Quick Double Barrel Review [Archive]

Tarpon

07-07-2006, 10:12 AM

I bought the shock back in May but have not been able to give it a real tryout, outside of XC'ish rides, until this past weekend. It replaces a 5th Element that came on my Knolly V-tach. My only non-platform shock experience was a Vanilla on an RM Switch.

Cane Creek (Malcolm) was good to deal with, they delivered on-time which is always a plus. The shock appears very well made. The default settings were close, a little more high speed rebound damping makes it close to perfect. The ride is much more supple than the 5th and there is not a lot of pedal bob, the linkage of the V-tach is pretty well tuned.

Last weekend was my first trip to Whistler this year, I was anxious to try out the new shock. I spent most of the time up on Garbonzo; Original Sin, Goats Gully, In Deep, Fatcrobat to Too Tight. The shock performed very well. The rear end stayed glued to the ground and the ride was smooth and controlled. I found myself riding much faster than I ever did last year, I'm glad I upgraded my brakes to Gustav's over the winter.

Overall, the Double Barrel is a great shock; a definate improvement over the 5th Element. My brother, who rides a V-tach as well, seems to agree; he ordered one yesterday after we swapped rides up on Original Sin.

jonnynails

07-07-2006, 10:51 AM

I've heard you need an engineering degree to tune one - any truth to that?? I just ordered one with a ti spring for my new Morewood Izimu. Should have it soon. Thanks for the review.

Tom Church

07-07-2006, 10:56 AM

Tarpon

07-07-2006, 11:17 AM

I've heard you need an engineering degree to tune one - any truth to that?? I just ordered one with a ti spring for my new Morewood Izimu. Should have it soon. Thanks for the review.

Tuning seems pretty simple so far. High speed rebound is obvious, tune it till you don't get "kicked". High speed compression you tune for bottom out. Low speed rebound and compression adjusted in/out in tandem to tweak small bump sensitivity or pedal bob.

SuspectDevice

07-07-2006, 11:18 AM

Jamie Ford (DH racer who is killing in out here in the North East) has blown up 4 of them this year alone. He loves it and says it is the best shock he has ever used but he is being forced to switch because he can't rely on them.

Tom

In Cane Creek's and Sinister's defense, I ride the same shock on the same bike (Sinister R9), and I've only had one issue with the double barrel. That issue was rectified in 3 days by CC, and it was due to an issue pertaining to rushing to get me the shock in the first place. Jamie is very, very fast, and very hard on equipment, and he has broken or rendered inoperable every shock he has ever owned on all of his previous bikes as well.

For mortal and less than fully insane Pro usage the Double Barrel is amazing, and the tunability is provides is a gigantic advantage.
It is not difficult to setup at all, as long as you understand what terms like low and high speed damping mean, and follow the included instructions.

Tom Church

07-07-2006, 11:44 AM

Yeah...he was breaking links on his old Canfield as well...I would love to hae one.

Tom

profro

07-07-2006, 11:46 AM

I'm fairly notorius foir braking stuff too (DH9, Kona Scab, Profile cranks, Fox rear shock, etc) and I haven't had any problem out of my CC so far. I've had mine since the new year, the entire Morewood team is on them and Chris Herndon has been on one for 2 years now and none of us has had any problem. Not to say that Jamie isn't killing them, cause nothing is unbreakable. But this shock is far more durable than the other offerings.

dhbuilder

07-07-2006, 12:03 PM

frznnomad

07-07-2006, 12:33 PM

thats awsome man im glad that you are enjoying the new shock. i got a chance to meet one of the main engineers a few days ago and he informed me that the most of the top pros are looking to cane creek to get the db. acctually he said that sam hill is looking to get his hands on one as well. well cant wait to get my new sunday now and then throw one of them on there. keep on enjoying man and i hope to join the train soon with the db shock.

General Lee

07-07-2006, 02:30 PM

Red Bull

07-07-2006, 03:20 PM

Not to say that Jamie isn't killing them, cause nothing is unbreakable. But this shock is far more durable than the other offerings.jamie is extremely hard on equiptment and he runs 50% sag i believe, so it doesent suprise me he broke it two more times since we've last spoke. i'm really hoping to use this as my next shock.

bizutch

07-07-2006, 05:00 PM

that made me laugh
His grammar sucks but he's not joking. Quite a few of the pro teams have been approaching them about striking a sponsorship deal for the shocks and Hill is interested in it. He's not making it up.

Sean is a very busy fella at Nationals.

DS Dom

07-07-2006, 05:07 PM

His grammar sucks but he's not joking. Quite a few of the pro teams have been approaching them about striking a sponsorship deal for the shocks and Hill is interested in it. He's not making it up.

Sean is a very busy fella at Nationals.

I have had a DB on my Sunday for over a month now, and im not really too impressed. It feels way over damped even with the settings backed out a lot. I know another rider felt the same way and went back to his DHX which may be what my next purchase is. I dont think its a flaw with the DB shock, i just don't think the standard DB has light enough damping to work correctly with the sunday.

frznnomad

07-07-2006, 07:34 PM

Tarpon

07-07-2006, 10:04 PM

I have had a DB on my Sunday for over a month now, and im not really too impressed. It feels way over damped even with the settings backed out a lot. I know another rider felt the same way and went back to his DHX which may be what my next purchase is. I dont think its a flaw with the DB shock, i just don't think the standard DB has light enough damping to work correctly with the sunday.

Stupid question, but have you talked to Cane Creek about it? It may need re-valving. I seem to recall a post by DW where he talked about the special valving needed for the 5th Element to work right with the DW Link.

DS Dom

07-07-2006, 10:08 PM

yeh sorry for the bad grammer not really my strong suite in school, and besides general lee its always good to make people laugh every now and again right.

ohh and ds doms if you could send me a pm or post it here what you didnt like about the setup besides it felt over dampend. thanks for the input cause well i really love the db.

We'll, it feeling over damped is what I don't like about it. I can push the shock down with 1 finger but when it gets on the trail it doesnt react fast enough and 'packs up'

DS Dom

07-07-2006, 10:09 PM

Stupid question, but have you talked to Cane Creek about it? It may need re-valving. I seem to recall a post by DW where he talked about the special valving needed for the 5th Element to work right with the DW Link.

When I talked to them the first time and ordered it they said they all come from the factory the same and you just use the adjustments to make it work for each bike. I'm not sayin its a bad shock, I just don't think its optimal for a sunday in its/my current setting.

frznnomad

07-07-2006, 11:17 PM

ds dom i mean i dont know what your adjustments are set to on your db, but im thinking that the db will be an excellent shock for the sunday. yes i know its not a platform shock and its deffinatly very well damped, but we had some of the cane creek engineers stop into epic cycles and acctually take measurments on my good friends sunday. so im thinking if the cc guys think that it will work maybee you should call them and give them your settings and see what they suggest i mean thats just me. good luck with it man.

A.P

07-08-2006, 12:46 AM

I rode the cane creek on mickeys bike for a run, and it feels really, really good. Definatley better then my dhx, or any other dhx ive ridden.

I wasnt expecting much at all, but it seriously kicked ass.

DS Dom

07-08-2006, 02:56 AM

[QUOTE=frznnomad]ds dom i mean i dont know what your adjustments are set to on your db, but im thinking that the db will be an excellent shock for the sunday. yes i know its not a platform shock and its deffinatly very well damped, but we had some of the cane creek engineers stop into epic cycles and acctually take measurments on my good friends sunday. so im thinking if the cc guys think that it will work maybee you should call them and give them your settings and see what they suggest i mean thats just me. good luck with it man.[/QUOTE

The measurements were likley just the shock spacing and all that stuff was good. I will probably give them a call but I have messed around with it a good amount and even with the high and low speed compression backed all the way out, a 250lb spring and moderate rebound settings, it still doesnt feel very 'great'

wil_e123

07-08-2006, 03:29 AM

i don't know how much you wiegh but a 250 pound spring sounds quite light? could that be the cause of it feeling over-damped?

DS Dom

07-08-2006, 06:32 PM

i don't know how much you wiegh but a 250 pound spring sounds quite light? could that be the cause of it feeling over-damped?

Typicall it could if i was compensating for the light spring by using the compression adjustments but in this case I played with adjustments all day and even with them backed all the way out it still felt this way. Then I took one run on a sunday equipped with a DHX that wasn't set up for me and it felt WAY better. Conclusion is that my DB will be for sale and I'll be buying a DHX.

Superdeft

07-08-2006, 06:40 PM

Typicall it could if i was compensating for the light spring by using the compression adjustments but in this case I played with adjustments all day and even with them backed all the way out it still felt this way. Then I took one run on a sunday equipped with a DHX that wasn't set up for me and it felt WAY better. Conclusion is that my DB will be for sale and I'll be buying a DHX.

I believe in another thread DW mentioned that the sunday requires about 1/3 the compression damping of a typical stock shock, so the range of your DB may not be sufficient to function properly with the sunday's design. Because the sunday is special in this respect, you may want to limit your shock choice to one valved for the frame (so in short you may run into the same problem with a non-sunday-specific DHX if you can't limit the compression damping enough. I may be wrong, but that comment by Dave was the first idea that popped into my head when I read your posts. I thought each DB was individually valved, but I might be wrong and the above may be the case.

frznnomad

07-08-2006, 07:05 PM

hmmm okay so it looks like i will be making a call to ironhorse. ohh and ds dom one more question how much do you way so i can bring a little bit more info with me when i go to ironhorse. thanks man and its looking like i might have to go with a dhx as well. ohh and sorry to derraile the thread i wasnt meaning too.

DS Dom

07-08-2006, 07:11 PM

I believe in another thread DW mentioned that the sunday requires about 1/3 the compression damping of a typical stock shock, so the range of your DB may not be sufficient to function properly with the sunday's design. Because the sunday is special in this respect, you may want to limit your shock choice to one valved for the frame (so in short you may run into the same problem with a non-sunday-specific DHX if you can't limit the compression damping enough. I may be wrong, but that comment by Dave was the first idea that popped into my head when I read your posts. I thought each DB was individually valved, but I might be wrong and the above may be the case.

This is basically what I was trying to say. I don't think the shock is bad in anyway at all. It just does not work very well on the sunday (many shocks faced the same problem when they were first released). When I ordered it I was very specific that it was for a Sunday and they assured me that they are valved the same regardless (this may be different or changing, but thats how it was when I bought it at the end of may).

To the other guy, I weigh in around 155 and like to run a good amount of sag

SKYWAYBUZZ

07-08-2006, 09:53 PM

More preload on that spring might livin the ride.

profro

07-09-2006, 08:21 AM

jamie is extremely hard on equiptment and he runs 50% sag i believe, so it doesent suprise me he broke it two more times since we've last spoke. i'm really hoping to use this as my next shock.

I too run about 50% sag. In addition to Jamie, the design of the Sinister may play a role as well.

SuspectDevice

07-09-2006, 10:10 AM

I too run about 50% sag. In addition to Jamie, the design of the Sinister may play a role as well.

It's mostly Jamie. He was breaking shocks on Canfields and Ellsworth's as well. Might have something to do with his passion for teh huxxs.

Yesterday after a local race in NH, he gapped 54 feet off of a 10" wide teeter-totter to a tiny little transition. That level of absolute nuttiness is not so kind to bike parts!

Frankenschwinn

07-09-2006, 11:00 AM

It's mostly Jamie. He was breaking shocks on Canfields and Ellsworth's as well. Might have something to do with his passion for teh huxxs.

Yesterday after a local race in NH, he gapped 54 feet off of a 10" wide teeter-totter to a tiny little transition. That level of absolute nuttiness is not so kind to bike parts!

Or bodies...

frznnomad

07-09-2006, 01:15 PM

okay thanks ds dom i need to get all of this sorted out before i decide to drop the big bucks on a frame and a shock. thanks for all your help man.

bizutch

07-10-2006, 02:06 AM

okay thanks ds dom i need to get all of this sorted out before i decide to drop the big bucks on a frame and a shock. thanks for all your help man.
2 things:
1. DS Dom - ship your DB back to Cane Creek and let them dyno it to see if there are any spikes in the damping curve as compared to when you got it. It might be something internal. I have seen a DB that a local pro said he could feel was packing up be put in the dyno and a spike showed on the graph exactly where he said he felt it....pretty cool. They took it apart, cleaned it and popped it back in the dyno and the spike was gone.

Your individual shock has the original stock curve saved in the database and they can see if the shock's damping characteristics have degraded. The dyno curve will show things even a rider can't tell are happening. It's better than giving up on it without knowing for certain. A DB "packing" up and being overdamped is VERY odd sounding and is usually only done by cranking the dampers too far in. Hope you try this last step.

2. Nomad, you're a tard. You live here in Asheville. If you buy it and think at some point it's not working for you, you'll be able to swing by the factory with bike in hand and let Paul and the guys help you. :clue:

thaflyinfatman

07-10-2006, 02:13 AM

2 things:
1. DS Dom - ship your DB back to Cane Creek and let them dyno it to see if there are any spikes in the damping curve as compared to when you got it. It might be something internal. I have seen a DB that a local pro said he could feel was packing up be put in the dyno and a spike showed on the graph exactly where he said he felt it....pretty cool. They took it apart, cleaned it and popped it back in the dyno and the spike was gone.

Your individual shock has the original stock curve saved in the database and they can see if the shock's damping characteristics have degraded. The dyno curve will show things even a rider can't tell are happening. It's better than giving up on it without knowing for certain. A DB "packing" up and being overdamped is VERY odd sounding and is usually only done by cranking the dampers too far in. Hope you try this last step.

On any damper, there is an inherent level of damping (both rebound and compression) for any given internal setup, which the adjusters only serve to fine-tune (even though they seem to make a big difference). DW has been quite clear that the Sundays require CONSIDERABLY less damping than most bikes (approximately 1/3rd) which means that even with the adjusters backed out all the way, the shock may simply still be overdamped for that bike. It's not a fault of the shock or a fault of the bike, it's simply an incompatibility between the magnitudes of the damper curve required by the frame and the damping curve that the shock actually puts out. I doubt that there is anything wrong with the shock (ie spiking), I'd say it would simply need lighter valving all round. And yes this is obviously only speculation from my end, but hopefully it will point you in the right direction either way.