Any updates on the Baldy situation?

[Dog Welder]

Bueller? Anyone?

[Pat...]

I won't have to ride a hardtail at Baldy anymore. I got a full suspension now!

[Ozzer]

Wes is getting faster than TJ -that's an update.

[Pat...]

Wow. I'm surprised.

[mastercycleman]

Bueller??
Bueller?
Bueller?

[Pat...]

You haven't seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off?

[Ciaran]

Conrad? Yoooo Hoooooooo!!!!!!!

[lovebunny]

Wes is getting faster than TJ -that's an update.

hhahaha. orvens such a funny guy

[Fonzie18]

hhahaha. orvens such a funny guy

I dunno man, I've been riding with Wes and notice a steady improvement in his riding. But at the same time I see a steady increase in his bitching...

[Bicyclist]

You haven't seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off?

He was repeating the line from the movie.

[Pat...]

Oh. I have no idea what I was doing with that post.

edit: I remembered that I thought mastercycleman was asking who bueller was. Then I reffered to the movie although I wasn't sure if the Dog Welder was refering to the movie or another person.

[mastercycleman]

Oh. I have no idea what I was doing with that post.

edit: I remembered that I thought mastercycleman was asking who bueller was. Then I reffered to the movie although I wasn't sure if the Dog Welder was refering to the movie or another person.

:imstupid:

[al7barfly]

This season has obviously come and gone. Mammoth has already seen 4 inches of snow. Will all of the necessary reports, red tape and BS be finished in time for next season?

[cheetaprowlerDH]

But at the same time I see a steady increase in his bitching...

he cant get as bad as the guy i ride with, thats for sure:rolleyes:

[Ciaran]

Does anyone know if Conrad is still alive? Lovebunny?

[Pat...]

Last I heard, was he went to Mammoth. Maybe he realized how good it was w/o any additional work and stayed....

[ncrider]

No I go to Kauai next month rippha oz.

Ok, ok. I'm alive and so is the Baldy project. We've had some massive ups and downs over the past few months. Our BA/BE reports vol.2 are being reviewed. Yes. We had to submit two BA/BE reports. Thats a whole lot of $$$$$ Unofficial I have good news, but official I have nothing to report. Barring the need for a third BA/BE report I expect to have a complete review and conclusion from the USFS in a few weeks.

C

[W4S]

Is Baldy ever going to open? Flew over it yesterday and not a single speck of snow anywhere but their website says they're open for skiing and boarding!?

Does that guys that was working on it ever visit Ridemonkey or did he disappear just like his 'vision.'?

DH in SoCal sucks ass, meanwhile companies like Intense & Turner produce Dh frames yet do nothing to help their own cause. seems like a solid business practice, imo. :sarcasm: :clapping:

[Ciaran]

Is Baldy ever going to open? Flew over it yesterday and not a single speck of snow anywhere but their website says they're open for skiing and boarding!?

Does that guys that was working on it ever visit Ridemonkey or did he disappear just like his 'vision.'?

DH in SoCal sucks ass, meanwhile companies like Intense & Turner produce Dh frames yet do nothing to help their own cause. seems like a solid business practice, imo. :sarcasm: :clapping:

Read the post above yours.

Also run a search and READ the older threads. You'll see that Baldy management has decided to take a larger role in the bike park, and that they have hired NCRider as their main man. AMBP and myself are no longer involved in the project. (AMBP is now disolved).

I agree that on the surface it seems that local companies are doing nothing but with many that is not the case. (Sadly with some it is correct) Before leaving the project I was contacted by many local companies who were willing to donate either money, personel, or physical space (for meetings and such). Just because it's not broadcast does not mean that it's not happening.

Like you however I am very dissapointed in the amount of time this is taking. BUT (and this is a big BUT) this is NOT Baldy or NCRiders fault. This is the fault of our USFS. Unless they are willing to lose their resort, there is nothing Baldy or anyone else can do to hurry up the USFS.

In the mean time if you are really interisted in a place to dig and shuttle contact me privately and I'll shoot you some info about a private project I have going on.

[W4S]

Read the post above yours.

Also run a search and READ the older threads. You'll see that Baldy management has decided to take a larger role in the bike park, and that they have hired NCRider as their main man. AMBP and myself are no longer involved in the project. (AMBP is now disolved).

