Ullrich and Basso are out of the Tour.

[DRB]

Along with a stack of other riders.

Mancebo.

And it appears also that ASO is going to ignore the CAS and exclude Vino's team as well.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news2

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13559903/

[jacksonpt]

Is this for real???

Ullrich I don't care much about - he's the biggest disappointment in the tour over the last 3 years. Basso being out is big, and it will be a shame for him to miss out on what is likely his best chance at winning a tour.

On the bright side, with Basso out, will Rassmussen be CSC's horse?

[douglas]

holy crap!!


plus how can The Jan Crush souls if he's not even gonna race?

[DRB]

Is this for real???

Ullrich I don't care much about - he's the biggest disappointment in the tour over the last 3 years. Basso being out is big, and it will be a shame for him to miss out on what is likely his best chance at winning a tour.

On the bright side, with Basso out, will Rassmussen be CSC's horse?

Absolutely for real.

Rassumssen rides for Rabobank not CSC.

[jacksonpt]

Absolutely for real.

Rassumssen rides for Rabobank not CSC.
Was he CSC last year, or do I just have no idea what I'm talking about???

[Westy]

It is obvious to me that all the pro riders are on the dope. The tests obviously don't work against a highly technical doping program. They need to change the rules. The dope-heads are cheating and breaking the rules and should not be allowed to race, but that just means the unlucky dopers get caught and the next lucky doper steps up into the winning spot.

They just need to test hemocrit for a reasonable level, say 40% and just let everyone get to that 40% however they like. Because trust me, very few of these guys have natural hemocrit levels much higher than 40%. I wish they published the non-negative tests for these guys, I bet 99% of them come in with 'crit levels of 48-49%.

[DRB]

Was he CSC last year, or do I just have no idea what I'm talking about???

Rabobank last year as well......

BUT he is still very much a threat. That is if he can stay upright on the time trials.

[Westy]

Absolutely for real.

Rassumssen rides for Rabobank not CSC.


Go bobby julich! We could have another american win the tour during this "scab" year.

[DRB]

It is obvious to me that all the pro riders are on the dope. The tests obviously don't work against a highly technical doping program. They need to change the rules. The dope-heads are cheating and breaking the rules and should not be allowed to race, but that just means the unlucky dopers get caught and the next lucky doper steps up into the winning spot.

They just need to test hemocrit for a reasonable level, say 40% and just let everyone get to that 40% however they like.

What if you are naturally above 40%?

[Echo]

I see Cadel and Rasmussen duking it out... Evans will be faster in the TT's and Rasmussen will take him in the mountains... Sucks that the big boys won't be there but I still think it will be a good race.

[DRB]

I see Cadel and Rasmussen duking it out... Evans will be faster in the TT's and Rasmussen will take him in the mountains... Sucks that the big boys won't be there but I still think it will be a good race.

Plus Landis, Leipheimer, Hincapie, Valverde..... there is still plenty of firepower in the Tour to make it very very exciting.

[Ian F]

This may very well be the strangest Tour ever...

You almost have to wonder if Lance saw the writing on the wall that this would happen and said, "I don't need to deal with that..."

[Westy]

What if you are naturally above 40%?


Those 3 guys? They already have rules for special exceptions.

[Echo]

This may very well be the strangest Tour ever...

You almost have to wonder if Lance saw the writing on the wall that this would happen and said, "I don't need to deal with that..."
It's only a matter of time before L'equipe looks at the Puerto files and figures out a way to implicate Lance. :p

[DRB]

It's only a matter of time before L'equipe looks at the Puerto files and figures out a way to implicate Lance. :p

Oddly enough Lance won a preliminary hearing against a British newspaper for libel yesterday involving their accusations of doping.

[Westy]

No one can prove Lance was on the dope, but does anyone actually think he wasn't?

[McGRP01]

This is the biggest suck of the week. :(

[splat]

Beloki too!!!


WOW !

[The Toninator]

This may very well be the strangest Tour ever...

You almost have to wonder if Lance saw the writing on the wall that this would happen and said, "I don't need to deal with that..."
Olympics?? OH NONONONONO! - France Armstrong

[mogulskr]

And it appears also that ASO is going to ignore the CAS and exclude Vino's team as well.



So Vino is out then or can he switch teams. I would guess not.

[Wumpus]

They just need to test hemocrit for a reasonable level, say 40% and just let everyone get to that 40% however they like. Because trust me, very few of these guys have natural hemocrit levels much higher than 40%.

The normal ranges for hematocrit are dependent on age and, after adolescence, the sex of the individual. The normal ranges are:

*Newborns: 55-68%
*One (1) week of age: 47-65%
*One (1) month of age: 37-49%
*Three (3) months of age: 30-36%
*One (1) year of age: 29-41%
*Ten (10) years of age: 36-40%
*Adult males: 42-54%
*Adult women: 38-46%

http://www.medicinenet.com/hematocrit/article.htm

[LordOpie]

heheheheh

In the midst of all the doping scandals going on in the Tour, there is a certain irony about the return of David Millar to racing. After police searched his home in 2004, Millar admitted to using EPO to win the 2003 world time trial championships (among other races), and received a two year suspension that has just run its course. Millar said that he is now ready to race without doping, and called the events in Spain "fantastic news".

[GotMyGED]

Ullrich....I can understand. he has been such a huge disappointment over the past few years. He was probably under a huge amount of pressure to do well at any cost this year.

But Basso......is an idiot. He had everything set up for him. A great team, the best bikes the sport has ever seen, and the support of many of the fans. What an idiot.

I think they should strip him of his Giro win. He doesn't deserve anything.

[The Toninator]

Ullrich....I can understand. he has been such a huge disappointment over the past few years. He was probably under a huge amount of pressure to do well at any cost this year.

But Basso......is an idiot. He had everything set up for him. A great team, the best bikes the sport has ever seen, and the support of many of the fans. What an idiot.

I think they should strip him of his Giro win. He doesn't deserve anything.

easy there gun slinger, nothing has been proven yet. They dont even have his name on the 'paper work.'

[sanjuro]

dopers suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Heidi]

Wow, I'm just speechless

[sanjuro]

easy there gun slinger, nothing has been proven yet. They dont even have his name on the 'paper work.'
You're absolutely right. They must be innocent because they have no proof, and drug use is so rare in the peleton.

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/sports/othersports/30tour.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1151679704-5eRFqr2taxaAFqWWz+KA8w

Experts in the doping-control measures used by cycling and other sports say that since a urine test for EPO was devised by a French laboratory in 2000, many athletes whose tests seemed to indicate they made use of the banned drug have nevertheless been given a passing grade.

Don Catlin's role as the head of the drug testing laboratory at U.C.L.A., the only American site accredited by the World Anti-Doping Association, makes him an authority on doping by athletes. Catlin said his lab saw many EPO urine tests that indicated illegal doping by an athlete. He passes most of them, however, because the evidence is not, in his estimation, overwhelming.

"I don't call them because I know I will be faced with a phalanx of scientists and experts who are there to say I'm wrong," he said. "The false negative rate is very high."

Diagnostic tests that detect the illegal use of steroids, amphetamines and other substances banned in cycling and most other sports are relatively simple: a machine spits out the scientific equivalent of a plus or minus sign. The EPO test, in contrast, spits out a Rorschach blot, with results that must be interpreted by someone skilled in the art.

[Heidi]

Someone hit it on the button. I believe most of them are using, just not all getting caught.

[GotMyGED]

easy there gun slinger, nothing has been proven yet. They dont even have his name on the 'paper work.'

Sorry, I'm a basso fan myself.....just a little pissed off that something like this has happened.

[Heidi]

HAHAHAH - check out this quote by Jan's ex-trainer, ""e has an altitude chamber in his basement, that cost €120,000, so that he could train in a clean way, and he still manages to fall in with these rogues and betrayers. Who has been advising him, who has been taking care of him, since I'm not with him? He is actually old enough to know who he should trust. I simply don't want to believe it, it is incomprehensible."

