Has America come full circle? (religious persecution)

[jonKranked]

Ok so this has been a thought bouncing around in my head for a while now. For those of you living under rocks or in una-bomber style shacks, the christian's have gotten into the White House and are running amok. Bush has been pushing faith based initiatives for some time now. From pushing abstinence only programs to using christian references in regards to fighting the war on terror, it seems that religious persecution has made quite a comeback. I know that we have separation of church and state (supposedly) but it seems as if this concept has fallen to the wayside with the Bush administration. Now what I find most interesting is that the United States was founded by people who had left England in order to escape religious persecution (although in modern times it is not quite as extreme). They came here so they could start a new life and freely practice whatever religion they so desired, although this isn't the only reason, it is a very common one (and applies moreso to the earlier settlers than the later). It seems as if America is becoming a nation driven by an idea it was founded to eliminate. Has anyone else made this connection or have any ideas or thoughts on the subject?

[Old Man G Funk]

Ok so this has been a thought bouncing around in my head for a while now. For those of you living under rocks or in una-bomber style shacks, the christian's have gotten into the White House and are running amok. Bush has been pushing faith based initiatives for some time now. From pushing abstinence only programs to using christian references in regards to fighting the war on terror, it seems that religious persecution has made quite a comeback. I know that we have separation of church and state (supposedly) but it seems as if this concept has fallen to the wayside with the Bush administration. Now what I find most interesting is that the United States was founded by people who had left England in order to escape religious persecution (although in modern times it is not quite as extreme). They came here so they could start a new life and freely practice whatever religion they so desired, although this isn't the only reason, it is a very common one (and applies moreso to the earlier settlers than the later). It seems as if America is becoming a nation driven by an idea it was founded to eliminate. Has anyone else made this connection or have any ideas or thoughts on the subject?
Don't forget the Orwellian twist. The Xtians assert that they are the ones being persecuted.

[MudGrrl]

that's what I forgot to do today....

persecute me some Christians.



anyone wanna volunteer?

[Tenchiro]

that's what I forgot to do today....
persecute me some Christians.
anyone wanna volunteer?


If only we had some lions...

[Westy]

that's what I forgot to do today....

persecute me some Christians.



anyone wanna volunteer?


I was going to do the same thing but I left my lion at home.

[DirtyDog]

I was going to do the same thing but I left my lion at home.

I have a lion. Where shall we start?

[Tenchiro]

I have a lion. Where shall we start?

Let the lion pick.

[Old Man G Funk]

lyin' prick..???

:eek:
Lion prick? Doesn't that come from a children's story about a mouse pulling a thorn from a lion's paw?

N8, have you graduated to reading children's books now? Congratulations.

[jonKranked]

Don't forget the Orwellian twist. The Xtians assert that they are the ones being persecuted.


Yea, someone is always gonna pi$$ someone else off. The Bush admin is just case in point. But they aren't the only ones guilty of pushing Christian views in non-religious settings.

[MMike]

I think it's more of a hexagon.

[fluff]

I think it's more of a hexagon.
You're still thinking in two dimensions.

It's a dodecahedron.

[Silver]

Not full circle. The relgious right has just become noisier.

[Old Man G Funk]

Yea, someone is always gonna pi$$ someone else off. The Bush admin is just case in point. But they aren't the only ones guilty of pushing Christian views in non-religious settings.
Of course not. There are quite a few think tanks out there that specifically try to push Xtian views on the rest of the public. Focus on the Family, Discovery Institute, etc. And, we see the issues come up in many places, like evolution, climate change, abortion, sex education, etc. If a group like the Dominionists ever gains control of this country, we will all be in big trouble.

[Bearmntpicnic]

if you are reffering to the puritans, they came to America so they could be pure and escape the unpure churches of england they werent being prusecuted at all. They wanted to come to America to set up a state just the way god wanted it to be, they were sepratists. I mean they loved god more than their wives.

[laura]

Has anyone else made this connection?


No, I think this is an idea totally unique to you. Write a book.

[laura]

Well, whatdaya know... America is largly a christian country... whoda thunk it.


alright mr cut and paste. I want to see stats on religious affiliation in the country. Not because I don't believe you, but because I am curious and lazy at the same time.

[Old Man G Funk]

Well, whatdaya know... America is largly a christian country... whoda thunk it.
And this country has certain mechanisms in place that are there to protect the rights of the minority and not allow the majority to trample those rights.

[jonKranked]

No, I think this is an idea totally unique to you. Write a book.


ok....

http://www.derpbrap.com/img/ElPenis.jpg

[Old Man G Funk]

Aww... are your widdle wites being twampled on today..???
Actually, it's quite a few people's rights. Those rights also protect Xtians from having their rights trampled. There would be quite a few unhappy Xtians if the Dominionists controlled this country.

[laura]

Christianity is claimed by 76.5% of the US population.

Nonreligious/Secular is claimed by 13.2% of the US population


http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions


No, 76.5% of the 50,000 people surveyed by phone for the NSRI and ARIS are christian. FYI, telephone surveys are fundamentally flawed and one of the weakest form of survey.

[Secret Squirrel]

Well, whatdaya know... America is largly a christian country... whoda thunk it.
Doesn't matter what the predominant religion is....It's empire building as a common practice that is screwing everything up...

Man of faith gets paritioners, congregation grows, bigger and better things come along...funds for a bigger church, more paritioners, repeat ad naseum.....

Eventually, the pressure is so great to keep adding to the congregation, so that growth will continue, that the original message is lost.

Mind you, this is not the rule, but there are many exceptions where this is true....I've seen it too many times to count where I live, and it's just not pretty. All of a sudden you have a mob mentality in a community just because....

[Secret Squirrel]

I think the numbers are reasonably close...
Imagine that.......

[laura]

I think the numbers are reasonably close...

i'm not arguing, I just refuse to let you mis-represent data in anyway shape or form. :p

[Old Man G Funk]

i'm not arguing, I just refuse to let you mis-represent data in anyway shape or form. :p
Do you mean that this may be a country whose inhabitants are predominantly Xtian, but N8's use of "This is a Christian country" is incorrect?

[DirtyDog]

Wrong-o... yet again.!

Christianity is far less obtrusive now than it has ever been in the history of the US.

Says N8 the all-knowing....

[fluff]

Wrong-o... yet again.!

Christianity is far less obtrusive now than it has ever been in the history of the US.
Source?

[BurlyShirley]

This thread is retarded. Anyone that thinks religion plays MORE of a role now than it did 100 years ago is a RETARD.

[Old Man G Funk]

Religion has finally been pretty much banned from the classroom, courtroom and most of the government for the first time in our history.
How many atheists serve in our federal government? How many do you think could get elected? How many teachers have complained that they are pressured to gloss over evolution because they might offend parents' sensibilities? How many abortion clinics are under protest daily? How many gay marriage bans have been enacted? Why is "under god" in the pledge of allegiance? Why is god on our currency? Etc. etc. etc.

[BurlyShirley]

How many atheists serve in our federal government? How many do you think could get elected? How many teachers have complained that they are pressured to gloss over evolution because they might offend parents' sensibilities? How many abortion clinics are under protest daily? How many gay marriage bans have been enacted? Why is "under god" in the pledge of allegiance? Why is god on our currency? Etc. etc. etc.

Imagine that. The majority is electing people they share beleifs with in a representative democracy. Amazing.

[Silver]

Imagine that. The majority is electing people they share beleifs with in a representative democracy. Amazing.

That's cool. No more bitching about Hamas, ok?

[Old Man G Funk]

Imagine that. The majority is electing people they share beleifs with in a representative democracy. Amazing.
And their beliefs have oh so much to do with a gov. that is supposed to be secular and separate from those beliefs. It's also a gov. that guarantees no religious test be used before someone can take office, but the people have found a way to circumvent that, haven't they? Many of those same people think that they have the right to force their religion down everyone else's throat, and if you deny them then somehow you are denying their rights.

[DirtyDog]

Imagine that. The majority is electing people they share beleifs with in a representative democracy. Amazing.

The issue is that the majority would like to impose their beliefs on the minority. That has already been stated in this thread, but you are selectively reading as usual.

[Old Man G Funk]

That's cool. No more bitching about Hamas, ok?
I have to spread rep around before giving it to you again.

[BurlyShirley]

That's cool. No more bitching about Hamas, ok?
I could give a rats ass if they have a fundamentalist govt. in other countries. It's their country, they can do what they want. When they start overstepping their bounds, well, thats why we have so many guns.

Jesus vs. Allah, round #88

[laura]

This thread is retarded. Anyone that thinks religion plays MORE of a role now than it did 100 years ago is a RETARD.


i feel as long as we aren't burning people at the stake, we have made progress.

[BurlyShirley]

The issue is that the majority would like to impose their beliefs on the minority. That has already been stated in this thread, but you are selectively reading as usual.
Not being selective, just starting at the end cause Im lazy. Its already been said as well that there are laws in place so that beliefs CANT be imposed via govt. There is nothing you can do to stop people from voiting for those that share their beleifs. Im not a xtian, but I manage to deal w/ it just fine. What's wrong with the rest of you?

[Old Man G Funk]

I could give a rats ass if they have a fundamentalist govt. in other countries. It's their country, they can do what they want. When they start overstepping their bounds, well, thats why we have so many guns.

Jesus vs. Allah, round #88
And we would be Jesus in that statement?

So, now you are equating the US with Jesus?

[BurlyShirley]

i feel as long as we aren't burning people at the stake, we have made progress.
Exactly. There are TONS of examples where religion played a much more significant role than it does today. You cant even pray before a football game or graduation anymore, and you're trying to tell me the fundies have taken over? Riighgght. :rolleyes:

[Old Man G Funk]

Not being selective, just starting at the end cause Im lazy. Its already been said as well that there are laws in place so that beliefs CANT be imposed via govt. There is nothing you can do to stop people from voiting for those that share their beleifs. Im not a xtian, but I manage to deal w/ it just fine. What's wrong with the rest of you?
[my emphasis]
Maybe that's why you "deal w/ it just fine?"

Yes, there are laws, but those laws are not necessarily enforced correctly. For instance, the fact that we have mentions of god on our currency.

[BurlyShirley]

And we would be Jesus in that statement?

So, now you are equating the US with Jesus?
Did you YOURSELF not say that the govt. is largely elected christians? Or are you failing to make a simple connection?

[BurlyShirley]

[my emphasis]
Maybe that's why you "deal w/ it just fine?"

Yes, there are laws, but those laws are not necessarily enforced correctly. For instance, the fact that we have mentions of god on our currency.

Awwwwwwww. Little words on the currency hurt your feelings? That's so precious.

[Old Man G Funk]

Did you YOURSELF not say that the govt. is largely elected christians? Or are you failing to make a simple connection?
So you have no problem then in framing any hostilities between us and the countries of the M.E. as a religious war?

[Old Man G Funk]

Awwwwwwww. Little words on the currency hurt your feelings? That's so precious.
I never said they hurt my feelings. Your pathetic little attempt to bait me is simply that, pathetic. It's about my rights and the rights of all the citizens of the US.

Edit: IOW, this is a legal discussion. If you don't have the requisite skills to keep up, then bow out. And, if this thread is so retarded as you put it, then go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to read this or to respond. It's pretty retarded to stay in here if it bothers you so much.

[DirtyDog]

Not being selective, just starting at the end cause Im lazy. Its already been said as well that there are laws in place so that beliefs CANT be imposed via govt. There is nothing you can do to stop people from voiting for those that share their beleifs. Im not a xtian, but I manage to deal w/ it just fine. What's wrong with the rest of you?


I'm sure that as a white college aged person you are subjected to persecution on a regular basis :rolleyes: When you grow up a bit, and learn more about the world, you will realize that your own experiences in your insulated little world do not represent the experiences of most people in this country.

However, I suspect that you just don't care. Obviously, what is good enough for Burley, is good enough for everyone.

[BurlyShirley]

So you have no problem then in framing any hostilities between us and the countries of the M.E. as a religious war?
Considering that one side supports a religion which demands conversion or death to people of OTHER religions? No. Not at all.

[Old Man G Funk]

Considering that one side supports a religion which demands conversion or death to people of OTHER religions? No. Not at all.
Which one are you referring to?

[BurlyShirley]

I'm sure that as a white college aged person you are subjected to persecution on a regular basis :rolleyes: When you grow up a bit, and learn more about the world, you will realize that your own experiences in your insulated little world do not represent the experiences of most people in this country.

However, I suspect that you just don't care. Obviously, what is good enough for Burley, is good enough for everyone.

While its true that I dont really care about others, I do get annoyed by wasted effort. For instance, this argument. Christians (the majority of the country) arent going to vote for atheists. As part of a country where I DONT feel persecution, I must say, Im pretty happy with it. As an atheist, no one gives me any ****. Once in a while some nutjob will try to talk me into a life of jesus, but I quickly put an end to such things. No biggie.

[BurlyShirley]

Which one are you referring to?
smartass:D

[DirtyDog]

While its true that I dont really care about others, I do get annoyed by wasted effort. For instance, this argument. Christians (the majority of the country) arent going to vote for atheists. As part of a country where I DONT feel persecution, I must say, Im pretty happy with it. As an atheist, no one gives me any ****. Once in a while some nutjob will try to talk me into a life of jesus, but I quickly put an end to such things. No biggie.

A reasonable response, but again I'm not talking about WHO's in office. I'm talking about those people in office respecting the rights of the minorities in this country.

[BurlyShirley]

A reasonable response, but again I'm not talking about WHO's in office. I'm talking about those people in office respecting the rights of the minorities in this country.

There is a gay dude that I work with. The other day I called roller blades "Fruit Boots" during a conversation with him without thinking. Later I said, "hey man, sorry about the uh, fruit reference" and he said something to the effect of "I can tell if something is malicious or not. No worries"
I guess I share a feeling similar in that, I recognize I live in a xtian country as he lives in a straight world. Things will be said, but they mostly dont matter.

[jonKranked]

How many atheists serve in our federal government? How many do you think could get elected? How many teachers have complained that they are pressured to gloss over evolution because they might offend parents' sensibilities? How many abortion clinics are under protest daily? How many gay marriage bans have been enacted? Why is "under god" in the pledge of allegiance? Why is god on our currency? Etc. etc. etc.


One of the main problems is that the Xtians are trying to create laws to re-inforce their religious beliefs. Like outlawing abortion, banning gay marriage are two of the major ones that come to mind. You don't like abortions? Don't have one. Don't want gays getting married? Surprise! don't marry someone of the same gender. Also teaching abstinence as the foundation of sex education.

[BurlyShirley]

One of the main problems is that the Xtians are trying to create laws to re-inforce their religious beliefs. Like outlawing abortion, banning gay marriage are two of the major ones that come to mind. You don't like abortions? Don't have one. Don't want gays getting married? Surprise! don't marry someone of the same gender. Also teaching abstinence as the foundation of sex education.
Dude, if you think ANY of those things has a CHANCE IN HELL of becoming law, you're wrong. Totally wrong.

EDIT: I should clarify. There wont be any const. ammendment against gay marriage. That it hasnt been made legal YET is a sign of the voting populace NOT the politicians themselves. They do whatever we say for votes.

[jonKranked]

Dude, if you think ANY of those things has a CHANCE IN HELL of becoming law, you're wrong. Totally wrong.

in case you read the post, it said "trying to create". :clue:

[BurlyShirley]

in case you read the post, it said "trying to create". :clue:
So then you admit America HASNT come full circle and your thread is worthless?;)

[DirtyDog]

Judging by the views of you and your fellow liberals in here, I highly doubt you would be a tolerant majority if Christians were in the minority here in the US...

Can you cite some specific examples?

[Secret Squirrel]

Judging by the views of you and your fellow liberals in here, I highly doubt you would be a tolerant majority if Christians were in the minority here in the US...
I'm too ambivolent towards religious minorities to care.....

It's when they get to be the majority and start force feeding the minorities the crap they see as filet mignon that issues arise. Obviously, you don't pay any attention to anyone's posts beyond filing it under "Liberal Jibba-Jabba".....

[Westy]

Can you cite some specific examples?

C'mon you'd opress the hell out of them. Make them take floating holidays at Christmas, refuse to give their freaky family status any legal recognition and send folks knocking on their doors forcing crazy ideas like science down their throat. Amnesty international would be all over your ass.

[DirtyDog]

C'mon you'd opress the hell out of them. Make them take floating holidays at Christmas, refuse to give their freaky family status any legal recognition and send folks knocking on their doors forcing crazy ideas like science down their throat. Amnesty international would be all over your ass.

Yeah I suppose that's true.

[TTownJon]

One of the main problems is that the Xtians are trying to create laws to re-inforce their religious beliefs. Like outlawing abortion, banning gay marriage are two of the major ones that come to mind. You don't like abortions? Don't have one. Don't want gays getting married? Surprise! don't marry someone of the same gender. Also teaching abstinence as the foundation of sex education.

Exactly. I really care not about prayers before football games, etc.. since they honestly don't have any terrible human consequences (except maybe people of other religions feeling left out). When there are true health or human consequences I see a problem (see stem cell thread).

interesting that all the issues quoted above relate in some way to sex....;)

[JohnE]

Just remember this when you VOTE in a couple years. All the hypocrisy, lies, back dooring and money spent. Not to mentiont he war we were thrown into by some people who "had better things to do" (Dick Cheney) when their generation was fighting another unpopular war in Viet Nam...
Throw the bastards out, so we can have some new ones to hate.

[Tenchiro]

http://www.atheist-community.org/images/cartoon/2N121218JHy191215Q9eQ.jpg

Hah, I new I would find this again!

[DirtyDog]

http://www.atheist-community.org/images/cartoon/2N121218JHy191215Q9eQ.jpg

Hah, I new I would find this again!

I think that's pretty much the final word on the matter. Seriously.

[Silver]

This one fits in well with the stem cell discussion...all they need to do is mention the 30 other embryos that "died" so that the lady could squirt out a bunch of Jesus' little miracles...

http://www.freethunk.net/atheisteve/nationaldayofprayer.jpg

[Old Man G Funk]

Hmmm, I don't want to follow those excellent cartoons, but I found this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071801336.html?sub=AR) in the Post yesterday.

Yesterday's House debate on same-sex marriage was pure dead horse: The Senate last month rejected -- emphatically -- a constitutional amendment that would allow Congress to ban same-sex marriage, so there was zero chance the amendment could be approved this year. But members of the House were answering to a Higher Authority.

"It's part of God's plan for the future of mankind," explained Rep. John Carter (R-Tex.).

Rep. Bob Beauprez (R- Colo.) also found "the very hand of God" at work. "We best not be messing with His plan."

Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) agreed that "it wasn't our idea, it was God's."

"I think God has spoken very clearly on this issue," said Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.), a mustachioed gynecologist who served as one of the floor leaders yesterday. When somebody quarreled with this notion, Gingrey replied: "I refer the gentleman to the Holy Scriptures."
So, the "Holy Scriptures" are a point used in debate in the US House of Representatives now?

Here's another excerpt...
"Marriage is not about love," volunteered Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.), who noted his 31 years of matrimony. "It's about a love that can bear children."

"The world did not start with Adam and Steve," Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.) told reporters.

Gingrey, the floor leader/gynecologist, posited that the debate was "about values and how this great country represents them to the world." After the vote, he elaborated: "This is probably the best message we can give to the Middle East in regards to the trouble we are having over there right now."

So that was it: The marriage debate wasn't about amending the Constitution; it was about quieting Hezbollah.

[Changleen]

What a bunch of fvcking wankers.