I agree that on the surface it seems that local companies are doing nothing but with many that is not the case. (Sadly with some it is correct) Before leaving the project I was contacted by many local companies who were willing to donate either money, personel, or physical space (for meetings and such). Just because it's not broadcast does not mean that it's not happening.

Like you however I am very dissapointed in the amount of time this is taking. BUT (and this is a big BUT) this is NOT Baldy or NCRiders fault. This is the fault of our USFS. Unless they are willing to lose their resort, there is nothing Baldy or anyone else can do to hurry up the USFS.

In the mean time if you are really interisted in a place to dig and shuttle contact me privately and I'll shoot you some info about a private project I have going on.


Why go thru all the trouble of reading old posts when I can post something imflammatory and have the info I was looking for spoon fed to me. :monkeydance:

I am interested in where your digging tho, I think I know where it is and I've already been digging out there.

[skatetokil]

****ing usfs. they make me so mad.

and the nps is even worse.

[mastercycleman]

and ups is even worse....

[ncrider]

Sorry guys, I don't really hang out on RM like I used to. Seems like all my peeps are gone.

update...we are now on BA/BE report vol. 3 (see above update). Completely rediculous at this point. Whats the deal you ask? Well, the usfs is fearful of lawsuits which may come down on them by the super crazy tree hugger groups stationed near Baldy. Why? Well, there are about 175 big horn sheep that may or may not make a summer voyage near the ski area from year to year. Some fear an increase in summer activity at the resort could make the sheep go somewhere else in their 10,000 square miles of protected wilderness. Others say the sheep have become more and more friendly every year and aren't scaried of people anymore. Result...we may be looking at 1-2 more summers of researchers hiking around to ask the sheep, "Excuse us Mr. Sheep, but would you mind if we ride our bikes through here?"

Frustration is monting at the Baldy camp. I'd like to say the USFS bashing isn't cool. There are some great people within the forest service that have gone out of there way to help our cause. However, in all beuracracies there lies the potential for one or two individuals to kill progress. Thats the story here.

For those that think nothings being done thats cool. I've been pluging away at this for over two years now and understand your frustration more than you know. But, I keep moving forward still and won't take no for an answer.

[bdamschen]

Don't places like the anza-borrego state park have tons of people going through bighorn sheep habitat each year?

I'm sure you guys have already considered this but are there studies done with other groups of sheep and how they interacted with humans?

I'd also be interested in ways I can help out be it digging or otherwise, since it looks like I'll be moving down to southern california next summer.

[Duzitall]

Don't places like the anza-borrego state park have tons of people going through bighorn sheep habitat each year?

Nope, they have closed millions of acres desert so us people won't disturb them. :disgust1: It's all about lawyers these days :plthumbsdown:

[Ciaran]

Nope, they have closed millions of acres desert so us people won't disturb them. :disgust1: It's all about lawyers these days :plthumbsdown:
Yup. Moron lawyers and asshole Sierra clubbers. Seriously, what good is the damn sheep anyway? Who cares if it's extint. It's not like it's food .

[spookydave]

Yup. Moron lawyers and asshole Sierra clubbers. Seriously, what good is the damn sheep anyway? Who cares if it's extint. It's not like it's food .


and this has to be the dumbest post I've read today.

just so you know, I care. And I'm far from a tree hugger.

ncrider, Keep up the good fight!

[al7barfly]

As a businessman, I can tell you one thing for sure. NOTHING gets done in the USA unless it makes sense $$$$ wise. If the owners and operators of the Mt Baldy resort truely feel that this bike park will make them some money, they will get this USFS crap taken care of (one way or antoher) .

Look at the Snow Summit situation. Do you think skiers and snowboarders NEVER cut new trails or ride out of bounds. (Destroying habitats and disrupting the natural environment) And do you believe that, between the two resorts, they never get sued for skiing/boarding accidents? Especially with the ridiculous jumps and terrain features that they build each year. Of course they do. The thing is, snow season brings in $$$$, DH mountain biking doesn't. Simple as that. The USFS is almost powerless against one industry, and almost invincible against the other. It's all about $$$$ and as sad as it is to say, there's nothing any of us can do about it except whine and bitch. DH biking is never going to be a mainstream sport like skiing and snowboarding. Like it or not, most people think of it as too extreme and NOT family oriented.

