres NO way they don't make money on a $6k bicycle.


Is that bad? When did you guys become red commie pinkos?

[Eren]

by raising the msrp by 700, wouldnt that mean there selling to distributers for 700 more as well?

[ChrisKring]

You guys are all nuts. Do you think we should have government supplied bikes too? If the price is too high, buy something else.

If you think that the manufactures are burning $100 bills, start making your own frames and grab a piece of that pie. Really though, I am sure that it takes years to amoritize the ED&D and tool expense across relatively very few frames.

There are many things that are probably affecting the price including the exchange rate, material pricing, fuel pricing, labor, etc.

[dante]

by raising the msrp by 700, wouldnt that mean there selling to distributers for 700 more as well?

no.


45

[rockwool]

actual pic of dw:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/The_Underminer.jpg

Le Trogló?

[dw]

actual pic of dw:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/The_Underminer.jpg

that was before I got my platinum GRIIIIILLE

[Eren]

no.


45

i see, i stand corrected. 45 dollars more? 450 dollars more? :disgust:

[Kornphlake]

I'm not sure if it adds confusion or confirmation to the discussion but I happen to be employed by a company that does a lot of fabrication. My job descripiton involves providing manufacturing quotes for marketing so I plugged some very generic numbers into our quoting spreadsheet to get a very rough estimate, based on steel tube at our cost. I assumed no gussets, I assumed robotic MIG welding, I assumed all tubes were straight, I assumed all tubes were the same diameter and that the total length of tubing consumed was 20ft, I assumed front and rear triangles would be powder coated black with no decals. I did not calculate the cost of dropouts or welding them to the frame, welding cable stops, reaming the head tube, threading the BB, slitting the seat tube for a seat clamp, machining linkages, assembling the linkages to the frame, the cost of bearings, or other misc goods associated with a complete frame.

The price I came up with for a very basic, essentially non-functional, front and rear triangle made out of 2"x.120 straight gage low carbon steel tube throughout is about $90. Total material cost was around $35, I'd expect custom drawn aluminum tubes to be several times that cost, TIG welding aluminum will be more expensive than robotic welding steel, I'd expect 2-3 times our cost for welding steel. The machined linkages, machined pivot points, headtube and bottom braket machining could eaisly cost more than the fabrication cost of the tube frame. The shock will add another few hundred, the cable stops, seat clamp, dropouts, bearings and other odds and ends will add another hundred or so. I could easily believe IH's costs for a complete frame with a shock and all necessary hardware would be in the ball park of $800. I know that our marketing department will double our manufactured cost for a baseline selling price, which is consistant with what I've seen in other industries, the distributors get their cut, vendors get their cut and MSRP ends up being as much as 8x the manufacturing costs. 8x $800=$6400 so the prices seem pretty well justified, IH is making an average profit, not to mention that I'd be suprised if IH hadn't been operating at very low profit margins for the last several years to build brand loyalty.

[Secret Squirrel]

*Useful Info.*

Pffffft....what are you doing?!?!?!

This thread is for wild e-speculation only!!!







:busted:

[Internal14]

Too expensive?
Buy something else.

Enough said.
In the end, what good does it do any of us here to know WHY the prices have jumped? They have, and you either are going to suck it up to have a Hill Replica, or you'll move onto something else.

I can't believe these 'big' companies that are producing bike overseas are charging Made in the USA prices. Look at a Ventana Cuervo, made in the usa, everything made in house, on very small scale. Every little cnc bit is made there. Frames are heat treated and powdered in house too. That frame is hundreds less than a IH or Spec frame. How's that possible? I know they're not using the Corvette model of doing business...

Buy the hype, or not, it's your money, you decide.

[dante]

i see, i stand corrected. 45 dollars more? 450 dollars more? :disgust:

depends on the markup that the distributor and the dealer have. for example in the US it's :

cost x frame factory markup x assembly factory markup x duty x company markup x dealer markup

for international it's something along the lines of:

cost x frame factory markup x assembly factory markup x company markup x duty x distributor markup x dealer markup

combine cost of materials increase along with plummeting dollar value, and you get higher prices across the board.

[dropmachine.com]

Last time I checked, an Iron Horse Sunday, wonderful as it may be (I've never tried one), is simply not a staple of life. Price goes up, deal with it. Iron Horse just isn't a stupid company, they know they have a hot commodity and are going to take advantage of that. And why shouldn't they? You can clearly see the progression they have made with the frame, all the improvements, tweaks and so forth.

You wanna play, you gotta pay.

I can guarantee cost of manufacturing definitely plays a part in the price increase, but IH is almost a boutique brand now, and the pricing is starting to reflect that. Its like buying Sony, Ferarrii, Oakley, or any other company whos producst are partially image based.

[gemini2k]

wUrd, bikes ain't cheap to make, and iron horse probably isn't "ripping" anyone off, but the fact remains that the iron horse is probably not 2-3k "better" than the mongoose. But then again, that's a meaningless statement because it is ~100% subjective :'(. Food for thought.

[gemini2k]

that was before I got my platinum GRIIIIILLE

whoa **** he's baller now.

Hey DW, question, do you think the bike industry could benefit from consolidating (ala moto industry)? Im talking price wise. I don't know a whole lot about the cost structure of a bike company, but I'm guessing lots of it is development and marketing costs over mfg costs. I curious as to your thoughts, given you have actual, inside, real information.

[James]

that was before I got my platinum GRIIIIILLE

I thought you developed a whole new alloy with superior pimp-shine and pop-capping characteristics?

[OGRipper]

Yowza, fun thread, classic e-spec at its finest. :thumb:

I've never run a bike company but I know that there are so many things that go into it that have not been mentioned here, all of which effect the bottom line. Research and development has been mentioned, but to just scratch the surface, what about rent, employee salaries, insurance, marketing, and legal costs?

Plus, what about the huge (HUGE!!) royalties paid to DW for The Link? ;)

I suspect margins are way lower than most think. An old saying comes to mind: "Want to make a small fortune in the bike biz? Start with a big one."

In the end, it doesn't matter anyway, there is no magic formula, no "standard" profit margin, and the whole thing is fluid anyway. If you want a Sunday, sack up and pay the price. If you think you are getting gouged unfairly, vote with your wallet and get something else.

[bizutch]

...
I suspect margins are way lower than most think. An old saying comes to mind: "Want to make a small fortune in the bike biz? Start with a big one."

...
Actually, a little more accurate but still staying truer to Richard Branson:

"It's easy to become a millionaire. Simply start with a billion dollars and buy a bike company."

[Eren]

depends on the markup that the distributor and the dealer have. for example in the US it's :

cost x frame factory markup x assembly factory markup x duty x company markup x dealer markup

for international it's something along the lines of:

cost x frame factory markup x assembly factory markup x company markup x duty x distributor markup x dealer markup

combine cost of materials increase along with plummeting dollar value, and you get higher prices across the board.

i see i see. msrp doenst really mean the rpice its selling for anyways, i got my team from go ride last year for 3100 wen msrp was 4100. Pre orders rock :)

[Sherpa]

Is that bad? When did you guys become red commie pinkos?

No not at all. I hope Iron Horse sells out and boosts their profits, because there a good company and a company should always try and get the most profit available.

Demand won't change because of price, but quantity demanded will. But because quantity demanded went up, price went up. Its simple economics. If people don't like the price, then they don't have to buy one and if enough people don't buy one, they'll have to lower the price (probably won't happen, but you never know),

[3D.]

been discussed plenty of times, read the archives. Motos use inferior manufacturing tecqniques compared to bicycles. There are minimum weight limits for moto racing classes and of course engines. A DH bicycle frame built with moto technology would weigh a MINIMUM of 18 lbs.

The old adage "strength, cost, and weight, pick two" applies here. If you are interested in more use the search function.

Dave

Didn't mean to change thread focus, I just can't help comparing the different amounts of materials that are involved with building either a DH bike or a Motocross bike.

But you’re right, our bikes are extremely light for what they do, it’s pretty amazing really.
I just think it will be a better day when people can buy high end factory built bike for a substantially cheaper price than a scratch component build of the same bike. That would obviously require oem pricing to come down quite a bit as well.

Have you ever, just for fun, priced a moto from scratch? $$$$=small mortgage

I’m not really sure how you guys came up with a mathematical formula to produce type vs. weight results. Let’s be realistic here, you have one bike that can produce 40-70hp against a bike that produces 0hp. Seems like a difficult tech and spec comparison to me with the whole power-to-weight ratio issue. Maybe if I get some time I’ll dig some of those threads up and see how you did it.

By the way, I probably should have originally stated that I was referring to an average frame build. There are a lot of companies out there charging high end prices for average frames, especially with some of the single pivot price tags.

[mack]

What do you expect? The US dollar has been diving against almost every other major currency due to protracted wars and massive overseas debt..........

****in nerd, calm your bed no one wants to hear that ****.

AND GET ME SOME WAFFLE FRIES BITCH.



Heres the real tuffness. spend more and go faster.


http://www.yeticycles.com/Bikes/BikesMedia/BikesMedia303/303Detail.jpg


edit: holy **** this forum is a bunch of nerds. yall stop quarelling about crazy ass **** where the biked at?

[Santa Maria]

looks nice, but does not work as good as the DW Suspension.......

[frznnomad]

do you have ample proof to back that up there santa maria. cause every company says there design is the best, and that rail system will handle square hits, and rock gardens a whole lot better than the dw link.

[FlyinPolack]

i bet that yeti is a bit scrunchy in the mud...
god forbid a rock wedges in there...:bonk:

[bizutch]

do you have ample proof to back that up there santa maria. cause every company says there design is the best, and that rail system will handle square hits, and rock gardens a whole lot better than the dw link.

Shut your goof hole you 'tard. :D
you ride a ghetto'ed out SGS on Forest Service trails and have not showed up to a single race in 2 years.:busted:

Oh..and see you at Wayehutta. I'm gonna buy you a sing that says "This End Up" so you'll stay off your helmet. :rofl:

edit: holy **** this forum is a bunch of nerds. yall stop quarelling about crazy ass **** where the biked at?

Not even CLOSE!!! You wanna see nerds....I just got back from getting a haircut. The biz in the little strip mall next to the hair place is a "Game Center". They have Magic the Gathering. They don't open til 3pm in the afternoon. Dudes and chicks go in there dressed in full on wizards and warrior kit and play til 3am...most of whom are dropped off by their parents!! Compared to them, we're as cool as they come!:nerd: :rockout:

[Mani_UT]

i bet that yeti is a bit scrunchy in the mud...god forbid a rock wedges in there...:bonk:

How about you ride one instead of making stupid assumptions. tard.

[Brian HCM#1]

My opinion why IH is charging more money for their bikes..................
Because they can. They have become the Turner DHR of a few years ago. Everyone wants one, so why not make a little more money. When Santa Cruz first came out with the V10, it was one of the best bangs for the buck. When it's popularity went through the roof, they were able to charge more, and yes, this was before the change in frame design. If people want a product bad enough, they'll pay for it.

[frznnomad]

bizutch if that statement wasnt so funny and ohh so true i might just have to take offense to that. ohh and when is weyehutta cause i really want to attend and need a good excuse to go.

originally posted by flyinpolack
god forbid a rock wedges in there

wow i think that has got to be the most intelligent first post ever.

[danielbender]

....Sam Hill's contract has not changed.

Maybe now it will!!!
Same as Sabrina´s

Two Worlds each !

they are looking for a good paycheck!

or maybe another brand will take them out from IH?

[norbar]

Would be good cuz then we would know which one of the 2 hypes is true - the riders or the bikes

[bizutch]

bizutch if that statement wasnt so funny and ohh so true i might just have to take offense to that. ohh and when is weyehutta cause i really want to attend and need a good excuse to go.



wow i think that has got to be the most intelligent first post ever.

soon...thinking mid-October.