The cure for AIDS is....more AIDS?

[skyst3alth]

Interesting:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=healthNews&storyid=2006-11-06T220335Z_01_N06300058_RTRUKOC_0_US-AIDS-VIRUS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An AIDS virus genetically engineered to fight other AIDS viruses worked better than expected, suppressing the virus and renewing the immune systems of a few patients, researchers reported on Monday.

The study involved just five people, and such an approach needs years more study, they cautioned -- but the surprising results offer new hope both for the field of gene therapy and for treating the fatal and incurable AIDS virus.

"The goal of this phase I trial was safety and feasibility and the results established that," said Dr. Carl June of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, who led the study.

"But the results also hint at something much more," he added.

"It seemed to have a vaccine-like effect in that the immune system was better in most of the patients than when they enrolled. We are trying to study the mechanism."

[eaterofdog]

Viral judo.

I'd hate to see their treatment for a kick in the nuts.

[jonKranked]

everyone's got AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!

[eaterofdog]

everyone's got AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!

LOL My wife gets pissed when I sing that.

[Jay Gatz]

three stooges syndrome?

[sanjuro]

paging toshi, toshi to the lounge...

[robdamanii]

Interesting, but it makes sense. The virus destroys immune cells and can't be killed. Engineering it to turn on itself....awesome.

[JohnE]

Isnt that the same general idea behind flu vaccine?

[robdamanii]

I think the flu vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies, while this thing actually attacks other AIDS viruses.

[ALEXIS_DH]

how you get rid on the improved version? do you live with it forever??? will you need further medication?

you see.. am a bit paranoid lately, but it appears to my looney-conspiracy side, the goal of pharmaceutical companies is shifting from cures for good, to hook-you-in-a-lifelong-treatment.

[BMXman]

the goal of pharmaceutical companies is shifting from cures for good, to hook-you-in-a-lifelong-treatment.

the reason why I no longer take medicine...there's something sinister going on...where'e my aluminum foil???...D

[Jeremy R]

the reason why I no longer take medicine...there's something sinister going on...where'e my aluminum foil???...D

That does not work so well for diabetics.

[Secret Squirrel]

That does not work so well for diabetics.

I'm sure aluminum foil works just fine for diabetics...they're just like everyone else....

[narlus]

how you get rid on the improved version? do you live with it forever??? will you need further medication?

you see.. am a bit paranoid lately, but it appears to my looney-conspiracy side, the goal of pharmaceutical companies is shifting from cures for good, to hook-you-in-a-lifelong-treatment.


how long have you worked for pharma companies to gain this brilliant insight?

[Toshi]

the reason why I no longer take medicine...there's something sinister going on...where'e my aluminum foil???...D
D, Alexis, please provide examples.

modern medicine is actually very straightforward about its aims, even if some (many) vestigal practices unsupported by evidence have yet to be weeded out. the real charlatans who sell snake-oil-in-perpetuity are practioners of "straight" chiropractic...

[ALEXIS_DH]

how long have you worked for pharma companies to gain this brilliant insight?

nothing but anecdotical evidence.
actually am not doing a j´acuse kinda acusation here either.

is just i notice there is a more powerful economic incentive to provide treatments than to provide cures, and a seemingly correlation in the rise of treatments VS cures over the last 40 years, in the medication branch i am a little familiar, due to me being a present consumer, and probable lifelong client.

seroquel, zyprexa, risperidal, etc.. all recent antipsychotics happen to hook you up forever. obviously my grasp of medicine is only consumer-deep, but wouldn´t a better "solution", biological limits allowing, be a "once and for good" (or at least not everyday) regulator of dopamine or something like that?

of course, the reason why psychiatric medication are made to treat instead of cure might well be because a cure is not biologically feasible, but when you have an economic incentive behind that (and meds cost as much as car payments, only you are bound to purchase them for life), your tin foil hat side starts to wonder, on the driving force in the whole industry, and why (if?) would it make economic sense to point for cures...

[Toshi]

psych meds are an interesting case. besides it being difficult if not infeasible to fix things "once and for good" due to the systems involved having their own self-feedback mechanisms, there's a high level of danger in it, too.

first to explain the feedback point above: all major systems, serotonin and dopamine included, have feedback systems. for example, a high level of thyroid hormone is sensed by the brain, which then sends less thyroid stimulating hormone out, which in turn causes thyroid hormone levels to come back to normal (in theory).

what this means practically is that if your brain is set to think that an abnormal level is normal, any one dose of meds will be eventually counteracted -- your own self-regulatory mechanisms will bring things back into equilibrium, albeit at the wrong point of equilibrium that caused you troubles in the first place.

second, on safety: it's a lot safer to have meds that you can stop as compared to permanent treatments, even if the meds may take a few weeks to wear off. given that many meds have side effects, some of which are quite horrible, not being able to try different options would be a huge downside. then you add in that not everyone responds to meds, especially antipsychotics, in the same way, and you see why the concept of hard coding a dose, mechanism, and route of administration is not a good idea.

i will grant you that big pharma does tend to concentrate on diseases for which a simple, cheap, one time cure is not in the cards -- they're out to make money, no question about it. that in itself is not enough to damn the industry, however, leaving the fields of medicine in which fixes are immediate and one-time (such as orthopedics) aside...

[ALEXIS_DH]

i dont damn the industry, i praise its achievements, but its raison d`etre comes with an uncomfortable side effect.
putting biological feasibility aside for the sake of the argument.

what certainty can you have such a cure is indeed imposible, if its invention would contradict the economic interest of those who have the ability to do.
thats a quite bothersome thought in my book.

[Toshi]

pharma is only a small part of biological sciences research as a whole field. if there's a plausible pathway through which a cure for _insert disease X here_ might be found, then i guarantee that there are a half dozen labs (writing grants for :D) and working on it.*

* as long as the disease isn't limited to 3000 goat herders who live in isolation in tanzania, etc.

[Westy]

the reason why I no longer take medicine...there's something sinister going on...where'e my aluminum foil???...D

The food and water industry had been doing the same thing to us for years and no one seems to notice.

[golgiaparatus]

Interesting, but it makes sense. The virus destroys immune cells and can't be killed. Engineering it to turn on itself....awesome.

I think its pretty cool too. Building new bugs to fight original bugs. I wonder if it ever actually completely kills off the original virus, or if there is just a battle going on inside the body until death.

[BMXman]

The food and water industry had been doing the same thing to us for years and no one seems to notice.


I need more details...D

[BMXman]

D, Alexis, please provide examples.

modern medicine is actually very straightforward about its aims, even if some (many) vestigal practices unsupported by evidence have yet to be weeded out. the real charlatans who sell snake-oil-in-perpetuity are practioners of "straight" chiropractic...


I just chose to not take medicine.... I prefer to leave it up to my body to heal itself. I've read that a lot of people develop weak immune systems because their body has "learned" to rely upon assistance from medicines...D

[Toshi]

I need more details...D
uh, he means that food and water are products that you must continue to buy over and over...

[Toshi]

I just chose to not take medicine.... I prefer to leave it up to my body to heal itself. I've read that a lot of people develop weak immune systems because their body has "learned" to rely upon assistance from medicines...D
where did you read this? what evidence was this based on?

while overuse of antibiotics does have bad effects, such as creating drug resistant strains of nasty bugs, antibiotics generally work in concert with the body's immune system, not instead of it. because of this i don't really see what could be behind this idea.

[Westy]

I've been drugging myself silly lately trying to weaken the immune system response that causes my psoriasis. I've found week long binges doesn't help the condidtion but I usually don't remember I have it.;)