Sugar Mtn - All New DH Course-details

[bizutch]

OK. So last fall I went to Sugar in the fall, cut a cool new section from the top that is an absolute blast. Then they freaked out and shut it down saying it was too dangerous.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/bizutch/sugarDHtrailmap2006.jpg

Well, it's May and it's ON. Props to Kim(the "contact") and Erich (the trailmaster) for listening. They got my good friend Donovan up there (who built the original courses) to get a second opinion and he said...yup, go that way.

So the DH courses, Expert & Sport, will drop from the very top of the mountain. They've been up there for 2 weeks digging with a big crew, sometimes a backhoe and have created a new course.

Pros will come off the top through the 4 new areas then into Donovans Dungeon through a long, steep boulder descent into the first turn of the dungeon. From there, Erich and crew have built berms, drop and banks to drag you down to Lizards Lane, all staying to the woods side of the lift. You enter it from a higher point than before and a straight shot. The exit has been drasticly re-worked and a straight shot to a step down across the creek awaits you. Yes, there is a flat route around for novice. No more right hand to left hand to creek to uphill to flat.

He's going to lay out some more things below the exit on Easy Street, turns, berms, kicker, maybe a table top near the finish.

So to all those bashers, this ain't the same old same old. So we should have fun.

They did say they need some help in making sure the stuff from 3/4 to the exit of Lizards Lane will hold up and will take suggestions if something isn't working. They ask that riders try it out and let them know.

Also, this from Kim in Marketing:
If you are interested or know anyone interested in being up close with world-class mountain bikers please help us out by volunteering at the Showdown at Sugar Norba National Mountain bike competition June 8-11, 2006. Detailed volunteer info can be found in the attached pdf. Thank you for your consideration.-Kim JochlMarketing Director
http://www.skisugar.com/showdown/volunteers.phtml
All volunteers receive:

One volunteer event t-shirt
Lunch each day
One beverage coupon (maximum - one per volunteer)
One complimentary lift ticket for the 2006-07 winter season for each day worked. (5-8 hours)
One complimentary 2006 summer lift ride lift ticket for each day worked. (5-8 hours)

Fax:
828.898.6820

Mail:
Holly Green - NMBS Volunteers
Sugar Mountain Resort
PO Box 369
Banner Elk, NC 28604

For more information contact Holly Green at 1.800.SUGAR.MT or 828.898.4521 x227


RIDING HOURS
The slopes are open from dawn until dusk everyday except event days for mountain bikers, hikers, sightseers, picnickers etc. with the following guidelines:

Helmets recommended for all mountain bikers.
No one is allowed on any equipment such as lift towers.
All trash must be disposed of properly or carried away with you.

Summer lift rides are available July 4th weekend - Labor Day Weekend (Weekends Only): 10:00am - 5:30pm

[dhbuilder]

this sounds like very good news butch.
i'm hoping their enthusiasm doesn't wane after the race is over. and we can continue to have what is sounding like a good place to ride, for quite a long time.

[profro]

Here's we we rode yesterday.

-the new top section is still very green and needs to be ridden.
-a couple sections in the new top need to be worked to help flow
-the rock drop section in the new top is fine now that they took out the right hand turn at the bottom. Good flow.
-the new section across the slope from the rock drop exit needs to be removed. It will be almost imossible to do that section and not kill your speed unless they pave it or remove all the rocks and roots.
-they need to put in more switchbacks in some sections to help control speed. Some sections are straight into steeper technical sections. Unless they put in some turns, racers we need to dump a lot of speed and kill flow. The sections right before the rock slab could use a S curve and the section before the new entrance into Donavon's Dungen needs one too.
-the new drop and trail into Donavon's Dungun needs a lot of work and holes filled to make it racable. They need to keep racing in wet conditions in mind. Its very rooty in there and once those roots get exposed it will kill some of the flow.
-the new section that goes form Donavon's Dungen to Lizards Lane is straight down the slope with some berms. It will be scary fast and will likely kill someone, but I enjoyed it.
- the entrance to Liazrds Lane needs a lot of work. Maybe a bridge?? Its still up hill and kills flow.
-Lizards lane and the new creek jump are good. The jump could use a slight lander, but nothing major.
-the new section of Easy Street will be fun. It wasn't tatally done, but it looks like they have planned lots of berms and jumps. Even a nice tabletop at the finish line.

[bizutch]

Here's we we rode yesterday.

-the new top section is still very green and needs to be ridden.
-a couple sections in the new top need to be worked to help flow
-the rock drop section in the new top is fine now that they took out the right hand turn at the bottom. Good flow. Good to hear. I told Eric that would make it much better
-the new section across the slope from the rock drop exit needs to be removed. It will be almost imossible to do that section and not kill your speed unless they pave it or remove all the rocks and roots.Eric said he might take the backhoe up and basicly smooth it out into a hip, which is what I originally tried to design it as, but it was SOLID rock! Cool.
-they need to put in more switchbacks in some sections to help control speed. Some sections are straight into steeper technical sections. Unless they put in some turns, racers we need to dump a lot of speed and kill flow. The sections right before the rock slab could use a S curve and the section before the new entrance into Donavon's Dungen needs one too.
-the new drop and trail into Donavon's Dungun needs a lot of work and holes filled to make it racable. They need to keep racing in wet conditions in mind. Its very rooty in there and once those roots get exposed it will kill some of the flow. that section is going to be my favorite if they finish it out the way I suggested it with some good fill in and stacking :love:
-the new section that goes form Donavon's Dungen to Lizards Lane is straight down the slope with some berms. It will be scary fast and will likely kill someone, but I enjoyed it.love this quote
- the entrance to Liazrds Lane needs a lot of work. Maybe a bridge?? Its still up hill and kills flow. Eric mentioned doing some more work there. Time will tell
-Lizards lane and the new creek jump are good. The jump could use a slight lander, but nothing major.big improvement over the old exit
-the new section of Easy Street will be fun. It wasn't tatally done, but it looks like they have planned lots of berms and jumps. Even a nice tabletop at the finish line.that part is what I can't wait to see.....

[Tattooo]

When is this race? I need to dial things in for the summer.

[FCLinder]

When is this race? I need to dial things in for the summer.

June 9th, 10th, and 11th

[Murphy's Law]

Can we get an update on what the dual slalom course is going to look like? PLEASSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE tell me they are going to make more of an effort than snowshoe did last year.....Although seeing gates just stuck in the grass brought back great memories of racing dual slalom back in the mid- 90's, I may only be heading to sugar for DS, so i would really like to see a long, fun, jumpy flowing course, if that isn't asking too much!!!

[DHracer1067]

Can we get an update on what the dual slalom course is going to look like? PLEASSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE tell me they are going to make more of an effort than snowshoe did last year.....Although seeing gates just stuck in the grass brought back great memories of racing dual slalom back in the mid- 90's, I may only be heading to sugar for DS, so i would really like to see a long, fun, jumpy flowing course, if that isn't asking too much!!!


That 303 needs to hurry up and come so we can actually compare our times and see who's faster this season:sneaky:

[Murphy's Law]

That 303 needs to hurry up and come so we can actually compare our times and see who's faster this season:sneaky:
:redhot:

[bigdrop05]

I would like to see Mick Hannah rip that Sugar course up :trophy_br


He might go to windrock beforehand .:teacher:

[Guard]

Below is the email I just received from Kim at Sugar...

From: Kim Jochl <kim@skisugar.com>
Subject: Fw: sugar downhill course

Lifts will be running June 3 and 4. Regular summer weekend rates and times
apply http://www.skisugar.com/liftrides/. Spread the word.

[bizutch]

Below is the email I just received from Kim at Sugar...

From: Kim Jochl <kim@skisugar.com>
Subject: Fw: sugar downhill course

Lifts will be running June 3 and 4. Regular summer weekend rates and times
apply http://www.skisugar.com/liftrides/. Spread the word.
SWEET! Locals advantage. Hope all you guys like staring at the tread marks of Michelin Comp 16's. I'm gonnna leave them all over that mountain for you guys to look at the first day of practice.

As for the DS, it's going to be pretty long, Eric is using earth moving equipment to do so and he has a background in ski racing so he knows flow and setup. He went to Snowshoe and we talked about it and he knows that course sucked and said he had no intentions of doing that to you guys.
I got Eric in touch with Herndon and Chris may go up there when they lay it out and shape it to give them an idea of what works and what doesn't. Course should be pretty long...and it's definitely going to fast.

[bizutch]

I would like to see Mick Hannah rip that Sugar course up :trophy_br


He might go to windrock beforehand .:teacher:
what have you heard?

[dhbuilder]

nothing.

[biggins]

butch is the stuff we cut in last year? good to hear they are going to use it now.

[bizutch]

butch is the stuff we cut in last year? good to hear they are going to use it now.
yeah...they;re going to use all that we cut in last year.

[biggins]

sweet hopefully i will be up there shootin some if i can allocate funds to drive up there.

[haromtnbiker]

Where can I find some details of the Sugar National? Classes, times, schedule etc!

Thanks

[motomike]

skisugar.com?

[stubby]

CRAP my sisters graduation is at 12.00 on the tenth.
Sorry SIS:) :mumble: :nopity:

[Murphy's Law]

CRAP my sisters graduation is at 12.00 on the tenth.
Sorry SIS:) :mumble: :nopity:
:rofl: bikes before family. too funny.

and sounds like good news about the DS course butch....will that be open for riding the weekend before too or just the DH course?

[Mountain Geeker]

Hi,

I havent' seen the new stuff. Is there anything for the little guys that falls in between the main run and the really easy run from last year? The boy is not afraid of a drop or twelve so that's not the issue. I guess it was the slick rocks.

Anybody else our there with a 10 year old (or so) that plans to race Sugar this year?

[stubby]

no ill go to her graduation.ill race the dual and win on fri tho.

[TCP21]

i might be at sugar this year but dont know exactly yet

[bizutch]

Hi,

I havent' seen the new stuff. Is there anything for the little guys that falls in between the main run and the really easy run from last year? The boy is not afraid of a drop or twelve so that's not the issue. I guess it was the slick rocks.

Anybody else our there with a 10 year old (or so) that plans to race Sugar this year?
I'd say the Super D course b/c it's on the older sport course, very tame.

[Tattooo]

So I need to bring my Demo and my Morewood?

Are we having DH, 4x and DS? Big weekend if that's the case.

[motomike]

So I need to bring my Demo and my Morewood?

Are we having DH, 4x and DS? Big weekend if that's the case.

yeah bring both. DH, super D, and DS.

[stubby]

i think im gonna cry like a little girl. I really want cms to rescedule my sisters hs graduation!

[Murphy's Law]

i think im gonna cry like a little girl. I really want cms to rescedule my sisters hs graduation!
yeah, and i'd like Yeti to reschedule my 303 ship date so i can race DH and super D at sugar, but these my friend, are things that are just out of our hands. so i too will be crying like a little school girl..... sounds like one hell of a DH course they are working on up there. I will be very sad if i have to miss this one, since i've already missed massanuten and will be missing the US Open next weekend.

[haromtnbiker]

Sell your car so you can buy a race bike, then bum rides to races and work. Then when your 303 comes next year, sell the dh bike and buy another car! :cool:

[Murphy's Law]

craig, don't make me add you to my list:redhot:

[Dhracer3]

Hey! ya went and rode the new DH! its pretty awesome but ya as Pro Fro says we talked to Eric about the parts that need some work still.. right now its so green that the track has no flow at the top... the bottom and middle are fine..
I do suggest you guys make the top section a little more rideable.. almost to many rocks that you end up pushing with one leg through sections.. other than that there is one part at the bottom where you are flying down and all of a sudden you had to come to a complete stop to get around this ditch but I'm sure there will be a bridge or something at least which will be awesome!!
So ya track is a lot better than expected!!

[profro]

Yo, Dhracer3, watch out for those bridges. :eek:

[bizutch]

Hey! ya went and rode the new DH! its pretty awesome but ya as Pro Fro says we talked to Eric about the parts that need some work still.. right now its so green that the track has no flow at the top... the bottom and middle are fine..
I do suggest you guys make the top section a little more rideable.. almost to many rocks that you end up pushing with one leg through sections.. other than that there is one part at the bottom where you are flying down and all of a sudden you had to come to a complete stop to get around this ditch but I'm sure there will be a bridge or something at least which will be awesome!!
So ya track is a lot better than expected!!
glad you guys talked to him first person. I assume you're talking about the section AFTER the big boulder face and leading into Donovan's Dungeon right?

[Heavey Hitter]

is the sport course gonna be the same as the expert or will it start lower

[bizutch]

is the sport course gonna be the same as the expert or will it start lower
Eric said the sport course will start up top and route around the really tech stuff.

[Dhracer3]

Ya after the boulder face onto the straight that whole section going into the woods there need to be smooth so we can get speed through it..
I was just finding myself pushing my bike through it.. also on the cool flat sections you come around a left corner into lizzards lane and and you almost have to come to a stop for the ditch...? if there was a bridge in it that would be awesome!
Good job on the rest of the course looks cool..!

[Froggy]

Ya after the boulder face onto the straight that whole section going into the woods there need to be smooth so we can get speed through it..
I was just finding myself pushing my bike through it.. also on the cool flat sections you come around a left corner into lizzards lane and and you almost have to come to a stop for the ditch...? if there was a bridge in it that would be awesome!
Good job on the rest of the course looks cool..!

Shouldn't you be in the city or something....you and your bridge...I thought you would have learned by now....bridges are bad :mumble:

BTW
I got a new fork in time for the Open...:)

[jonnynails]

Rode the Sugar course today and I have to say hats off to Butch and the rest of the trail crew for cutting this trail. Also Kim for allowing it!! Much improved over the old course. The rock drop at the top reminds me a little of the old pro course at Beech. Anyway, my feed back for what it's worth:

Top section- Fast and fun. Rock drop will at least be over early in the run so you can stop thinking about it the whole way down. Love the rock face roll down - adds a little something different.

I had problems with the new entrance into Donovans dungeon. Once you drop down off the slope and make the right hand turn you have to scrub all your speed and try to pick your way through. If you are unlucky enough to blow through the corner like I did my second run (thought I needed more speed to smooth out the "throw you over the handlebars rocks and ruts") good luck getting back on your bike and getting any momentum for the next 50 feet or so. Once you get through that first fifty feet after the turn it's great.

The part under the lift before lizards lane is fast and it has some of the Mt. Snow type compression bumps that like to try and pitch you off the bike. I didn't see any problems going into lizards lane or through it, so maybe the ditch talked about earlier is fixed? Good old lizards lane is just that - never changes. The creek jump at the end is a nice improvement.

The rest is just slope mostly. They do route you back and forth and briefly go through the woods and back onto the slope. Big table top at the bottom. Will be curious to see what else gets added.

No sign of any work on a dual slalom course. Maybe NORBA has their own crew to do this right before the race???

[nchuckster]

have a few questions about this race. first of all i have never ran a race before and am not sure to what class i should run in. What is the difference between the sport class and the expert class. i have rode for a while and am confident in my riding abilities so im just confused about the two classifications.

[bizutch]

have a few questions about this race. first of all i have never ran a race before and am not sure to what class i should run in. What is the difference between the sport class and the expert class. i have rode for a while and am confident in my riding abilities so im just confused about the two classifications.
Go up this weekend. If you can clean the expert course without stopping or flipping consistently (80-85% of the time), you should ride expert. If you are getting it around 50% of the time, please race sport or you'll ball up the other 50-60 riders freight training down your back in practice and/or hurt yourself bad.

Is that a good estimate guys?

[dhbuilder]

meaning no offense whatsoever.

but i'd say, if you have to ask. then stay out of the expert class.
if you've never raced before, then you probably don't have any idea about how fast the experts and pros will be motoring thru sections of the trail that most people will come to a halt and stare at.
doing a huge disservice to those who are in the middle of that "tunnel vision mode" during practice and their race run. the last thing they're going to want, is to fly up on a rider at half or 3/4 speed and then wondering what you're going to do next. while they blow past. collisions usually leave the person who's been run over in worse shape than the one doing the clobbering.

there's no shame in entering the sport class for a race or two, to gauge where you are in terms of your competition.

[nchuckster]

thats what i needed to know thanks for the info and also thanks for no one being a smartass about the question thanks again

[bizutch]

. and also thanks for no one being a smartass about the question thanks again
I had to restrain myself...really, really...really hard.

[BKQuill]

meaning no offense whatsoever.

but i'd say, if you have to ask. then stay out of the expert class.
if you've never raced before, then you probably don't have any idea about how fast the experts and pros will be motoring thru sections of the trail that most people will come to a halt and stare at.
doing a huge disservice to those who are in the middle of that "tunnel vision mode" during practice and their race run. the last thing they're going to want, is to fly up on a rider at half or 3/4 speed and then wondering what you're going to do next. while they blow past. collisions usually leave the person who's been run over in worse shape than the one doing the clobbering.

there's no shame in entering the sport class for a race or two, to gauge where you are in terms of your competition.

The man speaks the truth.

I have been racing/riding BMX for 25+ years, so I figured that I could at least hang with the experts in the DH class. Well whenever I would go riding with my friends who happen to be experts and pros, I would always volunteer to go last. I did this for two reasons, first, I'm pretty new to MTBing and didn't want the pressure of having a Butch, Jeremy, Brady, Jeff, Joey or whoever else breathing down my neck and causing me to ride above my skill level (I do this enough on my own, I didn't need any more help) and end up taking out the pack of riders behind me. I also wanted to try and catch them and see how close I could stay to them. I quickly learned that there was NO WAY I'M GOING TO HANG WITH THEM, I'M NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!

Try racing sport class a couple time and then compare your time with the experts. And if you do race sport, don't get discouraged when you see 3,4 or 5 riders just killing the sport times. There are f**king sandbagging experts out there that just don't like to pay the expert fee or maybe it was a renewal, whatever it was, they enter the sport class. NORBA seems not to have a problem allowing sandbagging. I could really care less, it's not like I'm going for a national title or anything, I just think it's a cowardly way to reach the podium.

[dhbuilder]

exactly.
if you leave feeling good about your riding ability because you were racing in a class with similar skill levels. you'll more than likely be fired up to race more often.
if you show up and have a bad experience because of racing in a class that's over and above your present level, and incur the wrath of less than polite competitors, you'll leave with a bad taste in your mouth and never return.

i saw that happen many many times while i was x-c racing.

[bizutch]

I should also clarify my statement. Just because someone can ride 100% of a DH course doesn't mean they can race it. I know lots of riders who can get all the way down Windrock...which is expert and above riding. But they have NO business racing in Expert.

[mgy]

I just saw that Sugar is having a "special lift weekend" on June 3 and 4. Does anyone know if the DH trails will be open? Is there any free camping near Sugar? National Forest land?

I am debating between Snowshoe and Sugar this weekend so any advice is appreciated.

[profro]

I am debating between Snowshoe and Sugar this weekend so any advice is appreciated.

Go to Snowshoe. You can maybe find 2 different ways down the mountain at Sugar. Snowshoe has enough to go back for a second weekend.

[bigdrop05]

I should also clarify my statement. Just because someone can ride 100% of a DH course doesn't mean they can race it. I know lots of riders who can get all the way down Windrock...which is expert and above riding. But they have NO business racing in Expert.

Totally agree !:thumb:
You got to have serious fitness to ride faasst in expert,& skillz of course.

[bizutch]

Go to Snowshoe. You can maybe find 2 different ways down the mountain at Sugar. Snowshoe has enough to go back for a second weekend.
DITTO! SNowshoe has boucoup trails. Sugar has the new DH and that's about it.

[dhbuilder]

"special lift"
is that anything like the "short bus" ?

[manimal]

There are f**king sandbagging experts out there that just don't like to pay the expert fee or maybe it was a renewal, whatever it was, they enter the sport class. NORBA seems not to have a problem allowing sandbagging. I could really care less, it's not like I'm going for a national title or anything, I just think it's a cowardly way to reach the podium.


Werd. that has been my biggest frustration. just when i think i have a killer run and have a chance at top 5-ish....there are always 2 or 3 sandbaggers that are at least 10 seconds faster than the next fastest time. they'll usually pull times that are comparable to top 25 in expert class. pretty lame if you ask me and i have nooooo problem calling them out.

[Murphy's Law]

Werd. that has been my biggest frustration. just when i think i have a killer run and have a chance at top 5-ish....there are always 2 or 3 sandbaggers that are at least 10 seconds faster than the next fastest time. they'll usually pull times that are comparable to top 25 in expert class. pretty lame if you ask me and i have nooooo problem calling them out.


I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.

[profro]

I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.


Name one. :nopity:


I can't stand the sandbagger routine. :banghead: Its so old. Whaa whaa whaa...

[DHracer1067]

I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.

yeah man you better move up or you'll be a sandbagger.


I don't really think you can be a sandbagger in expert. It's the highest the classes go till you are in pro and pro is just on a whole nother level. Some people just aren't serious enough about it and just want to have fun so they would just want to stay in expert.

[profro]

yeah man you better move up or you'll be a sandbagger.


I don't really think you can be a sandbagger in expert. It's the highest the classes go till you are in pro and pro is just on a whole nother level. Some people just aren't serious enough about it and just want to have fun so they would just want to stay in expert.

Very nicely said Jason.


I am so sick and tired of our " instant gratification" society. Everyone has to be on the podium and if you can't make it, then its someone else's fault because they are baggers. Riding should be enough gratification. :nopity:

[manimal]

Very nicely said Jason.


I am so sick and tired of our " instant gratification" society. Everyone has to be on the podium and if you can't make it, then its someone else's fault because they are baggers. Riding should be enough gratification. :nopity:

yes, Riding should be enough gratification. but when you PAY to RACE fellow riders in a relatively fair manner by having classes it gets pretty old always seeing a select few smoking the class with times that are well in the "faster than average" time of the next higher class. speaking mainly of sport...expert seems to have a much broader range of times. if i just wanted to RIDE i could go anywhere and have fun...even to the race locations, usually, on non-race days. but when us poor folk save up money to travel, pay RACE FEES, lodging and food we're paying for a chance to compete against other riders that are COMPARABLE to our own skill level. that just doesn't happen when there are expert level riders "bagging" in the sport class. it's just not fiscally worth it for the few runs down the mountain to say that simply "riding should be enough gratification"

that's why you hear us bitchin'

[manimal]

i'm gonna go ahead and jinx the race now...but....

Weather as of now:
Friday (24 hours): Times of sun and clouds. Highs in the upper 70s and lows in the low 50s.
Saturday (24 hours): Times of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 70s and lows in the low 50s.

[Murphy's Law]

yes, Riding should be enough gratification. but when you PAY to RACE fellow riders in a relatively fair manner by having classes it gets pretty old always seeing a select few smoking the class with times that are well in the "faster than average" time of the next higher class. speaking mainly of sport...expert seems to have a much broader range of times. if i just wanted to RIDE i could go anywhere and have fun...even to the race locations, usually, on non-race days. but when us poor folk save up money to travel, pay RACE FEES, lodging and food we're paying for a chance to compete against other riders that are COMPARABLE to our own skill level. that just doesn't happen when there are expert level riders "bagging" in the sport class. it's just not fiscally worth it for the few runs down the mountain to say that simply "riding should be enough gratification"

that's why you hear us bitchin' well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

[dhbuilder]

what's crazy is in the older expert d.h. classes. just the opposite is the case.
at the nationals, norba will let sport vets race in the expert vet class also.

i got frikkin tired of lining up behind the same flailers race after race.
you talk to them at the starthouse and they'll say, "oh yeah i'll move over." and to a man, every one of them will try to race you as they hear you blowing up behind them at a massive difference in speed.
only to loose it all over themselves and cost you time.

that is 90% of the reason you'll never see me race again.
i don't mind not winning, but when you don't get a fair chance to put in your best effort. what's the point ? so i'll just keep riding with my friends for the pure joy of riding.
we've got more than a few very fast locals here at windrock. i'll just judge my performance against theirs and be satisfied with that.

peer respect means more to me anyway.

[DHracer1067]

well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

The top kids in Jr. x are routinely right behind the top pro times at races. I'm not complaining. I just need to get faster.

[T-Pro]

You guy's have some interesting comments on race class structuring. I definitely am noticing some frustrations with current race formats.

My experience with ski racing and the typical class structure separates racers by age solely not ability. Usually dividing people by some small age ranges. This being true for all classes except the pro/open class. I like this format in that it elevates the question of whether a racer is a "beginner", "sport", or "Expert" in their ability. A persons ability you can question and form opinion, their age you can't. Basically there is no way to be a sandbagger when age is the separating factor.

Though in a sport where the progression from newbie to elite/pro is a vast and steep hill to climb. Separating by ability is almost a necessity. Motocross can be compared in this respect. Classes separated into C, B, and A/pro divisions and age ranges within each class.

It's a tough question. I am not sure the Intro, Amateur, and Pro/Open format is the answer either.
Thoughts?

[profro]

well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

You know that Nationals are the only races you do where their routinely seperate the semis and the pros? Everywhere else we race together.

In the semi/pro class we usually pay more to race than you. I always loose. Why is my money not as hard earned as yours?

I think if you recharacterize what you consider as progress or a sucsess you won't worry so much about being beat by someone faster. Try to not be beat by 20 seconds. Work towards 15, then 10, then 5.

T-pro, I'll run open/pro so it doesn't matter to me, but I'm unlike most. I'd rather have 3 larger classes with no age brackets. Makes winning or podiuming more of an accomplishment.

[bigdrop05]

I'm picking on profro for 1'st place in semi-pro.
:trophy_br

[vinnycactus]

sorry if I missed it, but is there going to be two seperate courses? one for pro/semi-pro/expert and one for sport/beginner?

[legend_killer]

yes, the sport course will go around the "hard stuff"

JT

[DHracer1067]

I think if you recharacterize what you consider as progress or a sucsess you won't worry so much about being beat by someone faster. Try to not be beat by 20 seconds. Work towards 15, then 10, then 5.


yeah. Ive mainly just been concentrating and making sure my times are getting faster than last years, instead of just seeing what place I got.


But what do you think the conditions are gonna be like this weekend for the race. Think it'll be muddy at all. Forecast looks like it might not rain for the race days but lizards lane and stuff seems to always be wet.

[Tattooo]

I think for the DH the smart investment De Fat is going to be Swampthings.

However, from rumors around the proverbial campfire, is there going to be any more of a DS then a bunch of drunks attempting to navigate around sticks in the mud? That's a race I could win, but a brother's got's to know, if you know what I mean.

[profro]

yeah. Ive mainly just been concentrating and making sure my times are getting faster than last years, instead of just seeing what place I got.


But what do you think the conditions are gonna be like this weekend for the race. Think it'll be muddy at all. Forecast looks like it might not rain for the race days but lizards lane and stuff seems to always be wet.

Unless it turns in to a swampy bog, I'll be running DHFs front and rear as always. I don't think Swampthings will be needed, but bring them just incase.

[DHracer1067]

yeah. I'm running 2.5 dhf's front & rear. Hopefully it should be good. That's what I ran last year.

[Murphy's Law]

.

In the semi/pro class we usually pay more to race than you. I always loose. Why is my money not as hard earned as yours?

don't put words in my mouth. i never said that. Not quite sure why you have it out for me, i have nothing against you. I'm just voicing my past frustrations with racing. but they are just that. frustrations. nothings perfect in this world.

[Peete]

I think for the DH the smart investment De Fat is going to be Swampthings.

However, from rumors around the proverbial campfire, is there going to be any more of a DS then a bunch of drunks attempting to navigate around sticks in the mud? That's a race I could win, but a brother's got's to know, if you know what I mean.

I won't be drinking before my heats unless everyone else is.

[profro]

don't put words in my mouth. i never said that. Not quite sure why you have it out for me, i have nothing against you. I'm just voicing my past frustrations with racing. but they are just that. frustrations. nothings perfect in this world.

Nothing against you, but as Jason said Expert is the highest ametuer class and nothing requires you to move up to the pro ranks even if you win by minutes. If you can't be competitive in the expert class no matter who races, then maybe your'e not an expert. No offense, but I can't stand people tryin to blame others on themselves not winning.

I have great respect for Tubby too, but I still can't stand the sandbagger routine no matter whose singing it.

[TCP21]

yes, the sport course will go around the "hard stuff"

JT

im not jt but either thats a good thing or a bad thing

[bizutch]

Man, there are some posts for "Short Bus" in this thread.
Hey TCP21, JT is the guys signature...derrr.

Hey profro and Murphy's Law...I say joust over it on the tennis court at Sugar this weekend. Winner buys the first round.

[manimal]

uh-oh, something bad is going to happen. they're still calling for sun and 70 degrees on fri/sat and only 30% chance of showers on sunday.
<<<<waiting for the bottom to drop out>>>>>>

[bizutch]

uh-oh, something bad is going to happen. they're still calling for sun and 70 degrees on fri/sat and only 30% chance of showers on sunday.
<<<<waiting for the bottom to drop out>>>>>>
I've been doing my rain dance in headdress, mocassins, beads and warpaint....

[legend_killer]

im not jt but either thats a good thing or a bad thing

I know your not JT cuz I'm JT

I think that should let the sport class go thru the "hard stuff"

JT

[manimal]

i just figured it out. just race fees and lift fee alone, and supposing that i luck out and get 6 runs in between friday/sat practice (which would be generous considering the 21 min. lift ride). it comes to $14.67 per run down the mtn. :eek: natl's are expensive!! oh well, 'tis the season ;)

[Tattooo]

Who all is camping at Grandpas?

And that DS looks like a track for Hotwheels cars, or mayby Stompers from days of old.

[TCP21]

Man, there are some posts for "Short Bus" in this thread.
Hey TCP21, JT is the guys signature...derrr.

Hey profro and Murphy's Law...I say joust over it on the tennis court at Sugar this weekend. Winner buys the first round.
not cool but whatever

[Tattooo]

Is this going to be the sort of race I ought to bring my shovel and my tamper to?

[manimal]

sweet! looks like i'll be able to bring lil manimal along for this one :thumb: should be a good kindergarten graduation fling :D