Guns don't kill people...

[sanjuro]

Virginia Police Say Gunman Was Targeting Them
By MARIA NEWMAN

The police in Fairfax, Va., said today that the teenager who opened fire outside one of their police stations on Monday, killing one detective and injuring two others, had recently been arrested on carjacking charges and was on a mission to hurt police officers.

The young man, identified as Michael W. Kennedy, 18, of nearby Centreville, Va., was heavily armed when he entered the parking lot of the Sully District Police Station in western Fairfax and began firing, the police said today.

He died in the exchange of gunfire with the police, law enforcement officials said at a televised news briefing this morning.

"He was very determined and he was intently targeting police officers when he went to that police station and he opened fire on police officers," saidMaj. Bob Callahan, commander of the Police Department's criminal investigations bureau. "I don't think there was any hesitation yesterday of what his intent was."

The detective who died in the gunfire, Vicky O. Armel, 40, was a nine-year veteran of the department whose husband is also a detective. It was the first fatal shooting of a Fairfax officer in the line of duty in the department's history.

Another officer, whose name has not yet been released, was also shot and was reported in critical condition today after undergoing surgery at Inova Fairfax Hospital, officials said. The third officer was treated for minor injuries.

"I ask your forbearance," Police Chief David Rohrer said, his voice breaking. "This is a very difficult investigation for us. It's a complex investigation."

Major Callahan said the gunman, who had at least five pistols, an AK-47 rifle and a high-powered hunting rifle and two handguns, fired at least 70 rounds, but the department is still trying to determine how many shots the officers fired back at him.

According to police accounts, the harrowing episode on Monday began at about 3:30 p.m., when Mr. Kennedy entered the parking lot after driving to the station in a stolen vehicle.

He crouched between two vehicles and began firing, the police said, and three officers who were there at the time began firing back. Others soon joined them.

Major Callahan said the gunman seemed to be firing indiscriminately.

"It looks to us that he was just looking in that parking lot for as many victims as he could find," he said.

Major Callahan said that in the exchange of gunfire, a driver in a passing car was also hit. "He suffered a minor injury, probably from glass breakage," he said.

Even after Mr. Kennedy was shot, the police closed off the area to traffic as they tried to determine if there were other shooters involved in the rampage. Helicopters flew overhead and nearby schools were locked down.

"We are very confident at this point that it was a lone gunman," Chief Rohrer said today. "This action was not an incident for the public to be concerned about. He was targeting police officers at the Sully station."

As the investigation continues, Major Callahan said investigators are interested in talking with Mr. Kennedy's parents but have been unable to reach them.

"We would ask you to ask them to please contact us," he told reporters. "We feel confident that they're aware of what happened and we need to talk to them."

Mr. Kennedy was arrested by the Fairfax police on April 18 on a warrant issued in Montgomery County, Md., where he was charged in connection with a carjacking. According to The Washington Post, Mr. Kennedy was released from the Montgomery jail about two weeks ago after posting a $33,000 bond.

Major Callahan said at the news conference today that the department had not yet determined if Detective Armel knew Mr. Kennedy. But he said that Mr. Kennedy had had "prior communications" with the station before Monday, possibly meaning that he might have made threats before.

"We're trying to determine is she had had some contact with him. We don't know at this time," he said.

[BurlyShirley]

Fertilizer would have been much more effective then guns. You dont hear people whining about chicken ****.

[fluff]

Fertilizer would have been much more effective then guns. You dont hear people whining about chicken ****.
'Cept you.

[sanjuro]

I noticed none of the usual 2nd Amendment monkeys have anything to say...

[alwaysbroncin19]

I noticed none of the usual 2nd Amendment monkeys have anything to say...

That's because we work until five or six. It's simple really, the difference between this f-ing guy and I..... "law abiding citizen." I'm sure you've heard that phrase before. Do you REALLY think this dingleberry wouldn't have had access to guns with more gun laws??? I HONESTLY don't. Needless to say, we won't have to worry about him doing this again, and that's enforcement. Sad to hear about the officers though. RIP

[blue]

18 year old raids card-carrying NRA dad's gun safe...whoopdeedoo. Welcome to America. :rolleyes:

[Changleen]

Do you REALLY think this dingleberry wouldn't have had access to guns with more gun laws??? I HONESTLY don't. five pistols, an AK-47 rifle and a high-powered hunting rifle and two handgunsO-Kaaaayyy.

[mr_dove]

Guns are good. If wackos can't get guns then they'll build bombs, which is surprisingly easy, and bombs will kill a WHOLE lot more people not to mention blowing them up while the bad guy sits accross the street and watches in safety.

A bad guy recently attacked a local law firm with molotov cocktails. He was old and slow though so he got caught and nobody got hurt.

[LordOpie]

when three year olds can pull a trigger and kill someone -- without intent or even concept of thier actions -- yes, guns do kill.

That said, I'm not interested in a gun-free society unless it means absolutely zero guns in existence, even for the military. So, that won't happen.

[noname]

when three year olds can pull a trigger and kill someone -- without intent or even concept of thier actions -- yes, guns do kill.

That said, I'm not interested in a gun-free society unless it means absolutely zero guns in existence, even for the military. So, that won't happen.
:stupid:
My heart goes out to the fallen officer, but I still don't believe that it should effect the 2nd amendment.
Gun ownership is a right.
"Collective rights theorists argue that addition of the subordinate clause qualifies the rest of the amendment by placing a limitation on the people's right to bear arms. However, if the amendment truly meant what collective rights advocates propose, then the text would read "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the States to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." However, that is not what the framers of the amendment drafted. The plain language of the amendment, without attenuate inferences therefrom, shows that the function of the subordinate clause was not to qualify the right, but instead to show why it must be protected. The right exists independent of the existence of the militia. If this right were not protected, the existence of the militia, and consequently the security of the state, would be jeopardized." (U.S. v. Emerson, 46 F.Supp.2d 598 (N.D.Tex. 1999))
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

[blue]

What I don't understand is the selective defense of the Consitution by the far right...

The Second Amendment is antiquated and should be eliminated by another amendment. But the US is full of morons. So it will never happen. Damn.

[noname]

What I don't understand is the selective defense of the Consitution by the far right...

The Second Amendment is antiquated and should be eliminated by another amendment. But the US is full of morons. So it will never happen. Damn.
just like that first one huh? Antiquated.

[blue]

just like that first one huh? Antiquated.

Oh yeah, totally. Can we start with you?

[noname]

Oh yeah, totally. Can we start with you?
mmm, tasty.

[LordOpie]

mmm, tasty.
I'm not a big fan of herring.

[bigdrop05]

Everyone will be safe after 2006 !!!

[noname]

Everyone will be safe after 2006 !!!
Why would that be? It's not like I'm going anywhere.

[Changleen]

Why would that be? It's not like I'm going anywhere.Because, with any luck the Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in the mid-terms. Bush will have less power and the world will be a safer place.

[noname]

Because, with any luck the Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in the mid-terms. Bush will have less power and the world will be a safer place.
I'm hoping more for gridlock. Just enough on each side that all they can do is bicker all day and get nothing done. The less they do the better.

[ohio]

I'm hoping more for gridlock. Just enough on each side that all they can do is bicker all day and get nothing done. The less they do the better.
Agreed. We would be in better shape if the country had been run by monkeys in comas for the last 6 years.

What's the opposite of the Midas touch? The one where everything you touch turns to ****?

[llkoolkeg]

What I don't understand is the selective defense of the Consitution by the far right...

The Second Amendment is antiquated and should be eliminated by another amendment. But the US is full of morons. So it will never happen. Damn.

Are you a member of the "far right"? Ironically, you appear to be selectively picking and choosing which amendments you like with your very next sentance!?!

I am unable to contradict your third sentance as you present an ironclad case with both it and the fourth.

[Silver]

What's the opposite of the Midas touch? The one where everything you touch turns to ****?

I like to call it "The N8 Fondle"

[gemini123]

bullet control seems like the right thing. Everyone has the right to own a gun, but if the bullets cost 500 bucks each, your gonna have to be dedicated.

[ukjason]

i find this realy disturbing an 18 year old kid shooting at the police.

jason

[uneasy_rider]

my guns have still killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car

[Changleen]

my guns have still killed less people than Ted Kennedy's carI remember when that was funny... I must be getting old.

[Transcend]

Everyone will be safe after 2006 !!!

Oh how is that? Are the millions of people Bush managed to piss off and demonize just going to simply evaporate?

I don't think so. The USA will be thanking BUSH for years of militant anti US sentiment the world over.

[1000-Oaks]

How ironic that some folks say "the world hates the US because of Bush."

Let's go over what extremist Muslims hate about the US, and why our very existance is an offense to their God:

- Free (immoral) speech
- Woman freely expose their bodies
- Women have the right to vote and equal rights
- Acceptance of homosexuality
- Low or no morals across the board (in their opinion)
- Etc....


Now, if the US were truly controlled by Bush and the extreme religious right, theoretically we wouldn't have any of the above "freedoms" and extremist Muslims wouldn't have much of an issue with the US. But in fact the far right doesn't have much influence at all and the country is exceedingly liberal - thus greatly increasing ill will toward the US from extremist Muslims.

So let's cut the BS and tell it how it is. I think Bush is a bumbling idiot too, and I'm atheist, and I have gay friends, and my long-term girlfriend is black. So don't give me any crap about being a closed-minded white guy just because many of my opinions conflict with popular left-wing views, thank you very much.

Are there a lot of counties that hate Bush and the US? Yep, plenty. But they hated the US long before Bush took a stand, and unless the US aligns it's "morals" with those countries that's never going to change.

[Transcend]

I'm not gonna disagree, sure plenty of the world hated the US to begin with. But it was fermenting under the surface.

With Bush being completely incompetent, he has managed to piss off the REST of the world. He has invaded a sovereign country without provocation or cause and is now threatening another (possibly with cause). He throws people in a prison, on an island, off of US soil, without due process simply for their religious beliefs or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He has, practically, the entire world's Muslim population up in arms and ready to attack the US. He certainly didn't make things any better and he really did make things worse. He has pissed off numerous allies to boot.

No one can truthfully say that this adminsitration is the root of all the anti US sentiment...it has been going on forever. No one likes a bully though, and this administration has turned the lone superpower into the worlds most well armed bully.

Some people are just never going to get along, that's a given. Some people have screwed up beliefs, that's also a given. Dubya hasn't only caused strife abroad though, he has even managed to piss off about 70% of his own pupulation who think he is doing a miserable job. He is now taking away some of the very rights the US populace seem to hold dear (privacy in your own homes for example). He dropped the ball, big time.

[Silver]

I'm not gonna disagree, sure plenty of the world hated the US to begin with. But it was fermenting under the surface.


That doesn't even take into account the unprecendented goodwill the US had on September 12, 2001.

Pissing that away as fast as Bush did is a monumental achievement.

[fluff]

Whilst the Islamic world may disapprove of the moral values of the West it is the fact that we keep attempting to force our desires and morality on them that really causes problems. Prior to the US getting involved in the Middle East they were seen as a beacon of fairness and justice (unlike the Europeans).

So it is down to aggressive, imperialist actions that the US is hated by so many.

[Changleen]

How ironic that some folks say "the world hates the US because of Bush."

Let's go over what extremist Muslims hate about the US, and why our very existance is an offense to their God:

- Free (immoral) speech
- Woman freely expose their bodies
- Women have the right to vote and equal rights
- Acceptance of homosexuality
- Low or no morals across the board (in their opinion)
- Etc....


Now, if the US were truly controlled by Bush and the extreme religious right, theoretically we wouldn't have any of the above "freedoms" and extremist Muslims wouldn't have much of an issue with the US. But in fact the far right doesn't have much influence at all and the country is exceedingly liberal - thus greatly increasing ill will toward the US from extremist Muslims.

So let's cut the BS and tell it how it is. I think Bush is a bumbling idiot too, and I'm atheist, and I have gay friends, and my long-term girlfriend is black. So don't give me any crap about being a closed-minded white guy just because many of my opinions conflict with popular left-wing views, thank you very much.OK Fine.

Are there a lot of counties that hate Bush and the US? Yep, plenty. But they hated the US long before Bush took a stand, and unless the US aligns it's "morals" with those countries that's never going to change.Sorry, you're wrong, and seem to be seriously underestimating the negative impact Bush has had on your reputation.

[The Amish]

I remember when that was funny... I must be getting old.

Saw pics of you dirt jumpin, your still hangin in there:thumb:

[valve bouncer]

my guns have still killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car
Or even Laura Bush's car.

[alwaysbroncin19]

That doesn't even take into account the unprecendented goodwill the US had on September 12, 2001.

Pissing that away as fast as Bush did is a monumental achievement.

That's comedy! California and New Orleans will prove to be on the same course.

[uneasy_rider]

I remember when that was funny... I must be getting old.


In this context it wasn't meant to be funny. Its just a simple fact.

cars don't kill people, the drunk dumbasses behind the wheel do.

[The Amish]

Whilst the Islamic world may disapprove of the moral values of the West it is the fact that we keep attempting to force our desires and morality on them that really causes problems. Prior to the US getting involved in the Middle East they were seen as a beacon of fairness and justice (unlike the Europeans).

So it is down to aggressive, imperialist actions that the US is hated by so many.

If by fairness and justice you mean burying people up to their necks in sand and then stoning them to death, then you are correct

[fluff]

If by fairness and justice you mean burying people up to their necks in sand and then stoning them to death, then you are correct
Eh? Does your post relate to mine in any way other than you used a couple of the same words?

[1000-Oaks]

OK Fine.

Sorry, you're wrong, and seem to be seriously underestimating the negative impact Bush has had on your reputation.


So we agree that extremist Muslims hate the US because of most of our "liberal" tendancies. So logically, if the US hadn't become so liberal over the last forty years, we wouldn't have this massive conflict and Bush wouldn't have had any reason to go into other countries. So it still isn't Bush; it's still our culture that's the cause of the problem.

So rather than whine about Bush, what are we doing about our offensive immorality? Nothing. And groups like the ACLU are fighting to make it even worse.

[Silver]

So we agree that extremist Muslims hate the US because of most of our "liberal" tendancies.

That's really an abusurdly reductionist argument for an issue that's a wee bit more complicated...

[ohio]

Let's go over what extremist Muslims hate about the US, and why our very existance is an offense to their God

There's a big difference between "despising what we stand for" and "mobilizing a worldwide network of tens of thousands of terrorists willing to die to destroy us." We can thank Bush for the latter.

We went from being an "insidious threat, slowly encroaching on Muslim culture" to being a "direct threat, willing to use the full force of our army to destroy Islam."

[ohio]

So we agree that extremist Muslims hate the US because of most of our "liberal" tendancies.

I didn't see anyone flying planes into Stockholm's skyscrapers.

[Changleen]

I didn't see anyone flying planes into Stockholm's skyscrapers.Ah, but what did you really see anyway? :D

j/k

[Changleen]

So we agree that extremist Muslims hate the US because of most of our "liberal" tendancies. So logically, if the US hadn't become so liberal over the last forty years, we wouldn't have this massive conflict and Bush wouldn't have had any reason to go into other countries. So it still isn't Bush; it's still our culture that's the cause of the problem.Dude, like Silver said you are being overly reductionist. I think someone else said (and it is true) the US was largely well regarded by the general populations of most Muslim and Asian nations before 2001.

And if you are still trying to defocus the current hatred of the US away from Bush and what he has done, you're simply on the wrong track. I promise you. I live 'out there' and I travel. People HATE Bush, and some people by extension hate America as a whole because of that, especially when 50% of you re-elect the fvckwit.

The rest of the world sees Bush as follows:

An aggressive, imperialist war monger who is mainly interested in protecting US oil interests over all other factors.

We see he has started 2 wars, one with zero justification - seriously most people see Iraq as a naked act of illegal aggression, we see the lack of care for our shared environment, we see one sided 'free trade' agreements, we see our ideas and wants being ignored. We see any criticism we make rubbished.

Basically we see an idiot in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, making stupid descisions that affect everyone in a negative way, and we see a huge portion of the American public standing behind those ideas.

[Secret Squirrel]

Dude, like Silver said you are being overly reductionist. I think someone else said (and it is true) the US was largely well regarded by the general populations of most Muslim and Asian nations before 2001.

And if you are still trying to defocus the current hatred of the US away from Bush and what he has done, you're simply on the wrong track. I promise you. I live 'out there' and I travel. People HATE Bush, and some people by extension hate America as a whole because of that, especially when 50% of you re-elect the fvckwit.

The rest of the world sees Bush as follows:

An aggressive, imperialist war monger who is mainly interested in protecting US oil interests over all other factors.

We see he has started 2 wars, one with zero justification - seriously most people see Iraq as a naked act of illegal aggression, we see the lack of care for our shared environment, we see one sided 'free trade' agreements, we see our ideas and wants being ignored. We see any criticism we make rubbished.

Basically we see an idiot in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, making stupid descisions that affect everyone in a negative way, and we see a huge portion of the American public standing behind those ideas.
I'm going on record here and now that "I did not have sexual relat..." no wait....wrong presidency..."I did not vote for that fvckwit"

Now when the US reaps the whirlwind of global fury, I can sit back with a clear conscience.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[1000-Oaks]

The rest of the world sees Bush as follows:

An aggressive, imperialist war monger who is mainly interested in protecting US oil interests over all other factors.



Regardless of what "the world" (well, the anti-Bush folks anyway) considers Bush, obviously US oil interests are not the primarly factor. How many times have we heard the tired "blood of US soldiers for oil"? It's just as overused as "guns don't kill people, people kill people" line.

If it were actually true we'd have cheap gas, wouldn't we? But in fact that Presidents of last two Iraq wars have been so paranoid that someone would "prove" that the war was for oil the US has gone to great lengths to make sure that wasn't / isn't the case.

Heck, for all the crap the US gets for these two wars maybe we should go get some oil - kind of like your girlfriend constantly telling you she thinks you're cheating (when you're not), then you finally go out and actually cheat because you've already been excessively punished for it.

[Silver]

Don't confuse strategic control of resources with the price of gasoline at the pumps. They aren't the same thing. Also, note that US oil interests and the interests of US consumers of oil also don't need to be the same...

[The Amish]

Eh? Does your post relate to mine in any way other than you used a couple of the same words?

MY bad, so used to you pissing all over america I completly misread your post

[fluff]

MY bad, so used to you pissing all over america I completly misread your post
You must have me confused with someone else.

There are many good things about America, the current adminstration's foreign policy and supremacist attitude are not amongst them. In fact I see Bush & Co doing their damnedest to damage many of the good things that the USA stood for. Whilst I do not expect a nation's govt to display outright philanthropism anyone who desires to set themselves as beacons of morality, tolerance, freedom, democracy, fairness and honesty needs to do a damn site better than this lot.

[Old Man G Funk]

MY bad, so used to you pissing all over america I completly misread your post
Pissing all over Bush is not the same as pissing all over America.