Passing/being passed with DH racing

[VT Mtbkr]

So it's my first year racing and I'm a little unsure about what the correct etiquette is with passing in a DH race. Can someone please fill me in with what is expected?

[dhchix]

VT,
I heard about your situation in the second half of the course. I know the section you were riding was very technical and rocky but there were some places for her to pull over and let you by. From what I was told she wouldn't give you chance to pass. I think the way she handled the situation was uncalled for. You caught her with a min interval between each racer. When you are yelling rider back or coming around your left or right she should have picked a place to pull over and let you by. It is not like she would have lost that much time by giving you the space to pass. I would have been pissed. I mentioned it to some of the guys and they said they would have made contact with her bike. I don't like being rude to someone but move the "F" over. :banghead:

[VT Mtbkr]

I didn't really want to discuss this specific incidence because it is over and done with and it really didn't effect me as far as my placement but since you opened it up.

I'm not one to be rude or pushy and to her defense I only yelled rider back once thinking that she'd give me room when the trail allowed. I even took some terrible lines (ie longer) trying to get past her near the bottom. Well that never happened, so that's why I'm asking. Should I expect someone obviously slower them me to stop or give me room? Or should I be expected to be able to pass someone cleanly without them giving up any room in the better line? Am I expected to be pushy and rude if someone doesn't concede the trail to a faster rider?

[weimie]

My opinion, if you're being passed in a race then you should let the person pass you. They've caught you and beat you and you should let them by.

If someone didn't let you pass in a race, that's just wrong. And I also know a lot of guys that would have gotten physical if they weren't allowed to pass in a race.

[weimie]

Should I expect someone obviously slower them me to stop or give me room? Or should I be expected to be able to pass someone cleanly without them giving up any room in the better line? Am I expected to be pushy and rude if someone doesn't concede the trail to a faster rider?


Yes and No and Yes. If someone is clearly not letting me pass when I've caught them, I wouldn't care about a clean pass unless it's in a seriously dangerous section and they could get hurt. And that person would also get some choice words during AND after the race :rant:

[mohshee]

I had a similar incident racing at Deer Valley earlier this year. I passed three sport riders in front of me and I came up on the girl that went off first and she wouldn't let me pass. She wasn't even in my class either (she was a junior girl, and she was the only one in her class -- but she was also like 16 or something, so it wasn't like she was a scared little girl -- and she had been bragging at the start about all her experience). I was trying to be tackful at first, because I didn't have any experience with passing before on a DH run. --But she was painfully slow and even had to get off her bike at one point to scramble down something. I kept telling her, "rider back...let me pass". I thought she didn't hear me at first. But after yelling several times, I finally got a clear spot beside her and passed. It definitely did effect my placing. I missed 1st place by something like 20 seconds.

It's really retarded when people are deliberately rude. I'd definitely be fearful of tapping/knudging someone with my bike, but I'm not sure what other alternative there is under such circumstances. --As long as you aren't endangering yourself or the other rider.

[debo]

Its also my first year downhilling. By my third race if I was beating ladies in intro and amateur and some elite riders by 1-2 min Id move up a class. Judging from the time in your last 3 races you probably should have asked to go first then you wouldn't have to worry about passing true beginners. We call that sandbagging for those of you who don't understand.

If you wanted to pass so bad then why didn't you? Rather than trying to pass right before the final rock garden in a 90 degree turn why didn't you pass in the safe zone??? You had every oppurtunity in the last 3 sections......it wasn't like my arms and legs were sticking out so you couldn't. This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

As far as physical contact goes...for those of you girls who like to fight and for those guys who like to hit girls....I call that unsportsmanlike and immature.

So buck up and quit youre whining. You won, didn't you? Get over it!

Karma's a bitch.

[weimie]

um, no offense but if you can't talk nice then go away.

I've never encountered a pissing match before in the Mud Hunnies so don't start one.

And by the way, most of the time if you're racing in a series you can't move up until the series is over or you'll loose all your series points. That's not sandbagging....

[VT Mtbkr]

I did not post this here to whine or complain, if that was my intention I wouldn't have worded the post in the way I did. I only posted to understand trail etiquette when it comes to passing or being passed.

If Snowshoe hadn't have been a series and I wasn't already planning on racing the entire series then you better believe I would have moved up. I even e-mailed Trevyn to ask what I should do and whether my points would transfer.

I bought my bike in April and Snowshoe was my first race ever, in which I raced Intro (as I should have being my first race). There was one other women in my class who is a wonderful lady but is quite a bit older so it's not like I could resonably compared my time with her's to see if I was in the right class or not. There were 2 women in ameteur class and I beat one of their times and was 1+ minute behind the other woman. I was nowhere near the elite times for that race. So what would you have done? I decided to keep my points and commit to finishing the season in Intro. I asked many of my friends advice on this and they agreed that yes it turned out I was good but I was in the correct class knowing what I knew.

With the results from the second race, I now know that I am a solid ametuer racer. Yes I could have chosen to race ametuer for the third race and maybe I should have but I choose to finish the series in my class.

So if you call that sandbagging then so be it. I call it the ups and downs of learning how you stand in a new sport. I also raced at Wisp this year and lost to a woman who was racing her first race in Intro, I probably would have lost to her again at Snowshoe had she not wrecked in her race run. I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way but I have never spoken to you nor did you know my situation and the debate I went through on where I should race.

[Tmeyer]

Rider being passed always yields, I caught three people ahead of me in my qualifying run at the US open and all pulled off after one warning. They even apologized after for getting in the way which was hardly neccesary. I don't know rules for other races but Sean said at the riders meeting of the open MOVE OVER OR STOP if a rider is coming up on you. A totally legitimate rule IMO. My $.02.

[debo]

All I'm saying is that you could've asked to go first. YOu knew you were faster than all of us judging by previous race results. Thats all. I did not try try to hinder you while I was racing and it just sounds like you were making it sound like I just wouldn't let you pass. I am a beginner and if I had gotten off my bike in te area the you wanted to pss in I would have lost momentum to get thru the last part of that gnarly rock garden. I never heard you once shout let me pass after that. I wasn't even sure how close you were behind me uuntil the end. No offense taken.

[weimie]

Since when can you ask to go first in a race? They actually let you do that at your races? If that's the case I would have asked to go last....no worries there :happydance:

[amydalayna]

Judging from the time in your last 3 races you probably should have asked to go first then you wouldn't have to worry about passing true beginners.

debo - your response was totally rude.
i'm not sure what you're talking about with asking to go first. the races i have been in have set start times. you don't get to ask to go ahead of someone because you think you might be faster.

This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

if someone has caught you, then you've already lost.... you should move over.

if i catch up with someone in my class, then i expect them to do their best to move over. but i hate when i catch up with someone and and they totally stop... i don't wanna kill someone else's flow.

[amydalayna]

Since when can you ask to go first in a race?

none that i've ever been in.

sometimes i ask if they can throw in a ghost rider behind me if there is a guy's class behind me... and they always say no.

[weimie]

none that i've ever been in.

sometimes i ask if they can throw in a ghost rider behind me if there is a guy's class behind me... and they always say no.

Yeah...especially if it's the Expert or Jr Expert Men. The race series I did there was a big gap between classes like 2 - 3 minutes and there's a course guy that rides in between all the classes and makes sure everything is clear.

[debo]

This wasn't the US Open nor the World Cup. Chill out Boulder girl. YOu weren't here and its alot more layed back. :banana:

[VT Mtbkr]

debo,
I knew that section was technical, that's why I didn't yell and get pushy. I would have liked to have passed you before the final rock garden but I know what you mean by keeping up your momentum through there. In retrospect I probably should have asked to pass after the last rock garden but I figured you would give me room somewhere knowing that I was back there. You were pretty quick after the last rock garden so there was no way I was going to get by you after that when you where in the best line.
But that's why I asked the questions on here, I'm just as new at this as you are so I didn't know what to expect. I had no idea you could ask to go first. No offense. Congrats on second and good luck next season.

BTW, that really young girl racing is going to kick both our buts if she keeps it up.

[dante]

if someone has caught you, then you've already lost.... you should move over.

yup, totally true. and if the person doesn't move over, you have grounds to ask for a re-run. it happens relatively often, whether someone doesn't move over or whether some freeriders duck under the tape and don't pay attention to racers coming up fast. If you're a minute (or even 30sec) behind the time of someone behind you, you've lost. You should pull over immediately, or at least wherever it's safe to do so. VT, sorry you had an "issue", but if it happens again definitely talk to the race organizer.

[weimie]

This wasn't the US Open nor the World Cup. Chill out Boulder girl. YOu weren't here and its alot more layed back. :banana:


wow...you do have a lot to learn.

[debo]

This wasn't the USopen nor the World Cup ladies. Chill out Boulder girl. Have fun bitching back and forth.....

[amydalayna]

This wasn't the US Open nor the World Cup. Chill out Boulder girl. YOu weren't here and its alot more layed back. :banana:

alot of people race to see how fast they can really go when pushed. whether it be the worlds or a local series.
just because a race isn't the world's doesn't mean it is any less important to the people racing it.

[amydalayna]

Yeah...especially if it's the Expert or Jr Expert Men. The race series I did there was a big gap between classes like 2 - 3 minutes and there's a course guy that rides in between all the classes and makes sure everything is clear.

once they threw in a men's open hardtail class behind my class. those guys were super fast and caught up to most of the girls out there.

[VT Mtbkr]

alot of people race to see how fast they can really go when pushed. whether it be the worlds or a local series.
just because a race isn't the world's doesn't mean it is any less important to the people racing it.

Guilty as charged....I was hoping to beat my BF's time. :brows:

[weimie]

once they threw in a men's open hardtail class behind my class. those guys were super fast and caught up to most of the girls out there.

I can imagine...those guys are really fast and skilled on their hardtails.

[weimie]

Guilty as charged....I was hoping to beat my BF's time. :brows:


Did you?

[amydalayna]

Guilty as charged....I was hoping to beat my BF's time. :brows:

and did you????

my race season is pretty much done out here so i hope to live vicariously through everyone else still racing.

[debo]

Yea no ****, Anne. She was really good and it was literally her 3rd day on a dh bike. Glad you and I got to deliberate abot this....it was bothering me the whole time. See you next race!

[VT Mtbkr]

Nope, he beat me by 18 seconds. He tends to like to wreck on his race runs which gives me a huge advantage.

[weimie]

18 seconds....you'll get him next time :biggrin:

My bf beats me by like 2 minutes. When we ride DH I usually don't see him until he stops and waits for me.

[amydalayna]

18 seconds....you'll get him next time :biggrin:

My bf beats me by like 2 minutes. When we ride DH I usually don't see him until he stops and waits for me.

I'm in the same boat as you.... My husband beats me by lots.
but SOMETIMES i beat him at the BMX track. SOMETIMES.

[VT Mtbkr]

Well I do have an advantage on him that I've been XC biking for 6 years and he's been biking since March. He's just got male testosterone/stupidity and ATV experiance on his side and I've got technical skills on mine. I'm gaining on him everytime we ride and he's getting more and more nervous about how good I'm getting.

[weimie]

I'm in the same boat as you.... My husband beats me by lots.
but SOMETIMES i beat him at the BMX track. SOMETIMES.

Yeah....he beats me there also. I don't mind it though, he gives me something to chase :biggrin: And sometimes he waits after really tough sections just to see me ride it and cheer, it's so cute.

[weimie]

I'm gaining on him everytime we ride and he's getting more and more nervous about how good I'm getting.


That's so awesome! Next thing you know you'll be showing him how to get through the tough sections.

[dhchix]

18 seconds....you'll get him next time :biggrin:

My bf beats me by like 2 minutes. When we ride DH I usually don't see him until he stops and waits for me.

Yeah, me too. It sucks but it keeps me pushing harder to close that gap.

[Biscuit]

IMO:
If you got caught, you arent going to podium so get the hell out of the way. Odd's are the person who caught you is close to podium/winning so don't mess it up for them.

At a N* race once, I wrecked early in the run and later could hear the rider behind me coming up. He was obvously catching me and I was about to go into a long technical section that would have no room for passing.

I swallowed my pride and pulled off, let him catch me, and pass. (probably 5 seconds that seemed like an eternity).

He ended up winning by 0.1 seconds. Afterwards he approached me and expressed his gratitude. If I had been greedy at all, he would not have won.

[sanjuro]

Its also my first year downhilling. By my third race if I was beating ladies in intro and amateur and some elite riders by 1-2 min Id move up a class. Judging from the time in your last 3 races you probably should have asked to go first then you wouldn't have to worry about passing true beginners. We call that sandbagging for those of you who don't understand.

If you wanted to pass so bad then why didn't you? Rather than trying to pass right before the final rock garden in a 90 degree turn why didn't you pass in the safe zone??? You had every oppurtunity in the last 3 sections......it wasn't like my arms and legs were sticking out so you couldn't. This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

As far as physical contact goes...for those of you girls who like to fight and for those guys who like to hit girls....I call that unsportsmanlike and immature.

So buck up and quit youre whining. You won, didn't you? Get over it!

Karma's a bitch.
I admire your debating style. You take both sides of the argument and make yourself into the heroine either way!

You complain that she was sandbagging, implying she deserves no special consideration from her competitors, but you talk about your own precious time as if it matters when your minute man is about to pass you.

You also complained about starting times. Racers do not request starting times from officials and typically the fastest rider is seeded last, forcing him/him to pass anyone ahead.

And your comment about "this is a race" really falls apart. I race criteriums, which is the nasty, most competitive race possible. One crit I took an aggressive line, cutting off a rider, and his teammate responded by trying to put me into a curb. I didn't like it (and I stood this guy up when he leaned on me), but I did not complain about the aggressive riding either. If you don't want riders to pass you, the only clean way to do is to ride faster. If you want to block, expect complaints and worse.

Finally, you are entitled to your opinion that you took your line and anyone passing should have done so. It is a common complaint by all racers. However the question about passing/being passed was asked in a polite manner, and now you turned it into something else. Congrats on making yourself look bad.

[weimie]

I swallowed my pride and pulled off, let him catch me, and pass. (probably 5 seconds that seemed like an eternity).

He ended up winning by 0.1 seconds. Afterwards he approached me and expressed his gratitude. If I had been greedy at all, he would not have won.


That's a great example of how good sportsmanship pays off. :cheers:

[Biscuit]

... This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

As far as physical contact goes...for those of you girls who like to fight and for those guys who like to hit girls....I call that unsportsmanlike and immature.

So buck up and quit youre whining. You won, didn't you? Get over it!

Karma's a bitch.
I don't understand this twist. Perhaps I'm missing some background, but sandbagging is a lot different than passing. There is usually a huge overlap in ability levels and people get passed. Sandbagging is when someone intentionally registers in a lower class just for the opportunity to excell. They aren't pushing themselves and don't know what they are missing.

BUT...
As for your comment above about not letting people pass, that is right up there with sandbagging only it's more direct. Your ruining somone elses run for purely selfish reasons.

When I come up on a rider I make myself known as soon as possible, as loud as possible. I keep my speed up to try and get the pass over with as quickly as possible.

If I find that a person is intentionally not letting me by (as in your case outlined above), I pass anyway and they may not like the result. "Karmas a bitch" so to speak.

[Biscuit]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not agressive, abrasive, overly competetive or anything like that. I won't force-pass a novice rider, I'm oftern overly polite (other than the volume) and wont force-pass someone young (who may not know better).

Before the race even starts I try to introduce myself to those around me and explain my passing theory. If they catch me, holler and I'll get the hell out of the way. I expect to be treated with the same respect.

[TreeSaw]

Wow! Quite the debate going on here! I hate to see a pissing match among women and hope that it's resolved at this point, if not then I will be sure to "stay tuned"

For what it's worth here's my $.02:
Anne - Try to be a lot louder next time you catch someone and even obnoxious if that's what it takes. If you catch a rider ahead of you, they should definitely yield to you as soon as they possibly can. Also, if a rider doesn't yield, for whatever reason, and you feel that your time was hurt, then by all means, go to the race organizer and request a re-run.

Debo - enough of the attacking replies...you have been warned and the next one will be oppressed! The initial question was about passing during a race -- NOT about sandbagging. This is obviously a heated issue for you two ladies and I'd like to think we can work it out without getting into an argument. Your first and 2nd posts were rude! Anne was asking a legitimate question and didn't say anything about your situation. I certainly wouldn't lump Anne into the "sandbagger" category. This was her very first DH race experience...she had no idea how she would do and I respect her for sticking with her choice and finishing the series. IMHO sandbaggers generally know that they are better than the other competitors and enter a lower category with the sole purpose of winning...I don't see that as the case here (especially for a first time DHer and racer).

Wow! I sign-off for a little while and the drama brews. I miss all the good debates ;)

[S.K.C.]

Yep - it's the responsibility of the rider who is down-range to get out of the way if they "hear the train coming".:biggrin:

At the beginning of the season during a UCI World Cup practice in Vigo I think, Steve Peat came up on some slower riders on the course. They didn't move over to give Steve safe passage and in doing so, forced him to ditch his line, blow through a corner and crash dislocating his ring-finger.

I always think of it as a matter of safety and not some kind of competitive trip or anything like that. Could Peaty have found a place to pass the other riders on the course? Probably. Would it have been safe for him or the other riders? Definitely not. Piling into the back of another rider, even at slow speed is going to get someone injured. Moving out of the way is the best way to avoid this.

If I can do 3 solid runs during practice w/o sketching out (I'm a guy so this number will vary with everyone and anyone) on the course then I know I will rip it on my race run. If I can't - if I have to come to almost a complete stop before dropping into a gnarly rock garden, or if it's raining and can't seem to get my cornering wired, then I'll always tell the guy behind me in the starting order to give a shout if he's going to overtake me and I'll clear out.

If I've got the course comitted to memory and know that 90% of the time I'll be able to bail to the left, then I'll tell him - "if you're coming up on me yell - and I will always clear to the left..."

It's just common courtesy and good sportsmanship.

If you really get off on hogging the course, making other people loose their line, cutting people off to take away their line, or just plain mowing someone down - do us all a favor and race Mountain Cross.:biggrin:

They like that over there.

I've seen it.

[dante]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way. :cheers:

[TreeSaw]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way. :cheers:

Definitely! If I were to race DH, I would do the same.

[MtnBikerChk]

Wow! Quite the debate going on here! I hate to see a pissing match among women and hope that it's resolved at this point, if not then I will be sure to "stay tuned"

For what it's worth here's my $.02:
Anne - Try to be a lot louder next time you catch someone and even obnoxious if that's what it takes. If you catch a rider ahead of you, they should definitely yield to you as soon as they possibly can. Also, if a rider doesn't yield, for whatever reason, and you feel that your time was hurt, then by all means, go to the race organizer and request a re-run.

Debo - enough of the attacking replies...you have been warned and the next one will be oppressed! The initial question was about passing during a race -- NOT about sandbagging. This is obviously a heated issue for you two ladies and I'd like to think we can work it out without getting into an argument. Your first and 2nd posts were rude! Anne was asking a legitimate question and didn't say anything about your situation. I certainly wouldn't lump Anne into the "sandbagger" category. This was her very first DH race experience...she had no idea how she would do and I respect her for sticking with her choice and finishing the series. IMHO sandbaggers generally know that they are better than the other competitors and enter a lower category with the sole purpose of winning...I don't see that as the case here (especially for a first time DHer and racer).

Wow! I sign-off for a little while and the drama brews. I miss all the good debates ;)

Nicely put.

That's why I defer to you in these cases. Because if it were up to me, she'd be GONE. :nopity:

VT couldn't have been more professional in asking her question and even trying NOT to refer to the specific event. Congrats Debo - now you've gotten MY attention!

[McGRP01]

oh yeah, btw one thing i do is while I'm waiting in the starting line, i'll turn to the guy behind me and let him know that if he catches me, start hollaring and I'll move over immediately. I'll try to say this loud enough so that the person in front of me hears. If he doesn't/ignores me, I'll turn to him and say with a laugh "I highly doubt I'll catch you, but if I do I'll let you know..". this is also expert class, so you've got people who are a little more experienced and have been racing for a bit, so they're more knowledgeable. As always, a little information goes a long way. :cheers:

Yep. This is the way I handle it as well. And, after a couple races, you generally know if the person behind you is a ripper and will be on your wheel or not. Same goes for the person starting ahead of you.

[VT Mtbkr]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. :cheers: I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!:banana:

[sanjuro]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. :cheers: I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!:banana:

You did the right thing, nice job on your first season.

I rather enjoyed the controversy though, so nice job on unintentionally starting a fight.

[TreeSaw]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure I speak up more if it happens again and not take for granted that the person is going to yield eventually.

The mudhunnies are a great group and I've gotten a lot a wonderful advice since I started downhilling. :cheers: I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!:banana:


I think this thread has spawned some EXCELLENT advice for riders and racers alike!

[weimie]

I had no intention of spoiling the good nature of this forum when I first posted this question that's why I have kept my comments in a professional form.

Thanks Everyone!:banana:

You didn't spoil it....someone else did.

And congrats on the series win!

[Dartman]

To possibly (this wasn't a norba event) answer VT Mtbkr's initial question...

Norba rule 3A5:
"A passing rider has the obligation to pass safely."

Responsibility is on the passing rider, so her decision to hang back and not push it in a technical section was the correct one.

[lovebunny]

well i generally give someone three shouts. if i yell three times and they still dont pull over when they can then they get the shoulder

[SK6]

To possibly (this wasn't a norba event) answer VT Mtbkr's initial question...

Norba rule 3A5:
"A passing rider has the obligation to pass safely."

Responsibility is on the passing rider, so her decision to hang back and not push it in a technical section was the correct one.

Whew....Thank GOD it wasn't NORBA!

Now, this does spawn another question, if it is NOT a NORBA sanctioned event, then what would the general rule of thumb be, or how would the guideline be judged? I'm guessing that safety is first and foremost. I would guess a re-run can, and should be allowed in this type of case. So long as the course marshals indicate that the situation had occurred, if at all possible.

[DH Diva]

Karma's a bitch.

Yes it is. You have a lot to learn. Spouting off like a moron will get you no where fast in this industry. Maybe next time you should think before you speak. If you have any intention of progressing as a racer, you just seriously clipped your own wings. Keep in mind, this board is full of potential sponsors, team managers, team mates, race officials, ect. And if you don't think they see this stuff, you're very wrong. I have been involved with this industry a long time and seen a lot of racer's stupidity lose them a lot of opportunities, and respect.

I seriously hope you learned something from this.

[Biscuit]

Whew....Thank GOD it wasn't NORBA!

Now, this does spawn another question, if it is NOT a NORBA sanctioned event, then what would the general rule of thumb be, or how would the guideline be judged? I'm guessing that safety is first and foremost. I would guess a re-run can, and should be allowed in this type of case. So long as the course marshals indicate that the situation had occurred, if at all possible.

Most non-NORBA events I've been to say "this is a non-NORBA event, but NORBA rules apply", or something to that affect.

And to clarify what I said earlier: I'm not condoning knocking people over. I've only had one issue with someone not letting me by and that was only a trail ride (I chewed the guy out and nothing more - he was being a dick).

My frustration on issues like this doesn't so much stem from cycling as it does from everyday life. I can't stand people who think it's okay to negatively effect someone else or that they are "entitled" to something. Attitudes like that propogate anger and make the world worse off.

Hugs not drugs...

[amydalayna]

Hugs not drugs...

i needed a giggle this morning.
thanks.

[DH Diva]

Hugs not drugs...

Did you steal that from Nancy Reagan? I just about spit Chai all over my keyboard when I read that ya bastid!

[Echo]

Yes it is. You have a lot to learn. Spouting off like a moron will get you no where fast in this industry. Maybe next time you should think before you speak. If you have any intention of progressing as a racer, you just seriously clipped your own wings. Keep in mind, this board is full of potential sponsors, team managers, team mates, race officials, ect. And if you don't think they see this stuff, you're very wrong. I have been involved with this industry a long time and seen a lot of racer's stupidity lose them a lot of opportunities, and respect.

I seriously hope you learned something from this.
Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

[sanjuro]

Drugs then hugs...
fixed it.

[DH Diva]

Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

Echo, my post was directed more at how the person should express herself in the future, not necessarily towards the actual situation. Coming into a forum and being a jerk doesn't hurt anyone but the person doing it and often people new to these message boards don't realize that their actions here can have greater repercussions than they think. My post was meant to get this person to think about how they are presenting themselves and how to deal with situations like this in the future.

I appreciate that you are trying to avoid further conflict, but I really think what I said needed to be said so that this person realizes there are better ways to deal with conflict and certainly better ways of presenting one's case.

[Echo]

certainly better ways of presenting one's case.
Like not using words like "moron" and "stupidity" :p

You're certainly welcome to voice your opinion, and it seems you're one of the well respected hunnies. It just made me sad that 2 days after the original post, and a day after the two parties had settled things, you seemed to be trying to re-instigate things. With people like sanjuro admitting they get their jollies out of watching such things, I just think it brings everyone down.

[DH Diva]

Like not using words like "moron" and "stupidity" :p

You're certainly welcome to voice your opinion, and it seems you're one of the well respected hunnies. It just made me sad that 2 days after the original post, and a day after the two parties had settled things, you seemed to be trying to re-instigate things. With people like sanjuro admitting they get their jollies out of watching such things, I just think it brings everyone down.

Echo, I hadn't actually read this thread until this morning and it seems some tried being entirely nice to make the point but it wasn't being "heard." I'm not trying to fan a fight between these two people, but I had a valid point I wanted to make about internet arguements. Also, nobody had mentioned the issue of who is actually seeing internet conversations and sometimes it's good to put that reminder out there.

I'm glad that I have some how gotten the reputation as being a respected member of this board, but I have never been shy about voicing my opinion here, even though sometimes its blunt.

Again, this has nothing to do with the actual arguement, that sounds like it was resolved, but has everything to do with remembering that what happens here sometimes translates to real life so please think about that.

[Echo]

It's all good... this forum is for you ladies, and I certainly don't want to interfere, just trying to keep everyone from piling on the noob for making an errant hotheaded post :p ride on :)

[Transcend]

Its also my first year downhilling. By my third race if I was beating ladies in intro and amateur and some elite riders by 1-2 min Id move up a class. Judging from the time in your last 3 races you probably should have asked to go first then you wouldn't have to worry about passing true beginners. We call that sandbagging for those of you who don't understand.

If you wanted to pass so bad then why didn't you? Rather than trying to pass right before the final rock garden in a 90 degree turn why didn't you pass in the safe zone??? You had every oppurtunity in the last 3 sections......it wasn't like my arms and legs were sticking out so you couldn't. This is a race/competition and I don't care who you are, I'm not jeopardizing my time for you.

As far as physical contact goes...for those of you girls who like to fight and for those guys who like to hit girls....I call that unsportsmanlike and immature.

So buck up and quit youre whining. You won, didn't you? Get over it!

Karma's a bitch.

edit: a few people beat me to it.

[DH Diva]

It's all good... this forum is for you ladies, and I certainly don't want to interfere, just trying to keep everyone from piling on the noob for making an errant hotheaded post :p ride on :)

Echo, you know your an honorary mudhunnie! We love ya!

And to Debo, I really hope you stick around this forum. It's great that more women are on here. I'm really sorry I used you as the example for my little sermon, it just happened to be the perfect example of a new member being a little quick at the keyboard. I hope you weren't too terribly offended, but if you want to you can hate me....I am kind of a jerk. :biggrin:

[TreeSaw]

Let's play nice. The two parties involved seem to have worked it out, nothing good can come from fanning the flames at this point.

Hey, I'm the oppressor here Mr. ;)

[TreeSaw]

Echo, you know your an honorary mudhunnie! We love ya!

And to Debo, I really hope you stick around this forum. It's great that more women are on here. I'm really sorry I used you as the example for my little sermon, it just happened to be the perfect example of a new member being a little quick at the keyboard. I hope you weren't too terribly offended, but if you want to you can hate me....I am kind of a jerk. :biggrin:

You, a jerk??? I highly doubt that! I really didn't see a need to "moderate" anything you or anyone else wrote in this thread. I think it was all valid, constructive critisim. I too hope Debo stays around. I've certainly learned a lot from my fellow mudhunnies and am always glad to have a new one on board! :cheers:

[Matt H]

Sportmanlike conduct in most forms of racing is that the slower racer yields to the faster racer. That goes for car racing, bike racing, motor or pedal...pretty much every form of racing other than NASCAR and maybe motocross/bikecross type events. In car racing, you can be black flagged for blocking a passer, and if you're really behind, you should just hold your line while the lead racers go by.

Same should apply on a bike...most races start riders at 30 sec intervals, correct? If you're passing me, that means you're already 30 seconds ahead of me - there's absolutely no reason I shouldn't dock myself another 5 seconds (at most) and let you by.

[PsychO!1]

As a passing rider, please remeber that we are all wearing full face helmets and it's tough to hear. Don't assume the rider in front knows your there.
I know the noise of my heavy breathing and pounding heart rate consume my helmet.
Also, the full face helmet can muffle your plea to pass. So, yell loud, and yell often, and I'll let you by as soon as trail give me an opportunuty. :-)

[erikkellison]

Interesting. I've never heard anyone suggest that the person who was caught (1 minute intervals!) had any right to keep on riding. If you're a minute slower than the person behind you in your class, then get out of the way!!! I do it when racing, riding, whatever. It's like giving the uphill hiker the right of way, or the person turning right always has the right of way over opposing left-turners. It's just a common rule. To suggest that someone should learn to pass if they're that good is ludicrous - there are not always safe places to pass. It should be suggested that the person who is a minute slower on a DH race lasting a few minutes should get out of the way because they're obviously impeding traffic, and their result isn't as critical as the person who caught up to them. Sure, you may want to do as good as you can, we all do, but pulling over for a rider who has caught up to you isn't going to hurt your time nearly as much as it will hurt the time of the faster rider behind you.
Slower Traffic Keep Right Except When Passing aka Get Out Of The Way
For the record, it's just as often that I'm the one being passed, and gladly move over in an instant. It's not only proper, but a good chance to ride behind a faster rider and see how they ride in their element. You're bound to learn a lot more that way then holding up the rider.
Oh, and please name a sport where the drastically slower racer doesn't allow the faster racer to pass. Every sport, motor or no motor, allows the much faster racer to pass because they are no longer competing on the same level (i.e. getting lapped), and they are not really hurting their time by moving out of the faster lane for a second or three, but the fast racer is suffering drastically.
Wow, that was long. I guess the slow rider's perspective seemed so ridiculous that I had to say something. There is no support for such a position.