Necrophilia is Natural

[fluff]

If you're a duck...

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1432991,00.html

His findings have provoked a lot of interest - especially in Britain for some reason - but no other recorded cases of duck necrophilia. However, Mr Moeliker was informed of an American case involving a squirrel and a dead partner, although in this case it is not known whether the necrophilia observed was homosexual or not as the victim had been run over by a truck shortly before the incident.

[Old Man G Funk]

Ah, the Ig Nobel awards. They rock.

[valve bouncer]

Necrophilia is dead boring.

[fluff]

Necrophilia is dead boring.
Bloody hell VB, that one was old when N8 was a trollette...

[valve bouncer]

Bloody hell VB, that one was old when N8 was a trollette...
Had to do something to help save this clunker of a thread. How about this
"I used to be a necrophiliac until some rotten cunt split on me"
There I've shot my quiver of necrophilia jokes. Happy now?

[LordOpie]

I was into necrophilia, but then I got divorced.

[BurlyShirley]

Isnt that the excuse for homophilia. "The animals do it"

[Old Man G Funk]

Isnt that the excuse for homophilia. "The animals do it"
"Excuse?" No excuse is necessary. It's a natural biological event. Are you aware that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to practice homosexuality as a normal practice?

[ohio]

Are you aware that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to practice homosexuality as a normal practice?
Yeah, but really why should we be taking cues from them? Just because they invented democracy, the republic, western philosophy, the paved road, physics, stadium sports, and culturally sustainable imperialism...

[kinghami3]

"Excuse?" No excuse is necessary. It's a natural biological event. Are you aware that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to practice homosexuality as a normal practice?
...and you don't see very many ancient Greeks or Romans around anymore, do you? ;)

[Old Man G Funk]

...and you don't see very many ancient Greeks or Romans around anymore, do you? ;)
We do see their legacies though.

[BurlyShirley]

We do see their legacies though.
Liberace left a legacy too.

[BurlyShirley]

"Excuse?" No excuse is necessary. It's a natural biological event. Are you aware that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to practice homosexuality as a normal practice?
Apparently so is necrophilia...or did you miss the point of the thread. I demand equal rights for necrophiliacs, henceforth.

[fluff]

Apparently so is necrophilia...or did you miss the point of the thread. I demand equal rights for necrophiliacs, henceforth.
And murderers, cannibals and those who commit incest?

[Old Man G Funk]

Apparently so is necrophilia...or did you miss the point of the thread. I demand equal rights for necrophiliacs, henceforth.
One instance does not make the rule, but the exception.

If you want to dis homosexuals you can, but the current science points to it being a trait that people are born with. So, it's really no different than being racist or sexist.

[fluff]

BTW, there was no point to the thread. How dare you.

[BurlyShirley]

One instance does not make the rule, but the exception.
That 98% of people are not gay also makes being gay an exception.


If you want to dis homosexuals you can, but the current science points to it being a trait that people are born with. So, it's really no different than being racist or sexist.

People are born with all kinds of traits. Some traits make people overweight. Some traits make grown men want to fondle little boys. Some traits are diseases.

[fluff]

That 98% of people are not gay also makes being gay an exception.

Where'd you get that stat?

And technically it makes it a minority, not an exception

[BurlyShirley]

Where'd you get that stat?
Ive seen referances as high as 5% and low as .1% I picked a number that best suited my example.:cool:

[fluff]

Ive seen referances as high as 5% and low as .1% I picked a number that best suited my example.:cool:
Are you busy or just lazy?

[BurlyShirley]

Both really, which sucks.

[BurlyShirley]

I dont think you can find an actual number, so I just took the numbers projected by both sides and averaged it.

[Old Man G Funk]

That 98% of people are not gay also makes being gay an exception.




People are born with all kinds of traits. Some traits make people overweight. Some traits make grown men want to fondle little boys. Some traits are diseases.
Here's a link I found in about 2 seconds.
http://www.avert.org/hsexu1.htm
It should probably be noted that you will always get a lower percentage than the actual until it is acceptable for people to admit to what they are.

But, really, what's your point? Are you trying to say that being gay is a disease?

[BurlyShirley]

I dont want you guys to get me wrong here. Im not saying they should outlaw it, as its a victimless crime (provided we ignore the AIDS rates and dont call it a health issue) , but I find it strange that where someone sticks their **** gives them a political platform. Things like being attracted to the same sex, children, the dead...they're all just misguided attempts at mating in the grand scheme of nature and reproduction.

[BurlyShirley]

Here's a link I found in about 2 seconds.
http://www.avert.org/hsexu1.htm
It should probably be noted that you will always get a lower percentage than the actual until it is acceptable for people to admit to what they are.

But, really, what's your point? Are you trying to say that being gay is a disease?

So I was about right. 2.6% actively live that way.

[Old Man G Funk]

I dont want you guys to get me wrong here. Im not saying they should outlaw it, as its a victimless crime (provided we ignore the AIDS rates and dont call it a health issue) , but I find it strange that where someone sticks their **** gives them a political platform. Things like being attracted to the same sex, children, the dead...they're all just misguided attempts at mating in the grand scheme of nature and reproduction.
Where someone puts their ****? I assume you are speaking about their phallus? Is that what's got your knickers in a twist? Do you have similar problems with two girls getting it on?

Also, we outlaw discrimination against people for other traits they are born with, but we don't outlaw it for being gay. So, there is a political platform here in that we afford equal rights to people, unless you are gay. That's what the political platform is all about.

[Old Man G Funk]

So I was about right. 2.6% actively live that way.
An underrepresented sample gave 2.6%. That still doesn't make your argument correct.

[BurlyShirley]

Where someone puts their ****? I assume you are speaking about their phallus? Is that what's got your knickers in a twist? Do you have similar problems with two girls getting it on?

Also, we outlaw discrimination against people for other traits they are born with, but we don't outlaw it for being gay. So, there is a political platform here in that we afford equal rights to people, unless you are gay. That's what the political platform is all about.

If you could read, you'd see that I have no problem with anyone getting it on.
We dont always outlaw discrimination against people. We dont allow pedophiles to be gradeschool teachers or retards to become airline pilots.

[BurlyShirley]

An underrepresented sample gave 2.6%. That still doesn't make your argument correct.

The best answer you have is .6% away from a guess I made. Id say thats pretty close.

[fluff]

The best answer you have is .6% away from a guess I made. Id say thats pretty close.
The difference is 30% actually.

[fluff]

I dont want you guys to get me wrong here. Im not saying they should outlaw it, as its a victimless crime (provided we ignore the AIDS rates and dont call it a health issue) ,

Crime? What makes you say that.


but I find it strange that where someone sticks their **** gives them a political platform. Things like being attracted to the same sex, children, the dead...they're all just misguided attempts at mating in the grand scheme of nature and reproduction.
But it also gives non-gay people a political platform.

[BurlyShirley]

The difference is 30% actually.
you're lame, and knew exactly what i meant.

[BurlyShirley]

Crime? What makes you say that.


But it also gives non-gay people a political platform.

Just that necros and pedophiles are treated as criminals for the same behavior only guided in a way that involves victims.

[fluff]

you're lame, and knew exactly what i meant.
Well, you're a latent queen and a hypocrite.

[fluff]

Just that necros and pedophiles are treated as criminals for the same behavior only guided in a way that involves victims.
What same behaviour is that?

[BurlyShirley]

Well, you're a latent queen and a hypocrite.
Better latent than blatant I always say.

[BurlyShirley]

What same behaviour is that?
Attempting to mate with something that wont allow it.

[fluff]

Attempting to mate with something that wont allow it.
That would be rape, not homosexuality.

Consensual sex between adults is the same gay or straight, relative to necrophilia or pedophilia.

[BurlyShirley]

That would be rape, not homosexuality.

Consensual sex between adults is the same gay or straight, relative to necrophilia or pedophilia.
By "wont allow" I meant biologically speaking. That is to say, you cannot fertilize a turd or impregnate a dead body.

[fluff]

By "wont allow" I meant biologically speaking. That is to say, you cannot fertilize a turd or impregnate a dead body.
You can't get a woman pregnant by oral sex, anal sex or manual stimulation of the clitoris. At certain times of the month you haven't a hope in hell.

So bioligically....

[Old Man G Funk]

The best answer you have is .6% away from a guess I made. Id say thats pretty close.
Whether it is 2% or 2.6% doesn't make your argument correct is what I meant.

[Old Man G Funk]

You can't get a woman pregnant by oral sex, anal sex or manual stimulation of the clitoris. At certain times of the month you haven't a hope in hell.

So bioligically....
Some men and women are simply unable to reproduce as well.

[BurlyShirley]

You can't get a woman pregnant by oral sex, anal sex or manual stimulation of the clitoris. At certain times of the month you haven't a hope in hell.

So bioligically....

Correct. But there is the argument that these acts promote a stronger hetero mating ritual and therefore promote impregnation. The same cannot be said of homos.

[BurlyShirley]

Some men and women are simply unable to reproduce as well.
These are also exceptions or "minorities"

[Old Man G Funk]

If you could read, you'd see that I have no problem with anyone getting it on.
We dont always outlaw discrimination against people. We dont allow pedophiles to be gradeschool teachers or retards to become airline pilots.
And there's a difference. Pedophilia is defined as a mental disease, not a born trait. Retardation is also a born trait, but it's apples and oranges compared to homosexuality.

[Old Man G Funk]

These are also exceptions or "minorities"
Well, you don't object to two hetero people who can not physically reproduce, and you don't call it a crime, so why do you object homosexual behavior and call it a crime?

Also, I'm still wondering whether you have a problem with lesbians?

[BurlyShirley]

And there's a difference. Pedophilia is defined as a mental disease, not a born trait. Retardation is also a born trait, but it's apples and oranges compared to homosexuality.
These "definitions" are influenced politically and therefore are not relevant. Make no mistake. A homosexual and a pedophile are both trying to mate with an incapable partner.
Retardation is a born trait as you said homosexuality was a few posts ago.

[fluff]

Correct. But there is the argument that these acts promote a stronger hetero mating ritual and therefore promote impregnation. The same cannot be said of homos.
That would be a pretty weak argument. The majority of hetero couples alive today are probably unable to conceive.

[BurlyShirley]

Well, you don't object to two hetero people who can not physically reproduce, and you don't call it a crime, so why do you object homosexual behavior and call it a crime?

Also, I'm still wondering whether you have a problem with lesbians?
Again. Learn to read. Both of these points have been adressed directly.

[fluff]

These "definitions" are influenced politically and therefore are not relevant. Make no mistake. A homosexual and a pedophile are both trying to mate with an incapable partner.
Retardation is a born trait as you said homosexuality was a few posts ago.
There is a huge difference between being unable to repoduce and unable/unwilling to give consent. And you're not that dumb that you cannot see that.

[BurlyShirley]

That would be a pretty weak argument. The majority of hetero couples alive today are probably unable to conceive.
How is that?
If a couple makes a concsious decision to control impregnation, it does not affect their biological instinct to do so.

[BurlyShirley]

There is a huge difference between being unable to repoduce and unable/unwilling to give consent. And you're not that dumb that you cannot see that.

The initial attraction is the key fluff. Pedophiles "love" their incapable partners just as gays do. This is why I referred to it as "victimless" earlier.

[fluff]

How is that?
If a couple makes a concsious decision to control impregnation, it does not affect their biological instinct to do so.
After the menopause conscious decisions are not part of the process...

[BurlyShirley]

After the menopause conscious decisions are not part of the process...

The urge to mate continues after menopause. Biologically you're incapable just as someone who is sterile from birth, but the urge is still there.

[fluff]

The initial attraction is the key fluff. Pedophiles "love" their incapable partners just as gays do. This is why I referred to it as "victimless" earlier.
The difference is that the law is there to protect people too young as to be able to make rational decisions. Once people are of a certain age they can give their consent with knowledge of what it entails.

It's not even close to the same thing.

[fluff]

The urge to mate continues after menopause. Biologically you're incapable just as someone who is sterile from birth, but the urge is still there.
And gay people have an urge too, so your argument is groundless.

[BurlyShirley]

The difference is that the law is there to protect people too young as to be able to make rational decisions. Once people are of a certain age they can give their consent with knowledge of what it entails.

It's not even close to the same thing.

In terms of law and morality you are correct. In terms of biology they are quite similar. You cannot deny that.

[BurlyShirley]

And gay people have an urge too, so your argument is groundless.
You're missing the point. They have a misdirected urge. A flaw if you will in to what direction their urge pushes them.

EDIT: To expound.

Both have the same % of a chance of reproducing...which is what mating is designed for.

[Old Man G Funk]

These "definitions" are influenced politically and therefore are not relevant. Make no mistake. A homosexual and a pedophile are both trying to mate with an incapable partner.
Retardation is a born trait as you said homosexuality was a few posts ago.
If a gene is found that makes a person a homosexual, and we can identify factors that make pedophilia a mental disease, then there is no political influence in the definitions. That's like saying evolution is politically defined to be science.

The problem with your retardation example is that the person is incapable of performing the job. That doesn't mean the person is being discriminated against. However, not giving a pilot's license to someone just because he prefers men is discrimination.

[fluff]

You're missing the point. They have a misdirected urge. A flaw if you will in to what direction their urge pushes them.

EDIT: To expound.

Both have the same % of a chance of reproducing...which is what mating is designed for.
Do you only have sex to reproduce?

[Old Man G Funk]

Again. Learn to read. Both of these points have been adressed directly.
Not to my satisfaction.

You called it a crime, then compared it to pedophilia and necrophilia. Both of those comparisons are found wanting, since both of the examples are mental diseases, not born traits.

Also, you said you have no problem with anyone getting it on, but by calling it a crime, it seems you do. You've also made references that specifically mentioned gay men, but not women. Do you, or do you not have the same problem with gay men that you do with gay women?

[fluff]

In terms of law and morality you are correct. In terms of biology they are quite similar. You cannot deny that.
Eh, for example an adult male and a 13 year girl the same as two adult males? What planet are you on?

[Old Man G Funk]

In terms of law and morality you are correct. In terms of biology they are quite similar. You cannot deny that.
Rubbish.

[fluff]

Rubish.
A drunken Hungarian maths professor with a penchant for regular, six-sided, polyhedra?

[Old Man G Funk]

A drunken Hungarian maths professor with a penchant for regular, six-sided, polyhedra?
Fixed. Thanks.

[Old Man G Funk]

You're missing the point. They have a misdirected urge. A flaw if you will in to what direction their urge pushes them.

EDIT: To expound.

Both have the same % of a chance of reproducing...which is what mating is designed for.
Why misdirected? They are doing what comes natural. Hey, quit being the color that you are, it's misdirected.

[fluff]

Fixed. Thanks.
Don't mentoin it. :)

[BurlyShirley]

If a gene is found that makes a person a homosexual, and we can identify factors that make pedophilia a mental disease, then there is no political influence in the definitions. That's like saying evolution is politically defined to be science.

There is proof of evolution.

There is no proof of a gay gene (I do believe people are born that way in most cases, however) and there is no proof seperating it from pedophilia (which I also believe most people are born with)


The problem with your retardation example is that the person is incapable of performing the job. That doesn't mean the person is being discriminated against. However, not giving a pilot's license to someone just because he prefers men is discrimination.
You really can comprehend simple sh!t, can you? You said we dont discriminate, I said we do and gave examples. The example proves that we do, in fact, discriminate. You havent disproven that. You've just added that example to another part of a debate which isnt anywhere near where I put it. Please try to keep up.

[BurlyShirley]

Why misdirected? They are doing what comes natural. Hey, quit being the color that you are, it's misdirected.

Its misdirected in that its not achieving its intended purpose. You really must have a simple mind.

[N8]

Perhaps this is the only way OMGF can get some..???


:confused:

[BurlyShirley]

Not to my satisfaction.

You called it a crime, then compared it to pedophilia and necrophilia. Both of those comparisons are found wanting, since both of the examples are mental diseases, not born traits.

Also, you said you have no problem with anyone getting it on, but by calling it a crime, it seems you do. You've also made references that specifically mentioned gay men, but not women. Do you, or do you not have the same problem with gay men that you do with gay women?
Again. This has been adressed, directly. Each question. Please learn to read.

[fluff]

Its misdirected in that its not achieving its intended purpose. You really must have a simple mind.
They are enjoying it which is their intended purpose.

What exactly is it that makes you think that sex is only about reproduction?

[fluff]

there is no proof seperating it from pedophilia (which I also believe most people are born with)

In exactly the same way that the is no proof separating pedophilia from heterosexual sex. Or from theft... What are you trying to say, there is no logic to your argument.

[Old Man G Funk]

There is proof of evolution.
Exactly.
There is no proof of a gay gene (I do believe people are born that way in most cases, however) and there is no proof seperating it from pedophilia (which I also believe most people are born with)
The latest scientific findings are that people are born gay, but not born as pedophiles. That's why pedophilia is listed as a mental disease.
You really can comprehend simple sh!t, can you? You said we dont discriminate, I said we do and gave examples. The example proves that we do, in fact, discriminate. You havent disproven that. You've just added that example to another part of a debate which isnt anywhere near where I put it. Please try to keep up.
Personal attacks aside, you can equivocate on the definition of discrimination, but it makes your argument weak.

[BurlyShirley]

They are enjoying it which is their intended purpose.

What exactly is it that makes you think that sex is only about reproduction?

Sex IS about reproduction. That is it. That it helps "BONDING" is only to enforce more reproduction. this is biology 101

[Old Man G Funk]

Its misdirected in that its not achieving its intended purpose. You really must have a simple mind.
Which purpose, procreation? Well, considering that has been answered (in that many people can not procreate) your argument here sucks too.

[fluff]

Sex IS about reproduction. That is it. That it helps "BONDING" is only to enforce more reproduction. this is biology 101
Tell that to your next hooker, maybe she'll give you a discount if you bond well.

How does a one night stand fit in with your life vision?

[Old Man G Funk]

Again. This has been adressed, directly. Each question. Please learn to read.
No, it has not. What exactly about homosexuality constitutes a crime?

Do you or do you not have a difference of opinion when it comes to homosexual men vs. women?

[BurlyShirley]

The latest scientific findings are that people are born gay, but not born as pedophiles. That's why pedophilia is listed as a mental disease.

You make absolutely no sense. Why is it that you think people cannot be born without mental diseases? You simply dont have the slightest understanding of this topoc.


Personal attacks aside, you can equivocate on the definition of discrimination, but it makes your argument weak.
Again, you're so far off base its not even worth arguing over.

[BurlyShirley]

No, it has not. What exactly about homosexuality constitutes a crime?

Do you or do you not have a difference of opinion when it comes to homosexual men vs. women?

This little side argument you're attempting to start isnt worth the time. I wont post it again, so you may as well quit asking.

[Old Man G Funk]

Sex IS about reproduction. That is it. That it helps "BONDING" is only to enforce more reproduction. this is biology 101
What about people that can't reproduce? They still have the urge. Does that "bonding" help them reproduce?

[Old Man G Funk]

So you think homosexuality is a mental disease? Good to know.

[BurlyShirley]

Tell that to your next hooker, maybe she'll give you a discount if you bond well.

How does a one night stand fit in with your life vision?

I know YOU are not this stupid.

A hooker is obviously taking advantage of a mans urge to mate. She menstruates each month as well.
A one night stand ( i never said sex MUST include bonding) is a single mating attempt.

[BurlyShirley]

What about people that can't reproduce? They still have the urge. Does that "bonding" help them reproduce?
This has been explained already. They are attempting to reproduce.

[Old Man G Funk]

This little side argument you're attempting to start isnt worth the time. I wont post it again, so you may as well quit asking.
Post what again? Pedophilia is a crime because of the underage person who can not consent. How is homosexuality a crime? What makes it a crime? Is it a crime because they can't reproduce? Then why don't we lock up married people that can't reproduce? Your bigotry is truly disgusting.

[Old Man G Funk]

This has been explained already. They are attempting to reproduce.
Many people take birth control....They are attempting to NOT reproduce. Do you think hookers are trying to get preggers? Lame.

[BurlyShirley]

Post what again? Pedophilia is a crime because of the underage person who can not consent. How is homosexuality a crime? What makes it a crime? Is it a crime because they can't reproduce? Then why don't we lock up married people that can't reproduce? Your bigotry is truly disgusting.

your lack of an actual argument isnt supported any by this red herring.

[BurlyShirley]

Many people take birth control....They are attempting to NOT reproduce. Do you think hookers are trying to get preggers? Lame.
Adressed already as well. Please learn to read.

[fluff]

I know YOU are not this stupid.

A hooker is obviously taking advantage of a mans urge to mate. She menstruates each month as well.
A one night stand ( i never said sex MUST include bonding) is a single mating attempt.
I know no one, male or female, who had a one night stand in an effort to reproduce.

Why do you think sex must only be about reproduction, are all your thoughts driven by instinct? Why do you ride a mountain bike?

[Old Man G Funk]

your lack of an actual argument isnt supported any by this red herring.
MY LACK OF AN ARGUMENT? In the immortal words of a tennis great, "You can't be serious!" You are the one who started it. You are the one who called it a crime. You are the one who has yet to back it up. It is not MY red herring. You started this line of questioning and now it is you who can't back it up.

[Old Man G Funk]

Adressed already as well. Please learn to read.
And please learn to actually make statements that are supportive of a logical position (which you don't currently hold.)

[Old Man G Funk]

And, Burly, knock off the personal attacks. So far, I have been very patient with you, not just in this thread but in others as well. You have simply tried to bully your way through every discussion with personal attacks and logical fallacies.

[Old Man G Funk]

I know YOU are not this stupid.

A hooker is obviously taking advantage of a mans urge to mate. She menstruates each month as well.
A one night stand ( i never said sex MUST include bonding) is a single mating attempt.
I suppose this is what you meant by my question being addressed. Of course, what you are saying here is that only men have the urge to mate, and women are able to take advantage of it. Sounds like islamic thought to me.

[BurlyShirley]

I know no one, male or female, who had a one night stand in an effort to reproduce.

Why do you think sex must only be about reproduction, are all your thoughts driven by instinct? Why do you ride a mountain bike?
Actually, EVERYONE you know who had a one night stand was trying to reproduce, biologically speaking. Thats where the urge comes from.

Reproduction is the reason for sex. The pleasure derived from it serves as a further incentive. I dont know what other "reasons" youre speaking of.

MOST things people do are driven by instinct. Advances in other areas, ie, music, laughter, art, mountain biking are anomolies in the natural world. With the evolution of the cerebral cortex (i think) we were able to undertake these things. They do nothing to make mating more effective, and in fact, work against it (ie birth controls, abortion) I dont see anyway that mating is related, tho.

[BurlyShirley]

I suppose this is what you meant by my question being addressed. Of course, what you are saying here is that only men have the urge to mate, and women are able to take advantage of it. Sounds like islamic thought to me.
Wow. Talk about out of left field. These are very simple concepts funk. It is the same with women as with men. When she has sex, biologically, she is attempting to become pregnant.

[BurlyShirley]

And, Burly, knock off the personal attacks. So far, I have been very patient with you, not just in this thread but in others as well. You have simply tried to bully your way through every discussion with personal attacks and logical fallacies.
I could care less if you are patient or not. You simply arent adding anything but crap to this thread and miss the point of every post. I could care less if you think Im a bully or if you think my logic is flawed. If you dont want to be part of the debate, dont. Or deal with it how it is.

[fluff]

Actually, EVERYONE you know who had a one night stand was trying to reproduce, biologically speaking. Thats where the urge comes from.

Reproduction is the reason for sex. The pleasure derived from it serves as a further incentive. I dont know what other "reasons" youre speaking of.

MOST things people do are driven by instinct. Advances in other areas, ie, music, laughter, art, mountain biking are anomolies in the natural world. With the evolution of the cerebral cortex (i think) we were able to undertake these things. They do nothing to make mating more effective, and in fact, work against it (ie birth controls, abortion) I dont see anyway that mating is related, tho.
It's strange that you can see anomolies in other areas of life, drinking alcohol must be one as it is a poison, eating fatty foods another. Any form of thrill-seeking activity, even just travelling faster than running pace. All of these must be anomolies, in fact in almost every area of life we go beyond the biologically necessary, often because it is fun. Yet you think we are so primitive that the only reason for sex is to reproduce?

That is simply not logical.

[fluff]

Wow. Talk about out of left field. These are very simple concepts funk. It is the same with women as with men. When she has sex, biologically, she is attempting to become pregnant.
****, I must reverse that vasectomy before the chicks quit wanting to have sex with me...

[BurlyShirley]

It's strange that you can see anomolies in other areas of life, drinking alcohol must be one as it is a poison, eating fatty foods another. Any form of thrill-seeking activity, even just travelling faster than running pace. All of these must be anomolies, in fact in almost every area of life we go beyond the biologically necessary, often because it is fun. Yet you think we are so primitive that the only reason for sex is to reproduce?

That is simply not logical.

Let me make this real simple for you.
When you eat...what are your intestines for?
When you ****, what are your sperms for?

These are simple, biological FACTS. It is not illogical to look at a basic human function for what it is.
A penis and a vagina are very specific things that react much the same throughout nature.

[BurlyShirley]

****, I must reverse that vasectomy before the chicks quit wanting to have sex with me...
It really is not that difficult a concept to seperate biological function from "rational" thought, is it?

[fluff]

Let me make this real simple for you.
When you eat...what are your intestines for?
When you ****, what are your sperms for?

These are simple, biological FACTS. It is not illogical to look at a basic human function for what it is.
A penis and a vagina are very specific things that react much the same throughout nature.

When I **** my sperms do nothing... did you not read my earlier post. As for intestines go, I have no control over what they do, other parts of my body however, are at my command:

What's my mouth for? Eating, drinking, speaking, laughing, giving my woman pleasure...

What's my dick for? Urinating, masturbating, hunting (makes a great club :) ),screwing, giving my woman pleasure...

I could go on.

Why restrict yourself, open yourself up to the full possibilities of life.

[fluff]

It really is not that difficult a concept to seperate biological function from "rational" thought, is it?
You seem unable to.

[BurlyShirley]

You seem unable to.
last word.

[BurlyShirley]

When I **** my sperms do nothing... did you not read my earlier post. As for intestines go, I have no control over what they do, other parts of my body however, are at my command:

What's my mouth for? Eating, drinking, speaking, laughing, giving my woman pleasure...

What's my dick for? Urinating, masturbating, hunting (makes a great club :) ),screwing, giving my woman pleasure...

I could go on.

Why restrict yourself, open yourself up to the full possibilities of life.

Again, you're missing out on a very simple concept. Good luck in the future with that.

[valve bouncer]

Shirley, I see your point from a biological point of view. I don't really see where you're going with it but anyway. So my question, what is the purpose of homosexuality from a biological point of view? Please don't say there's no point as that's a cop out. There must be someway, biologically speaking, to explain homosexuality.

[narlus]

the fabulous shoes.

[kidwoo]

Shirley, I see your point from a biological point of view. I don't really see where you're going with it but anyway. So my question, what is the purpose of homosexuality from a biological point of view? Please don't say there's no point as that's a cop out. There must be someway, biologically speaking, to explain homosexuality.

Traffic reduction and halting of the cancer that is tract/spec housing.

Me maxed out so now we have to be fabulous.

[Transcend]

That 98% of people are not gay also makes being gay an exception.

and your insufferable whining about it makes you a homophobic reject. What's your point? :rolleyes:

[BurlyShirley]

Shirley, I see your point from a biological point of view. I don't really see where you're going with it but anyway. So my question, what is the purpose of homosexuality from a biological point of view? Please don't say there's no point as that's a cop out. There must be someway, biologically speaking, to explain homosexuality.
Defect.
Simply put.
If we look at evolution, homosexuality is about as counterproductive as possible. It serves the same purpose as mental retardation or siamese twins.

[BurlyShirley]

and your insufferable whining about it makes you a homophobic reject. What's your point? :rolleyes:

...and again you join a thread and add nothing.

[BurlyShirley]

Traffic reduction and halting of the cancer that is tract/spec housing.

Me maxed out so now we have to be fabulous.
There could be something to that theory, but I dont exactly know how a species could self regulate over multiple organisms. I mean, I dont understand how our DNA could sense that the world is getting too crowded when by and large people are doing better and better worlwide. Less starving, longer lives, etc.

[valve bouncer]

Defect.
Simply put.
If we look at evolution, homosexuality is about as counterproductive as possible. It serves the same purpose as mental retardation or siamese twins.
So there's nothing inherently wrong with it then. It can't be helped. Natural if you will.

[BurlyShirley]

So there's nothing inherently wrong with it then. It can't be helped. Natural if you will.
Well it depends on the viewpoint. Biologically speaking, it's more wrong than pedophilia because its less likely to result in reproduction. As a health issue, it is a dangerous lifestyle. To put a label of "natural" on something is the same as giving it no title at all because everything that has ever happened is natural. Even the most toxic, nuclear waste is a result of humans making use of a natural environment. Can it be helped? How do you mean? Eradicated? Sure, if you could abort gay babies before they were born, provided there IS a gay gene.
Im not saying Id condone such a thing, however.

[Changleen]

Defect.
Simply put.
If we look at evolution, homosexuality is about as counterproductive as possible. It serves the same purpose as mental retardation or siamese twins.There are too many people on the planet to be sustained. Surely evolution is quite correct in limiting reproduction by inventing teh ghey?

Maybe gays are more evolutionarily advanced than you?

[BurlyShirley]

There are too many people on the planet to be sustained. Surely evolution is quite correct in limiting reproduction by inventing teh ghey?

Maybe gays are more evolutionarily advanced than you?
Like I said, there could be something to that theory, but I just dont see how it could work.

[Transcend]

...and again you join a thread and add nothing.

just imagine how many people say something similiar everytime you open your mouth!

I gotta pick up your redneck slack from time to time.:thumb:

[Silver]

Shirley, I see your point from a biological point of view. I don't really see where you're going with it but anyway. So my question, what is the purpose of homosexuality from a biological point of view? Please don't say there's no point as that's a cop out. There must be someway, biologically speaking, to explain homosexuality.

Here's a theory:

If you're able to help provide for your family unit without having to invest time in your own children, you can ensure that more of your genes make it through to the next round.

After all, from a genetic standpoint, your siblings are just as valuable as your children.

[ALEXIS_DH]

Like I said, there could be something to that theory, but I just dont see how it could work.

the gays are the lions of this savannah..... we need a few more to keep the hetero gazelle numbers in check...

[kidwoo]

There could be something to that theory, but I dont exactly know how a species could self regulate over multiple organisms. I mean, I dont understand how our DNA could sense that the world is getting too crowded when by and large people are doing better and better worlwide. Less starving, longer lives, etc.

DNA can't "sense" doodly squat. Small variations find favor in the environment once expressed.

Gay happens. It needs no explanation. I seriously doubt there's any larger percentage now than there's ever been of teh fay so thinking of it in evolutionary terms as far as "purpose" goes nowhere. Will and grace and hate laws just bring the issue out of the dark ages. Men in carharts build houses. Men in sensible shoes need to decorate them to keep the employing couple happy so that they conduct the appropriate boot knockin.

Either way, you still come accross as a homophobic redneck trying to justify your bigotry under some sort of guise of logic. "Product of your environment" or "Living cliche" are terms you might want to watch out for. I personally left the south for a reason. From where I sit these days, it seems your breed is approaching extinction. Embrace your manlove won't you?

[fluff]

Again, you're missing out on a very simple concept. Good luck in the future with that.
So your simple concept appears to be:

Heterosexuality is good, homosexuality is bad, sex is all about reproduction.

That's actually more complex than it needs to be (as well as wrong). Let me simplify it for you:

Heterosexuality is, homosexuality is, sex is all about.

You can basically take it down to this:

Sex is.

Now that is simple.

[fluff]

Defect.
Simply put.
If we look at evolution, homosexuality is about as counterproductive as possible. It serves the same purpose as mental retardation or siamese twins.

Do you understand the theory of evolution at all? Or are you a secret adherent of the ID philosophy?

Evolution is due to random genetic mutation and natural selection. Therefore that fact that sex is enjoyable not due to design any more than the fact that your finger fits up your nose. Reproduction is essential for the continued existence of the species, mutations that reproduce more effectively will dominate. That biological drive to reproduce that you believe in is a myth, the drive a man has when he sees a beautiful woman is not to reproduce with her, it is to have sex with her; sex is enjoyable, having a million screaming brats around you is not. That sex is enjoyable leads us to more sex which eventually leads to reproduction which leads to those members of the species that enjoy sex predominating.

So the evolutionary process is to do with a mutuation provided more nerve endings and pleasure, with enhanced reproductive output an effect not a cause that leads to more offspring that enjoy sex, etc. Those mutations that do not enjoy sex will reproduce less and eventually die out.

Further evidence that the enjoyment of sex is not to do with a reproductive drive is masturbation. According to your view of biology it serves no purpose and is wrong. So every man on the planet (and probably most women though I have less personal experience of being a woman) is just as evil as those terrible gays. The reason people masturbate is because it is enjoyable, the reason people have sex is because it is enjoyable. The reason people have kids is because they are stupid.

Start believing in God, it'll simplify your belief system.

[fluff]

Well it depends on the viewpoint. Biologically speaking, it's more wrong than pedophilia because its less likely to result in reproduction. As a health issue, it is a dangerous lifestyle. To put a label of "natural" on something is the same as giving it no title at all because everything that has ever happened is natural. Even the most toxic, nuclear waste is a result of humans making use of a natural environment. Can it be helped? How do you mean? Eradicated? Sure, if you could abort gay babies before they were born, provided there IS a gay gene.
Im not saying Id condone such a thing, however.
There are plenty of people who engage in sex with both genders (generally known as bisexual). They are as reproductive as heterosexual people so your argument about reproduction is false. AIDS is now being spread in Africa most extensively by heterosexual sex, so your health argument is false (promiscuous sex is dangerous, gay or straight).

And as we have seen above, your evolution argument is false.

So you are left with only prejudice.

[BurlyShirley]

That biological drive to reproduce that you believe in is a myth, the drive a man has when he sees a beautiful woman is not to reproduce with her, it is to have sex with her;
your lack of understanding here is profound. You simply cannot grasp the concept of instinct.



Further evidence that the enjoyment of sex is not to do with a reproductive drive is masturbation. According to your view of biology it serves no purpose and is wrong.

Again you prove you have no understanding of the human process. Masturbation is necessary for a few purposes, but most notably as a "use it or lose it" function. To ensure that the production of the reproductive organs continue to produce sperm when it comes time to mate.

So every man on the planet (and probably most women though I have less personal experience of being a woman) is just as evil as those terrible gays. The reason people masturbate is because it is enjoyable, the reason people have sex is because it is enjoyable. The reason people have kids is because they are stupid.

No one said anything about evil or terrible. I can see that since your argument floundered long ago, you're trying to turn this into a debate of hate vs. simple science. I only have the beliefs I do because Ive been shown the proof through education.

Start believing in God, it'll simplify your belief system. I think Ive broken it down pretty simply for you, actually. I dont know how to make it any easier.

[BurlyShirley]

There are plenty of people who engage in sex with both genders (generally known as bisexual). They are as reproductive as heterosexual people so your argument about reproduction is false. AIDS is now being spread in Africa most extensively by heterosexual sex, so your health argument is false (promiscuous sex is dangerous, gay or straight).

And as we have seen above, your evolution argument is false.

So you are left with only prejudice.
Again you're trying to resort to the hate.

Look up the stats. If a gay male and straight female both have sex with an HIV positive gay male, the other gay is at a substancially higher risk than the female.
Look at an area where AIDS rates are not so high (such as the UK or US) and see what the numbers say.

[BurlyShirley]

DNA can't "sense" doodly squat. Small variations find favor in the environment once expressed.

Gay happens. It needs no explanation. I seriously doubt there's any larger percentage now than there's ever been of teh fay so thinking of it in evolutionary terms as far as "purpose" goes nowhere.


Why does it not need explanation? Is that not the point of science to begin with?

[fluff]

Shirley.

Please explain the scientific basis of your comments about instinct.

Check out the spread of AIDS in Africa.

You mentioned crime, crime is associated with bad things. Quit wriggling and start explaining.

Quit the insults, so far you have produced nothing logical yet you try and deride others' lack of understanding.

[fluff]

Shirley, I'll ask the questions one at a time:

Do you believe in evolution as the origin of species?

[fluff]

Again you're trying to resort to the hate.

Look up the stats. If a gay male and straight female both have sex with an HIV positive gay male, the other gay is at a substancially higher risk than the female.
Look at an area where AIDS rates are not so high (such as the UK or US) and see what the numbers say.
Hate? What hate? Does prejudice equate to hate for you?

We all have prejudices, just some more than others. The important thing is to recognise them.

[Old Man G Funk]

Shirley.

Please explain the scientific basis of your comments about instinct.

Check out the spread of AIDS in Africa.

You mentioned crime, crime is associated with bad things. Quit wriggling and start explaining.

Quit the insults, so far you have produced nothing logical yet you try and deride others' lack of understanding.
Can't you read? He already answered all those things. It's so simple, geez!:rolleyes:

[Old Man G Funk]

Why does it not need explanation? Is that not the point of science to begin with?
OK, Mr. Science, the current explanation is that it is as natural as any other phenomena, like hair color for instance. Get over it you bigot.

[Old Man G Funk]

Again you're trying to resort to the hate.

Look up the stats. If a gay male and straight female both have sex with an HIV positive gay male, the other gay is at a substancially higher risk than the female.
Look at an area where AIDS rates are not so high (such as the UK or US) and see what the numbers say.
So, your argument now is that a virus that has evolved itself to be able to spread more easily in certain environments (and let me point out that once again you are focusing on male homosexuals) somehow makes gays bad. Red herring.

[Old Man G Funk]

your lack of understanding here is profound. You simply cannot grasp the concept of instinct.
You should be the expert, because your whole entire "argument" (if you can call it that) is predicated on your insistence that instinct trumps all. That might be true for you, but most of us aren't troglodytes.
No one said anything about evil or terrible. I can see that since your argument floundered long ago, you're trying to turn this into a debate of hate vs. simple science. I only have the beliefs I do because Ive been shown the proof through education.
You said it was a crime. Show me the proof that being a homosexual is a crime. You claim to have it, so where is it? Put up or shut up.
I think Ive broken it down pretty simply for you, actually. I dont know how to make it any easier.
Answer our questions.

[N8]

Necrophilia is natural, how else could I get laid?




:agree:

[Old Man G Funk]

Well it depends on the viewpoint. Biologically speaking, it's more wrong than pedophilia because its less likely to result in reproduction.
And your viewpoint is bigoted and wholly non-reality based. If you want to think that humans are strictly slaves to our biological wants and needs, you can, but you would be stupid to do so. When you see a pretty woman on the street, do you jump on her? Why would people use contraceptives? Isn't the biological imperative to reproduce hampered by that? And, I could go on, but I don't want to make you look any more stupid.
As a health issue, it is a dangerous lifestyle.
Mostly because the homophobic leaders of our country (Reagan for one) ignored the problem for so long.
To put a label of "natural" on something is the same as giving it no title at all because everything that has ever happened is natural.
"Natural" in this respect means not everything that has happened or could possibly happen, but that which continues to perpetuate. There have been gays all throughout history, and the trend continues today.

[Old Man G Funk]

:agree:
Hey man, I take it any way I can get it.

[Old Man G Funk]

...and again you join a thread and add nothing.
Actually, Transcend asked you a question and you dodged it. It is you who added nothing to the discussion.

[Old Man G Funk]

Defect.
Simply put.
If we look at evolution, homosexuality is about as counterproductive as possible. It serves the same purpose as mental retardation or siamese twins.
Idiot.

Everything that makes us human could be described as a defect.

[Old Man G Funk]

I could care less if you are patient or not. You simply arent adding anything but crap to this thread and miss the point of every post. I could care less if you think Im a bully or if you think my logic is flawed. If you dont want to be part of the debate, dont. Or deal with it how it is.
I'm back now, and I find all of your idiocy spread over this thread like manure, and it smells about the same. I have been patient with your personal attacks, but no more.

I'm not the only one missing your point, as you would be able to tell if YOU could read. Of course, it's hard to find a point when you can't actually articulate what it is. You are a simplistic buffoon.

[kidwoo]

Why does it not need explanation? Is that not the point of science to begin with?

Well the explanation is actually pretty simple. There was all this ecstasy lying around which pushed some good brain buttons, but we were just so darn antsy. We needed some groove. Along came the boys with their house music and voila, boogie progression. N7 also needed someone to design his shirts.

[BurlyShirley]

You are a simplistic buffoon.
That's fine in this case because its a very simple concept to grasp. That you're avoiding what you know to be true and what Ive laid out in as simple of terms as possible shows that you're not willing to accept fact if it does not agree with your agenda. You blast republicans/christians (niether of which am I) for the same thing all the time. Its pathetic really and any objective observer of this debate can clearly see my point is valid. You can continue to deny it or keep attempting your little hate tangents, but it doesnt change any of the facts Ive laid out.

Do you think Im supposed to care that you're not patient? You havent open to a new thought yet, who gives a **** what you think? You havent made a valid point yet and either are too stupid to grasp simple biology, or simply refuse to because of your own little values. Boo hoo. I dont care.

[fluff]

That's fine in this case because its a very simple concept to grasp. That you're avoiding what you know to be true and what Ive laid out in as simple of terms as possible shows that you're not willing to accept fact if it does not agree with your agenda. You blast republicans/christians (niether of which am I) for the same thing all the time. Its pathetic really and any objective observer of this debate can clearly see my point is valid. You can continue to deny it or keep attempting your little hate tangents, but it doesnt change any of the facts Ive laid out.

Do you think Im supposed to care that you're not patient? You havent open to a new thought yet, who gives a **** what you think? You havent made a valid point yet and either are too stupid to grasp simple biology, or simply refuse to because of your own little values. Boo hoo. I dont care.

How many people do you think you have got your 'point' across to in this thread?

[Old Man G Funk]

That's fine in this case because its a very simple concept to grasp. That you're avoiding what you know to be true and what Ive laid out in as simple of terms as possible shows that you're not willing to accept fact if it does not agree with your agenda. You blast republicans/christians (niether of which am I) for the same thing all the time. Its pathetic really and any objective observer of this debate can clearly see my point is valid. You can continue to deny it or keep attempting your little hate tangents, but it doesnt change any of the facts Ive laid out.

Do you think Im supposed to care that you're not patient? You havent open to a new thought yet, who gives a **** what you think? You havent made a valid point yet and either are too stupid to grasp simple biology, or simply refuse to because of your own little values. Boo hoo. I dont care.
No, it is you who doesn't grasp biology.

Your assertion is that we are ruled by instinct, yet you can't back that assertion up. You assert that homosexuality is some sort of crime because two homosexuals can not reproduce, but neither can many people and you don't call that a crime.

You are also trying to couple sexual stimulation to reproduction. While it is true that sexual stimulation probably evolved as a way to entice reproduction, it doesn't mean that they necessarily remain wholly dependent on each other. By your logic, thumbs evolved as a way to grasp things, so if I use my thumb for anything else (giving a thumbs up or down) then I am not using my thumb for its intended purpose, and therefore am acting in a criminal fashion (biologically speaking of course.) You also fail to note that animals go into heat and are generally not receptive to sexual advances when not in heat. Although it is true that many women experience increased sexual arousal during ovulation, humans are generally up for sex at any time.

Edit: I should have said that sexual stimulation was a mutation (or series of mutations) that was naturally selected and therefore passed on to subsequent generations.

[fluff]

Nothing evolves for a purpose, mutations are not driven. Mutations that enjoy sex have an advantage because they will reproduce more quickly. Nothing about us has an 'intended' purpose.

There is no design.

[Old Man G Funk]

Nothing evolves for a purpose, mutations are not driven. Mutations that enjoy sex have an advantage because they will reproduce more quickly. Nothing about us has an 'intended' purpose.

There is no design.
You are right of course, and I did not mean to imply that sexual stimulation evolved with the intended purpose of doing anything. That was sloppy verbiage on my part.

[fluff]

Had to do something to help save this clunker of a thread. How about this
"I used to be a necrophiliac until some rotten cunt split on me"
There I've shot my quiver of necrophilia jokes. Happy now?
That was better - clunker of a thread, eh?

[BurlyShirley]

You two are just too stupid. Discussion over. I win. Thanks for playing.

[fluff]

You two are just too stupid. Discussion over. I win. Thanks for playing.
Nope - that qualifies as a definite flounce, which is a clear indication of your inability to debate.

You lose!

Come back anytime...

[Old Man G Funk]

You two are just too stupid. Discussion over. I win. Thanks for playing.
Us two and all the other people on this thread that disagreed with you I assume?

The fact that you can't even answer a simple question about your position speaks volumes.

[valve bouncer]

That was better - clunker of a thread, eh?
You're welcome. I saved this thread from the wasteland of page 2.

[MikeD]

Again you're trying to resort to the hate.

Look up the stats. If a gay male and straight female both have sex with an HIV positive gay male, the other gay is at a substancially higher risk than the female.


Well, unless the dude's a real stud and she asks for it in the can... The risk of transmission is an anal thing, which also limits reproduction.

I just don't get where a perceived biological efficiency starts to amount to a normative/moral 'right' or 'wrong.'

I say 'perceived' because most people's view of evolution is, to me, screwed up. What survives, passes on its traits. That's really it. Anything else, such as 'survival of the fittest,' is our own mental construct. There's no right or wrong or progress or regression grand design in it from a biological perspective. There's only survival.

(Now, you can see some societal values as an outgrowth of what helped us survive as a species, now civilization, but we're not prisoner to keeping societal values entirely static simply because of biology.)

I guess we can try and encapsulate what has managed to happen biologically under the umbrella 'natural selection' for our own convenience, but the term is abused in the way we now think of it as an almost theistic process, in which there's a judging of fitness in the act of passing on the genes. "Fitness," which is only a result of our perception, is self-defined as "having been able and/or simply lucky enough to pass on genetic material to progeny."

The danger, to me, is when biology takes on a theistic role...this happens when religious freaks feel threatened by biology and science, and when atheistic scientist-types feel the need to enslave themselves to a concept and labor underneath it as if it were a monotheism in and of itself. Science does good things (and bad things) for us...it's a tool, and a damned useful one, not a form of spirituality.

Oh, and as for accounting for where homosexuality serves, biologically, who cares? It's an interesting project for biologists and geneticists, and I'd like to see real science on it, but as Fluff put it, it's there, period, and we're neither agents of God nor Darwin here to stomp out the irregularities, rarities, or differences.


MD

[Transcend]

The danger, to me, is when biology takes on a theistic role...this happens when religious freaks feel threatened by biology and scienc

Or when homophobes feel the need to voice their ignorance.

[MMike]

Or when homophobes feel the need to voice their ignorance.

you're a homophobophobe

[MikeD]

There are some strict scientists who find it reprehensible that our society doesn't acknowledge the inherent biological efficiency in mating girls with mature males as soon as they're biologically able to bear children.

I think many of these concerned scientists have second jobs in the music video industry.

[Changleen]

That's what I love about these high school girls - I keep getting older, they stay the same age.

[fluff]

That's what I love about these high school girls - I keep getting older, they stay the same age.
This post bothers me - what did you mean?

[Transcend]

That's what I love about these high school girls - I keep getting older, they stay the same age.

Best
movie
EVER

[Changleen]

Best
movie
EVERIt is indeed an awesome movie.

I like: "Uh, I'll pay you on Tuesday and sh1t."

[fluff]

OK, what movie?

[Transcend]

It is indeed an awesome movie.

I like: "Uh, I'll pay you on Tuesday and sh1t."


Aerosmith tickets!

[Changleen]

You love us, Smile!

[DRB]

OK, what movie?

Dazed and Confused.

[stevew]

It is indeed an awesome movie.

I like: "Uh, I'll pay you on Tuesday and sh1t."

TONY
Oh Mike I forgot to tell you about this dream I had last night.
MIKE
Oh yeah, why's that?
TONY
But, you've got to promise not to tell anyone okay?
MIKE
Yeah, sure.
TONY
No say "I promise".
MIKE
Oh Jesus. I promise not to tell anyone.
TONY
Okay, thank you.
MIKE
Welcome.
They stop walking.
TONY
Well, okay, there I am, you know, and I'm getting it on, you know, with what has this perfect female body.
MIKE
Uh-huh.
TONY
But...
MIKE
What? What, what?
TONY
I can't say.
MIKE
Come on man, you can't give a build up like that and not deliver. Right. Come on, a perfect female body. It's not a bad start.
TONY
But the head of Abraham Lincoln.
MIKE
Ah.
TONY
I mean the hat and the beard. Oh well, let's not think too deeply on this one right?
MIKE
Best not.

Yes. Thes best movie.