This red tape has NOTHING to do with sheep or habitat. It's about sombody holding out for enough cash. If 1000 sheep parked their herd in the middle Mt Baldy today, they'd be removed within an hour, by any means necessary, and the lifts would be operating to full capacity, and neither the USFS or Baldy would say a word about it. If and when the amount is right, something will happen. Until then, get used to disappointing excuses.

[Zark]

you seriously don't know what you are talking about. Baldy WANTS bikes, the winter business sucks for a resort that doesn't blow snow. It really is the beauracracy holding things up in this case.

[skatetokil]

The rediculous part is that the mountain already runs the lifts during the summer and is crawling with hikers.

Something smells fishy here, and I think we will find its the granola munching bipods who are at the root of our troubles, not sheep.

[Slugman]

The rediculous part is that the mountain already runs the lifts during the summer and is crawling with hikers.

Something smells fishy here, and I think we will find its the granola munching bipods who are at the root of our troubles, not sheep.

Then maybe we should try and get it shut down for hikers...

[spookydave]

And let's keep this thread about Baldy. Not about anyones personal issues. (And I'll delete this post in a few days)

:stupid: lol :D

[ncrider]

As a businessman, I can tell you one thing for sure. NOTHING gets done in the USA unless it makes sense $$$$ wise. If the owners and operators of the Mt Baldy resort truely feel that this bike park will make them some money, they will get this USFS crap taken care of (one way or antoher) .

Look at the Snow Summit situation. Do you think skiers and snowboarders NEVER cut new trails or ride out of bounds. (Destroying habitats and disrupting the natural environment) And do you believe that, between the two resorts, they never get sued for skiing/boarding accidents? Especially with the ridiculous jumps and terrain features that they build each year. Of course they do. The thing is, snow season brings in $$$$, DH mountain biking doesn't. Simple as that. The USFS is almost powerless against one industry, and almost invincible against the other. It's all about $$$$ and as sad as it is to say, there's nothing any of us can do about it except whine and bitch. DH biking is never going to be a mainstream sport like skiing and snowboarding. Like it or not, most people think of it as too extreme and NOT family oriented.

This red tape has NOTHING to do with sheep or habitat. It's about sombody holding out for enough cash. If 1000 sheep parked their herd in the middle Mt Baldy today, they'd be removed within an hour, by any means necessary, and the lifts would be operating to full capacity, and neither the USFS or Baldy would say a word about it. If and when the amount is right, something will happen. Until then, get used to disappointing excuses.

Damn, where to begin. I actually wrote this huge rant in response, but deleted it. The cliff notes go something like this.

I can tell your not happy with the way things are going. Me too. However, you have no clue what is really invovled in this. Money can't solve all here (sorry it's not like the movies). Take some time and educate yourself. Please ask questions. I'll repsond, but don't make unjustified statements.

Thanks,
C

[W4S]

Thanks for the update Conrad, it's good to know you're still working hard on this project. You said that in this 3rd volume of reports they bring up this sheep migration thingy, has this been an issue from the beginning or is this a new issue? you said that 2 - 3 people within USFS are the main holdouts on the bike park. What exactly are their concerns, are they legitimate, etc..?

I don't know much about Baldy, are there a lot of hikers in summer that wouldn't be able to get their hike on if there were a bike park?

[ncrider]

Thanks for the update Conrad, it's good to know you're still working hard on this project. You said that in this 3rd volume of reports they bring up this sheep migration thingy, has this been an issue from the beginning or is this a new issue? you said that 2 - 3 people within USFS are the main holdouts on the bike park. What exactly are their concerns, are they legitimate, etc..?

I don't know much about Baldy, are there a lot of hikers in summer that wouldn't be able to get their hike on if there were a bike park?

Yeah the sheep and a few less pressuring issues are the reason for the volume of BA/BE reports. The problem is that different biologist have different views on these sheep. They are protected and listed as a fragle species on the brink. So that alone is a problem. The other issue is that there doesn't seem to be any lenghty solid studies conducted on there behavior towards people. So at this point we only can pull data that is anecdotal at best.

When decisions, such as new activity permits are given out by the USFS, there is a sole individual that has governing authority. He's a great guy by the way. However, this person has many advisors on the issue. Some are for us and others very anti. There lies the rub.

The concerns are that increased summer activity could push the big horn sheep further into danger. Also, the rampant illegal activity over the years has left a sour taste in the mouths of many advisors.

The big picture is that the area crawls with more and more hikers every summer. These hikers don't just stick to the trails. It's a free for all. The forest service thinks we'll act the same way and ride all over the place. Trust me, they have numerous, charts, illustrations and diagrams which I've writen detailing exactly how the bike park will be created, maintained, and patroled. There is no grey area, it's black and white. Unfortunately, a history filled with uncontroled use makes it hard for me to persuade to our future being any different (Big Bear's history is a black spot on our sport as well).

Really, having the bike park will place control on the resort area and likely mitigate out of bounds activity to the point of increasing the surrounding envirnmental status. Thats the point our biologist is working to prove.

Good questions. Thanks,
C

[bdamschen]

Yeah the sheep and a few less pressuring issues are the reason for the volume of BA/BE reports. The problem is that different biologist have different views on these sheep. They are protected and listed as a fragle species on the brink. So that alone is a problem. The other issue is that there doesn't seem to be any lenghty solid studies conducted on there behavior towards people. So at this point we only can pull data that is anecdotal at best.

Not sure if this will help or not, but these sheep seem to be alright around people out at the Anza-Borrego State Park. Here's a pic on a fairly well used hiking trail. Then again, they're also not pushing 30 mph with a clattering derailure and a cloud of dust behind them.

http://www.thegc.org/damschen/test/borrego/peopleandsheep.jpg

[W4S]

Do other bike parks have the same illegal trail building issues Big Bear had? I don't think Big Bear would have had the same issues now but I bet most of the 'illegal' trail building started up as soon as the mountain opened to riding, or maybe even before, and there were no issues back then, and the fact that their on-mountain trails sucked balls... I'd been going to BB for 5 years and only the last year was it mentioned that those trails were illegal, and the place had been going for 7-8 years before I started going there.

That big horn sheep argument sounds weird, how much of a disturbance do they think we are? I'm riding a bicycle, it doesn't have an engine. It especially doesn't make sense if there's a significant hiker population already using that area.

Oh well, thanks for keeping up the fight, hopefully this will turn around for you soon. Keep us updated! :monkeydance:

[roberts]

It never ceases to amaze me that we will literally excavate whole mountains to build houses and rodes, but if a bicycle tire touches forest or park soil, all of a sudden every species on earth is threatened.

I'd bet that in a year every downhiller in So Cal does not do as much environmental damage as 1 car or the building of 1 house. ANd we do not even get close to the building of a rode.

It is a joke. If I remember correctly, a study was done that showed hiking boots do more damage than bike tires.

Unreal!

[skatetokil]

agreed. but everywhere is getting insane these days. every level of our legal and regulatory system has been captured by agenda pushing special interest pricks. The real public servants, and there are still some of them, are being driven out because they are drowning in a sea of these people and cant get any real reform through the bureaucracies. Cali just started the process of gutting its civil service corps earlier and harder. make no mistake, this kind of bs is coming soon to a theater near you. it's alread in full effect here (DC).

[hecktone]

you seriously don't know what you are talking about. Baldy WANTS bikes, the winter business sucks for a resort that doesn't blow snow. It really is the beauracracy holding things up in this case.

I've got the ok to dig and create a second DH course, a 4x course, a dirt jump course, and even a 3rd DH route at Chamberlin Ranch. The only hurdle is, as al7barfly stated it is about $$$$ and participation or volunteers.

The Ranch Owners want to do anything that will supplement the cattle and farming operation. In early 2006 they let an LLC open and operate the Zaca Station Motocross Track. What does Chamberlin Ranch get out of this? Try $65,000 in less than a year, via $500 membership cost and $25 per ride session, and visitor fees of $50 per rider. Mountain bikers would not even pay a third of those numbers, or would they? The Ranch Owners have said that if I could get him $30,000 annually, he'd let me, and only me operate a club, much like a gun club, that could ride on thier property 2 weekends a month, or roughly 48 days a year.

If the Chamberlin Ranch Mountain Bike Club were to form, and riders, in return for say a $300 annual membership fee and a jersey, no per ride fee, 12 club trail work hours annualy, could ride there 2 weekends a month, could it fly? Of course there would be other perks too, like camping, clinics, and discounts, things like that. Keep in mind we already have an OK DH course and a 10 miles of XC trail and 10 miles of fireroad.

To this end, and to help the 3 events I already organize and promote there, we've been allowed to build a new 4 acre grassy venue that will now serve as and expo and start finish area for those events. I gthink because it is private, we can do without the EIR bs, for a while.

Your opinions please. Try not to be too harsh, as I'm very sensitive. :banghead:

Mike Hecker - Owner & Event Director
Chamberlin Ranch AMBC DH
Firestone SYV Classic AMBC CA State XC
24 Hours of Chamberlin Ranch

[hecktone]

Well, remember, the goal is to pay the rancher $30,000 ... not that much when you consider:

The ranches exposure to legal issues.
Insurance.
The size of the property that we'd be using.
It's 4 days a month, not 12 rides, 48 days worth of riding.

Are you going to join us today? If so, DO NOT ENTER OFF FOXEN CANYON, go in off ZACA STATION, look for the tires that I'm putting out as guides to the new parking area.

Also, Patrick, please burn me that photo disk from the 24 hour race.

Happy New Year!

Mike

[hecktone]

oh yeah, I forgot.

We can design and build all the routes and there are no peszky hikers to complain or avoid. That alone is worth the price!

I already have a route in mind for the second DH run.

mh :banana:

[merrrrjig]

Anyone down to go ride baldy in the snow? on bikes, and if it sucks enough we could go snowboard too

[W4S]

I think you'll find that unlike moto guys, DHers are lazy and poor.

I disagree. Look at how many people show up for a weekend of racing Fontana, and that's probably a $100 weekend per person.

Hecktone, I think you could make it happen if you had multiple quality trails and a reasonable shuttle system. I don't want to have to pay that much and have to hike to the top, and I certainly won't pay that much to ride the same crappy 3 trails. But, I'd most definitely pay for quality and convenience, and I think most people would say the same. also, if this succeeds it will breed other opportunities.

Put this in a new thread, please. This sounds pretty exciting.

[Pat...]

the thread: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2403736&posted=1#post2403736

[merrrrjig]

Kinda off topic, kinda not, why doesnt snow valley have mountain biking?

[Fonzie18]

Anyone down to go ride baldy in the snow? on bikes, and if it sucks enough we could go snowboard too

You are a snow-aholic.

Better than being an innernet-aholic though.

[merrrrjig]

I was wondering since I went to snow valley (ha ha i know) and they had a poster that said 2002 or so snow valley cup, w/ a biker on it

[Fonzie18]

I was wondering since I went to snow valley (ha ha i know) and they had a poster that said 2002 or so snow valley cup, w/ a biker on it

Snow Valley is across the highway from where they hold the Rim Nordic MTB races.

[Zark]

So.......... any updates? ;)

[Ciaran]

So.......... any updates? ;)

I hear the skidder trails are open. ;)

[ncrider]

nope.

[al7barfly]

It's definetly riding season. Is there any chance that the powers that be will move forward with this project? Is the issue still on the table? Anyone have some updated info?

[Pat...]

How about now?

[Sharky]

My friends work the lifts and just told me not to believe it if you hear it's gonna happen!! Money issues for one??(this is what they tell me) The lift is running on the weekends for $15 you can take your bike up but it's just the fireroad down to the lot very loose with lots of shale. Too bad, I live in the Foothills below if they'd get it together they'd get some great summer business from most of us? If you're still working on this keep up the good work I'd LOVE to see this happen and hopefully all the issues can be managed. Let us know if any of us locals can help. Hell we'll bring out our own shovels if that's what it takes??

[ncrider]

We have a USFS paid biologist that will be lurking around in the trees talking to the big horn sheep to find out how they feel about an incresease in summer resort use.

It's not really a money issue at all. I've secured financial backing for the construction of the park.

It comes done to politics really. Anybody know a few powerful L.A. politicians?

[skatetokil]

I like sheep as much as the next guy, but this is why i hate environazis. in their own way they are more conservative than the conservatives, and they quite openly place the happiness of creepy crawly critters higher on their list of priorities than humans. A hugely important project for the LA riding scene is stalled because it might maybe possibly bother these animals.

[Pat...]

Do you need politicians at the city and/or state level?

[BMXman]

hmm.. I thought this wouldn't get off the ground until after I moved but I thought it would be going strong by now...D

[Pat...]

Any feedback at all?

[kev211]

hhahaha. orvens such a funny guy

I thought it was funny! :busted: But seriously, I can almost beat u! :imstupid: