Apple Admits iPod Rips off Creative Innovations, Pays Creative $100M USD

[syadasti]

Apple - steal different :rofl:

Press Release Source: Apple Computer, Inc.

Apple & Creative Announce Broad Settlement Ending Legal Disputes Between the Companies
Wednesday August 23, 5:00 pm ET

CUPERTINO, Calif. and SINGAPORE, Aug. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple® and Creative Technology, Ltd. (Nasdaq: CREAF - News) today announced a broad settlement ending all legal disputes between the two companies. Apple will pay Creative $100 million for a paid-up license to use Creative's recently awarded patent in all Apple products. Apple can recoup a portion of its payment if Creative is successful in licensing this patent to others. In addition, the companies announced that Creative has joined Apple's "Made for iPod" program and will be announcing their own iPod® accessory products later this year.

"Creative is very fortunate to have been granted this early patent," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "This settlement resolves all of our differences with Creative, including the five lawsuits currently pending between the companies, and removes the uncertainty and distraction of prolonged litigation."

"We're very pleased to have reached an amicable settlement with Apple and to have opened up significant new opportunities for Creative," said Sim Wong Hoo, chairman and CEO of Creative. "Apple has built a huge ecosystem for its iPod and with our upcoming participation in the Made for iPod program we are very excited about this new market opportunity for our speaker systems, our just-introduced line of earphones and headphones, and our future family of X- Fi audio enhancement products. We expect that the one-time licensing payment of $100 million will contribute approximately $.85 of earnings per share to our current quarter, ending September 30, 2006."

About Apple

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award- winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

About Creative

Creative is a worldwide leader in digital entertainment products for PC users. Famous for its Sound Blaster sound cards and for launching the multimedia revolution, Creative is now driving digital entertainment on the PC platform with products like its highly acclaimed ZEN(TM) MP3 players. Creative's innovative hardware, proprietary technology, applications and services leverage the Internet, enabling consumers to experience high-quality digital entertainment -- anytime, anywhere.

NOTE: Apple, the Apple logo, Mac, Mac OS, Macintosh and iPod are trademarks of Apple. Other company and product names may be trademarks of their respective owners.

[Ridemonkey]

What was the patent on?

[syadasti]

Apple iPods infringe on Creative's patent for a navigation system used to organize and access music on digital audio players.

This website explains it:

http://www.creative.com/zenpatent/

Here is a timeline:


4/1999 Creative NOMAD flash-based MP3 player (not the first, but Creative's first DAP)

Commercial HDD-Based DAP History
1 - 11/1999 :: Remote Solutions PJB-100, 4.8gb (MP3, USB, 2.5inch disk, Lithium battery, Mass Storage Device support, upgradable drive, removeable/replaceable Lithium battery)

2 - 08/2000 :: Creative Nomad Jukebox, 6gb (uses standard AA batteries, ID3 tag database/organization, WMA & WAV compatibility, MAC compatible, analog/optical Line-in recording to WAV, Dual line-out, on-the-fly playlisting, DSP effect)

3 - 09/2000 :: SSI Neo 25 6gb (IR remote)

4 - 12/2000 :: Archos 6000, 6gb (File/Folder Navigation)

5 - 04/2001 :: Creative Nomad Jukebox C, 6gb

6 - 06/2001 :: SSI Neo Jukebox, 6gb & 20gb

7 - 07/2001 :: Creative Nomad Jukebox, 20gb

8 - 07/2001 :: Archos Jukebox Recorder (USB2, on-the-fly MP3 encoding)

9 - 10/2001 :: Apple iPod v.1 (1.8" Toshiba drive, Firewire, wheeled controller)

[binary visions]

The navigation patent lawsuit(s) have been in process for a while now... Jobs is right, Creative is lucky and just ended up with a good patent early on. I doubt Apple actually "ripped off" anything, they just designed a system that infringed on an existing patent.

Some of their patent lawyers probably need a kick in the pants for not seeing this coming and informing Apple early in the game that their system infringed.

[I Are Baboon]

Apple's revenue was about $14 billion in 2005.

[syadasti]

Apple's revenue was about $14 billion in 2005.

It pays to steal - Apple (Xerox) and MS (Apple) are good examples :devil:

[I Are Baboon]

$100MM / $14BB = 0.7%

I don't think that's going to slow Apple down at all.

[syadasti]

$100MM / $14BB = 0.7%

I don't think that's going to slow Apple down at all.

Plus Creative has to pay Apple fees for their "Made for iPod" product certification.

[jonKranked]

haha i find this pretty funny. From what I've gathered, Apple legally licensed the technology from Creative, who thought it would never be worthwhile (hence the licensing to Apple). Then they get pissed when Apple makes billions off the iPod.

[syadasti]

haha i find this pretty funny. From what I've gathered, Apple legally licensed the technology from Creative, who thought it would never be worthwhile (hence the licensing to Apple). Then they get pissed when Apple makes billions off the iPod.

Actually what happened is Creative wasn't issued the patent until recently and then there were 5 lawsuits from Creative vs. Apple or Apple vs. Creative and then Apple settled with Creative.

[spincrazy]

Please try to keep your masturbation to a minimum. We don't want you to rub it off entirely. :)

Do you have stock in Creative?

[syadasti]

Please try to keep your masturbation to a minimum. We don't want you to rub it off entirely. :)

Do you have stock in Creative?

I don't own any mp3 players anymore except my Alpine car CD player, PCs, and a Mac.

History shows Apple doesn't innovative - just making that clear. Apple isn't much better than MS when it comes to stealing ideas and passing them off as their own new "exciting" products.

[spincrazy]

All biz 'steals'.

I also don't own an iPod or other mp3 player other than my desktop, but I did buy my gf a Nano.

I have some Creative speakers. I think they stole their design from Bose, but I don't care.

[syadasti]

All biz 'steals'.

Yes but most don't make smug commercials/ads claiming they "think different" or claim that their competitors are the only ones that copy others ideas.

[sanjuro]

I don't own any mp3 players anymore except my Alpine car CD player, PCs, and a Mac.

History shows Apple doesn't innovative - just making that clear. Apple isn't much better than MS when it comes to stealing ideas and passing them off as their own new "exciting" products.

Apple did invent the mouse, which as innovative as Microsoft's creation, DOS.

[syadasti]

Apple did invent the mouse, which as innovative as Microsoft's creation, DOS.

Nice sarcasm but really, Xerox invented GUI with a mouse and Apple copied it...

Early mice

Douglas Engelbart of Stanford Research Institute invented the mouse in 1963 after extensive usability testing. Engelbart's team called it "bug". It was one of several experimental pointing devices developed for Engelbart's oN-Line System (NLS). The other devices were designed to exploit other body movements—for example, head-mounted devices attached to the chin or nose—but ultimately the mouse won out because of its simplicity and convenience.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Firstmouseunderside.jpg

The first mouse, a bulky device (pictured) used two gear-wheels perpendicular to each other: the rotation of each wheel translated into motion along one axis. Engelbart received patent US3541541 on November 17, 1970 for an "X-Y Position Indicator for a Display System". At the time, Engelbart intended that users would hold the mouse continuously in one hand and type on a five-key chord keyset with the other.
[edit]

Mechanical mice

Bill English invented the so-called "ball mouse" in the early 1970s while working for Xerox PARC. The ball mouse replaced the external wheels with a single ball (that could rotate in any direction). The ball's motion, in turn, was detected using perpendicular wheels housed inside the mouse's body. This variant of the mouse resembled an inverted trackball and was the predominant form used with personal computers throughout the 1980s and 1990s. The Xerox PARC group also settled on the modern technique of using both hands to type on a full-size keyboard and grabbing the mouse as needed.

Modern computer mice took form at the École polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) under the inspiration of Professor Jean-Daniel Nicoud and at the hands of engineer and watchmaker André Guignard. A spin-off of EPFL, Logitech, launched the first popular mice.

The major movement translation techniques are by optical, mechanical and inertial sensors.

[DHRFX Joe]

Apple did invent the mouse, which as innovative as Microsoft's creation, DOS.

dont forget that al gore invented the internet.

by the way, creatives are awesome.

[jonKranked]

Actually what happened is Creative wasn't issued the patent until recently and then there were 5 lawsuits from Creative vs. Apple or Apple vs. Creative and then Apple settled with Creative.

patent or not they let apple use it before the really knew what a piece of awesomeness they had. or so i've heard.

[syadasti]

patent or not they let apple use it before the really knew what a piece of awesomeness they had. or so i've heard.

I guess you don't get the idea of patents and patent process. Companies have no legal means to protect their IP until a patent is granted - a process that takes years to occur. This is why DW won't go into detail about the dw-link link until his patents are granted.

If you have no patent on your idea, your patent is pending, or the patent has expired, anyone is free to copy it.

[sanjuro]

Nice sarcasm but really, Xerox invented GUI with a mouse and Apple copied it...
Well, at least MS invented DOS, right?

Seattle Computer Products (SCP) was a Seattle, Washington computer hardware company. Twenty-two year old Tim Paterson was hired in June 1978 by SCP's owner Rod Brock. In 1980 Paterson wrote the QDOS operating system, later known as 86-DOS, over a four month period. Microsoft purchased a license for the system in December 1980 for $25,000, which it in turn provided to IBM as the first PC operating system, MS-DOS, which IBM adapted as PC-DOS. Subsequently, in July 1981, Microsoft purchased full rights to QDOS for an additional $50,000. However, Microsoft did not disclose it was reselling the system to IBM. As a result, SCP sued Microsoft, and settled for $1 million in 1986. SCP is no longer in business.

Paterson was honored along with Bill Gates with the Stewart Alsop Hindsight Award in 1991.

[kinghami3]

It pays to steal - Apple (Xerox) and MS (Apple) are good examples :devil:
Well, it was more like Xerox told Apple, "Here's this GUI thing we've been working on, we don't want it, so you can have it." Microsoft was more like, "Hey, can we borrow a couple prototypes so we can... um... write some software for it (he he he)." I think there's a significant difference. As far as the iPod interface goes, Creative was just lucky to get an early patent on an interface that strangely resembles the browser system that iTunes already had, and that Apple incorporated into their music player. The interface is stupidly simple, and it's hard to believe anyone got a patent on it.

[syadasti]

Well, at least MS invented DOS, right?

Hence I said above, "Apple isn't much better than MS when it comes to stealing ideas and passing them off as their own new "exciting" products," and later "Nice sarcasm" :clue:

[syadasti]

Well, it was more like Xerox told Apple, "Here's this GUI thing we've been working on, we don't want it, so you can have it." Microsoft was more like, "Hey, can we borrow a couple prototypes so we can... um... write some software for it (he he he)." I think there's a significant difference.

Neither were original ideas. Both were prototypes from different companies.

Regardless in this case, Apple paid Creative thus they admitted guilt.

Apple many innovations aren't their own:

GUI - Xerox
Portable HDD MP3 Players - Compaq spinoff Remote Solutions in 1999, not Apple in 2001
MP3 broadcasting - Nullsoft in 1998, not Apple in 2004
First 64-bit PC - DEC (and later again before Apple - 1997 and AMD also) a decade before Apple had a 64-bit PC designed as a "cheap" PC to run the new WinNT OS
Konfabulator - Konfabulator in 2003, not Apple Dashboard in 2005
Watson-like functionality added Sherlock and on and on..

[jonKranked]

I guess you don't get the idea of patents and patent process. Companies have no legal means to protect their IP until a patent is granted - a process that takes years to occur. This is why DW won't go into detail about the dw-link link until his patents are granted.

If you have no patent on your idea, your patent is pending, or the patent has expired, anyone is free to copy it.


no i know very well how the patent process works. i'll see if i can digg up the article later, but what from what i remember, apple didn't come up the technology on their own, nor did they obtain it by questionable methods from creative. they approached creative about using it and creative at the time had no idea what a goldmine of an idea they had, so they said sure why not go ahead, just pay us for the idea. Then when the ipod exploded and made apple billions creative said d'oh!

[sanjuro]

Well at least Shimano invented the bicycle.

[jonKranked]

Well at least Shimano invented the bicycle.

nah they just marketed it :p

[syadasti]

Well at least Shimano invented the bicycle.

The difference is that Shimano isn't known for childish references to the competition and claims of being the first and only innovator. Does the president of Shimano attend large annual public conferences were he spouts his silly smug propaganda?

[binary visions]

Maybe syadasti is really Steve Jobs and he's got some kind of self-loathing personality disorder :think:

I can't really explain the obsessiveness any other way...

[syadasti]

I can't really explain the obsessiveness any other way...

boredom

[blue]

Maybe syadasti is really Steve Jobs and he's got some kind of self-loathing personality disorder :think:

I can't really explain the obsessiveness any other way...

I agree with Syadasti...Apple's stuff doesn't suck, just their corporate policies and neo-liberal hipster propaganda. I just wish I could stab their marketing dept for making people believe Apple is counter-culture and "different".

That said, I think I'm getting an iMac for my next PC.

[D_D]

The whole idea of innovation with mp3 players is bit suspect. Especially in the early years technology was the real limitation. Any 13 year old with an intreast in technology could come up with the ideas. It was just a matter of waiting for technology to catch up and make the ideas possible.

[sanjuro]

The difference is that Shimano isn't known for childish references to the competition and claims of being the first and only innovator. Does the president of Shimano attend large annual public conferences were he spouts his silly smug propaganda?
Seriously, Shimano is a company which current incantation started post WW2, whereas Apple is a post hippie, pre-Internet boom company.

Do you think Yoshizo Shimano was raised to run his mouth, like Jobs obviously was?

http://corporate.shimano.com/publish/content/corporate/en/shimanocorporatesiteen/about_shimano/company_history.MainContentPar.0026.BulletItem.000 2.Image.0.0.gif
http://www.folklore.org/projects/Macintosh/images/bowtiesteve.jpg

While we might think of cycling as a young business, companies like Campy, Shimano, and SRAM (originally Sachs) are old school as they come...

[sanjuro]

I agree with Syadasti...Apple's stuff doesn't suck, just their corporate policies and neo-liberal hipster propaganda. I just wish I could stab their marketing dept for making people believe Apple is counter-culture and "different".

That said, I think I'm getting an iMac for my next PC.
I will say this, I take the train with many Apple people, and I can tell you the way I dress for my corporate job is much different than Apple employees look.

However, since I think dressing your lifestyle is a bad move, when one of them acts up, I always think, "Wait'll they get a load of ME!"

http://www.arcanes.org/images/contenu/sml/1140771911-u0cli4-xekow29ytdgrj5npvam1qbz86s7fh3_.jpg

[binary visions]

I just wish I could stab their marketing dept for making people believe Apple is counter-culture and "different".
You guys are sad.

MOST marketing campaigns are based in fantasy. Apple's is no different.

It's an extremely effective marketing campaign, and it's very good at depriving the sheep from their money. I applaud Apple.

[sanjuro]

You guys are sad.

MOST marketing campaigns are based in fantasy. Apple's is no different.

It's an extremely effective marketing campaign, and it's very good at depriving the sheep from their money. I applaud Apple.
Marketing is marketing. I didn't buy my bikes because of ads in a magazine, and I didn't buy my Ipod because of the commericals.

I thought the Ipod was superior in many ways, and I feel satisfied, even though I paid the premium.

[binary visions]

Marketing is marketing. I didn't buy my bikes because of ads in a magazine, and I didn't buy my Ipod because of the commericals.

I thought the Ipod was superior in many ways, and I feel satisfied, even though I paid the premium.
Good. That wasn't directed at people who have made an informed decision based on their own criteria. Hell, I don't care if you like the iPod because it's white or it has a fun pink sparkly accessory, as long as there's a reason.

You can't argue that Apple sells a lot of product to people who have purchased it based on their marketing, though.

[spincrazy]

apple does not make their ads. tbwa chiat day does - LA office.

I work for the NY headquarters, but apple is not in my office.

[sanjuro]

You can't argue that Apple sells a lot of product to people who have purchased it based on their marketing, though.
:stupid:

[syadasti]

It's an extremely effective marketing campaign, and it's very good at depriving the sheep from their money. I applaud Apple.

Do you applaud companies for promoting the "EXTREME" sports lifestyle/image?

Most people dislike marketing bull**** or progapanda in any form. Why would you admire companies or for that matter politicians/governments who use such underhanded devices effectively?

[binary visions]

Government propaganda is different, that is public figures using underhanded measures to change public opinion on issues that directly impact their lives and their country.

Are you really comparing a marketing campaign for an MP3 player or "extreme" potato chips to government propaganda? :rolleyes: Way to have perspective.

If an effective marketing campaign seperates a few sheep from their money, big deal. It's what makes the world go 'round.

[syadasti]

Government propaganda is different, that is public figures using underhanded measures to change public opinion on issues that directly impact their lives and their country.

Are you really comparing a marketing campaign for an MP3 player or "extreme" potato chips to government propaganda? :rolleyes: Way to have perspective.

If an effective marketing campaign seperates a few sheep from their money, big deal. It's what makes the world go 'round.

So as long as its private companies trying to steal people's money, its ok :rolleyes:

I am saying they are all wrong and taking advantage of people's ignorance should not be applauded or even acceptable.

Blatant false advertising is illegal for a reason. Slick marketing isn't too far from false advertising - in fact the BBB and other organizations overseas have required Apple to stop some ad campaigns in the past (G5 commercial claiming world's fastest and first 64-bit PC comes to mind as the most recent one).

[binary visions]

Oh, Jesus.

I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you.

People need to take some of their own damn responsibility for their money. It's pathetic when terms like "stealing" are flung around, as if these consumers had their money siphoned away from them outside of their control.

Blatent false advertising about the actual capabilities of a product is wrong, e.g. stating that a product holds 60gb when it only holds 30gb. Implying that the product might be different from the rest of the market with a slogan like "think different" is simply spinning it in a certain marketing direction and people need to make their own decisions. If they can't be bothered to learn about a product before spending $300 on it, then that's a personal problem.

Nobody is holding your hand, guiding you through life. Learn about your options before you make decisions, or suffer the consequences. It's part of being your own person.

[syadasti]

Apple was guilty of blantant false advertising with the G5 and thats why the BBB had the ads pulled and they were also banned in the UK (http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5180251.html).

My point is you should not admire any individual or organization that benefits from underhanded tactics. I'm not trying to say all Apple marketing is wrong or illegal. Apple marketing is stronger, more slanted, and tends to go overboard (like XTREME products) and that is what I dislike.

Marketing has gotten out of control - take a look at America's obesity problem caused by the junk food industry (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14415766/page/2/) - its an exact psychological warfare that begins as soon as children have any influence in product decisions.

Once upon a time, food commercials targeted mom. Today, food marketing aimed directly at children is a $10 billion dollar industry. And two-thirds of Americans polled say it’s a major contributor to childhood obesity.

Susan Linn, psychologist: Kids are bombarded with marketing from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go to bed at night.

Harvard psychologist Susan Linn calls it “brainwashing” and wants it to end. So she joined with concerned parents and advocacy groups to serve notice, that they intend to sue cereal-makers and children’s TV channels—for marketing unhealthy food to kids.

Linn: There’s no moral, ethical or social justification for marketing junk food to kids. I mean it’s not good for them.

A typical child sees 40,000 commercials a year. More than half of them for fast food, candy, soft drinks, and sweetened breakfast cereals.

But TV is just the beginning... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14415766/page/2/)

[binary visions]

Please re-read the first two lines of my last post. :wave:

:monkey:

[sanjuro]

Do you applaud companies for promoting the "EXTREME" sports lifestyle/image?

Most people dislike marketing bull**** or progapanda in any form. Why would you admire companies or for that matter politicians/governments who use such underhanded devices effectively?
Now you have taken this marketing stuff too seriously. My image of the ipod is a silhouette dancing to hip music. My image of a Macintosh is the use of a BSD kernel.

Marketing is a 30 second commercial. Do you take ads for soap, cars, or beer as seriously?

BTW, I suppose you don't use Fox, clothing or forks? I hear they are promoting the extreme lifestyle.

[Ridemonkey]

I'm sure this is just evil Apple marketing guerilla propaganda, but I'm curious what the response is to this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_hi_te/tech_test_mac_pro_3

[syadasti]

Now you have taken this marketing stuff too seriously...My image of a Macintosh is the use of a BSD kernel.

How many Apple commercials for the general public talk about BSD (there have been only a handful that mention "the power of unix", but they don't specify BSD.) BSD comes from your own knowledge, not marketing.

Marketing is a 30 second commercial. Do you take ads for soap, cars, or beer as seriously?

I don't take them seriously but I find plenty annoying and offensive. Ever hear of Tivo? Adblock for firefox? Popup blockers? etc, etc...

We are talking the general public, not you or I. Marketing works otherwise companies wouldn't wasted millions on it.

BTW, I suppose you don't use Fox, clothing or forks? I hear they are promoting the extreme lifestyle.

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.

[Ridemonkey]

The difference is that Shimano isn't known for childish references to the competition and claims of being the first and only innovator. Does the president of Shimano attend large annual public conferences were he spouts his silly smug propaganda?
You're right...such a shady business tactic...imagine, the head of a company talking about its products in a public setting...

http://www.kxly.com/upload/pics/80/805.jpg

[syadasti]

I'm sure this is just evil Apple marketing guerilla propaganda, but I'm curious what the response is to this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_hi_te/tech_test_mac_pro_3

Nothing because I already knowledged this (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2240574&postcount=87) a few weeks ago :clue:

[syadasti]

You're right...such a shady business tactic...imagine, the head of a company talking about its products in a public setting...

Too bad you can't read cause I already said MS was bad :rofl:

History shows Apple doesn't innovative - just making that clear. Apple isn't much better than MS when it comes to stealing ideas and passing them off as their own new "exciting" products.

[sanjuro]

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.
Marketing is what drive businesses. The problem I have with marketing today is that is so effective. My counterparts from Generation X are the geniuses who dream this crap up, which is basically selling out what is "valuable" to us.

Think I enjoy hearing "TV Eye" to sell a Xterra (snowboarder does a gap jump) or "Lust for Life" to sell cruises? Yeah, I do enjoy hearing a quick snippet of my favorite artist, which is why marketing today is so effective.

[Ridemonkey]

Too bad you can't read cause I already said MS was bad :rofl:
My point is they're all "bad". That's business. Since when does Tide make your dirty socks perfectly white? When does your home gym make you look like the dude in the commercial? When does beer get you hot chicks in tank tops and booty shorts? Do cigarattes make you a slick looking camel?

Advertising is the semi-legitimate way for companies to get their products recognition. It's used by EVERY company in EVERY market. Get over it.

[syadasti]

Advertising is the semi-legitimate way for companies to get their products recognition. It's used by EVERY company in EVERY market. Get over it.

Apple marketing isn't delivered as completely obvious hyperbole like most products...

[Ridemonkey]

"The world's fastest personal computer."

You're right, hardly hyperbole.

[syadasti]

"The world's fastest personal computer."

You're right, hardly hyperbole.

Yeah and then they include one or two very specific PPC optimized plugin benchmarks in print ads and try to act like its factual proof when its a just pseudo technical BS special case. Next Apple switches platforms and tell the truth - G5 is slower, we were lying :thumb:

And also in the G5 commercial and also a lie - first 64-bit PC, if you don't count the half dozen other PC that came before.

This fastest/first campaign was banned in the US and the UK, it was false advertising Apple TRIED TO REPRESENT AS FACTUAL... (http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5180251.html)

Here are the firsts...

First 64-bit PC - 1992 (one decade before the Apple G5!)
"The DECpc 150/AXP was the first 'Alpha PC' produced by Digital. The idea behind them was to make an Alpha system with a PC-like peripheral environment, thereby allowing to use as much cheap PC hardware as possible. DEC's primary intent was to run Windows NT, and this machine was sold with a preinstalled NT 3.1 via Vobis, Germany's largest computer seller. It was a great flop, given that the NT 3.1 this machine was sold with was the first Alpha version of NT that still consisted mostly of i386 code, so the processor spent most of the time emulating an Intel CPU. Selling it with only 16 Mbytes of RAM didn't make the situation better... ":
http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/axp150/

First Mainstream 64-bit CPU Value/Mainstream Computers-
Alpha Windows NT Boxes (ran NT with the FX!32) - started at under $2K released in 1997 - Polywell was one of the three main vendors with an offering - failed to catch on cause it was slower emulating 32-bit x86 programs than running them on the real thing again (duh!).

After that there was AMD 64-bit Opteron PC announced April 2003. June 2003 BOXX Technologies shipped it before the G5 was even announced. It has an Opteron 244 in it.

[Ridemonkey]

You are impossible.

[syadasti]

You are impossible.

:rofl:

All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

[reflux]

I wish I could live a life void of any useless marketing and advertising directed towards me. Life a a quaker or a mormon fundamentalist would freakin r0x0r!!1!

[syadasti]

I wish I could live a life void of any useless marketing and advertising directed towards me. Life a a quaker or a mormon fundamentalist would freakin r0x0r!!1!

Quit watching your TV then. I've probably only watched a few of hours in the past 6 months...

You obviously don't know any Quakers. Quaker camps rule, I went to this one (they have coed sauna nights BTW):

Campers are free to wear what they want at the waterfronts as well. The acceptance of skinny dipping at F&W waterfronts has roots going back 60 years and happens only when specific conditions are met. Staff initiate discussions about respect for the human body, nudity, privacy, making choices, and respecting others’ choices. Campers are encouraged to choose what they want to wear at the waterfront and that choice can include nothing at all. Some campers and staff continue to wear suits, while others choose not to. We actively support every individual’s choice. Because of the active interactions between our camps during square dances, trips and other shared activities, it is likely that campers will encounter co-ed environments. This may include waterfronts where skinny-dipping is practiced.

[maxyedor]

I am not talking about real outdoor products companies which truly are used for alternative sports. I am talking about Slim Jims, Mountain Dew, SUV ads, and other marketing XTREME trash.

Hmm, the other day I was driving my SUV to the trail while drinking Mountain Dew, eating a Slim Jim, and jaming to tunes on my iPod, wearing a Fox t-shirt. You must think I'm a retard. But in actuallity the SUV does what I need a car to do, Mountain Dew and tastes good, Slim Jims are cheap and spicy, and the iPod cost about the same as other players, but I found it to have better egoomics, ehile being smaller.

Seriously dude, take a deap breath. BMWs are sold as the "Ultimate Driving Machine" I've never seen any atempt at providing data to prove that, but I don't hear you calling them out for it. England's rules for truth in advertisig are whacky, they basicly state that you can't make any claims that can be argued in any way. "The G5 is fast" not acceptable "The G5 is silver" would be.

Apple says the Mac Pro is faster because it IS faster than the G5. That's what evolution is about in the computer industry. Apple reached the end of the usufull life of the PowerPC chip and switched to Intel. Intel made the Pentium, the Pentium 2, Pentium 3, ect, they kept coming out with new chips to better suit the market. Apple had the G3, G4, G5, then to better suit the market they switched to Intel, the current Intel chip is faster for cheaper than the G5 was, just like the G5 was faster for cheaper than the older Intel chip set.

If you just hate Apple say it. Stop with the "They use false advertising to bilk the consumer" BS.

[syadasti]

Apple says the Mac Pro is faster because it IS faster than the G5. That's what evolution is about in the computer industry. Apple reached the end of the usufull life of the PowerPC chip and switched to Intel. Intel made the Pentium, the Pentium 2, Pentium 3, ect, they kept coming out with new chips to better suit the market. Apple had the G3, G4, G5, then to better suit the market they switched to Intel, the current Intel chip is faster for cheaper than the G5 was, just like the G5 was faster for cheaper than the older Intel chip set.

If you just hate Apple say it. Stop with the "They use false advertising to bilk the consumer" BS.

They claimed the G5 was the first 64-bit PC - it wasn't. They've claimed the Gx was faster than PC of the time through the different generations of CPU, but thats never panned out either in comprehensive tests. The G5 ads were false advertisement - BBB in the US AND UK both agreed.

Also G4 notebook CPU = slower than Pentium Mobile [CPU of the Intel Centrino notebook platform] from past generation too. Pentium Mobile is the same architecture as the Core series (the ones that beat the G5):

Intel Core is the name used for the processor codenamed Yonah (Hebrew transliteration for Jonah - יונה), released on January 5, 2006. It replaced the Pentium M brand used for earlier mobile processors with the same microarchitecture. It was part of a major rebranding effort by Intel starting January 2006; the next generation of desktop and mobile processors after the Intel Core processor is the Intel Core 2, replacing the Pentium brand.

Core 2 is an eighth-generation x86 architecture microprocessor produced by Intel based on the Intel Core Microarchitecture. It is also the basis for the Xeon (Woodcrest) found in the new Mac Pro.

People who believe Apple claims don't think different, they don't think at all ;)

[maxyedor]

They claimed the G5 was the first 64-bit PC - it wasn't. They've claimed the Gx was faster than PC of the time through the different generations of CPU, but thats never panned out either in comprehensive tests. The G5 ads were false advertisement - BBB in the US and UK both agreed.

Also G4 notebook CPU = slower than Pentium Mobile from past generation too. Pentium Mobile is the same architecture as the Core series (the ones that beat the G5):



People who believe Apple claims don't think different, they don't think at all ;)
May I please see the test results that showed difinatively that Pentium M chips were faster than G4 chips. I never said that I beleive the claims of faster speed vs PC, all I know is that virtualy the entire photography industry used and is based on OSX. Also when I used to use Windows I had my PC crash or freeze at least once a week, hell I had a Dell that I couldn't even get photoshop installed on, or get conected to the internet. Sent it back and they said "It's fine" took it to a computer repair place and they said "It's fvcked" I got the same responce from everybody who looked at that thing, finaly trew it away. Since switching to Apple I have had narry a problem. My sony battery in my laptop is being recalled, but same thing happened with Dells.

Also when will we be seing your"BMW is a bunch of lying crooks" thread?

[sanjuro]

What do I care what idiots do? Let them swallow any lie given to them

- George Bush

[syadasti]

May I please see the test results that showed difinatively that Pentium M chips were faster than G4 chips. I never said that I beleive the claims of faster speed vs PC, all I know is that virtualy the entire photography industry used and is based on OSX. Also when I used to use Windows I had my PC crash or freeze at least once a week, hell I had a Dell that I couldn't even get photoshop installed on, or get conected to the internet. Sent it back and they said "It's fine" took it to a computer repair place and they said "It's fvcked" I got the same responce from everybody who looked at that thing, finaly trew it away. Since switching to Apple I have had narry a problem. My sony battery in my laptop is being recalled, but same thing happened with Dells.

Also when will we be seing your"BMW is a bunch of lying crooks" thread?

Just cause you or some users on RM can't use a PC correctly doesn't mean anything.

For significant pattern you look at the entire group of computer users, we'll see that only 6% use mac as better for their balance of their needs - not the highest Apple's userbase has even been if you look at historical userbase. People and/or specific industries are heavily invested in skills and platforms, so the trends in overall userbase over longer time periods show which platform is doing a better job rather than a specific industry or useage - change in those cases will be take many years if they happen at all (only very significant benefits will outweigh the invested training and capital in the platform.) I definately agree Apple has had a much better platform since they've switched to OSX and will only get better with Intel (or AMD) inside.

BMW or other car makers don't make very specific claims which can easily be proven true or false.

[blue]

BMW or other car makers don't make very specific claims which can easily be proven true or false.

TEH 327i HAS TEH MOST HORSEPOWER OF ANY AUTOMOBILE EVERZORZ@O$!!(&)!111ondeone

I think Apple ditched PowerPC because IBM/moto let it sit dead in the water in the PC market and instead redirected everything over to embedded...

Someone buy me an iMac. :(

[Ciaran]

:rofl:

It's like a frikking computer jihad in here. How did I miss this thread?
:rofl:

[maxyedor]

Just cause you or some users on RM can't use a PC correctly doesn't mean anything.

So no link to the aformention test results? Or are they secret?

Also I do not beleive your assumption that myself as well as other RM users are just too inept to use a PC, and if we are then bravo for Apple for making a computer that us inept retards can use without issue. But as I do ot beleive that we are a bunch of idiots, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the "proper" way to use a PC. I was somehow able to batch proccess over 1000 RAW images last night on my G5 in about an hour, imagine what I could have doe on a PC if I olny knew how to operate one. When I tried that sort of thing on my old PC it used to like to crash left and right. The thing I like about Apple is that I can buy a new computer, take it out of the box, load Photoshop, then start working in under 30 mins, and it will keep working fine for years, I don't need to kow a "proper" way of using it.

Also while "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is not a claim of any specific performance, you seem to hate Apple because of their "Think Different" attitude as well as their claims of speed. So do you hate all marketing departsments or just Apple's. That's what companies do, they make claims, most of wich can't be backed by evidence, Apple was just not very smart with the wording of theirs, had they run "G5, it's bloody fast" there would be no problem, but they singled out another product and said "we're faster than that". Do you get pissed when bike companies lie about weight, car companies lie about horse-power and 0-60 times and fuel ecconomy.

I'm not an Apple fanboy, I just wonder what your issue is with a company that makes claims it can't support, while you yourself make arguments against that company that you can't support.

[binary visions]

...aaannd there's been enough stupidity for one thread. On to the next Apple thread that syadasti does his level best to destroy :rolleyes: