Another steel frame thread. [Archive]

i-ride

06-12-2007, 08:13 PM

I'm looking for a (preferrably steel) hardtail frame for aggressive XC. I'm 230lbs fully geared and ride pretty hard... Most of my mileage is XC-oriented, but I routinely hit all the technical trail features, including drops no greater than 3'.

I want a bike that takes abuse from a hard-riding clydesdale, yet is reasonably comfortable on the epic XC rides.

Will be using a Reba 115mm fork and am looking for a HTA range of 69-71*. Need 23-24" top tube, and at least a 19" seat tube.

Have kicked around:
Azonic Steelhead, not sure about weight and hta
Evil Sovereign, not sure if it has enough seat tube
Chromag TRL
Also: (tho may or may not be steel):
Banshee Viento or Scirocco
DMR Trailstar (only make it in 16" ? )
SC Chameleon

Have hit inummerable manufacturer sites and just can't seem to find what I'm looking for just yet.. Am I missing anything out there?

MMcG

06-12-2007, 08:55 PM

why do you need it to have a specific seat tube height?

On One Inbred 456
Cotic Soul (hard to find in the US)
Dialled bikes Prince Albert (another one that might be hard to find)

tu_es_bici

06-12-2007, 08:59 PM

Because he can't get a 3 foot seat post.

i-ride

06-12-2007, 09:43 PM

reflux

06-12-2007, 11:38 PM

BurlyShirley

06-13-2007, 06:45 AM

The Cove Handjob
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e42/BurlyShirley/NewCove.jpg
It's steel and the geometry is very close to that of a chameleon. They're cheap too. Around $595 for the frame and made in Canada.

MMcG

06-13-2007, 08:12 AM

Exactly, cause a 3' thomson post is ridiculous pricey. I just don't want a bike with all that seat post stickin out.. looks silly.

I looked at the 456, but it doesn't use a removable der hanger. Is the concept of a hanger the same for steel as it is for alum? that being that it protects from irreparable frame damage..

edit: oh, and i ride full gears, no ss.

More exposed seatpost will actually give you a slightly more compliant ride on a hardtail.

Steel frames don't need replaceable derailleur hangers.

The On One 456 is not a single speed frame but a geared frame.

Hope that helps.

Mark

MMcG

06-13-2007, 08:14 AM

Steel frames normally don't need a replacable hanger, as the properties of steel allow it the hanger to be bent back into position without sacrificing strength.

I'd look into a Surly Instigator. I rode one for a year and LOVED it. Unfortunately I made the mistake of selling it and have regretted it ever since.

That was a fun ride! The Instigator will get the job done as well and could be another slightly more burly option for you to consider.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n60/MMcG25/surlytwo.jpg

JRogers

06-13-2007, 08:58 AM

Haven't ridden most of those bikes, but I can tell you that the Steelhead is heavy as all hell.

i-ride

06-13-2007, 09:10 AM

If that's the case with steel hangers, then that will no longer be a deal-breaker.. I did see the Handjob, but thought 68.5 was a little slack for me, especially considering i'd be extending slightly beyond their spec'd fork travel.

I had been overlooking Surly as i figured they were all strictly SS. I'm pleasantly surprised to know about the Instigator.. which looks hot..

Now i know why i come to Monkies for info like this! Keep it comin'.

reflux

06-13-2007, 12:33 PM

That was a fun ride! The Instigator will get the job done as well and could be another slightly more burly option for you to consider.
Why do you have to tease me with photos? Really, why?? I was one or two days late of buying it back last year when it was resold for the third(?) time. Sigh... yes :imstupid:

MMcG

06-13-2007, 12:38 PM

you can usually find good deals on Instigator frames on ebay from time to time.

Also any bike shop can order one through Quality Bike Parts for you.

BurlyShirley

06-13-2007, 06:53 PM

I did see the Handjob, but thought 68.5 was a little slack for me, especially considering i'd be extending slightly beyond their spec'd fork travel.

The new ones are good up to 130mm travel.

i-ride

06-13-2007, 07:20 PM

The new ones are good up to 130mm travel.yea.. but every mm over 100 slackens the head angle beyond 68.5 - which is too slack for me to begin with. That's what I'm sayin. I don't know, maybe it's not. Thing is- it's so hard to find a dealer to test ride bikes like this.. and a dealer that has your size built up.