Sounds like his mom!

[Heidi]

Check out the poll on Eurosport:

Your reaction to Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso's exclusion?
Number of votes : 2094
1. You cheat, you're out. Game over.
40%
2. Let them ride. Wait until they're formally convicted.
46%
3. Cancel the Tour.
15%


The evidence must be serious enough for the leaders to know that they are guilty. Or, is it really just the "code of ethics" that they are being suspended for? I think they evidence must be pretty straight forward.

I really can't work today.

[Ciaran]

Sorry, I'm a basso fan myself.....just a little pissed off that something like this has happened.
Pissed that he was doping or pissed that he got caught?

They are ALL doping. These guys just got caught.

So is cheating still cheating when everyone is cheating?

[Heidi]

Pissed that he was doping or pissed that he got caught?

They are ALL doping. These guys just got caught.

So is cheating still cheating when everyone is cheating?

Yes, I think so. It's just sad because they got caught yet you know others are doing it as well, just not getting caught!

[James]

Beloki too!!!


WOW !
That one breaks my heart...
I always had a soft spot for the little Spainard who could stay with Lance until the crash.
But it does look pretty damning for there to be a doping policy on the team. Here's hoping Vino can somehow make the tour...

[Heidi]

Tony, there goes your climber predictions in Beloki! Back to the drawing board.

[Transcend]

They just need to test hemocrit for a reasonable level, say 40% and just let everyone get to that 40% however they like. Because trust me, very few of these guys have natural hemocrit levels much higher than 40%. I wish they published the non-negative tests for these guys, I bet 99% of them come in with 'crit levels of 48-49%.

The problem is that 40% may be reasonable for you at sea level, but for a high caliber athlete living at altitude (take Boulder for example) it isn't reasonable. Some people have natually high hemtocrit levels anyways, and if you throw in altitude or an altitude tent and lots of training, they can have ridiculously high counts without any sauce.

[sanjuro]

Check out the poll on Eurosport:

Your reaction to Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso's exclusion?
Number of votes : 2094
1. You cheat, you're out. Game over.
40%
2. Let them ride. Wait until they're formally convicted.
46%
3. Cancel the Tour.
15%

The evidence must be serious enough for the leaders to know that they are guilty. Or, is it really just the "code of ethics" that they are being suspended for? I think they evidence must be pretty straight forward.

I really can't work today.
Good that you posted a Eurosport poll. I believe the American view towards drugs in cycling is much different than Europe's.

Actually, I think the American view towards doping in the "major sports" is about the same as Europe's, which is turn a blind eye when records are being shattered.

Us cyclists I think are more "sophisticated" fans, and I think we do have higher expectations for cheating and fair play than johhny football or jose futbol.

[Silver]

Those 3 guys? They already have rules for special exceptions.

I had a routine blood test before surgery last year and asked my doctor to check that box on the form (I don't know if they usually do or not.)

I was 42...and I'm not anything special.

[Heidi]

This whole thing sure makes the US look rosy though. I mean, our only guy on "the cheat list" we already caught two years ago and have punished. Ohhh if that was only the truth.

[golgiaparatus]

This whole thing sure makes the US look rosy though. I mean, our only guy on "the cheat list" we already caught two years ago and have punished. Ohhh if that was only the truth.

Yeah I'm sure the US has its OWN doctors that specialize in this stuff. No reason for our guys to go overseas the special sauce.

[sanjuro]

There was a great Outside magazine article about a middle-age athlete who gets on the full program: hgh, epo, testo. Great results too, but then he just "quits".

[Heidi]

There was a great Outside magazine article about a middle-age athlete who gets on the full program: hgh, epo, testo. Great results too, but then he just "quits".

Yep, I read that and loved that article. I'm pissed I threw the issue away when we moved. :redhot:

[I Are Baboon]

OLN needs to update their TdF banner ad:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/mtbbaboon/tdfad.jpg

[Ciaran]

Yes, I think so. It's just sad because they got caught yet you know others are doing it as well, just not getting caught!
I agree. It's really gotta suck to see your peers out there racing knowing that they are as guilty as you but they just didn't get caught.

Still chaps my hide that people cheat, but I guess that's human nature. (Especially when a few million bucks are concerned)

[Heidi]

So why should anyone watch the Tour this year at all now...???

Same reason they should have been watching it before.

[Heidi]

They aren't replacing Lance - they are going with 3-4 riders who can produce and after the first week they will see who shines the brightest.

[I Are Baboon]

So why should anyone watch the Tour this year at all now...???

Dude, it's wide open now. There are a bunch of different guys that can win. That makes it more interesting IMO. Still sucks that all those guys got the boot though.

[Heidi]

Friday Foamiing Rant:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10178.0.html

hahaha - Tyra Banks in a skinsuit!

[splat]

Latest Odds with the bookie now looks really interesting

* Alejandro Valverde (ILL) -7/2
* Alexandre Vinokourov (Wur) -7/2
* Levi Leipheimer (Ger) -7/1
* Floyd Landis (Pho) -7/1
* Cadel Evans (Dav) -10/1
* Yaroslav Popovych (Dis) -12/1
* Paolo Savoldelli (Dis) -20/1
* Andreas Kloden (T-M) -20/1
* Michael Rasmussen (Rab) -25/1
* Denis Menchov (Rab) -25/1
* George Hincapie (Dis) -25/1
* Iban Mayo (Eus) -25/1
* Jose Azevedo (Dis) -25/1
* Christophe Moreau (Ag2) -33/1

If they let him Ride I have been saying Vino since the spring !

[jacksonpt]

Yes, I think so. It's just sad because they got caught yet you know others are doing it as well, just not getting caught!
Bingo. It's not so much that they got caught, it's that so many others haven't gotten caught.

An equal playing field - that's what we're all shooting for here.

[splat]

Mancebo's Done !

Mancebo ends career

Francisco Mancebo, former leader of French team AG2R, will put an end to his career as of today. The rider's name is on the list of the Spanish doping investigation; he will not ride the Tour de France and his team suspended him.

"When I attended the team's meeting on Friday morning, I already knew what was waiting for me," said team manager Vincent Lavenu. "After breakfast I knew everything. Mancebo told me then: I'm gone, I'm stopping.

[Heidi]

But how can Vino ride without a team? Did I miss something?

[splat]

But how can Vino ride without a team? Did I miss something?

I know , this is all so Confussing ! Is he going to get another team ?

[The Toninator]

You're absolutely right. They must be innocent because they have no proof, and drug use is so rare in the peleton.

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/sports/othersports/30tour.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1151679704-5eRFqr2taxaAFqWWz+KA8w
People sure are passing a lot of judgments on me as well as the riders. I haven’t once said that they are innocent nor have I said they are guilty I’m just pointing out that there has been no mention of absolute evidence of blood doping for some specific riders. Even your article quotes drugs not blood but i have to admit i stopped reading when i hit the word EPO which is not what these guys are being accused of AND at best that's all it is at this point for some of the riders, an accusation.
If Lance was kicked off his team every time someone pointed their finger at him, he’d of never gotten off the start line.

[The Toninator]

Tony, there goes your climber predictions in Beloki! Back to the drawing board.
I actually figured he was blood and epo but i figured it was ok for him.

[The Toninator]

the org is not going to let vino start.

[Westy]

If there was EPO testing in 2000, he’d of never gotten off the start line.

Fixed:rofl:

[Heidi]

People sure are passing a lot of judgments on me as well as the riders. I haven’t once said that they are innocent nor have I said they are guilty I’m just pointing out that there has been no mention of absolute evidence of blood doping for some specific riders. Even your article quotes drugs not blood but i have to admit i stopped reading when i hit the word EPO which is not what these guys are being accused of AND at best that's all it is at this point for some of the riders, an accusation.
If Lance was kicked off his team every time someone pointed their finger at him, he’d of never gotten off the start line.

That's where I'm saying there is obviously something pretty damning inthe evidence the team directors saw to pull Basso. He claims it's because it would be too hard on Basso to try to defend himself, be hunted by journalists and photographers, and yet try to still ride and win. I call BS. No rider would throw away dreams of winning the TdF like that.

[The Toninator]

"Even though this will mean that many teams will be reduced in number - as excluded riders will not be replaced"

[splat]

That's where I'm saying there is obviously something pretty damning inthe evidence the team directors saw to pull Basso. He claims it's because it would be too hard on Basso to try to defend himself, be hunted by journalists and photographers, and yet try to still ride and win. I call BS. No rider would throw away dreams of winning the TdF like that.

I Agree completly , That amy Riders unless there is something pretty damming , they are not all going to just up quit. Especially since this is the Big one the TdF . Then Basso with a Chance to do a Giro/Tour Duo, be one of the few, No way would he just up and walk that easily.

[Jeremy R]

That's where I'm saying there is obviously something pretty damning inthe evidence the team directors saw to pull Basso. He claims it's because it would be too hard on Basso to try to defend himself, be hunted by journalists and photographers, and yet try to still ride and win. I call BS. No rider would throw away dreams of winning the TdF like that.

I agree. For Riis to pull Basso out, he would have to have been guilty as hell according to the evidence.
I am a huge tour fan and this $hit is just heartbreaking to me.
I could not wait for an Ullrich, Basso dual this year.
Damn.
The French are really gonna hate it if another American wins their race year. Landis, Leipheimer, Hincapie, that would be sweet,
but regardless this is gonna suck, and is just horrific for cycling.

[The Toninator]

riis is a p$$$$y

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=/features/2006/pre_tdf_csc

[Wumpus]

Speedgoat (http://speedgoat.com/) is running a special today:


http://speedgoat.com/images/sidi-shoes-2.jpg

[Heidi]

$319!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DRB]

I'm just going to watch it.

[The Toninator]

Well you just do that then.

[kidwoo]

He will.

[DBR X6 RIDER]

So why should anyone watch the Tour this year at all now...???
To watch two Americans duking it out for the top spot on the podium and to see how the fans react to all of this. Otherwise, it's just going to be a full-on soap-opera on wheels.

I must admit I was shocked that Armstrong's name wasn't mentioned...or maybe they're saving the best for last?:think:

[splat]

I'm just going to watch it.
:stupid:

[MtnBikerChk]

Actually, I think the American view towards doping in the "major sports" is about the same as Europe's, which is turn a blind eye when records are being shattered.



BRING ON THE ASTERISK!

[jackalope]

I wonder if they can make an asterisk look sorta like a needle?


And it seems like these guys can get rid of that silly zebra and get a real spokeman...

http://www.wrigley.com/wrigley/images/products/side_juicyfruit.jpg

[DBR X6 RIDER]

I forgot to mention that the sport of cycling will never die.

Racing, on the other hand, is in serious critical condition. If this doesn't get things cleaned up then nothing will. This is easily the make-or-break situation that racing has been heading towards.

[GotMyGED]

I hope they kick so many riders out of the tour that they end up with a bunch of crappy riders who bonk before the top of the first climb.

[Jeremy R]

Vino's out.
The Wurth team left because they did not have the minimum number of riders to even start.:dead:
Boo.

[James]

$319!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have 7 pairs sitting next to me here...:)
Too bad none of them are my size.

[The Toninator]

Astana-Würth leaves the Tour
Dutch television's sports anchorman Mart Smeets has just reported that the Astana-Würth team has left the Tour de France. The team had five of its Tour riders officially named in the Operacion Puerto affair (Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki), as well as several others (Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Angel Vicioso, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche), and of course ex-team manager Manolo Saiz. The team therefore wouldn't have had enough riders to start.

In an official statement, Active Bay, the team's management company, confirmed the news. "In view of the content of the dossier sent to Spanish authorities, Active Bay has decided, in accordance with the Ethical Code signed between the UCI ProTour's teams, to withdraw from the Tour de France those riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier.

"This decision is adopted without prejudice of the respect to the right to the presumption of innocence of these riders and of that Active Bay will exercise the actions for the defence of its rights and those of its workers. This measure does not concern the team's riders of the Tour de France that are not included in the dossier: Alexander Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Carlos Barredo and Luis León Sanchez. Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier implies that the Tour of France team will not have the minimum number of riders demanded by the UCI rules, which means the team will not be able to take the start tomorrow morning in the Tour de France."

The organisers of the Tour, ASO, were already determined to refuse to allow Astana-Würth to start, despite a ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport that said it could.

[The Toninator]

I have 7 pairs sitting next to me here...:)
Too bad none of them are my size.
i'll give you a crisp fiver for a 43

[scottjustscott]

6 word for you all:
Floyd Landis
Floyd Landis
Floyd Landis

Hincapie second if Trek manages to build him a bike that can hold up.

[The Toninator]

azevado owns the disco's.

[Muuqi]

6 word for you all:
Floyd Landis
Floyd Landis
Floyd Landis

Hincapie second if Trek manages to build him a bike that can hold up.

Darn those flimsy aluminum steer tubes. . .

[The Toninator]

it's the bastard metal.

[Mike Stone]

Don't be mean to Trek because they made one mistake.

I find it incomprehensible that the top riders like Ulrich and Basso would do something like this, when their every moves are being followed and they are subject to random tests at any time of the day or night. I can see the lower level riders, who are struggling to hang, taking a chance that they might not get caught.

What does this say about the Giro and the effectiveness of testing done on these same riders during this event?

Apparently the evidence is quite damning. It sounds like the Spanish authorities did an excellent job by identifying the kingpin, Dr Fuentes, and then seizing his records. The spokesperson for the T-Mobile team indicated that the evidence and documents provided to them leave virtually no doubt.

I don't like it when people say "everybody is doing it." But when this many top riders are linked to just one doctor, it makes it easier to make that case.

[The Toninator]

there's no test for extra blood. it's fool proof :) unless somebody keeps a record OR some dumbass get's somebody elses blood coughcoughtylerhameltoncoughcough

[sanjuro]

the article where the writer dopes himself:

http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

[Westy]

They should just use the Bonds excuse and say they thought they were getting massive vitamin transfusions.

[Zutroy]

Vino being out means Levi is the top returner.

[Heidi]

I have 7 pairs sitting next to me here...:)
Too bad none of them are my size.

Throw some 41's my way.

[DBR X6 RIDER]

What's amazing to me is that this all evolved from a single doping ring. Odds are there's at least 3-5 more of these types of operations going on as they sort thru this current one. There's probably a sh*tload of nervous dopers in those groups.

I'm sure David Millar is pleased about the whole affair...he was about to be cast into the spotlight after his 2 year ban. Now he'll practically fly under the media radar the entire 3 weeks.

[Jeremy R]

Don't be mean to Trek because they made one mistake.


Someone has forgotten the Y bikes. :clue: :)

[Jeremy R]

I'm sure David Millar is pleased about the whole affair...he was about to be cast into the spotlight after his 2 year ban. Now he'll practically fly under the media radar the entire 3 weeks.

Yep, say what you want to about Millar but at least he fessed up.
He said straight up, yeah, I took EPO and I am ashamed, and I will continue to be ashamed for the rest of my life.
That sounds alot better than:
Oh, umm, I didn't dope, it was my umm TWIN.
Yeah, that's right, thats the ticket!

[Heidi]

hahaha

http://i.eurosport.com/2006/06/30/292257-1230137-317-238.jpg

[James]

Throw some 41's my way.
Oooh, I just sent out the last 41 I had. Too bad so sad.

Am I the only one thinking that if Jan was doping, maybe he shoulda upped his dosage? I mean, does chocolate cake count as doping?

[blue]

Retired/suspended riders: Roberto Heras, Angel Casero, Santiago Perez, Tyler Hamilton

bahahaha.

Now, if only Zabriskie could get climbing down...

[CBJ]

I am pissed.