Current issue of Decline complaint

[amydalayna]

Don't want to sound like a complainer, but here goes anyways...

i'm thumbing through the newest issue of Decline at the supermarket. There's a huge section of giving props to the amateur DH/DS/4x races at Sea Otter. They even list the top 5 for Beginner on up for those events... BUT FOR THE GUYS ONLY. what's that about?

[sanjuro]

You're probably just mad because they didn't mention your name...

[amydalayna]

You're probably just mad because they didn't mention your name...

don't you know it.

but i think most people would too. i think if they take the time to list the top 5 sport guys they could do it for the girls too.

As a whole, I think it's pretty cool to give recognition to the amateurs in the sport. But would it have been all that hard to squeeze in the names of some of the girls too?

[sanjuro]

Men Amateurs over Pro Women????

[bikegrrl]

don't you know it.

but i think most people would too. i think if they take the time to list the top 5 sport guys they could do it for the girls too.

As a whole, I think it's pretty cool to give recognition to the amateurs in the sport. But would it have been all that hard to squeeze in the names of some of the girls too?

Especially since so few women race DH! I was one of two women in all categories in my first DH race this weekend, and I rarely see more than four female racers at regional events.

[amydalayna]

sea otter was cool because there were *gasp*.... 13 girls in my class. i was excited because i never get to race that many girls. the last n* race last season there were 3 girls - 1 sport, 1 expert, 1 pro.

at least i put the issue of decline back on the shelf. i honestly would have bought it if they gave some props to the non-pro ladies.

[thePINKster]

I was one of two women in all categories in my first DH race this weekend.

i was the second...

ds/4x/dh

i'd have to say it's pretty darn hard for women to get in the press...

take a look at my situation. i raced in a pink mini skirt in all 3 events. in ALL mtn bike magazines that give a review of the weekend and give props to amateurs, i never saw me anywhere.

HOWEVER, you always see the slinky sram girls in ALL mtn bike magazines.

what does that tell ya?

[zoey]

I think you're on page 63 as part of the crowd. Now, doesn't that make you feel accomplished as a mtbiker? :P

[MudGrrl]

can somebody write an eloquent yet fierce letter?

[geargrrl]

sure. They might even publish it while laughing and rolling thier eyes. What, these magazines don't know that they ignore/marginalize women riders??

I've done it myself, writing publications about the same subject and I am convinced they just don't care enought to do something different. I'm sure $$ has something to do with it.

gg.

[MudGrrl]

if they perceive their readers to be guys, they're gonna sell to the guys......

if the chicks start writing in, it will at least raise awareness.

[dhchix]

I hate to say it but we are a small part of a sport dominated by men and we will never get the same amount of credit. It is disappointing but women DH'ers are few and far between.

[Fshflys]

I think it's gonna take younger girls (and more of them) interested in the sport. Look at the women pro's, Tracey Hanah's 18 & she's ripping it up. Most of the women pro's are well into their 20's and their fear factor is a higher priority than their skill sets (they ride like they don't want to get hurt, don't blame them). If they get into the sport at a younger age and develop their skill sets when they are a little less fearful, like the young boys do, then they'll be more of a factor. As a parent, I'd be a little skeptical about buying my daughter a high priced Dh rig (is that something little girls are really going to stick with?). Then again there's Stephanie, teaches high school, how cool would that be, hey, my teacher rides DH!

[dhchix]

I can relate to the fear factor because I have a full time job along with a part-time job, a husband, etc.... and the thoughts of juggling these things with broken bones is not appealing. I love to ride fast, do drops and jump but I do ride with some reserve. I wish I had known about DH while I was in my early 20's. Oh well, I will continue to ride my ride and have fun. Oh yeah, anyone going to Snowshoe July 22?

[bluebug32]

can somebody write an eloquent yet fierce letter?

Ooh, I know how to make an editor squirm...I do it every day!

[S.K.C.]

i was the second...

ds/4x/dh

i'd have to say it's pretty darn hard for women to get in the press...

take a look at my situation. i raced in a pink mini skirt in all 3 events. in ALL mtn bike magazines that give a review of the weekend and give props to amateurs, i never saw me anywhere.

HOWEVER, you always see the slinky sram girls in ALL mtn bike magazines.

what does that tell ya?


In spite of an ominpresent life-long struggle, some men loose the battle with their caveman underpinnings.

In other words: Men are pigs.

Being a guy who recognizes this, the oversight by Decline is a huge disservice to the ladies out there who rip it up on a regular basis.

I remember when I started snowboarding a REALLY long time ago the top ladies in the sport were treated similarly, but over time fought their way to the forefront. But please - don't wear things to get attention. Your riding will speak louder than any mini skirt. It's gonna take time to get your props ladies, but the day is coming.:)

[MudGrrl]

Ooh, I know how to make an editor squirm...I do it every day!


Make 'em squirm!!!!!

[thePINKster]

In spite of an ominpresent life-long struggle, some men loose the battle with their caveman underpinnings.

In other words: Men are pigs.

Being a guy who recognizes this, the oversight by Decline is a huge disservice to the ladies out there who rip it up on a regular basis.

I remember when I started snowboarding a REALLY long time ago the top ladies in the sport were treated similarly, but over time fought their way to the forefront. But please - don't wear things to get attention. Your riding will speak louder than any mini skirt. It's gonna take time to get your props ladies, but the day is coming.:)



i wasnt wearing a pink skirt for attention. i wore it as a joke w/ a good friend. it just ended up getting attention.

but the sram girls were annoying as hell. that was my complaint.

last year those girls knew nothing about bikes. i sat down to eat between practices and i over heard... "why are there so many bikes around? what do sea otters have to do with this?"
"hey i need to mnake more money, lets go to the club tonight"

and personally i'd rather not b around that bull.

if the sport is going to grow, it can use feminine help. it'll never get the feminine help if it uses them as sex objects.

.......... at least its not as bad as moto-x where the women are put in leather pants and tight shirts that dont hold the goods in, as intended

[weimie]

I totally agree with Fshflys....the younger girls are the ones who are going to push the bar on women's racing. They are getting exposed to the sport so much earlier and they are only going to get better and better.

Unfortunately there will always be girls like the SRAM chicks at events and in magazines that get more attention. But the attention they are getting isn't respect or admiration, the guys just want to get into their panties :rolleyes:

I'd rather have the respect of being a good rider.

[Fshflys]

Girls, one thing I did hear at Deer Valley were complaints from the pro riders about not getting clean runs at practice. I think NORBA should push women pros practice in with the Expert practice. Come on, lets be real, average women pro times were 4:20, slower than any of the mens expert average. I feel they should keep the race runs where they are, in between the semi's & the pros, they deserve that respect, but they are a hindrance during practice.

[VT Mtbkr]

Oh yeah, anyone going to Snowshoe July 22?

Yep I'll be there. Thursday night through Sunday.

[zoey]

In regards to racing dh, I don't think men are pigs. I've only gotten encouragement from the guys I've talked to.

Decline magazine knows it's market. However, it is a disservice to not include all athletes in the review of sea otter. I'll write a letter to the editor.

Pink minis/and skorts are hella comfy to ride in; and because hey, sometimes I want to be a girl.

And SRAM girls seem to be a reality, annoying, but not enough to get fussed over. However I do have to agree with one thing: what do sea otters have to do with bikes?

[amydalayna]

Pink minis/and skorts are hella comfy to ride in; and because hey, sometimes I want to be a girl.


but practical?

watching a chick crash in a mini skirt is almost amusing to me. like when you see the ladies in bikinis take a tumble in the snow on spring skiing days.

i ride in the longest shorts possible for skin coverage. i don't wear mini skirts while not on a bike... so i'm not going to ride them while on a bike.
i like to be a girl, but riding in a miniskirt doesn't seem all that practical to me (and neither is hitting up the spring snow in a bikini).

[dhchix]

Yep I'll be there. Thursday night through Sunday.

VT MTBKR, I'm going to Snowshoe for their second race. I was at the first one too. Of course, due to the weather (race cancellation) I did not get to race. I still had a lot of fun that weekend. Also, I noticed in one of the threads that you were at Massunutten as well. I was there and had a blast. I love the fire road at the bottom of the run. My husband and I will be getting into Snowshow Friday, July 21. Maybe I will see you there. I ride an Intense M3 (Blue).:)

[weimie]

Girls, one thing I did hear at Deer Valley were complaints from the pro riders about not getting clean runs at practice. I think NORBA should push women pros practice in with the Expert practice. Come on, lets be real, average women pro times were 4:20, slower than any of the mens expert average. I feel they should keep the race runs where they are, in between the semi's & the pros, they deserve that respect, but they are a hindrance during practice.

Maybe putting the pro women with the expert class is a good idea but being a hinderance during practice is a little harsh. It's PRACTICE!

Granted I'm only a sport rider but I do encounter people that are slower than me. I never think of them as a hinderance and that they are screwing up my practice run. But then again, if you're a pro rider there's more at stake especially in the mens class.

I don't know what the answer is but saying that women are a hinderance is another step backwards in the attempt to promote women in the sport.

[VT Mtbkr]

VT MTBKR, I'm going to Snowshoe for their second race. I was at the first one too. Of course, due to the weather (race cancellation) I did not get to race. I still had a lot of fun that weekend. Also, I noticed in one of the threads that you were at Massunutten as well. I was there and had a blast. I love the fire road at the bottom of the run. My husband and I will be getting into Snowshow Friday, July 21. Maybe I will see you there. I ride an Intense M3 (Blue).:)

Cool I saw you up there for the last race. We were at the top of the lift and you said Hey another female! I ride an army green Ironhorse SGS and will be up there with my BF who is making his first real DH voyage that weekend. That should be interesting. We didn't even go out on the mountain on Sunday for the last race, we just slept in and stayed warm. I'm just a beginner and the conditions were not my thing.

Massanutten was a great course, that would have been my first DH race if I hadn't of had a stupid wreck in practice and severely sprained my ankle.

[dhchix]

VT, I do remember saying that to you. I think it is awesome you and your BF are DH'ing. Snowshoe is a great place to learn and grow as a biker. Just wish I lived closer. I know the conditions were bad and I have issues (mentally) when it comes to riding in the mud but I'm glad I did it. By the end of the weekend I felt comfortable and was ready to rock. I'm preparing myself for the same conditions....mud, mud and more mud. Sorry to hear about the sprained ankle. I know things like that can be disappointing but it comes with the excitment of going fast. I know, I've had my share of over the bars and through the woods. Do you XC?

[VT Mtbkr]

VT, I do remember saying that to you. I think it is awesome you and your BF are DH'ing. Snowshoe is a great place to learn and grow as a biker. Just wish I lived closer. I know the conditions were bad and I have issues (mentally) when it comes to riding in the mud but I'm glad I did it. By the end of the weekend I felt comfortable and was ready to rock. I'm preparing myself for the same conditions....mud, mud and more mud. Sorry to hear about the sprained ankle. I know things like that can be disappointing but it comes with the excitment of going fast. I know, I've had my share of over the bars and through the woods. Do you XC?

I rode on Saturday and had tons of fun on the sport course and Powerline but my only run down the oh sooo muddy race course was right before they closed the mountain and I hated it. With my ankle still somewhat shaky I was really afraid of the areas I was having to walk/slide and didn't want to re-injure it by trying to ride on Sunday. I rode Wintergreen last weekend and had a blast on the 7 mile fireroad there. Crazy Fast! I've been riding XC for 7 years now. I'm having to miss the 3rd SS race because it falls on the same weekend as a local 18 hour race that I'm racing on a 4 girl team. So not happy about missing Monster Park! How far is SS from where you live? I'm about 3.5 hours, not too bad for a weekend trip.

[thePINKster]

Girls, one thing I did hear at Deer Valley were complaints from the pro riders about not getting clean runs at practice. I think NORBA should push women pros practice in with the Expert practice. Come on, lets be real, average women pro times were 4:20, slower than any of the mens expert average. I feel they should keep the race runs where they are, in between the semi's & the pros, they deserve that respect, but they are a hindrance during practice.

but were you really at the deer valley norba???

NO ONE got a clean run because someone was always hurt somewhere on the course. it had NOTHING to do with different classes hindering others. the course was just super gnarly.

and yes, its just practice

[thePINKster]

but practical?

watching a chick crash in a mini skirt is almost amusing to me. like when you see the ladies in bikinis take a tumble in the snow on spring skiing days.

i ride in the longest shorts possible for skin coverage. i don't wear mini skirts while not on a bike... so i'm not going to ride them while on a bike.
i like to be a girl, but riding in a miniskirt doesn't seem all that practical to me (and neither is hitting up the spring snow in a bikini).

i agree with zoey...

maybe one of the practical things about it is comfortability and maintaining a femininity. granted they dont have much skin coverage, but arent pads for reducing bruises and scars?

its all good, keep doing what you're doing, but dont snuff your nose at other people who have differences in opinion

[MudGrrl]

practicality and what we deem feminine generally don't go together...

I wouldn't wear a skirt while riding..... I end up on my ass too much, I would be showing the world what I've got.

[amydalayna]

practicality and what we deem feminine generally don't go together...

I wouldn't wear a skirt while riding..... I end up on my ass too much, I would be showing the world what I've got.

i agree. high heeled shoes = femine. practical? nope.

i wouldn't wear a skirt riding, also why i don't wear short shorts while riding. i crash. i like coverage. i've got enough scrapes and such. pads help, but i like a minimal gap between where the shorts end and my pads start.

i am also not looking for that sort of attention when i ride. i want people to notice me at races because i'm fast. not because i'm showing skin.

[thePINKster]

i agree. high heeled shoes = femine. practical? nope.

i wouldn't wear a skirt riding, also why i don't wear short shorts while riding. i crash. i like coverage. i've got enough scrapes and such. pads help, but i like a minimal gap between where the shorts end and my pads start.

i am also not looking for that sort of attention when i ride. i want people to notice me at races because i'm fast. not because i'm showing skin.

i wore one for fun w/ a friend...

i'm not trying to get attention for "showing skin". i'm just having fun while racing.

when i race i try not to get all hyped up into the competition. it's all about smiling and letting the rubber roll.

[zoey]

Sometimes I wear my terry skirt. Sometimes I wear my shorts. It's nice to have options. :) But I was talking about riding xc, not racing.

Not sure I would race downhill in a skirt, my dh abilities are sketchy. :/ But xc, or just a roll through the easy trails is different, or, god forbid, when I'm on my road bike. :P

[S.K.C.]

Zoey:
In regards to racing dh, I don't think men are pigs. I've only gotten encouragement from the guys I've talked to.


I'm a guy.

TRUST me.

Men are pigs (NOT speaking for myself, but let's face it - sometimes the place gets lousy with 'em... :D )

As for the SRAM girls, here's what I had to say about that from a previous post:


Man....

Well, I guess it was inevitable. Here comes the T&A PR parade.

Here at Penn State there is a girl that was a really good friend of mine who used to be in Playboy. She is NOT a girly-girl but really down to earth, and articulate - which makes her a relative anomaly in the context of being in Playboy. From what I have seen and know from hanging out with her, a lot of these girls you see doing promotions of one sort or another, are models for hire. Not like Ford Models, but not exactly strippers either... although some are from time to time. I went with my friend around campus one time, when she was recruiting for Playboy, and it's pretty random sometimes - you put up fliers, and see who shows up.

I'm not sure how I feel about it anymore - it was an interesting peek inside a world not a lot of people get to see, but I don't know... using some of the most base aspects of ourselves as a marketing tool (and in effect treating a person as an object, whether it is voluntary or not) bugs me. Would it kill a sports group to just ONCE, leave the T&A at the door?

Yeah, sex sells and I'm sure all the marketing guys at SRAM and SantaCruz aren't oblivious to that fact, but I don't really think that this type of marketing is helpful to our sport.

[Fshflys]

but were you really at the deer valley norba???
Yes I was there
NO ONE got a clean run because someone was always hurt somewhere on the course. it had NOTHING to do with different classes hindering others. the course was just super gnarly.

and yes, its just practice
The semi's & pro men were hitting a lot more consistently than the pro women were, plus they aren't as heavy on the brakes. Again, go compare run times... women were hanging the men up, I heard the complaints.

[DH Diva]

The semi's & pro men were hitting a lot more consistently than the pro women were, plus they aren't as heavy on the brakes. Again, go compare run times... women were hanging the men up, I heard the complaints.

I'm probably going to get flamed hardcore for this but, there are a small percentage of women out on the pro course that probably shouldn't be there. But, is it there fault? All pro upgrades are approved through USA Cycling. I think USA Cycling got into the habit of upgrading any woman who wanted to move to pro because the class was getting smaller and smaller and they wanted to fill it up, but they weren't really paying attention to how those women's times were comparing to the Pro class before they approved them. But, I don't think the majority of the female racers are holding the guys up. But you get a few that get in the way and it really fowls up practice. I was just at Sonoma, and there were certainly a couple girls that were even getting in the way of other female racers. I don't think splitting up practice is the answer. I think it's more of an issue now that practice times are have gotten shorter and there are fewer of them. There are more people on course during pro practice all trying to get their time in, and there's just too many people out there. When there was more practice, tensions weren't as high because people could space out and the slower riders could hit the course during times that weren't as popular with the faster factory riders.

[Fshflys]

But, I don't think the majority of the female racers are holding the guys up. But you get a few that get in the way and it really fowls up practice.
Womens times at Deer Valley (much more technical than Sonoma) were between 3:32 - 6:15, men pro was 2:49 - 3:28, fastest guy could have done 2 runs b4 the slowest rider finished. Semi's were between 3:08 & 3:47. Again, just practice in with experts, race with pro/semi.

[DH Diva]

Womens times at Deer Valley (much more technical than Sonoma) were between 3:32 - 6:15, men pro was 2:49 - 3:28, fastest guy could have done 2 runs b4 the slowest rider finished. Semi's were between 3:08 & 3:47. Again, just practice in with experts, race with pro/semi.

Actually, if you look at the qualifier results (which includes the entire pro men's field, the men's times ranged between 2:49-4:21) and I didn't count the guy that got an 8:21 either. If your comparing final times, you have to just look at the top half of the women's field because the qualifier gets ride of the bottom half of the men's field. Make sense? Again, if the pro field had the same amount of practice time it used to, it wouldn't matter because fewer people are on course at a time.

Again, I agree that sometimes some of the girls get in the way. I also don't think that some of those girls should have been allowed to move up in the first place.

I think one answer to this problem would be to create a semi-pro women's class. A number of women have tried to work with USA Cycling to accomplish this, but they don't want to hear it, they think it would be too much extra work.

And, I don't think it would be fair to the women who can hold there own out there to have to practice with the experts.

USA cycling needs to really make sure people are ready to move up before allowing upgrades into the pro class for the women.

[goodtobeIrie]

to each their own...and I wouldn't snub anyone for wearing a skirt...

but wearing skirts while racing brings the element of T & A to women's racing...and the magazines and sponsors already try to sell the women that ride for them...while the intention of wearing a skirt may be for fun...it does bring down the respect level of women and women's racing, regardless of the intention...what people will remember is the skirt you were wearing and the skin you were showing...not the riding skill you may have...

[amydalayna]

I agree with you. This is what we don't need in regards to women's racing: more T & A.

It's why I get annoyed when someone like Kote Driscoll get's signed to Chumba racing and all of the guys in the DH forum debate whether she's doable. The photo she released was not sexy. It was not another April Lawyer straddling a bike scantilly clothed. It was just a serious photo. But still, the guys just want to discuss whether she's hot or not.

And it's not just in mtn biking. I was on bmxonline.com when I came across: http://www.bmxonline.com/bmx/features/article/0,15737,1216187,00.html

We are starting a Hot Chick photo section and we need your help. The catch is the photos have to relate to BMX in some way: a beautiful girl wearing a BMX T-shirt, sitting on a bike, wearing a BMX hat, posing in front of dirt jumps, etc.—you get the idea. Guys, are you stoked on your girlfriend and want to make everyone else jealous? Now's your chance to make that happen. Send in those shots.


Ugh. They could care less about getting girls actually RIDING a bmx bike. Just maybe hanging out in a bikini in front of some jumps. prettly lame.

[DH Diva]

And it's not just in mtn biking. I was on bmxonline.com when I came across: http://www.bmxonline.com/bmx/features/article/0,15737,1216187,00.html




Ugh. They could care less about getting girls actually RIDING a bmx bike. Just maybe hanging out in a bikini in front of some jumps. prettly lame.

Ah! That makes me laugh and wanna puke all at the same time!! God forbid a girl can actually look good "riding" a bike. So instead of the "Hot Chicks" section why don't they just call it the "Pit *itch" section, because sheesh, us girls don't actually ride bike ever, we're just there to push them around the venue and sit on them and look cute. :confused:

[amydalayna]

and cheer. don't forget the cheering part. we're good at that too.

[DH Diva]

and cheer. don't forget the cheering part. we're good at that too.

Yes cheering too. And perhaps holding water bottles. We might be capable of that. Maybe.

[amydalayna]

i think water bottles might be pushing it. we'll be busy taking pictures and carrying a sparkly purse.

i'm pretty sure decline would have had a props to the female ams if there wer more females racing in something skimpy. with more body glitter.

[DH Diva]

i think water bottles might be pushing it. we'll be busy taking pictures and carrying a sparkly purse.

i'm pretty sure decline would have had a props to the female ams if there wer more females racing in something skimpy. with more body glitter.

Crap! I forgot about my sparkly purse.

Okay, side story. I actually had the unfortunate opportunity to run into the most horribly perfect example of this in sonoma last weekend. I was watching DH practice and waiting for my friend to come down when that guy got jacked and had to be air lifted. I was down at the finish and these two girls start to walk up the course with their cameras, sparkly purses, and white tube tops. I told them that the course was being cleared because they had to bring in life flight and no one could be on the course while the chopper was there. They both looked at me with blank stares and said, "but we wanna watch practice (gum smacking and all)," and proceeded up the hill. They got to the point where the medics had this poor guy with a broken pelvis back boarded and were told to get off the course immediately. As they walk by me on their way back down the conversation was something like, "like that was like totally gross," and "Yeah totally, and like why couldn't they just move him over so like the rest of the people could like come down," "Yeah, now we're like gonna have to walk like all the way back up later."

I really had to supress the urge to vomit on their sparkly white flip flops.

[luvz2ridez]

Hahahaha, I always love the girls at the courses watching their men with their arms folded across their chests, smacking their gum, completely bored with the most disgusted bored looks on their faces...like they have nothing better to do than to follow their men there and wait and wait and wait some more, GOD GET A LIFE!!! or a hobby of your own for that matter.

[weimie]

Were they like wearing those big white sunglasses that are way too huge for anyone's face? I think I've seen these girls before or the clones of these girls before....I think they're Junior X groupies.....


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b386/Evilredhead144/sunglasses.jpg

[biggins]

oh ithought you were gonna mention how every single picture i nthere looks the same.....

[Pat...]

Crap! I forgot about my sparkly purse.

Okay, side story. I actually had the unfortunate opportunity to run into the most horribly perfect example of this in sonoma last weekend. I was watching DH practice and waiting for my friend to come down when that guy got jacked and had to be air lifted. I was down at the finish and these two girls start to walk up the course with their cameras, sparkly purses, and white tube tops. I told them that the course was being cleared because they had to bring in life flight and no one could be on the course while the chopper was there. They both looked at me with blank stares and said, "but we wanna watch practice (gum smacking and all)," and proceeded up the hill. They got to the point where the medics had this poor guy with a broken pelvis back boarded and were told to get off the course immediately. As they walk by me on their way back down the conversation was something like, "like that was like totally gross," and "Yeah totally, and like why couldn't they just move him over so like the rest of the people could like come down," "Yeah, now we're like gonna have to walk like all the way back up later."

I really had to supress the urge to vomit on their sparkly white flip flops.

I can't even imagine that. :dead: .

[ChumbaJason]

Hello
My Name is Jason I am the sales mgr at Chumba Racing .
I could not agree with you more about the press overlooking the female race population. Whether DH or XC I think we need more coverage.
My wife and a couple of other girls in my area really kick butt .
I'm sure you all are really great riders too.
I will be setting up another grass roots race team soon. So if any of you are interested in making a difference shoot me a E mail at Jason@chumbaracing.com I will be looking at resumes and setting up a sponsor agreement.