MMcG

06-13-2007, 07:42 PM

Wumpus

06-15-2007, 04:45 PM

If that's the case with steel hangers, then that will no longer be a deal-breaker.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/Aydynj/BrewBent.jpg

A crescent wrench and a little brute force fixed her right up.

BikeMike

06-15-2007, 07:18 PM

Steelhead frames weigh in at around 7lbs. They need long seatposts to get good leg extension. If you're 5'10 or so there's a good chance you'll need a 410mm seatpost. Not sure about the HTA, if I had to guess, I'd say you'd probably be sitting around 70-ish w/ your fork.

I rode mine as my only bike for a summer--it was heavy and fun. Uh, and the TTs are short, probably too short for you (Eff TT on the long is <23").

i-ride

06-15-2007, 08:09 PM

yea.. i think the Steelhead is now pretty much ruled out based on weight and geo (short ST and TT)..

So Wumpus: you bent the sucker right back to straight and it's just as strong as before? Friend and i were chatting- isn't this property called the 'time to fatigue' of a material?

Right now I'm really liking the Chromag TRL (or Samurai).. or the aluminum Banshee Scirocco- but still plenty of time to decide.

slow_v6_stang

06-18-2007, 12:43 AM

how hard of riding are you going to do? i used to ride a gunnar steel frame for a while...very nice bike, but mostly an XC frame

MMcG

06-18-2007, 08:43 AM

for the price of one of those Chromags, I bet you could work with a custom builder for a custom steel frame built just for you. Just a thought.

i-ride

06-18-2007, 11:22 AM

Yea, those Chromags are out of my $range now that I take a closer look. Fug.

What kind of riding? Aggressive XC, 230lbs fully geared, no hits over 2.5-3', though I'd like some room to grow. Lots of technical, rocky, steep ups and downs, etc. The rest of my riding time is on smoother singletrack with tons of features, log hops, skinnies, etc.

MMcG

06-18-2007, 11:29 AM

An Evil Sovereign is your ticket my friend. IF you can afford one. I think they are right around $700 or so?

Like this one - only run it geared:

http://www.shastasucks.com/uploads/IMG_3430_low.jpg

i-ride

06-18-2007, 06:52 PM

MMcG, the Sovereign is on my list, actually. But I'm not sure if it has enough seat tube for my liking. I'll need about 28" from BB to rails.. and I guess I just didn't want a bunch of post exposed. Although it's sexy as all hell, built to last a mutha.. and at ~ 6lbs, not very heavy for high quality steel. How tall are you?- may i ax.

I can definitely afford the Evil bikes.

MMcG

06-18-2007, 07:00 PM

That's not my bike.

More seatpost will provide a little bit more cushion for your ride actually.

You'd probably want a Long Sov anyway and that probably has more seat tube.

i-ride

06-18-2007, 07:02 PM

nah.. they're all 16".. it's just the tt that is an inch-ish longer.

MMcG

06-18-2007, 07:06 PM

Again - you could consider going custom. Or a Surly Instigator would save you a lot of dough.

Mr Tiles

06-18-2007, 08:39 PM

An Evil Sovereign is your ticket my friend. IF you can afford one. I think they are right around $700 or so?

Like this one - only run it geared:

http://www.shastasucks.com/uploads/IMG_3430_low.jpg

beat me to it. thanks for posting my bike up mmark :cheers:

the sov is the shiz. I was looking for an AM SS and it's so much more than just that. I highly recommend one even though it's a little more loot...

Wumpus

06-21-2007, 09:16 PM

So Wumpus: you bent the sucker right back to straight and it's just as strong as before? Friend and i were chatting- isn't this property called the 'time to fatigue' of a material?

I haven't had any problems with it -- 2.5 years.

I really don't know if this has anything to do with it:

Fatigue failures are insidious. Failure can occur even though the part was never highly stressed. So why does it fail? Metals have a crystalline microstructure, and the crystals are not perfect because no metal can be perfectly manufactured. Under repeated loads the stresses cause micro cracks to form in the crystal structure of the metal. Over time enough of these cracks form that as they gradually extend, they begin to connect to form larger cracks. As these micro cracks begin to appear, the flow of stresses through the part is changed. The stresses must flow around and between these disruptions. The stress concentrations at the ends of the cracks act to multiply the increased local internal stresses, leading to faster crack propagation. As more cracks form and more cracks join, the conditions get worse and worse, and the fatigue effects accelerate. Failure becomes inevitable.

Steel is a very fatigue resistant metal. It has what is called a "Fatigue Threshold". Research has found that as long as the stresses are below about one half of the yield strength, there is little or no tendency for the micro cracks to grow and connect, and so the fatigue life approaches infinity. Bicycles are designed for optimum rigidity for the intended use. By the time a steel frame is made stiff enough, it is usually strong that the fatigue threshold is seldom reached. This is why steel frames last so long.

Batman

06-28-2007, 12:49 PM

I'm 6'2 and ride a long sovereign. Fits well with the post extended...I run a 50mm stem, so if I were to run a longer stem and perhaps a set-back seatpost it would be a little better fit...
It sounds like the sovereign could be the perfect bike for you if you can make it fit...
I'll get some pictures of mine up soon...

Batman

06-28-2007, 12:51 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Mattm_905/Evil%20Sovereign/P1000338.jpg

Ian F

06-28-2007, 01:09 PM

What kind of riding? Aggressive XC, 230lbs fully geared, no hits over 2.5-3', though I'd like some room to grow. Lots of technical, rocky, steep ups and downs, etc. The rest of my riding time is on smoother singletrack with tons of features, log hops, skinnies, etc.

Are you in Fredrick as in Fredrick, MD?

If so, then the Surly is you frame (size L). I know a couple of guys who beat the snot out of those frames on the trails in the area - one of them far bigger than you. It'll work with anything from a 4" fork for XC duties up to 6" for more DH-oriented runs.

As an added plus, it's reasonably priced.

dirtydirtysouf

06-29-2007, 07:54 AM

i say get a steelhead...........the weight is only 7#'s for the frame.....for big guys (me 280#) a few #'s isanot going to kill you on the trails...............

BurlyShirley

06-29-2007, 08:51 AM

i say get a steelhead...........the weight is only 7#'s for the frame.....for big guys (me 280#) a few #'s isanot going to kill you on the trails...............

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the steelhead is really not a very good option as a trail bike. Regardless of the weight, the thing is meant to be a play bike. I cannot imagine riding one for any significant distance.

dirtydirtysouf

06-29-2007, 09:21 AM

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the steelhead is really not a very good option as a trail bike. Regardless of the weight, the thing is meant to be a play bike. I cannot imagine riding one for any significant distance.

its pretty easy to ride........im running a 4" fork and the HA is 67.5 deg.....its more then a true XC bike but its a good all arounder

i-ride

06-29-2007, 11:38 AM

Are you in Fredrick as in Fredrick, MD?

If so, then the Surly is youYup, Fredrick MD. That Instigator is nice... and i've heard lots of good stuff. I don't care for the cable routing.

Batman.. nice rig. What's it come in at? 30+ lbs?

Since my last post.. I've moved away from steel.. more towards either the Banshee Scirocco or the Viento.

BurlyShirley

06-29-2007, 04:51 PM

Ive ridden the 'shed before. I think the instigator would be perfect for that place. Pretty decent climber, not overly beefy like some FR hardtails, but can still take all you got. Go with it. Was the first bike I ever built from the frame up, and I still miss it.

i-ride

06-29-2007, 10:53 PM

Ive ridden the 'shed before. I think the instigator would be perfect for that place. Pretty decent climber, not overly beefy like some FR hardtails, Instigator is 6.61 lbs, the Scirocco is 5.

blue

06-29-2007, 11:27 PM

yeah it'll be hard to find a dealer with a Cove or Sinister or On One

Maybe an On One - might be worth it to call the Pedal Stop in Arlington Virginia - I think that's where they are - they usually carry On Ones.

Both Cove and On One are carried by BTI, nearly any shop can get them (provided they're in stock).

MMcG

06-30-2007, 08:19 AM

You sure BTI carries On Ones??

Zedsport www.zedsport.com is the US distributor

blue

07-01-2007, 07:41 PM

You sure BTI carries On Ones??

Zedsport www.zedsport.com is the US distributor

http://bti-usa.com/list.asp?cat=FR&sec=FRFR&mfr=ON&page=&reuse=1&showSec=0&filter=&searchtype=&showGrp=ON9874#open

oh no i di'n't!

TroutBum

07-04-2007, 04:32 PM

16" & 18" in stock at PricePoint (http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16535-175_ONO567-3-Parts-60-Frames/On-One-Inbred-456-Frame-2007.htm) ....quite pleased with mine. Durable enough, although I hesitate to accept the 'freeride' nomenclature of the marketing gurus.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/stevensname/456.jpg

MMcG

07-06-2007, 06:15 AM

http://bti-usa.com/list.asp?cat=FR&sec=FRFR&mfr=ON&page=&reuse=1&showSec=0&filter=&searchtype=&showGrp=ON9874#open

oh no i di'n't!

I stand corrected.

soreyes

07-06-2007, 01:58 PM

the nashbar reynolds 853 is a great value in the low 200 range when the 20% discounts come around. -

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=17655

Here's what I built up:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/sets/72157600318479875/

Some of those pics show off the burly nature of the rear triangle tubing.

and some reviews -

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Bike_hardtail/product_128520.shtml

reflux

07-06-2007, 02:47 PM

the nashbar reynolds 853 is a great value in the low 200 range when the 20% discounts come around. -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/sets/72157600318479875/
I have to admit, that frame looks like a steal for only a couple hundred. I'd easily drop the dough if the geometry matched up (I didn't care to look as I don't need another steel frame).

Forest_biker

07-06-2007, 05:15 PM

http://www.fatsinthecats.com/photos/albums/userpics/10019/normal_Vassarwoodsmeeting.jpg (http://www.fatsinthecats.com/photos/albums/userpics/10019/Vassarwoodsmeeting.jpg)

Zion 660 Hardtail frame. Cro-Mo They say it's only good up to a 100mm fork but I've been using mine with a 120mm one and it handles fine.
It's also a cheaper option. It's my number two hardtail.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FR410A01-Zion+660+Frame.aspx

i-ride

07-06-2007, 08:49 PM

They say it's only good up to a 100mm fork but I've been using mine with a 120mm one and it handles fine... until it pulls the head tube clean off! it's not always just the handling, but how much leverage force the head tube can take, correct?

reflux

07-06-2007, 11:26 PM

.. until it pulls the head tube clean off! it's not always just the handling, but how much leverage force the head tube can take, correct?
Not necessarily, especially if the frame isn't designed to be a lightweight race frame. I rode my 2000 Dean 853, with no headtube gussets, for 1 year with a 5" Forx on the front. Why? Because it came that way and was too lazy to lower the travel. Granted my riding was limited to xc and trail riding (NO JUMPS), but the bike is still running perfect to this day.

Forest_biker

07-07-2007, 04:57 PM

.. until it pulls the head tube clean off! it's not always just the handling, but how much leverage force the head tube can take, correct?

Thanks for your concern.

It seems pretty obvious that you don't ride a Steel Cro-Mo frame as a XC hardtail.

With a 20mm difference (a little less than an inch 25.4mm) I'm really living on the edge....Oh yeah!:twitch:

i-ride

07-07-2007, 09:05 PM

Well if it's such an undiscernable difference, why mention it in the first place? Plus, it's the slippery slope deal. There are manufacturer recs for a reason.

Besides, for something like this, I don't think you'll notice any issues.. UNTIL you encounter a catastrophic one. No, I don't ride a steel bike.

I mean, isn't it conceivable that you could break the ht or junction by running a fork that's too big? It's not like I'm way out in left field.

wizardB

07-24-2007, 12:27 AM

If you want the best steelhard tail order your self a DeKerf they are the class of the pack when it comes to steel and they'll do a custom job too!

Huph

08-02-2007, 05:36 AM

I have been riding my Cotic Soul for about 18 months now. And it's still rocking my world big time. :cupidarrow:

http://www.vorb.org.nz/images/albums/userpics/10714/Cotic%20Soul~0.jpg

http://www.vorb.org.nz/ftopicp-726611.html#726611

http://www.cotic.co.uk/

They are now making a burlier version of my bike. The Bfe.

It's rated for 100-130 mm forks.

Go Cotic. You wont regret it. :cool: