Fox 40 Dual Rate Ti springs

[leprechaun]

Hey fellas
We at Go-Ride have recieved our Dual Rate ProTi spring kits.I know a few of you have been anxious to see them so here they are:

http://www.go-ride.com/prod_rcs_fox40.html

We've found that when pushing the forks hard they reach bottom too easily so we have the option of mixing rates to get a more progressive feel, as if raising oil volume on open bath forks but without gaining weight.

We've got medium, firm and x-firm and the most popular combo is to mix the firm and x-firm.

The 2005 40s had medium ti springs in them, and the last batch of 2006 models we recieved have green firm ti springs in them, which are still too soft for advanced riders and air catchers.

The x-firm ti springs are 120 grams (1/4lb)lighter than the steel yellow x-firm 40 spring

Yes you can still adjust your travel
Yes they are shorter than stock and still get 8" travel.
Yes you can get 2 x-firm springs
Yes the 2 springs go in the same 1 leg that the stock spring was in.
Yes they are made by RCS in the US of A
Yes they are expensive, this fork is so nice that we felt it was woth this final touch to reach perfection
NO we don't have steel ones, the steel could sack out in the softer of the 2 springs so we could not do the dual rate combo.
NO you can't get them anywhere else.

Enjoy

[kidwoo]

How bout that 36?

[Transcend]

Damn, those are pricey.

[kidwoo]

Damn, those are pricey.


Aaaggghh!!


Nevermind about the 36

[leprechaun]

Same price as a rear ti spring and it actually helps the performance of a product...but yes they are pricey

Seems there are a few 40s for sale since people couldn't get them set up right.

If these sell well at all the 36 will follow.There are a lot more people riding 36's but we use 40's on the team bikes so that was most important. We put 300 something cc's fork oil in a 36 to get good ramp up but it would take a gallon to fill a 40 he he

[heikkihall]

I want to learn a little more about running two different rate springs. I have been interested in doing this in a few different forks and have allways been told it was not possible. Everyone said something like the softer of the two springs would fully compress and bottom out (coil bind) before the other spring would compress. This would create a sudden notchy hardness half way through the travel. I was told the only way to get this feeling was to have a progressivly wound spring. Maybe I was talking to the wrong people? Discuss.

It seems like a good idea though.

[Transcend]

I want to learn a little more about running two different rate springs. I have been interested in doing this in a few different forks and have allways been told it was not possible. Everyone said something like the softer of the two springs would fully compress and bottom out (coil bind) before the other spring would compress. This would create a sudden notchy hardness half way through the travel. I was told the only way to get this feeling was to have a progressivly wound spring. Maybe I was talking to the wrong people? Discuss.

It seems like a good idea though.

This is what I understood from Fox as well.

[DHS]

oooh those are pretty..

[Kram]

Why don't Fox offer a choice of ti springs rates so you can buy it out of the box with a firmer ti spring instead of having to swap out the medium one and throw it away? (bit like what Spesh do with the Demo)
You would think second year round they would get their act together. :mumble:
Hell they might even sell more forks.

[Transcend]

Why don't Fox offer a choice of ti springs rates so you can buy it out of the box with a firmer ti spring instead of having to swap out the medium one and throw it away? (bit like what Spesh do with the Demo)
You would think second year round they would get their act together. :mumble:
Hell they might even sell more forks.

Ti springs cost a fortune (as you can see). They include the most popular one. Offering a choice would mean stocking an insane amount of seperate products at distributors and shops, and incluing all 4 would probably put the fork cost over $2000.

I'm pretty sure they aren't worried about selling more forks...

[davep]

I was wondering when you guys would get these out (my friend works @ RCS and tells me all kinds of crazy stories) anybody had a chance to ride this set-up yet? sounds like a cool idea.

FYI the softer will not cause the you to feel the transition in the springs, as the differences in rates are not THAT much. for example, if one spring is 20lb/in and the other is 10lb/in if you apply 40 lbs to the fork, the stiffer spring will move 2 inches, and the softer will move 4 inches. Now there will be a place where the softer spring essentially become (significantly) non linear in its spring curve but the stiffer spring will already be partialy compressed and still have more travel to go. So overall you should end up with a fairly smooth increasing, exponential-like curve. If the rates were VERY different then yes, you would over compress one w/o moving the other 'at all' and you might feel the transition

[fiddy_ryder]

i think the dual stage really depends on how close the 2 springs are in rate. by looking at the chart, the 2 stages are only apart by 5lbs. the rate is what, the amount of force required to compress the spring 1". you double that load and it compresses 2".. so you got 45 and 50lb springs.. you put 45lbs on the the top spring drops and inch, then you double and now you have 90lbs on the spring. shouldnt the bottom 50lb spring now pick up some of the load since it is above its springs. Im not an engineer by any means, this is just what ive been told before by someone more knowledgeable. And to add to that, there would be a ratio that springs would compress together according to load, meaning the softer spring would compress more before the stiffer., and once you completely bind the softer one, the stiff spring should be near the end of the travel anyway and the crossover between the 2 shouldnt be noticeable.


Doh'! davep beat me to it.

[dexter]

i have run 2 different spring rates in the same fork for years on my old dorados

[DHRFX Joe]

:looney:

$500 for Ti springs is a tough pill to swallow.....

[leprechaun]

We have lots of fancy graphs from the engineering dept at RCS showing the different rate curves from mixing the different spring rates. Since RCS uses a one of a kind titanium alloy made specificly for spring wire they can take the high loads of mixing the springs.

Marzocchi has mixed the rates on their springs for years.Super T's have had 2 springs in each leg since 1999?

We are only mixing 5lb differences-40/45 or 45/50lb. RCS said we could mix the 40/50 without overloading them though.That may make a sharp rise in the feel.We are still playing around with that.

Fox didn't want to do it because it was too difficult or expensive to do.We've spoken with them quite a bit while doing this project to make sure we weren't stepping on anyone's toes.

[Mani_UT]

:looney:
$500 for Ti springs is a tough pill to swallow.....

Huh it says 249$ for the kit (that's 2 "half" springs to replace a long one). Where did you see 500?

[DHRFX Joe]

Huh it says 249$ for the kit (that's 2 "half" springs to replace a long one). Where did you see 500?

isnt there a spring in each leg? therefore 2 half springs in each leg, making 4 total? i could be wrong, that comes to 2 sets of $250 each, but i dont own a fox so i dont know how their spring system works...

[Mani_UT]

i could be wrong,

Indeed you're wrong. Thanks for understanding.

[leprechaun]

:looney:

$500 for Ti springs is a tough pill to swallow.....


$250 FOR A SET including spacers,etc!! not each man! That would be nuts!

[DHRFX Joe]

Indeed you're wrong. Thanks for understanding.

care to explain then? do foxes only use one spring? like i said, i dont ride a fox, nor have i ever touched one, so i have no idea how they work.

[zedro]

Avy's been featuring single stack dual rate Ti springs for awhile now. Thats why they're the greatest things since zip-lock bags.

[Mani_UT]

care to explain then? do foxes only use one spring? .

Yes. Sorry it wasn't clear ;)

[DHRFX Joe]

im retarded......:cool:

[DHRracer]

Just crazzzzzy stories!!!!!

[DHRFX Joe]

ok thank you, that makes alot more sense now:clue:

[Kram]

Ti springs cost a fortune (as you can see). They include the most popular one. Offering a choice would mean stocking an insane amount of seperate products at distributors and shops, and incluing all 4 would probably put the fork cost over $2000.

I think they could up their game as could all frame and fork manufacturer's. Sucks buying a bike and then the first thing you have to do is go and buy new springs all round. It's a scam if ya ask me.

I'm pretty sure they aren't worried about selling more forks...
that's hilarious. pretty sure they would be happy to sell more

[leprechaun]

Replacement springs for my $6000 moto are like $120 for steel. At least we will exchange the rear spring for a customer when they buy a frame.

[fiddy_ryder]

I think they could up their game as could all frame and fork manufacturer's. Sucks buying a bike and then the first thing you have to do is go and buy new springs all round. It's a scam if ya ask me.


that's hilarious. pretty sure they would be happy to sell more


seriously,, what do they think the average weight of the riders are that can afford this stuff,, definetly not a 130 lb 10th grader :rolleyes: we are grown as$ men dropping a G on a fork, they know damn well majority of us weigh more than a buckthirty..

[leprechaun]

40s do come with 3 springs in the box-not ti but it's a step ahead of the other guys.I almost allways have to get springs for my ride.

This year was different. My Van 130 had a soft spring in the box, my 66 came with a soft spring and i put in 10psi and it's dialed!! Ithink the sport HAS come a long way.

[leprechaun]

The 05 40 stock medium spring was a joke. One 5 foot drop to grass landing and my wrists shouted out!! At least the 06s as of late have the green one in ti in there. Now my 125lb hulking mass can drop the 4 footer.

[Transcend]

The 05 40 stock medium spring was a joke. One 5 foot drop to grass landing and my wrists shouted out!! At least the 06s as of late have the green one in ti in there. Now my 125lb hulking mass can drop the 4 footer.

Krispy are you running the medium 06 ti? I threw in an 06 soft and it seems way softer than last years.

[DHRFX Joe]

holy crap, i just realized leprechaun = krispy

huge fan, i am honored to have been called nuts by you

continue on, i shall never enter this thread again:rofl:

[leprechaun]

The medium silver ti spring was coming in the forks until a few weeks ago when the firm green ti springs started coming in them.The old ti one was right for chop but the green feels better for shreddin.I have tried the med/firm combo and it feels just right for me now. Actually i don't 'own' a 40 but through testing all the guys' team ones and other friends' bikes that is what i would run.I haven't tried the steel medium spring that comes in the box.
Oh-just noticed that the latest 06 forks have a soft purple spring and a green steel one like they used to come with.That's wierd-they should have a yellow x-firm in there instead of 2 of the same spring! Maybe it's just a screwup on the last ones we got.

[Kram]

40s do come with 3 springs in the box-not ti but it's a step ahead of the other guys.I almost allways have to get springs for my ride.

This year was different. My Van 130 had a soft spring in the box, my 66 came with a soft spring and i put in 10psi and it's dialed!! Ithink the sport HAS come a long way.

Yeah good point on the spare springs and good on you guys for knowing what people want and offering quality after market stuff.
Things really have come a long way.
I do think though that part of Fox's marketing is to sell the 40 at 7lb weight when it's BS if you immediately have to swap the spring out to a lower quality one (steel).
I reckon they could up the game buy selling them without a spring or with a standard cheapy steel to get you going and you could send in for your preferred ti one. Like Spesh/Demo.
All the other companies are guilty of this carryon too though.

[buildyourown]

I weigh 170ish and the medium fox pring feels perfect for me. I never feel it bottom, and I have the preload almost all the way out.
I think fox is way ahead of every other major fork maker in that they include a Ti spring and a choice of springs. Name another maker that does even one of those? If fox hadn't made ONE of them Ti, nobody would wine.

I'm glad go-ride has stepped up. I don't have a need for them, but this kind of aftermarket support for products is what makes them an awesome shop.

[leprechaun]

Thanks Build.
Do you have an 05 or 06? (40 or 45 lb spring?)
Glad you like yers.
Funny how some people love their setup and it's unrideable for others.

[gemini2k]

why can't you just specifiy which ti spring you want when you order? I mean I'm sure xfirm ti springs don't cost any more than soft. Granted if its not all uniform it might add a few bucks to the cost. But I think it would be worth it.

[Castle]

yeah i was just gettin ready to mention my '01 and '02 Super t's had dual springs in the legs......... nice update/upgrade, I dumped my van 36 because it wasn't progressive enough.

[Kanter]

So what is the weight of a DH40 and a set of your Ti springs?

[leprechaun]

Our springs weigh about the same as the stock ti one does, so about 6.9 lbs or so.

[Kanter]

Our springs weigh about the same as the stock ti one does, so about 6.9 lbs or so.


So do you sell custom built DH40s now?

[leprechaun]

Sure we could!

Of course fox won't sell us stripped down ones so the price won't be exactly hot but i'll work up the Kanter discount.:)

[Kanter]

Sure we could!

Of course fox won't sell us stripped down ones so the price won't be exactly hot but i'll work up the Kanter discount.:)

hmmmm, GR crowns, RCS ti springs and 1 lb lighter than a 888.... sounds yuummy.

[Transcend]

The medium silver ti spring was coming in the forks until a few weeks ago when the firm green ti springs started coming in them.The old ti one was right for chop but the green feels better for shreddin.I have tried the med/firm combo and it feels just right for me now. Actually i don't 'own' a 40 but through testing all the guys' team ones and other friends' bikes that is what i would run.I haven't tried the steel medium spring that comes in the box.
Oh-just noticed that the latest 06 forks have a soft purple spring and a green steel one like they used to come with.That's wierd-they should have a yellow x-firm in there instead of 2 of the same spring! Maybe it's just a screwup on the last ones we got.

I had a yellow, a green and a purple I think when I received my fork. I dropped the softest one in straight away at 145lbs.

[wydopen]

im sure ill be running some once i get my fork on my new bike

[The Mad Haderer]

whoo wee thats a pricey upgrade...and who did you make sure to not step on anyones toes with? Fox is perfectly ok with you offering this sort of upgrade?

[leprechaun]

We spoke with our sales guy, the sponsorship guy and they spread the word around engineering etc. They're glad we have em so they can send people to us when people call to find stiffer ti springs. Natrually they were concerned with potential wear inside the tubes etc but when they saw the delrin spacer between the springs with a wear ring to keep the springs away from the inner wall and the high tech coating on them they were cool with it.

[S.K.C.]

Krispy, you and the rest of the guys at Go-Ride fu@kin RULE!

You really are an acessible custom/factory DH tuning shop.

I love my 888, but it is a bit on the heavy side for racing. Looks like I'm gonna be buying a 40 with the Pro Kit at the end of this season.

I remember you mentioning in a very brief statement that CVD was running this Pro-Kit at the beginning of last year in his Fox 40.

For racing, what were his spring rates, and how much does CVD weigh? How did he like it?

Just wondering.

[Bicyclist]

Sweet. I think the 40 needs some dual-rate springs. That thing is so damn linear it's ridiculous.

[leprechaun]

CVD (Chris Van Dine) had Fox pro issue only springs that were not dual rate,they were just stiff as hell all the way through. His setup was 1 reason we started this project.He ran the Yellow X-Firm spring,and i think he had 1 even stiffer that is not available to the public for throwin down the huck jam.His fork felt like James Stewart's supercross bike with the fork so stiff that i could only move it 2 inches and a 60lb spring in the back! He's about 180 i think.It seemed way too stiff to me but i can't fathom going that fast.

[S.K.C.]

DOH!

Yeah - I meant Chris... with all the acronyms and nicknames, I put down the wrong brother... sorry guys.:o:

So for racing he had his fork set up w/ a stiff spring rate, and then for hucking he went even stiffer?!

Jeez... I guess that's his riding style?

I figured for racing he would prefer the springs to be a bit on the soft side for absorbing chatter-bumps...

[leprechaun]

What chatter bumps-that dude bounces out of berms and is in the air or power wheeling to the next corner. Ever see a 9" travel DH bike fully bottom out in a 90 degree corner? The way that guy rides he needs it stiff! We had a hard time getting him setup right-we'd allways be telling him his setup was unbalanced and that Maxxis tires don't work so hot at 35 psi but once again he's special.

[offtheedge]

I want!

[Jimmy_Pop]

I want too

[leprechaun]

Jimy
I looked at 'your sled' - damn that's a nice Brooklyn! Gold n black.nice.

I'm sure the dual rate 40 springs would match the rising rate linkage of the frame.

[V-Dub]

Sunday, April 30th. Me, Chris Van Dine, Chris Del Bosco and a handful of other riders go to Bountiful, Utah to get some riding in. I'm borrowing Scott's bike outfitted with a spankin' new Fox 40 and the new Go-Ride Ti spring kit (1 medium and 1 firm). Keep in mind that I have not been on a DH bike since Mammoth last year. The last time I rode a Fox 40 was earlier last year. A stock Demo 8 with a Fox 40. All I can remember is the fork was bottoming on the harder hits. The stock spring was too soft for my weight. I didn't mess with either of the compression adjusters. So today, I get only a few runs in. Once again, I do not mess with the compression adjuster at all. The one difference I notice, plush on small bumps, but I never did reach bottom. Once again, this is the first time I have ridden I DH rig for quite a few months, so maybe not the best end all test, but I was really impressed with the performance. For sure more testing to come. Matt Johnston, Del Bosco, and Scott are all headed back up tomorrow (Mon the 1st) to do more testing. We will keep all you monkeys up to date with our latest info.

V-Dub

[blue]

Bountiful is clear?!?!?

And here I am, doing campus runs on a beautiful Sunday.

[thaflyinfatman]

Hmm... in actual fact there are only two dual rate options. The soft and x-firm options will give you a linear rate the same as the stock springs, thus rendering the kit useless if you need a soft or x-firm spring.